About how many grams of caffine could be extracted from 10lbs of coffee beans?

[Phhase]

Assume either arabica or robusta coffee, I'm curious about both figures.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Would this be any good for you? It gives the % yields at the bottom of the page (averages 1.2% for Arabica, 2% for Robusta).

[DavidSh]

That seems consistent with the numbers I have seen that give 6 grams of coffee beans yielding 1 oz of espresso, and 1 oz of espresso having 64 mg (=0.064g) of caffeine. 0.064/6 ~ 1%. I expect the extraction is incomplete, the roasting may destroy some caffeine, and the beans are variable.

[Phhase]

1%. I expect the extraction is incomplete, the roasting may destroy some caffeine, and the beans are variable.

1% of what? Total mass/weight? Most extraction methods I've searched have approximately 95% complete yield.

[DavidSh]

1% of what? Total mass/weight? Most extraction methods I've searched have approximately 95% complete yield.

The 1% was mass of caffeine in the beverage per mass of the beans, and the extraction was through the normal espresso process. An extraction method that wasn't also designed to taste good might be more thorough. As, for example, the method used to decaffeinate coffee.

[Phhase]

An extraction method that wasn't also designed to taste good might be more thorough.

Yes, that was the aim, just pure chemical extraction. Cool, so to be sure, an approximate yield of 10lb arabica beans would be about 40g of pure caffeine, right?

[OracleofWuffing]

A handful of years ago, NileRed did a video where he chemically extracted caffeine from coffee grounds... He got 30mg caffeine out of 10g of coffee, noting that his instructions led him to believe that was below his expectations. Folger's Classic Roast was his choice, but that may or may not have been the reason for the low yield.

So, uh, convert beans to grounds and then pounds to grams, and, like, uh... numbers?

[DavidSh]

Yes, that was the aim, just pure chemical extraction. Cool, so to be sure, an approximate yield of 10lb arabica beans would be about 40g of pure caffeine, right?

For pure chemical extraction I would use the numbers Manga Shoggoth gave -- 1.2% for arabica beans. So 10lb of beans is 4536g of beans is about 54g of pure caffeine.

[Phhase]

For pure chemical extraction I would use the numbers Manga Shoggoth gave -- 1.2% for arabica beans. So 10lb of beans is 4536g of beans is about 54g of pure caffeine.

Nice. As a followup, while I know caffeine is highly soluble in hot water, will it precipitate out if the water cools down, or will it remain a supersaturated solution?

[gomipile]

Nice. As a followup, while I know caffeine is highly soluble in hot water, will it precipitate out if the water cools down, or will it remain a supersaturated solution?

First you have to get to a supersaturated solution of just caffeine and water. There are a bunch of steps you'll have to do before getting to the point where you can use recrystallization for this.

Have you watched the NileRed video yet? I haven't, but from watching other videos of his, I'll bet he covers some important points you'll want to know for understanding this process, even if you wouldn't end up wanting to use the exact same method as he did.

[Brother Oni]

Here's the NileRed video on where he extracts caffeine from coffee: link.

He notes at the end, extracting it from caffeine pills would be easier or simply buying it directly.

Can I ask why the OP wants to extract caffeine from coffee? Buying it in bulk in the US is a little tricky as the FDA has clamped down on it, but it's still freely available in the UK; one site I've found is selling it for £35 for 1 kg of 98.5% pure caffeine, which is far cheaper than the cost of reagents in the extraction method.

[Phhase]

Can I ask why the OP wants to extract caffeine from coffee?

Ah, well, strictly speaking, I'm playing in a D&D campaign where my DM and I are both chem enthusiasts, and I am trying to prepare a potentially lethal dose of caffeine by weight for a vampire my character has a vendetta against (caffeine has already been shown to act as a potent hallucinogen for vampires rather than a stimulant).

I understand that's semi-relevant context, and I would've posted this on the RPG board, but I was also interested for my own sake and thought this board might have a more precise answer, since the question really had no founding in any of the game's systems.




...what about the catgirls?

[Brother Oni]

Ah, well, strictly speaking, I'm playing in a D&D campaign where my DM and I are both chem enthusiasts, and I am trying to prepare a potentially lethal dose of caffeine by weight for a vampire my character has a vendetta against (caffeine has already been shown to act as a potent hallucinogen for vampires rather than a stimulant).

In that case, assuming you're going to make the vampire eat the caffeine (I'm also assuming that caffeine PK/PD is as per a normal human), you'll need about 150 - 200 mg of caffeine per kg of body weight to have a 50% chance of killing the vampire, assuming no pre-existing sensitivities. Assuming you've got a 70 kg (154 lb) vampire, you'd need between 10.5 to 14 g worth of caffeine.

Using the NileRed extraction method with a yield of 30 mg caffeine per 10 g of coffee (~1 cup), you'd need between 3.5 - 4.7 kg of coffee.

If you switched to caffeine pills, which can have up to 200 mg per tablet, then you'd need between 53 - 70 pills (if you forcefed the vampire those rather than extract the caffeine out of them).

NileRed did an extraction with 100 mg tablets (link) and got a yield of 85% (8.5g per 100 tablets), so between 124 - 165 of those 100 mg tablets.


Note that these figures are solely for having a 50% chance of the vampire dying there and then (acute poisoning). If you want the vampire simply tripping testicles, leaving them physically incapable of doing anything before you force-feed them the rest of the lethal dose, then a single 200 mg pill should do the trick; 'highly potent' has a number of definitions in the pharmaceutical industry, the most appropriate of which is 10 mg per day having a pharmacological effect.

...what about the catgirls?

Those are normally for physics violations. Biology catgirls get labcoats and other proper PPE.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Those are normally for physics violations. Biology catgirls get labcoats and other proper PPE.

Don't be silly! Catgirls get improper PPE. And improper labcoats.

[Brother Oni]

Don't be silly! Catgirls get improper PPE. And improper labcoats.

Unfortunately this board is PG13 rated so we can't get into the sexy catgirls in improperly worn labcoats and PPE.

[Phhase]

In that case, assuming you're going to make the vampire eat the caffeine (I'm also assuming that caffeine PK/PD is as per a normal human), you'll need about 150 - 200 mg of caffeine per kg of body weight to have a 50% chance of killing the vampire, assuming no pre-existing sensitivities. Assuming you've got a 70 kg (154 lb) vampire, you'd need between 10.5 to 14 g worth of caffeine.

Note that these figures are solely for having a 50% chance of the vampire dying there and then (acute poisoning). If you want the vampire simply tripping testicles, leaving them physically incapable of doing anything before you force-feed them the rest of the lethal dose, then a single 200 mg pill should do the trick; 'highly potent' has a number of definitions in the pharmaceutical industry, the most appropriate of which is 10 mg per day having a pharmacological effect.

Fortunately I was already able to get a natural 20 on extraction, so i just needed to figure out the size of the yield. I have ~42g to work with, and we're at a tech level where a hypospray-like needle-device is accessible, so a single attack roll should do. That's why my main concern is how much I can cram in solution.

We're on a boat, so even if the poison doesn't whack em (though I'm taking no chances), disabled will do. We're over deep water, and my character is (literally) made of iron, so while there is certainly a depth where I am crushed like a tin can, it is likely deeper than the depth I have to take the vampire to for them to be squashed like a toothpaste tube. Running water is not a vampiric concern here. Also, gaseous form can't pass through liquids.

[snowblizz]

, and I am trying to prepare a potentially lethal dose of caffeine

I *knew* it.

[Rockphed]

I *knew* it.

My personal favorite caffeine article was an account of trying to control tiny (but very loud) frogs on Hawaii by spraying a caffeine solution over where the frogs were. I never saw a follow-up article, so I don't know how effective it was.

[Brother Oni]

Fortunately I was already able to get a natural 20 on extraction, so i just needed to figure out the size of the yield. I have ~42g to work with, and we're at a tech level where a hypospray-like needle-device is accessible, so a single attack roll should do. That's why my main concern is how much I can cram in solution.

We're on a boat, so even if the poison doesn't whack em (though I'm taking no chances), disabled will do. We're over deep water, and my character is (literally) made of iron, so while there is certainly a depth where I am crushed like a tin can, it is likely deeper than the depth I have to take the vampire to for them to be squashed like a toothpaste tube. Running water is not a vampiric concern here. Also, gaseous form can't pass through liquids.

If it's a nat 20, then I'd argue that you managed to get 100% out, so between 504 - 840 mg of caffeine (42g x 1.2% or 2% based on the coffee figures above).

Ignoring the solubility, you're looking at under a minute for the vampire to start being affected as the caffeine has to hit the brain, so tagging them in the heart or carotid would have an effect within seconds, compared to longer if you hit them in the femoral artery.

[gomipile]

My personal favorite caffeine article was an account of trying to control tiny (but very loud) frogs on Hawaii by spraying a caffeine solution over where the frogs were. I never saw a follow-up article, so I don't know how effective it was.

I found a summary of the history of the project:

https://portal.nifa.usda.gov/web/cri...in-hawaii.html

[Tarmor]

I found a summary of the history of the project:

https://portal.nifa.usda.gov/web/cri...in-hawaii.html

That was a fun distraction from the original topic. Overdosing frogs on caffeine! We need a follow-up study to investigate how many coqui frogs in Hawaii are now addicted to caffeine and whether the frogs are now hiding out in cafes rather than in potted plants!

[Rynjin]

we're at a tech level where a hypospray-like needle-device is accessible, so a single attack roll should do. T

Damn, man, the off-button hypospray is supposed to be the NON-lethal solution!

[Brother Oni]

Damn, man, the off-button hypospray is supposed to be the NON-lethal solution!

How else are you going to poison your victims in combat? Stab them like a heathen?

[Phhase]

Damn, man, the off-button hypospray is supposed to be the NON-lethal solution!

Mmm, but it can deliver a higher dose. Besides, this is less of an off-button, and more of an on-button for every cell in their brain simultaneously.