Need help at level 3-5

[sikyon]

Alirght.

I need to overpower the rest of my group at level 3-5, where I'll be joining in. I need the most powerful class that's not explotitive, like pun pun or diplomancer or nanomachine guy or whatever. Core only, unless there is something massivly powerful.

The catch is, I'd like the class to be powerful at higher levels, say 20 as well.

Thoughts?

(P.S. We're not serious rpg'res and are doing this for craps and giggles mostly, so go nuts).

[vivi]

I recommend Ranger, but it isn't overpowered, just good.
Edit:(core only, Right?)

[Azerian Kelimon]

Nah, it's actually really crappy, ESPECIALLY in core.


Easy overpower? Bard, pump fascinate sky high, killalot.

[ocato]

Druid, augment summoning and then natural spell at L6.

That's about it.

[sikyon]

Hmm... I was thinking druid. I wanted him to be good in PvP though. So duels with, say, a barbarian lizardmen that rolled very, very high.

[BardicDuelist]

Wizard. If you don't know why, stay on the forum for about 10 more min.

Or you could go here.

[ocato]

Do you mean Lizardfolk? Because in that case he's doing good if he has 20 STR, but he's looking at 2 racial hit die and 1 LA, so he's at best a L2 Barbarian. The +5 Natural Armor is going to cause a little trouble but you can summon a wad of creatures (with +4 str and con from augment summoning), throw your animal companion at the guy, and then stand back and throw delightful non-attack roll spells at the guy. I think that a summong black bear or crocodile and your animal companion flanking/tripping the guy (since his BaB will be weakened by Racial Hit die and LA) will make it hard for him to do much but suck it and die. Especially since you can presumably make up for his Lizardfolk strengths with prebuffing.

[sikyon]

Do you mean Lizardfolk? Because in that case he's doing good if he has 20 STR, but he's looking at 2 racial hit die and 1 LA, so he's at best a L2 Barbarian. The +5 Natural Armor is going to cause a little trouble but you can summon a wad of creatures (with +4 str and con from augment summoning), throw your animal companion at the guy, and then stand back and throw delightful non-attack roll spells at the guy. I think that a summong black bear or crocodile and your animal companion flanking/tripping the guy (since his BaB will be weakened by Racial Hit die and LA) will make it hard for him to do much but suck it and die. Especially since you can presumably make up for his Lizardfolk strengths with prebuffing.

We're cutting out his racial hit die, since LA is weak enough already. So no bonus HP but no adjustment either.

Wizard. If you don't know why, stay on the forum for about 10 more min.

Or you could go here.

Wizard isn't god at lvl 4 yet.


Edit: Also, how would you suggest I manage my spells (ie what summons/how to use them) and my animal companion against the other player?

[ocato]

Wow, he gets +2 STR, +2 CON, and +5 Natural armor for +1 LA? That's awful nice.

[Draz74]

Wizard isn't god at lvl 4 yet.

True ... but consider:

Alter Self. Get wings. Fly. Barbarian can't hit you with melee attacks.
Cast Sleep repeatedly at him.
As soon as he fails a Will save, he is ready for you to do a coup-de-grace with a scythe.

The only reason the Wizard isn't God yet is because he doesn't have a whole lot of spell slots. Already nothing is lacking in the quality of his spells, though, especially vs. a 3 Hit Dice foe (like a fellow party member with +1 LA).

... all that being said, though, Druid is even more powerful at this level. With a couple buff spells on it, your animal companion might be able to beat the Lizardfolk Barbarian without the Druid himself even having to do anything.

[OneWinged4ngel]

Wizard isn't god at lvl 4 yet.

...Without any ridiculous cheese, no one is god at level 4. And you said no ridiculous cheese.

However, if I was allowed to use what I would personally define as cheese, I could demonstrate that yes, the wizard CAN be god at level 4.

[bugsysservant]

Well, if lizard folk is +1 with no racial hit dice...

How about Feral Mineral Warrior Lizard folk Barbarian? That's what, +8 Str. and Con. DR 8/adamantine and a whole bunch of natural armor? It isn't core, but you said if it was massively powerful...

Or wizard is always good. But I prefer cleric at low levels. Take human cleric with preparation domain and start DMM persisting spells (at level one!) again, not core, but you can't beat a dmm persisted halt command.

But for core, go druid. They really aren't weak at any level.

[Fishy]

Level 3-5 is the one where you fight Bowser in the water castle, right? :P

Cleric and Druid are traditionally the most 'overpowered' classes, until the Wizard turns into Batman and wins everything. At level 4, and if you're not expecting a long game, it's still feasible to play as a melee-ish class. Rangers can do an impressive amount of damage on a full attack, Barbarians/Fighters/Paladins get respectable Power Attacks, and magic armor isn't quite good enough for the Monk to suck yet. Go wild.

[sikyon]

True ... but consider:

Alter Self. Get wings. Fly. Barbarian can't hit you with melee attacks.
Cast Sleep repeatedly at him.
As soon as he fails a Will save, he is ready for you to do a coup-de-grace with a scythe.

The only reason the Wizard isn't God yet is because he doesn't have a whole lot of spell slots. Already nothing is lacking in the quality of his spells, though, especially vs. a 3 Hit Dice foe (like a fellow party member with +1 LA).

... all that being said, though, Druid is even more powerful at this level. With a couple buff spells on it, your animal companion might be able to beat the Lizardfolk Barbarian without the Druid himself even having to do anything.

He's going to have a bow, and I think he has max points in str, dex, con, and at least a 16 in wis. (he plans to multiclass to druid later (don't ask me how/why wtf)). See, I'm afraid that his will save will be rather... high... with the high wisdom and whatnot.

[mostlyharmful]

He's going to have a bow, and I think he has max points in str, dex, con, and at least a 16 in wis. (he plans to multiclass to druid later (don't ask me how/why wtf)). See, I'm afraid that his will save will be rather... high... with the high wisdom and whatnot.

What he can't find he can't hit. Use invis to get away and give yourself time to buff before spamming him with save or sucks, so long as you have WBL and a decent save DC you can smack him about in a one off with warning.

So use ray of Exhausion from a scroll after hitting him with a ray of Enfeeblement. after getting out of his way with a mobility (levitate, alterself, etc..) then mirror image and mage armour and bulls strengh. Then go beat the hell out of him in Melee. that ought to show him who's not that tough at low levels. going nova can be done from a ridiculously low level with a Wiz.

a Cleric or Druid will own his ass, almost without trying. essecially by level 5 with 3rd level spells and wild shape.

[Ashdate]

Wizard 4 sounds fine.

Alter Self to give yourself wings, and then cast Shatter when he pulls out his bow, assuming that if he has a magical weapon it'll be his sword.

Then sleep him to death. His will save will be what, +6 or so at most? If you have a 16 int, sleep being level one, that's a DC fo 14? He'd need an 8 or better, and he'll fail it EVENTUALLY. You can even be a Grey Elf for a free +2 int. Spell focus can raise your DC too.

- Eddie

[sikyon]

I'm going to go druid, I've decided (it was my original choice anyways).

However, out of curiosity, what do I do after I sleep him as a wizard? A coup de grace with a scythe (20 damage) won't kill a level 3 fighter with 18 con on average. He would then wake up and maul me. I'd also have to cast fly through a scroll (not THAT big a deal, but still annoying).

[goat]

I'm going to go druid, I've decided (it was my original choice anyways).

However, out of curiosity, what do I do after I sleep him as a wizard? A coup de grace with a scythe (20 damage) won't kill a level 3 fighter with 18 con on average. He would then wake up and maul me. I'd also have to cast fly through a scroll (not THAT big a deal, but still annoying).

As a wizard? You get the rest of your party to pulp him into a fine paste.

[Ashdate]

I'm going to go druid, I've decided (it was my original choice anyways).

However, out of curiosity, what do I do after I sleep him as a wizard? A coup de grace with a scythe (20 damage) won't kill a level 3 fighter with 18 con on average. He would then wake up and maul me. I'd also have to cast fly through a scroll (not THAT big a deal, but still annoying).

Well, he might survive the 20 damage, but would he survive the DC 30 Fortitude save to avoid dying?

And as mentioned, Alter Self can give you the wings that you'd need to fly, as a level 2 spell.

- Eddie

[sikyon]

Well, he might survive the 20 damage, but would he survive the DC 30 Fortitude save to avoid dying?

And as mentioned, Alter Self can give you the wings that you'd need to fly, as a level 2 spell.

- Eddie

Ahhh, clever. Thanks.