With Truesight I can Eldritch Blast a BBEG True Polymorphed into an adamantium statue

[bid]

Only creatures have true names.

According to you, True Polymorph eradicates the true name of the corpse.

So, according to you corpse are creatures, right?

This is starting to sound like GIGO. Reset your neural net.

[AIResearch]

So, according to you corpse are creatures, right?

This is starting to sound like GIGO. Reset your neural net.

Dead creatures are creatures.

[Keltest]

AIR, please take a step back and just explain your point completely. I for one have no idea what you're even arguing at this point.

[Keltest]

Dead creatures are creatures.

Dead creatures are a specific subset of objects actually.

[AIResearch]

AIR, please take a step back and just explain your point completely. I for one have no idea what you're even arguing at this point.

At this point I need you to clarify whether True Polymorph eradicates the true name as that has consequences in the game you cannot ignore which directly impinge on the discussion at hand.

[JackPhoenix]

At this point I need you to clarify whether True Polymorph eradicates the true name as that has consequences in the game you cannot ignore which directly impinge on the discussion at hand.

You have failed to provide your definition of "eradicate". Because you seem to have different understanding of language and logic than other people, you need to provide the definition of words you're using so other can communicate with you on the same level.

[AIResearch]

You have failed to provide your definition of "eradicate". Because you seem to have different understanding of language and logic than other people, you need to provide the definition of words you're using so other can communicate with you on the same level.

Feel free to apply the dictionary definition of eradicate in your answer.

[Keltest]

At this point I need you to clarify whether True Polymorph eradicates the true name as that has consequences in the game you cannot ignore which directly impinge on the discussion at hand.

For the sake of my sanity, no. It doesn't do anything to the true name of the creature. Now please explain why it matters at all.

[JackPhoenix]

Feel free to apply the dictionary definition of eradicate in your answer.

Well, in that case, no. The devil or demon (because those are the only creatures which have true names, and even then, not all of them) in question doesn't have true name as long as it's transformed into something that isn't an appropriate creature. A pit fiend TP'd into a hezrou would have true name (hard to say if it would be the same true name, the rules are silent on that matter). The same pit fiend TP'd into a lemure (or a chair, or a cat) wouldn't.

For the sake of my sanity, no. It doesn't do anything to the true name of the creature. Now please explain why it matters at all.

Here's a fun fact: Not every creature have a true name.

[Keltest]

I'm assuming they're using "true name" in the sense of "given name that works for true Resurrection and gate" here rather than in the fiendish sense.

[AIResearch]

I'm assuming they're using "true name" in the sense of "given name that works for true Resurrection and gate" here rather than in the fiendish sense.

So if you Gate a creature that is being transformed by magical effect into a statue, what happens?

[Keltest]

So if you Gate a creature that is being transformed by magical effect into a statue, what happens?

Nothing. A statue is not a viable target for summoning via gate even if you do have a name associated with it.

[JackPhoenix]

I'm assuming they're using "true name" in the sense of "given name that works for true Resurrection and gate" here rather than in the fiendish sense.

Neither is refered to as true name, and I personally wouldn't make any assumption about what AIResearch means by words he's using

[AIResearch]

Nothing. A statue is not a viable target for summoning via gate even if you do have a name associated with it.

By extension, according to you, a creature like Halaster can be True Polymorphed into a different creature (a bronze dragon), losing the name in the process, so you cannot Gate Halastar if he is True Polymorphed.

[Keltest]

By extension, according to you, a creature like Halaster can be True Polymorphed into a different creature (a bronze dragon), losing the name in the process, so you cannot Gate Halastar if he is True Polymorphed.

No? If he is true polymorphed into another creature, then, as a creature, he is a valid target for Gate.

[RSP]

At this point I need you to clarify whether True Polymorph eradicates the true name as that has consequences in the game you cannot ignore which directly impinge on the discussion at hand.

For the record, neither Gate nor True Polymorph mention “true names”: is this something you’ve made up?

[AIResearch]

No? If he is true polymorphed into another creature, then, as a creature, he is a valid target for Gate.

What happens when you Gate "Halaster" who is currently True Polymorphed into a bronze dragon that is not named Halaster?

[Keltest]

What happens when you Gate "Halaster" who is currently True Polymorphed into a bronze dragon that is not named Halaster?

why is the dragon not named Halaster?

[AIResearch]

why is the dragon not named Halaster?

So according to you True Polymorph does not do anything to the real true name of the creature?

[Keltest]

So according to you True Polymorph does not do anything to the real true name of the creature?

Yes, thats what i said the first time. The "real true name" isnt a thing, but if it were, TP wouldnt affect it.

[AIResearch]

Yes, thats what i said the first time. The "real true name" isnt a thing, but if it were, TP wouldnt affect it.

Gate and True Resurrect refer to specific names. If you True Resurrect John Smith do you resurrect every past person named John Smith or just the John Smith you had in mind (such that specific name means unique ID) or does the spell fail because the name is providing countless creatures when you must supply one?

[JNAProductions]

Gate and True Resurrect refer to specific names. If you True Resurrect John Smith do you resurrect every past person named John Smith or just the John Smith you had in mind (such that specific name means unique ID) or does the spell fail because the name is providing countless creatures when you must supply one?

You return the John Smith you were thinking of to life. It's more than the name-it's the intent behind it.

AI, question: Do you expect to use this at a table?

[AIResearch]

You return the John Smith you were thinking of to life. It's more than the name-it's the intent behind it.

AI, question: Do you expect to use this at a table?

So the specific name is a unique ID associated with the creature and True Polymorph does not cause that unique ID to be lost? Cool.

Now we just have to address the house rule that True Polymorph is an instantaneous spell rather than an ongoing magical effect and the house rule that changes the ability description of Truesight and True Seeing to the past tense.

Truesight enables you to target the statue with EB because you can perceive that the statue is not just an object but IS in actual fact a creature that IS being transformed by magical effect into an object.

[RSP]

So according to you True Polymorph does not do anything to the real true name of the creature?

Why are you asking us to adjudicate your houserules?

Particularly without any explanation of said houserules?

“True name” is not in the RAW.

Gate and True Resurrect refer to specific names.

Gate and TR refer to “names.” That’s it.

Gate
“When you cast this spell, you can speak the name of a specific creature (a pseudonym, title, or nickname doesn't work).”

TR:
“The spell can even provide a new body if the original no longer exists, in which case you must speak the creature's name.”

Some wants to TR Tom Smith, they say “Tom Smith”. Same with Gate.

If TP made a creature an object, then neither spell works.

If TP made a creature a creature: what is that new creature’s name? If it’s Tom Smith, then Gate works.

Truesight enables you to target the statue with EB because you can perceive that the statue is not just an object but IS in actual fact a creature that IS being transformed by magical effect into an object.

No.

First off, neither perception nor seeing is required to target with EB, so if the supposed object is really a creature (like a Mimic) it can be targeted as a creature, regardless of Truesight. Just like you can still target a creature who is invisible.

However, as has been relayed to you many times and which you choose to ignore, TP does, in fact, actually change the creature into an object, if that’s the effect being used.

[Mitchellnotes]

So the specific name is a unique ID associated with the creature and True Polymorph does not cause that unique ID to be lost? Cool.

Now we just have to address the house rule that True Polymorph is an instantaneous spell rather than an ongoing magical effect and the house rule that changes the ability description of Truesight and True Seeing to the past tense.

Truesight enables you to target the statue with EB because you can perceive that the statue is not just an object but IS in actual fact a creature that IS being transformed by magical effect into an object.

By this argument, would you say that if you polymorphed a creature into another creature that you could target the original's hp instead of what it was polymorphed into? That clearly isnt how it is intended to work or stated to work. Therefore, true polymorphing a creature into something that isn't targetable means you cant target it even if you knew it was a creature. The conversation on true names is a red herring and doesnt have bearing on if it is targetable.

[RSP]

And again, nothing in the RAW requires seeing a creature to make a Weapon Attack against it, so, if TP doesn’t actually transform something, then the original creature can still be targeted by Weapon Attacks (or any spells that don’t require sight), regardless of Truesight.

AIR, you’ve yet to address this for 5 pages though it’s been pointed out multiple times.

But again, TP does change the original creature, which is why it isn’t eligible as a target for anything: because it no longer exists.

[Keltest]

And again, nothing in the RAW requires seeing a creature to make a Weapon Attack against it, so, if TP doesn’t actually transform something, then the original creature can still be targeted by Weapon Attacks (or any spells that don’t require sight), regardless of Truesight.

AIR, you’ve yet to address this for 5 pages though it’s been pointed out multiple times.

But again, TP does change the original creature, which is why it isn’t eligible as a target for anything: because it no longer exists.

more specifically, you are explicitly allowed to target creatures that you cant see, or at least attempt to.

[AIResearch]

And again, nothing in the RAW requires seeing a creature to make a Weapon Attack against it, so, if TP doesn’t actually transform something, then the original creature can still be targeted by Weapon Attacks (or any spells that don’t require sight), regardless of Truesight.

AIR, you’ve yet to address this for 5 pages though it’s been pointed out multiple times.

But again, TP does change the original creature, which is why it isn’t eligible as a target for anything: because it no longer exists.

The creature does exist. The creature is part of an ongoing magical effect that is transforming the fully present actual creature into a statue that is entirely a magical manifestation. True Polymorph is not an instantaneous spell.

The requirement for targeting with EB per XGtE is merely believing the target is a creature. Truesight achieves that with ease as the creature enabled with that sense directly perceives that the statue is not just a statue but is actually a creature that is being transformed by an ongoing effect into a statue.

The requirement for damaging with EB is first that the damage delivered can damage an object. Force damage can damage an object and no where does it say that EB cannot damage an object only that the target is a creature. Second, the caster must directly perceive the creature underneath the derived transform such that they directly know rather than just believe that the target is a creature. Truesight enables the direct perception of the base creature that is being transformed by magical effect into the derived statue form.

[georgie_leech]

The creature does exist. The creature is part of an ongoing magical effect that is transforming the fully present actual creature into a statue that is entirely a magical manifestation. True Polymorph is not an instantaneous spell.

The requirement for targeting with EB per XGtE is merely believing the target is a creature. Truesight achieves that with ease as the creature enabled with that sense directly perceives that the statue is not just a statue but is actually a creature that is being transformed by an ongoing effect into a statue.

The requirement for damaging with EB is first that the damage delivered can damage an object. Force damage can damage an object and no where does it say that EB cannot damage an object only that the target is a creature. Second, the caster must directly perceive the creature underneath the derived transform such that they directly know rather than just believe that the target is a creature. Truesight enables the direct perception of the base creature that is being transformed by magical effect into the derived statue form.

You're contradicting yourself a bit, methinks.

[AIResearch]

You're contradicting yourself a bit, methinks.

Not a contradiction. You can target something you believe is a viable target (e.g. an illusion) but it will fizzle unless the target is a valid target. Truesight reveals that the statue is actually a creature that is being transformed by magical effect into a statue and thereby unveils that it is a valid target. The truth that Truesight unveils is otherwise hidden.