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Thread: Reworking Shadow Blade
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2022-01-19, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Reworking Shadow Blade
How to rework or refluff lvl 2 spell Shadow Blade to deal radiant dmg?
Just swapping dmg type to radiant and reflufing the spell description and magic school to evocation seems easy enough. But the advantage in darkness and dim light part is a bit problematic. It would obviously also work like a torch but that seems like a underwhelming substitute for advantage on attack.
Thoughts?
SpoilerYou weave together threads of shadow to create a sword of solidified gloom in your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 psychic damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60). In addition, when you use the sword to attack a target that is in dim light or darkness, you make the attack roll with advantage.
If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn. Thereafter, while the spell persists, you can use a bonus action to cause the sword to reappear in your hand.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a 3rd- or 4th-level spell slot, the damage increases to 3d8. When you cast it using a 5th- or 6th-level spell slot, the damage increases to 4d8. When you cast it using a spell slot of 7th level or higher, the damage increases to 5d8.Life before death.
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2022-01-19, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-01-19, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
I'm not sure anything else is required. Radiant damage is a better damage type (for PCs, I should add), so the benefit is your opponent isn't resistant. That said, if you do want a benefit, perhaps have it give a radius of disadvantage to attack for vampires, wraiths, and other sunlight-sensitive creatures.
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2022-01-19, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-01-20, 02:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
You could have it shed sunlight in a 5' radius and dim light 5' beyond that.
I'm not sure anything else is required. Radiant damage is a better damage type (for PCs, I should add), so the benefit is your opponent isn't resistant. That said, if you do want a benefit, perhaps have it give a radius of disadvantage to attack for vampires, wraiths, and other sunlight-sensitive creatures.
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2022-01-20, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-01-20, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
I'd agree with the 5' sunlight suggestion if you want to boost it a bit. It isn't as generally applicable as the advantage in dim light or darkness of the shadow blade but on the other hand, against the appropriate creatures who are sensitive to sunlight, it will be particularly effective.
However, the 5' bright light, 5' dim light just makes it the equivalent of a torch since bright light doesn't do that much on its own except illuminate magical darkness.
P.S. Giving it the ability to emit sunlight does start to move it into sunblade territory though with the +2, additional damage vs undead and the much larger area of sunlight - the magic item remains better.
P.P.S. However, comparing to the 5th level Holy Weapon spell from XGtE - this spell adds 2d8 radiant damage and makes it a magical weapon - illuminates a larger area but it is regular damage and has a burst damage ability. A 5th level shadow blade does 4d8 damage - so likely strictly better.
Last comment - radiant is a useful damage type in some situations especially against undead but shadow blade does psychic damage so the difference in number of creatures resistant to the damage is likely small - radiant and psychic are both pretty decent damage types.Last edited by Keravath; 2022-01-20 at 10:01 AM.
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2022-01-20, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
I’m not sure there’s a significant difference between Psychic and Radiant for PCs.
If you’re just trying to keep the mechanical balance, forget emitting light (SB doesn’t emit darkness - nor does radiant damage in and of itself), and just have it do 2d8 Radiant damage with Advantage if the target is in Bright Light or Dim Light (in lieu of SB’s RAW dark/dim).
If the campaign skews towards Undead, or the DM feels the change to Radiant damage will be significant, drop the damage from 2d8 to 1d8.
This, to me, keeps the mechanics the same while allowing the change in damage type.
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2022-01-20, 11:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
Bright/Dim light is far easier to guarantee and work with as a PC than Dim/Darkness.
Magically adding darkness requires magical vision boosts for PCs. Magically adding light does not.
They are not symmetrical.
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2022-01-20, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
Holy Weapon still has some very distinct advantages over the 5th level shadow blade.
-last 1 hour instead of 1 minute
-can be cast upon touch target instead of only Self
-stacks onto existing weapons and their damage, including magical weapons (which are likely by the time you're casting 5th level spells)
-burst of damage and blindness
-big ol' light radius
I wasn't 100% clear on which 5th level spell option you're calling "strictly better", but I'd take Holy Weapon over a 5th level Shadowblade in almost every situation.Last edited by Guy Lombard-O; 2022-01-20 at 11:41 AM.
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2022-01-20, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-01-20, 03:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
Not in my experience. Most PCs have Darkvision, either via racial abilities, spells or magic items; and it’s used to sneak. That is, we tend not to use light when exploring, whether in a dungeon or at night.
So in my experience, it’s pretty easy to get the SB Advantage.
If you flip it, and now you need Bright Light, you throw out any sort of stealth.
But again, at least at tables I’ve played at, PCs generally try not to use light sources.
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2022-01-20, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
I would leave the advantage in dim/darkness, that actually makes more sense to me than advantage for a dark weapon in darkness. I wouldn't give it any special light radius, same as torch. And I would make a new spell, not just rework shadow blade. You could call it light blade or even... light saber.
Last edited by JLandan; 2022-01-20 at 04:01 PM.
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2022-01-20, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
What about advantage while in sunlight? Thats harder to get than dim light/darkness so you're not going to have the problem of it being too good.
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2022-01-20, 11:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-01-21, 02:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
Thank you all for the replying
How about this for a rework?
SpoilerRadiant Blade
2nd-level evocation
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: Self
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
You summon sparks of bright light that merge together to create a sword of solidified radiance in your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 radiant damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60). In addition, when you summon this sword you may create a flash of bright light that blinds everyone in a 10-foot radius on a failed Constitution save until the end of their next turn. The blade sheds bright light in a 10-foot radius and dim light for an additional 10 feet.
If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn. Thereafter, while the spell persists, you can use a bonus action to cause the sword to reappear in your hand.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a 3rd- or 4th-level spell slot, the damage increases to 3d8. When you cast it using a 5th- or 6th-level spell slot, the damage increases to 4d8. When you cast it using a spell slot of 7th level or higher, the damage increases to 5d8.Last edited by JohnDaBarr; 2022-01-21 at 05:21 AM.
Life before death.
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2022-01-21, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-01-21, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
Got a question/concern about this line:
In addition, when you summon this sword you may create a flash of bright light that blinds everyone in a 10-foot radius on a failed Constitution save until the end of their next turn.
Thereafter, while the spell persists, you can use a bonus action to cause the sword to reappear in your hand.
If it's the latter, mild concern about the spell giving you a BA AoE Blind effect. It might be fine balance wise in actual play (I'm not sure, honestly, though might be too strong), but even if it is balanced it creates a weird sort of gameplay loop where you're deliberately dropping the blade to then resummon it to your hand.
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2022-01-21, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-01-21, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
I think that works fine with the "when first casting" fix.
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2022-01-25, 12:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
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2022-01-25, 02:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
Not much, if any, am I to guess. Psychic damage is resisted usually by constructs and the number difference is small and probably completely irrelevant. It all boils down to setting specific situations and the fact that players are usually more likely to fight a golem than an angel. But even then both creatures are mostly second tier and higher encounters so a level two spells won't be the main way of dealing with said encounter.
Only thing I can remember that is immune to psychic damage on lower levels is Animated Armor and those aren't much trouble for a level 3 party.Life before death.
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2022-01-26, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reworking Shadow Blade
I don't think blinding everyone in a 10' radius is all that good.
Everyone includes yourself.