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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Hey there.

    So, probably a stupid question for many, but I don't quite fathom how you can work together in MMORPGs if you have different factions and character classes.

    As far as I know, choosing certain combinations means that you start in different areas. So do you have to play solo for a while until you have left the starting area and can join your friends?
    Like, a night elf ranger in WoW starts at level 1 and wants to play with an Orcish warrior or a Dwarven warrior? Same problem in TOR I believe...

    Thanks in advance.
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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    If it's faction-based - for example, WoW - you can only team up with members of your own faction. A Night Elf can never ally with an Orc, because they're members of opposed factions. As far as classes - again at least in WoW all Night Elves start in one zone, essentially their tutorial 'how to play' area, regardless of class. All Dwarves start in a different tutorial zone. So you could team up with other Night Elves at level 1. Once you've finished all the quests in your tutorial area, you are strong enough to leave and enter the next zones, where you might start seeing characters of other races. Unless you have a high-level player escort you through the intermediate zones, you'd team up with whoever's racial starting zone is closest to yours.

    It might work differently in an MMO like Final Fantasy Online, I'm not sure how they handle tutorial areas. I think TOR segregated starting areas by class rather than race - all Bounty Hunters began in one region, all Sith in another.
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Final Fantasy 14, every class starts in one of three city-states and have therefore the same leveling zones, up to lvl 15 where they all have the same main storyline to follow.

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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Back in the old days when I played WoW I leveled with friends several times. Like people have said you would pick races that started in the same zones*, but the classes could be different. There were class specific quests sometimes so occasionally the friend just tags along or goes to pick flowers for an hour.

    Other MMO's are easier or harder based on how they are designed. Something that i have seen a few times is everyone has a tutorial but then everyone starts in the same place and can teleport at will, at that point the only difficulty is level differences.

    Guild Wars 2/Destiny 2 solved the level differences by having higher levels de-level in lower zones so you can go play with a lower level friend.


    *If you played a few characters (ie know the geography) and are willing to go through an hour or two of boredom/headache you can get any combination of races from the same faction in the same area to play together at level 1.
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    In current WoW all the starting cities have a fairly quick way to access the main hub city of each faction, and the modern tutorial straight up dumps you there regardless of your race. The dungeon finder (ie group finder) will also teleport you into your dungeon while leveling.
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Faction-based MMOs are mostly a thing of the past. The only ones left with much of a player base are World of Warcraft and City of Heroes, which are both over fifteen years old. Attempts to make new ones have crashed and burned, since splitting your player base is not good for the health of a game. Even in CoH, which does divide heroes and villains into separate zones for most of the game, you can switch sides or go middle ground easily, so you can group with everyone. ...And that's still enough of a limitation that few people play on the much better-designed villain side.

    In modern MMOs, the most divided the players get is at the start. Most games these days start everyone out in a newbie zone which is likely to depend on your character's race or class, so they can have some setting-specific story tailored to what you want to play, as well as not overloading a new player with options. After that, they tend to make it easy to get to whatever the main hub of the game is. It's been clear for a long time now that the less restrictions a game has on letting the players do what they find fun, the more successful it's likely to be.
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Most cooperative gameplay in MMOs takes place in the form of specific, instanced, group content, ex. dungeons, raids, boss fights, etc. (different games use different terms), that players enter some kind of queue or travel to a specific location to join. Actually wandering around the game map, while something you can do in a group, is generally undertaken alone (or grouped for specific RP purposes, but that's kind of its own thing). Players can generally group up fairly freely outside of initial tutorial zones, but often simply don't bother. A surprisingly large amount of MMO gameplay is effectively single-player and is programmed into the games accordingly.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Thanks everyone, that helped a lot.
    Also, happy new year
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVid View Post
    Faction-based MMOs are mostly a thing of the past. The only ones left with much of a player base are World of Warcraft and City of Heroes, which are both over fifteen years old. Attempts to make new ones have crashed and burned, since splitting your player base is not good for the health of a game. Even in CoH, which does divide heroes and villains into separate zones for most of the game, you can switch sides or go middle ground easily, so you can group with everyone. ...And that's still enough of a limitation that few people play on the much better-designed villain side.

    In modern MMOs, the most divided the players get is at the start. Most games these days start everyone out in a newbie zone which is likely to depend on your character's race or class, so they can have some setting-specific story tailored to what you want to play, as well as not overloading a new player with options. After that, they tend to make it easy to get to whatever the main hub of the game is. It's been clear for a long time now that the less restrictions a game has on letting the players do what they find fun, the more successful it's likely to be.
    WoW are only keeping it so they can have plotlines where the Alliance and Horde join together to fight a common foe.

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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by ComicSansSeraph View Post
    WoW are only keeping it so they can have plotlines where the Alliance and Horde join together to fight a common foe.
    I think you may have cause and effect backwards.
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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    With how clunky the code has to be after this long, it might not even be possible. Something as simple as altering the number of backpack item slots can cause a massive chain reaction, and merging the factions would involve rewriting at least half the quests and NPC flags in the game, if not more.

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    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2022-01-02 at 08:32 PM.

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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVid View Post
    Faction-based MMOs are mostly a thing of the past. The only ones left with much of a player base are World of Warcraft and City of Heroes, which are both over fifteen years old. Attempts to make new ones have crashed and burned, since splitting your player base is not good for the health of a game. Even in CoH, which does divide heroes and villains into separate zones for most of the game, you can switch sides or go middle ground easily, so you can group with everyone. ...And that's still enough of a limitation that few people play on the much better-designed villain side.

    In modern MMOs, the most divided the players get is at the start. Most games these days start everyone out in a newbie zone which is likely to depend on your character's race or class, so they can have some setting-specific story tailored to what you want to play, as well as not overloading a new player with options. After that, they tend to make it easy to get to whatever the main hub of the game is. It's been clear for a long time now that the less restrictions a game has on letting the players do what they find fun, the more successful it's likely to be.
    Final Fantasy XIV also does a sort-of-faction system where all of the factions are on the same side. At around level 20 you join a Grand Company of one of the three main cities, and while they have somewhat different characterization and philosophy they're overall allied and it's not like you can go off and join the Empire instead or anything. Apparently the PvP mode's battles (all of which are on a separate island from everything else) used to group based on your actual Grand Company, but now they randomize the teams since the Maelstrom kept winning too much.

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    Daemon

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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by SerTabris View Post
    Final Fantasy XIV also does a sort-of-faction system where all of the factions are on the same side. At around level 20 you join a Grand Company of one of the three main cities, and while they have somewhat different characterization and philosophy they're overall allied and it's not like you can go off and join the Empire instead or anything. Apparently the PvP mode's battles (all of which are on a separate island from everything else) used to group based on your actual Grand Company, but now they randomize the teams since the Maelstrom kept winning too much.
    And you can switch Grand Companies (almost) at will, although you have to rank up in the new one (which is fairly easy). And the overall effect is that a couple quests point you to one city instead of another, mainly early on. And your turn-in location for certain items/vendors for certain items are in different cities.

    That's about it.
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Factions are a relic. Especially if you try to do more than two and keep them all populated/viable.

    This isn't to say there isn't an audience for MMOs that do this, but it's an increasingly niche one. The highest-profile recent example is New World, but faction balance appears to be one of the community's bugbears.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Factions are a relic. Especially if you try to do more than two and keep them all populated/viable.

    This isn't to say there isn't an audience for MMOs that do this, but it's an increasingly niche one. The highest-profile recent example is New World, but faction balance appears to be one of the community's bugbears.
    There will always be a large crowd that thrives on PvP. And having factions maketh the PvP more fun. Even if the factions are more or less not overly hostile in PvE (such as in ESO) they are still mixing it up hardcore in the PvP areas.
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    There will always be a large crowd that thrives on PvP. And having factions maketh the PvP more fun. Even if the factions are more or less not overly hostile in PvE (such as in ESO) they are still mixing it up hardcore in the PvP areas.
    Oh, I have no issue whatsoever with factions that only matter in PvP areas/modes. It's when that nonsense starts impacting my PvE storytelling and gameplay that I get annoyed by it.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Factions are a relic. Especially if you try to do more than two and keep them all populated/viable.

    This isn't to say there isn't an audience for MMOs that do this, but it's an increasingly niche one. The highest-profile recent example is New World, but faction balance appears to be one of the community's bugbears.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    There will always be a large crowd that thrives on PvP. And having factions maketh the PvP more fun. Even if the factions are more or less not overly hostile in PvE (such as in ESO) they are still mixing it up hardcore in the PvP areas.
    I think EVE Online is an interesting example (or possibly counterexample?) here. The importance of the four preset factions the game asks you to pick between at character creation has diminished hugely over time, at this point it's mostly just a matter of cosmetics and starting equipment/skills. Factional conflict is still a huge part of the game for a lot of people... it's just that the factions in question are player-founded alliances, and their interactions with one another are more like actual political entities than rival sports teams.

    EVE Online has always been a weird outlier in the field of MMOs, mind you.
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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Yeah, any MMO where an in-game conflict results in (alleged) tampering of someone's RL out-of-game phone lines/internet connection to hamper their participation is definitely an outlier. EVE players are crazy pants.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    MMOs offer opportunities to have cooperative gameplay in other ways. Every so often in FFXIV I'll ride my unicorn around the early-game areas and lob Cures at people for an hour,

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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    That's something I did often in Dungeons & Dragons Online. My epic level character has looted a pile of level 5 and lower gear? I'd head over to the tutorial island and hand them out.
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVid View Post
    That's something I did often in Dungeons & Dragons Online. My epic level character has looted a pile of level 5 and lower gear? I'd head over to the tutorial island and hand them out.
    When I played Everquest I would do stuff like that or run mini events. Take my druid, charm a bear in a low level zone then buff it up, then challenge the players to beat it for a prize. Suddenly that bear that was an easy kill is 100x more dangerous (damage shields are just UNFAIR in these situations lol) And yeah, tossing high level buffs on low level players at random was always fun. Honestly I miss classic everquest. It was a game with a tight knit community, getting to high levels was a serious investment of time and effort and generally required grouping up. And if someone was a jerk, eventually everyone knew it and they got ostracized which was a huge deal when it could take you months to get another character up to the same level. It kept things civilized.
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    When I played Everquest I would do stuff like that or run mini events. Take my druid, charm a bear in a low level zone then buff it up, then challenge the players to beat it for a prize. Suddenly that bear that was an easy kill is 100x more dangerous (damage shields are just UNFAIR in these situations lol) And yeah, tossing high level buffs on low level players at random was always fun. Honestly I miss classic everquest. It was a game with a tight knit community, getting to high levels was a serious investment of time and effort and generally required grouping up. And if someone was a jerk, eventually everyone knew it and they got ostracized which was a huge deal when it could take you months to get another character up to the same level. It kept things civilized.
    Yeah. Im having fun with WoW now, but nothing will beat the peak days of EQ for me.

    Which server did you play on?
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Yeah. Im having fun with WoW now, but nothing will beat the peak days of EQ for me.

    Which server did you play on?
    Lanys t'val is how I believe it was called. And considering that was 18-20 years ago, that should show those who havent played just how meaningful the game was to those of us who played. And I agree, I enjoyed WoW original but everquest was my first foray into the genre and I loved it. My next fun game was dark age of camelot, but that eventually burned my enjoyment of pvp from my body. Then I played a few others, lord of the rings, conan, none really grabbed me till WoW.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    And if someone was a jerk, eventually everyone knew it and they got ostracized which was a huge deal when it could take you months to get another character up to the same level. It kept things civilized.
    Unfortunately, that just means the easier/more convenient competitor is going to eat that "hardcore" experience for lunch.

    The way to foster civility without making progression a pain is to invest in moderation tools and people, something ActiBlizz is (at least currently) unwilling to do. This would include tools that can empower the community to self-police.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    It looks like World of Warcraft is finally taking a step back from the hard faction divide:

    https://www.polygon.com/22911107/wor...iance-ptr-test
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    I honestly dont know how I feel about that. I think I would be more in favor of it if it was restricted to new content where the story revolves around both factions working together rather than just having an orc bump into some night elves at scholomance going, "Hey, mind if I help kill the undead here?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I honestly dont know how I feel about that. I think I would be more in favor of it if it was restricted to new content where the story revolves around both factions working together rather than just having an orc bump into some night elves at scholomance going, "Hey, mind if I help kill the undead here?"
    From my understanding, their initial implementation at least wont work for any dungeons that have faction-specific content, and can only be used for premade groups (ie the random queue will never pair an orc with a bunch of night elves). Its also an opt-in process because of that, so if you're an orc who hates the Alliance for whatever reason, you dont have to play with them.
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I honestly dont know how I feel about that. I think I would be more in favor of it if it was restricted to new content where the story revolves around both factions working together rather than just having an orc bump into some night elves at scholomance going, "Hey, mind if I help kill the undead here?"
    Scholomance threatens both factions equally though. The Cult of the Damned doesn't care what race you are as long as you have a skeletal system, that's kind of the point of teaming up.

    As noted, dungeons and raids with faction-specific content like Stratholme won't be part of this (at least initially).
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    I am going back a long time here. But, Dsrk Age of Camelot had 3 factions and each faction had its own unique selection of classes.

    Furthermore, they had a co-op server- Gaheris where any of the three factions could team up (DAoC was a PvP focused game). So at least in that particular instance it was as easy as traveling to the other faction.

    I think other games (minus wow) have similar set ups. But, it seems wow is getting rid or at least refocusing its applications of factions?

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    Default Re: How does cooperative gaming in MMORPGs actually work?

    WoW is keeping factions but (in specific circumstances - namely instanced, non-queued PvE/cooperative content) experimenting with allowing players from different factions to play together.

    Because this only works for manually formed groups, it will be purely opt-in. You can't queue up for a random dungeon or Raid Finder and find horde and alliance dropped in together, it has to be a conscious choice by the group leader.

    The big benefit here is that a manually-formed groups are necessary for top-end PvE content, things like Mythic+ dungeons and Heroic/Mythic raiding that require communication and coordination. Over time, players who want to participate in that content in most most regions (especially North America, EU, and China) have been essentially forced to play Horde or else find themselves with few to no prospects for organized groups. (In Oceania it's the opposite - the majority of mid-high to high-end players are Alliance.)

    This is a positive change, but the big hurdle they have yet to clear are guilds - which are still locked to one faction. So your guild can play with Alliance players, but you can't actually invite them to your guild to benefit from the social structure that exists outside of that content. Communities, or external platforms like Discord, can be used to coordinate instead, but both have their drawbacks as well.

    Still, as mentioned, it is a positive first step overall.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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