Results 1 to 30 of 33
Thread: Keen rapier
-
2022-01-07, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Keen rapier
Can someone explain to me how my player came up with a cost of 235 gold for a keen rapier?
It's like 8k, no? Am I crazy?DnD Me
SpoilerNeutral Evil Human Sorcerer/Rogue (1st/1st Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength-13
Dexterity-12
Constitution-12
Intelligence-15
Wisdom-11
Charisma-13
-
2022-01-07, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
- Location
- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: Keen rapier
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
Spoiler: Former AvatarsSpoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
Spoiler: Individual Avatar Pics
-
2022-01-07, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: Keen rapier
Ha no. I was just told that he went over it with another party member who now that I think about it, said he mostly plays pathfinder. wondering if he messed up rule sets.
DnD Me
SpoilerNeutral Evil Human Sorcerer/Rogue (1st/1st Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength-13
Dexterity-12
Constitution-12
Intelligence-15
Wisdom-11
Charisma-13
-
2022-01-07, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: Keen rapier
No idea. I just reexplained the cost. Is there a way to delete this thread? players finding this would be slightly unfortunate.
DnD Me
SpoilerNeutral Evil Human Sorcerer/Rogue (1st/1st Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength-13
Dexterity-12
Constitution-12
Intelligence-15
Wisdom-11
Charisma-13
-
2022-01-07, 08:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
Maybe he had a Large sized +1 morphing/keen arrow that he turned into and uses as a rapier? Or maybe he doesn't have keen on it but instead has Improved Critical?
[edit] Maybe he has a feat that allows him to get one or more items for cheap? For instance, Ancestral Relic, which grants (essentially) free WBL. Or maybe he had crafting cost reducers and reduced the cost of crafting the weapon.⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2022-01-07, 08:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
- Location
- Avatar By Astral Seal!
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
Spoiler: Former AvatarsSpoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
Spoiler: Individual Avatar Pics
-
2022-01-07, 08:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
Ask him for the details. If he doesn't have them ask the other player. But the item doesn't exist in your world until you have approved the build.
Be polite and friendly. And firm.
-
2022-01-07, 09:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: Keen rapier
DnD Me
SpoilerNeutral Evil Human Sorcerer/Rogue (1st/1st Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength-13
Dexterity-12
Constitution-12
Intelligence-15
Wisdom-11
Charisma-13
-
2022-01-07, 09:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
There...are a couple of ways I know of to get a non-magical enhancement bonus on a weapon, which lets you get magical abilities without a markup for having an additional magical +1 to boost the price. Magical enhancement costs are based explicitly on the effective magical enhancement bonus of the weapon, while, RAW, you only need an enhancement bonus but not a magical enhancement bonus to magically enhance a weapon with special abilities. So a non-magical enhancement bonus to attack and damage will allow you to magically enhance it further without increasing the costs of further magical enhancements.
The kakita katana, from Oriental Adventures, grants a +2 enhancement bonus to attack and damage for +8,000 gp, but since it's non-magical, adding keen is a mere +2,000 gp instead of +10,000 gp.
The other way is adding a +1 via making it a device, from Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood. It requires a very expensive fuel cell, however, which generally makes up the difference.
You could also hit it with a permanency'd magic weapon spell, which costs nothing but a bit of XP, and it'd allow you to further magically enhance it with keen or whatever else you want.
However, all of those still cost more than a few hundred gp, even if it's just for the keen property. Although there are effects that grant the keen property, such as the scabbard of keen edges or the artificer's personal weapon augmentation infusion. Or maybe the player pulled some acorn of far travel hax?⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2022-01-08, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
The crucial point is that is has to be approved by the DM. Until you see how it was done, don't approve it.
-
2022-01-10, 03:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
Umm, even if they would mix up the rules, that kind of misunderstanding wouldn't have any basis in Pathfinder (1st edition), because they have exactly same magic item costs.
I had to check for 2nd edition because I haven't played that edition myself, but it would seem that even there a keen item would cost over 3,000 gp.
So, it's safe to say this isn't Pathfinder's fault.
The misunderstanding must've come from elsewhere.Last edited by Arkhios; 2022-01-10 at 03:20 AM.
-
2022-01-10, 08:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- Copenhagen
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
IIRC, its indeed a +2 weapon. Either he's found some specific weapon in like Arms and Armor guide or some 3rd party material, which they might have miss-priced or he's got something wrong...
Lets see if I remember... Its 320gp for the masterwork rapier, then 8000 for the +1, keen enchants. For a total of 8320gp. If he's building/enchanting it himself its then: 107gp for the masterwork weapon and 4000 for the enchantments for at total of 4107gp.
-
2022-01-10, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
Last edited by Arkhios; 2022-01-10 at 01:53 PM.
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
-
2022-01-10, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2020
Re: Keen rapier
Native Sha'ir enthusiast. NO GENIE WARLOCK DOESNT COUNT!
Rate my homebrew: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...&postcount=323
-
2022-01-10, 02:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- Round Rock, TX
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
I vote for "going from memory + typo"
+1 enhancement is 2,000
masterwork is 300
lot of swords are 15 gp (longsword, scimitar). probably thought rapier was the same
so 2,315. but whoops, missed the 1. ergo 235 gpAvatar by Qwernt
-
2022-01-10, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
Ammo costs 1/50 the price of a melee or ranged weapon, and morphing is a thing...
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2022-01-10, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
- Location
- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: Keen rapier
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
Spoiler: Former AvatarsSpoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
Spoiler: Individual Avatar Pics
-
2022-01-10, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2022-01-10, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
- Location
- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: Keen rapier
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
Spoiler: Former AvatarsSpoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
Spoiler: Individual Avatar Pics
-
2022-01-10, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Tula, Russia
- Gender
-
2022-01-10, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
The entire thread is about "how could my player have gotten this result legally?" Just because some people wouldn't do it doesn't mean the player didn't, and it's a perfectly valid response to the question asked. The player could have made a Large (or Huge) +1 morphing/keen arrow and gotten somewhere around the price listed in the OP. Did he? Dunno. But he could've.
Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2022-01-10 at 03:03 PM.
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2022-01-10, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Oregon
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
There are lots of 3rd party books that add cheap non-magical weapon properties, I wouldn't be too surprised if they found one of those. People have also mentioned their players finding things on the DnD wiki, which has tons of unmarked homebrew but being a "wiki" sounds like a reliable source.
Fizban's Tweaks and Brew: Google Drive (PDF), Thread
A collection of over 200 pages of individually small bans, tweaks, brews, and rule changes, usable piecemeal or nearly altogether, and even some convenient lists. Everything I've done that I'd call done enough to use in one place (plus a number of things I'm working on that aren't quite done, of course).
-
2022-01-10, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- Copenhagen
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
-
2022-01-11, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: Keen rapier
Well had the next session and got to talk to the player about it. That player directed me to the pathfinder player I mentioned already. According to them, they told the player it was 2235, not 235. When I pointed out that for a weapon to be keen, it has to be a +1 magic weapon already, so the price is actually that of a +2 weapon, they argued a bit about it. It apparently isn't a rule familiar with them and they thought you could have a keen rapier without the +1.
personally never seen that sort of rule before but to each their own. thought it might be a pf thing since I have nominal experience with it and all of what I do have is 5 years old at least. but guess not according to you guys.
First player didn't care if they had to wait for keen, just wanted to know if they could upgrade the +1 to +1 keen, or had to be a whole new sword. Was happy to hear the former.
Second player seemed okay with it too after talking about it more.
So in the end it was a miscommunication that somehow dropped 2k off, and then a rule discrepancy that explained the rest of it.
Thanks for input everyone.DnD Me
SpoilerNeutral Evil Human Sorcerer/Rogue (1st/1st Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength-13
Dexterity-12
Constitution-12
Intelligence-15
Wisdom-11
Charisma-13
-
2022-01-11, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
- Location
- Emerald City, Oz
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
That's actually ringing a bell. Check out the Affordable Arcana series of books by pfsrd20 publishing. Fairly sure one of them came up with a cheap "magic weapon" enhancement that meant you could have magic weapons that didn't need that initial +1 before you could tack on weapon enhancements. Might be misremembering.
"There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."
~ Ernest Hemingway
2021 2022 2023 2024
Dwarf Magus (Deep Marshal) spell list
-
2022-01-12, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- Round Rock, TX
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
Amulet of mighty fists also lets you add weapon special abilities without an enhancement bonus.
Avatar by Qwernt
-
2022-01-14, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
Don't know anything of the sort, but then again, I find it impossible to keep track of or know every 3.5 splat book from cover to cover. Good for you if you can.
Maybe, but a rapier was not an unarmed strike or a natural weapon, last time I checked.Last edited by Arkhios; 2022-01-15 at 03:10 PM.
-
2022-01-14, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: Keen rapier
Graft weapon allows you to stack natural weapon effects and anything that affects manufactured weapons. So if you had, say, a necklace of natural weapons that was keyed to your natural weapon rapier, you could affect it whenever you manifested graft weapon onto it.
Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2022-01-14 at 02:29 PM.
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2022-01-14, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
-
2022-01-14, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: Keen rapier
That's a somewhat common houserule, I sometimes apply it myself, but a houserule nonetheless. Its intended to give access to the 'does cool stuff' part of magic weapons and armor without getting the marginal attack and damage bonuses, in order to lower the costs and make such things more accessible at lower levels.
But yeah, its a houserule that requires a substantially different reading of the rules and results in a noticeable change in gameplay, and thus would need to be something the DM decided to institute and then told the players about, which didn't happen since you're the DM and would therefore be the first to know about it.