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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2009

    Default Alternate Roll Method

    Pretty short post here, I was playing around with alternate ways to generate stat blocks, as well as try to even it out for my players when it comes to generating attributes. Namely I have one player who routinely has pretty bad rolls on the ol' D6s, and one who has extremely good luck (Mostly 15s and 16s) mind you, it's with pretty much any dice, she just has really good luck with rolling attributes (All that luck goes right out the window when she touches a D20, alas the dice gods giveth, the dice gods TPK) But I'll break down a few methods I came up with that drastically brought the party closer to gather in terms of attributes rolled, anyway! Here we go.

    First Method:
    4d4RR1 To clarify, 4, 4-Sided Dice, any natural 1 is rerolled (Until it rolls something other than a natural 1)

    This means your lowest possible attribute is an 8, your highest is a 16.

    4d4 All 1s are 2s, same as above, except instead of rerolling a 1, it just counts as a two.

    Same attribute range, but you tend to average lower overall attributes.

    5d4RR1D1 - Roll 5, 4-sided dice, re-roll all natural 1s (Until something higher is rolled) after drop the lowest.

    You understand the premise at this point, so I don't think I really need to spell out every variation of it, but yeah, I've been using this method for about a year or so, and so far, it's produced significantly more balanced parties, you can still have dump stats (Especially when races have a penalty to an attribute) and you will still have some 18s (After racial modifiers of course) but it makes the party slightly less likely to have wild swings in either direction (One person having really bad overall modifiers like a +1 or +3, and another having insanely high things like +10).

    I've used this for Pathfinder, 3.5, 5e as well as Godbound, and it works really well with all of them so far, it seems to work especially well with Godbound, as in Godbound, many abilities will change an attribute from a 16 to an 18, if it's already a 16.

    Anyway, figured I'd post it here, this way if other GMs out there are trying to find a better means for attribute generation you can try this.

    P.S. To clarify, we stopped using Point Buy because it led to a lot of munchkin play, and a lot of "well it's optimal for this to be the dump stat" which just wasn't creating as diverse of characters, and we also just enjoyed rolling the shiny rocks more.
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    Life's a bitch, so if it's easy you're doing it wrong.

    I live to die, I love to lose, I trust to be betrayed, this is who I am.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    nickl_2000's Avatar

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    Default Re: Alternate Roll Method

    Quote Originally Posted by RegalKain View Post
    we also just enjoyed rolling the shiny rocks more.
    I think this is the strongest argument for rolled stats I have ever heard.


    Is I did my math correct, this would be your distribution.

    4d4 reroll 1s
    8 1.2%
    9 4.9%
    10 12.3%
    11 19.8%
    12 23.5%
    13 19.8%
    14 12.3%
    15 4.9%
    16 1.2%

    5d4 drop lowest
    4 0.1%
    5 0.5%
    6 1.5%
    7 3.4%
    8 6.4%
    9 10.3%
    10 14.2%
    11 16.6%
    12 16.7%
    13 14.2%
    14 9.8%
    15 4.9%
    16 1.6%

    Empirical testing on anydice with both is looking to be very average. Most stats in the 10-14 range, which will end up with less powerful characters than you would see with point buy of standard array, but more likely to be able to get some odd multi-classing due to having enough 13s to do it. I'm not sure I would particularly like it, but then I like having high and low stats. I think it makes for more interesting characters and more roleplay potential than someone who is "average" almost everywhere. That being said, it should be fine in a home game (especially if they are weaker and you can adjust encounters as necessary).
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2009

    Default Re: Alternate Roll Method

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    I think this is the strongest argument for rolled stats I have ever heard.


    Is I did my math correct, this would be your distribution.

    4d4 reroll 1s
    8 1.2%
    9 4.9%
    10 12.3%
    11 19.8%
    12 23.5%
    13 19.8%
    14 12.3%
    15 4.9%
    16 1.2%

    5d4 drop lowest
    4 0.1%
    5 0.5%
    6 1.5%
    7 3.4%
    8 6.4%
    9 10.3%
    10 14.2%
    11 16.6%
    12 16.7%
    13 14.2%
    14 9.8%
    15 4.9%
    16 1.6%

    Empirical testing on anydice with both is looking to be very average. Most stats in the 10-14 range, which will end up with less powerful characters than you would see with point buy of standard array, but more likely to be able to get some odd multi-classing due to having enough 13s to do it. I'm not sure I would particularly like it, but then I like having high and low stats. I think it makes for more interesting characters and more roleplay potential than someone who is "average" almost everywhere. That being said, it should be fine in a home game (especially if they are weaker and you can adjust encounters as necessary).
    Yeah, less swingy is basically what I was going for. The issue I ran into with point buy was often the "Fighter" type, having a Cha of 6, and a Str of 18, pretty much...always. I can appreciate roleplaying potential, but I think there's more potential if your rolled dice gives you a 15 Str, and a 13 Cha, great you aren't "Hulk smash" and you have to actually act like a normal person to some extent.

    Admittedly I've had some bad luck with people trying to excuse MurderHobo-itis with "Well I have a Wis of 9 and a Cha of 6, I don't know any better" Like no, little Timmy, you still know murdering the shop keep for his goods is wrong, you just wanna get away with murder for fun and get your party killed.

    I'm curious, as I haven't had the chance to test it in a 3.PF game yet, but, what would your thoughts be on a free +2 to a stat (Assuming it didn't bring your total to a 20 after Racial bonuses, or maybe even if it does.) ? I personally prefer low-fantasy, and lower levels of power, most of the games I run tend to run the gambit of Level 2-10, I've run a few campaigns into the low 20s, but at that point it feels very, very much so like Rocket Tag, and Save or Die/Suck, which my players and I find less fun.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Sep 2018

    Default Re: Alternate Roll Method

    The method that I have come up with for rolling is:
    3d6D1 + 4, so roll 3 standard 6 sided dice, drop the lowest value and add 4 to the remaining 2, generating a number between 6 and 16.
    Do this 5 times to generate the first 5 stats.
    Add the 5 stats. If the total is 42 or less (about 1 in 15,000 chance) scrap the character and start over. Otherwise use the following to determine the final stat:
    Sum of rolled stats Final stat
    43-55 16
    56-58 15
    59-60 14
    61-62 13
    63-64 12
    65-66 11
    67-68 10
    69-70 9
    71-72 8
    73-74 7
    75-80 6

    The distribution of the rolled stats is (can be verified with anydice)
    6 0.5%
    7 1.4%
    8 3.2%
    9 5.6%
    10 8.8%
    11 12.5%
    12 15.7%
    13 16.7%
    14 15.7%
    15 12.5%
    16 7.4%
    Average = 12.46

    Using Excel to brute force the probabilities, the distribution of the final (table) stat is
    6 0.3%
    7 1.0%
    8 2.9%
    9 6.0%
    10 10.0%
    11 13.7%
    12 15.7%
    13 15.4%
    14 13.0%
    15 13.1%
    16 9.0%
    Average = 12.46

    The average for an array of 6 scores is 74.75.
    Note that the standard 4d6d1, roll 6 times gives an average of 12.24 per score and 73.47 for the array of 6 scores.

    All arrays have a 13+ score and 98.9% of arrays have a 14+ score, so everyone can be good at something.
    All arrays have at least one 12 or lower, and 98.8% have an 11 or lower score, so no one is good at everything.
    No one has 6 identical scores.

    The range of the sum of scores from the standard method is 18-108.
    The range of the sum of scores for this method is 59-86.

    Randomness from dice rolling dominates the generation of the individual scores, but the spread between the strongest character and the weakest character is unlikely to be overwhelming.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2009

    Default Re: Alternate Roll Method

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    I think this is the strongest argument for rolled stats I have ever heard.


    Is I did my math correct, this would be your distribution.

    4d4 reroll 1s
    8 1.2%
    9 4.9%
    10 12.3%
    11 19.8%
    12 23.5%
    13 19.8%
    14 12.3%
    15 4.9%
    16 1.2%

    5d4 drop lowest
    4 0.1%
    5 0.5%
    6 1.5%
    7 3.4%
    8 6.4%
    9 10.3%
    10 14.2%
    11 16.6%
    12 16.7%
    13 14.2%
    14 9.8%
    15 4.9%
    16 1.6%

    Empirical testing on anydice with both is looking to be very average. Most stats in the 10-14 range, which will end up with less powerful characters than you would see with point buy of standard array, but more likely to be able to get some odd multi-classing due to having enough 13s to do it. I'm not sure I would particularly like it, but then I like having high and low stats. I think it makes for more interesting characters and more roleplay potential than someone who is "average" almost everywhere. That being said, it should be fine in a home game (especially if they are weaker and you can adjust encounters as necessary).

    I also just realized, you did this a bit wrong, as the 5d4 drop lowest, still re-rolls 1s. So you'd never get 4, 5, 6 or 7. So I'd wager that pushes the average up a bit.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    nickl_2000's Avatar

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    Default Re: Alternate Roll Method

    Quote Originally Posted by RegalKain View Post
    I also just realized, you did this a bit wrong, as the 5d4 drop lowest, still re-rolls 1s. So you'd never get 4, 5, 6 or 7. So I'd wager that pushes the average up a bit.
    Yup, you are completely right. I misread that, sorry

    8 0.41%
    9 2.06%
    10 6.17%
    11 12.35%
    12 18.93%
    13 22.63%
    14 20.58%
    15 12.35%
    16 4.53%

    Which makes it lean a lot more into the 13 range as an average on the stats and gives a little bit more of a superhuman feel since most stats are going to be above average.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2009

    Default Re: Alternate Roll Method

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    Yup, you are completely right. I misread that, sorry

    8 0.41%
    9 2.06%
    10 6.17%
    11 12.35%
    12 18.93%
    13 22.63%
    14 20.58%
    15 12.35%
    16 4.53%

    Which makes it lean a lot more into the 13 range as an average on the stats and gives a little bit more of a superhuman feel since most stats are going to be above average.
    Sorry, I forgot I made this post honestly, just remembered it and decided to check in, yeah in our rolls, so far we've probably rolled up about 20-30 characters (I also use Insanity in many of my games, so I have people roll 8 stats, assign as they want (Including Insanity) and toss the last stat into a table pool (This way if someone gets really unlucky, they can take from the table pool of stats to pad something.) And so far the average is 14 for us, most people end up with one 15 or 16, but a lot of characters are 10-14s across the board, before racial modifiers come into play. Works well for us, much fewer 18s running around, and no one has to try to figure out how to RP a 5 in something. (Which is a mixed bag, as I do enjoy my 5 Wisdom/Int players.) But I also tend to run my worlds a bit more on the lethal side, so people having competent stats is helpful.
    Amateur writer over at Royal Road! Come check me out! https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/65...s-from-alirast

    Life's a bitch, so if it's easy you're doing it wrong.

    I live to die, I love to lose, I trust to be betrayed, this is who I am.

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