Mind Sharpener in late game?

[Silpharon]

Hey folks,

I'm taking Artificer only to level 5, and thus have very limited infusions (4 known, 2 active). I'm trying to decide if Mind Sharpener is worth keeping in the known list. My long term build is rather complex, but suffice to say, it already has a lot of reaction-use abilities (and Con save proficiency):

- War Wizard's Arcane Deflection
- Shield and Absorb Elements
- Possible items like Guardian Emblem or Atlas of Endless Horizons

Concentration spells I intend to learn/use:
- Haste (biggest motivator)
- Web
- Bless
- Darkness/Silence
- Blur

But what's the likelihood a reaction will still be available when I take damage and fail the con saving throw?

On attacks, if possible I'd use Arcane Deflection or Shield to block the attack entirely. On crits, I'd likely prefer to use my reaction with Guardian Emblem (if available). There's a gray area in there, but with heavy armor, shield, and maybe a haste buff, my base AC will be 22+ late game before using reaction skills.

On spell saves, again, Arcane Deflection or Absorb Elements seem to be better options. Unfortunately even if I make the save I could still take half damage (I won't have Evasion), but isn't that better than full damage and a guaranteed concentration success (if the proficient con save fails)?

If the item really is clutch late game on other casters, maybe I'd make it and hand it off in place of my Homunculus Servant, but that Servant sure can be useful too...

Thoughts?

[Mastikator]

Very unlikely unless you specifically save your reaction for it, but that probably means you'd take more actual damage. Haste is the only spell I'd bother having mind sharpener for in the first place. If you could somehow access twinned haste I'd say mind sharpener becomes super important.

[Psyren]

I wouldn't take Mind Sharpener early on, at least not for yourself. Remember you need to take 22+ damage in one hit to even have to roll above the base Concentration DC of 10; that's highly unlikely to happen early-game, and even if it does, you're proficient in Constitution saves.

If you have a different party member for whom concentration is extremely important, e.g. a gish who will be on the frontline with low AC like a Swords Bard, it might be worthwhile on them.

Which Artificer are you?

[Chaos Jackal]

Given the artificer's innate Con proficiency, SADness allowing them to invest at least a bit in Con if desired and ability to create an amulet of health if so starved for Con, as well as their access to a number of reactions (most importantly Flash of Genius) the Mind Sharpener really isn't worth it on the artificer that picked it up unless they both have abysman Con and can't Replicate, can't attune to or don't want an amulet of health.

The Mind Sharpener is something you'll give to the party's other spellcaster who for whatever reason doesn't have Resilient or War Caster (maybe the game is featless, maybe their build can't afford it or they were planning to take it later, maybe they picked Resilient for Dex or Wis and there's not enough room for War Caster too), like a ranger with a CBE+SS build that wants to keep up their conjure animals too. It's not something you'll personally ever need outside of quite specific circumstances, and it's generally not a good infusion unless you have a party member who will specifically benefit from it. Even then, there are other infusions to consider, but at least it's a decent option.

But if you're just thinking about personal usage, no, you don't benefit much if at all from your own Mind Sharpener.

[Silpharon]

Very unlikely unless you specifically save your reaction for it, but that probably means you'd take more actual damage. Haste is the only spell I'd bother having mind sharpener for in the first place. If you could somehow access twinned haste I'd say mind sharpener becomes super important.

Yep, agree. Twinned haste isn't in the cards presently.

I wouldn't take Mind Sharpener early on, at least not for yourself. Remember you need to take 22+ damage in one hit to even have to roll above the base Concentration DC of 10; that's highly unlikely to happen early-game, and even if it does, you're proficient in Constitution saves.

If you have a different party member for whom concentration is extremely important, e.g. a gish who will be on the frontline with low AC like a Swords Bard, it might be worthwhile on them.

Which Artificer are you?

Armorer, but only go level 5. I don't believe there's a party member with low AC this game (heavy armor cleric, high dex rogue, warlock with 1st level fighter). To be fair, I'm thinking late game when damage will be higher. I have to lock in known infusions now.

Given the artificer's innate Con proficiency, SADness allowing them to invest at least a bit in Con if desired and ability to create an amulet of health if so starved for Con, as well as their access to a number of reactions (most importantly Flash of Genius) the Mind Sharpener really isn't worth it on the artificer that picked it up unless they both have abysman Con and can't Replicate, can't attune to or don't want an amulet of health.

The Mind Sharpener is something you'll give to the party's other spellcaster who for whatever reason doesn't have Resilient or War Caster (maybe the game is featless, maybe their build can't afford it or they were planning to take it later, maybe they picked Resilient for Dex or Wis and there's not enough room for War Caster too), like a ranger with a CBE+SS build that wants to keep up their conjure animals too. It's not something you'll personally ever need outside of quite specific circumstances, and it's generally not a good infusion unless you have a party member who will specifically benefit from it. Even then, there are other infusions to consider, but at least it's a decent option.

But if you're just thinking about personal usage, no, you don't benefit much if at all from your own Mind Sharpener.

I'm only taking Artificer to level 5 (Armorer, Infiltrator) before multiclassing out. War Wizard provides a similar reaction to flash of genius, though with an AC bump instead of ability bump. I do plan to search for an Amulet of Health in my campaign (to tank occasionally with Guardian mode).

The other two spellcasters are a warlock that picked a level in fighter at 1st level (con saves), and a backline cleric in heavy armor.

[Psyren]

Oh I see - because you're multiclassing you'll be stuck with whatever infusions you selected early for the rest of your career.

Then yes, Mind Sharpener is good late-game (especially if you plan on tanking while concentrating on things), but you won't need to have it prepared at low levels.

[Chaos Jackal]

I'm only taking Artificer to level 5 (Armorer, Infiltrator) before multiclassing out. War Wizard provides a similar reaction to flash of genius, though with an AC bump instead of ability bump. I do plan to search for an Amulet of Health in my campaign (to tank occasionally with Guardian mode).

The other two spellcasters are a warlock that picked a level in fighter at 1st level (con saves), and a backline cleric in heavy armor.

Yeah, you mentioned it. I was being more general in my remarks; the take for your case is essentially "did you dump Con", because otherwise you still have powerful reactions, can still boost your saves with a class feature, if you get to a high enough level you'll even gain bonuses by default whenever you concentrate... with a +2 Con modifier and Arcane Deflection you can already make the basic concentration save automatically, and it'll only get easier as you level, not to mention the best way of maintaining concentration is to not get hit, a way you can easily support.

So what I said about the Mind Sharpener still applies. You don't really get any mileage out of it yourself.

On the other hand, even in the backline and with heavy armor (and I'd wager a shield) a cleric can certainly benefit from the Mind Sharpener. Most clerics aren't exactly starved for reactions, and unless it's a blaster cleric they'll almost certainly have some buff up at every fight they can afford to (even blaster clerics likely will), so they definitely want to keep their concentration. If the cleric doesn't want to pick War Caster or Resilient: Con, you can keep the Mind Sharpener for them if they want a failsafe for their concentration. Otherwise, just grab something else.

[stoutstien]

Mind sharpener is an interesting infusion. You hope to never need it but when you do it can be a huge resource saver for the party. There is the odd side case of concentration checks not directly caused by damage which is table dependant but could come up.

**I know you said you aren't sticking to artificial long enough for flash of genius but just to show you how powerful it is if you go through the list of effects that can bypass a strong concentration saves by landing effects that can just directly cause it to drop you can see why having a +5 to saves as a reaction for anyone near you is so big. There even a pretty long list of 1st lv spells that can bypass the best concentration save values.**

The real question is how much competition the party's attunement slots and reaction will have.

[Silpharon]

Mind sharpener is an interesting infusion. You hope to never need it but when you do it can be a huge resource saver for the party. There is the odd side case of concentration checks not directly caused by damage which is table dependant but could come up.

**I know you said you aren't sticking to artificial long enough for flash of genius but just to show you how powerful it is if you go through the list of effects that can bypass a strong concentration saves by landing effects that can just directly cause it to drop you can see why having a +5 to saves as a reaction for anyone near you is so big. There even a pretty long list of 1st lv spells that can bypass the best concentration save values.**

The real question is how much competition the party's attunement slots and reaction will have.

Thanks for the feedback. Mind Sharpener doesn't require attunement, which is really nice. Arcane Deflection gives me unlimited +4 saving throw reactions, but I agree +5 on anyone nearby is stronger. What did you mean by 1st level spells bypassing best concentration values? Are you thinking stuff like sleep?

[stoutstien]

Thanks for the feedback. Mind Sharpener doesn't require attunement, which is really nice. Arcane Deflection gives me unlimited +4 saving throw reactions, but I agree +5 on anyone nearby is stronger. What did you mean by 1st level spells bypassing best concentration values? Are you thinking stuff like sleep?

My mistake on attunement. Was thinking about the spell refuel ring.

Lv 1 Spells that can bypass concentration saves: sleep, tasha's hideous laughter, and command *ymmv*. I'm a big fan of THL for this. Pretty much anything that can cause incapacitation for any amount of time instantly breaks concentration.

[Aalbatr0ss]

It might be worth hanging onto the known infusion for mind sharpener, for the days you tank in guardian. It’s insurance against blowing a low DC con save, getting magic missile-d or sleet stormed. It’ll save you blowing spell slots on shield or AA for minor hits.

There may come a time when your concentration is life-or-death for other party members. Maybe you’re concentrating on fly for multiple allies? Conjure elemental? It’s a nice tool to have in the toolbox. There are situations where you don’t want to risk rolling a 1 or 2 even if you have a solid AC/con save.

[sethdmichaels]

a cleric can certainly benefit from the Mind Sharpener.

if you've got a cleric or druid casting Bless, Bane, Spirit Guardians, Faerie Fire, or another combat-shaping concentration spell, the Mind Sharpener seems like it'd be a really useful failsafe.

[Silpharon]

My mistake on attunement. Was thinking about the spell refuel ring.

Lv 1 Spells that can bypass concentration saves: sleep, tasha's hideous laughter, and command *ymmv*. I'm a big fan of THL for this. Pretty much anything that can cause incapacitation for any amount of time instantly breaks concentration.

Very interesting, thanks for the clarification. I hadn't looked at THL in that light before.

It might be worth hanging onto the known infusion for mind sharpener, for the days you tank in guardian. It’s insurance against blowing a low DC con save, getting magic missile-d or sleet stormed.

Yeah, that's mostly what I'm worried about. If I nat 1 on the save for necrotic damage, there's no point in using Arcane Deflection. At that point it'd be better to hold the reaction for Mind Sharpener.

if you've got a cleric or druid casting Bless, Bane, Spirit Guardians, Faerie Fire, or another combat-shaping concentration spell, the Mind Sharpener seems like it'd be a really useful failsafe.

Ok ok, I'm convinced to keep it in standby. :P

I'm actually going to drop Enhanced Weapon (gasp) and instead use Forge Cleric's level 1 feature to keep my Lightning Launcher at +1. My infusion list will forever be locked as:

Homunculus Servant (typically active)
Mind Sharpener
Spellwrought Tattoo Gift of Alacrity (typically active)
Spellwrought Tattoo Find Familiar*

* Yes, I know I can get this via Wizard 1, but there are thematic elements at play for these tattoos.

[Chaos Jackal]

Yeah, that's mostly what I'm worried about. If I nat 1 on the save for necrotic damage, there's no point in using Arcane Deflection. At that point it'd be better to hold the reaction for Mind Sharpener.

Unless you're houseruling it, natural 1s aren't automatic fails on saves in 5e, which is why in a previous post I mentioned that with a +2 Con modifier and Arcane Deflection you automatically make the DC10 save, and that increases later on. If you're houseruling it, it's an insurance, but frankly I wouldn't lock in an infusion for the sake of a 5% chance that might not even be available because your reaction was already used for something else. The reaction cost is the biggest dealbreaker; you may shield the big attack or absorb elements the dragon breath, then get hit by an AoE and your Mind Sharpener is unavailable. It's really not a good failsafe for you, even if you do play with autofail saves on a 1 and are worried about those rare instances.

Ok ok, I'm convinced to keep it in standby. :P

I do hope your cleric friend will make something of the ASI you saved them.

Good luck.