Reworking Shadow Blade

[JohnDaBarr]

How to rework or refluff lvl 2 spell Shadow Blade to deal radiant dmg?

Just swapping dmg type to radiant and reflufing the spell description and magic school to evocation seems easy enough. But the advantage in darkness and dim light part is a bit problematic. It would obviously also work like a torch but that seems like a underwhelming substitute for advantage on attack.

Thoughts?

Spoiler

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You weave together threads of shadow to create a sword of solidified gloom in your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 psychic damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60). In addition, when you use the sword to attack a target that is in dim light or darkness, you make the attack roll with advantage.

If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn. Thereafter, while the spell persists, you can use a bonus action to cause the sword to reappear in your hand.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a 3rd- or 4th-level spell slot, the damage increases to 3d8. When you cast it using a 5th- or 6th-level spell slot, the damage increases to 4d8. When you cast it using a spell slot of 7th level or higher, the damage increases to 5d8.

[Amnestic]

You could have it shed sunlight in a 5' radius and dim light 5' beyond that.

[Willie the Duck]

It would obviously also work like a torch but that seems like a underwhelming substitute for advantage on attack.
Thoughts?

I'm not sure anything else is required. Radiant damage is a better damage type (for PCs, I should add), so the benefit is your opponent isn't resistant. That said, if you do want a benefit, perhaps have it give a radius of disadvantage to attack for vampires, wraiths, and other sunlight-sensitive creatures.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm not sure anything else is required. Radiant damage is a better damage type (for PCs, I should add), so the benefit is your opponent isn't resistant. That said, if you do want a benefit, perhaps have it give a radius of disadvantage to attack for vampires, wraiths, and other sunlight-sensitive creatures.

I like that idea.

[JohnDaBarr]

You could have it shed sunlight in a 5' radius and dim light 5' beyond that.

Yup, that could work.

I'm not sure anything else is required. Radiant damage is a better damage type (for PCs, I should add), so the benefit is your opponent isn't resistant. That said, if you do want a benefit, perhaps have it give a radius of disadvantage to attack for vampires, wraiths, and other sunlight-sensitive creatures.

Mostly agree with this

Thx

[Pildion]

I'm not sure anything else is required. Radiant damage is a better damage type (for PCs, I should add), so the benefit is your opponent isn't resistant. That said, if you do want a benefit, perhaps have it give a radius of disadvantage to attack for vampires, wraiths, and other sunlight-sensitive creatures.

This, with Radiant damage being so much better for PCs, I would just leave it at that, maybe add the 5' bright light, 5' dim light like Amnestic said.

[Keravath]

I'd agree with the 5' sunlight suggestion if you want to boost it a bit. It isn't as generally applicable as the advantage in dim light or darkness of the shadow blade but on the other hand, against the appropriate creatures who are sensitive to sunlight, it will be particularly effective.

However, the 5' bright light, 5' dim light just makes it the equivalent of a torch since bright light doesn't do that much on its own except illuminate magical darkness.

P.S. Giving it the ability to emit sunlight does start to move it into sunblade territory though with the +2, additional damage vs undead and the much larger area of sunlight - the magic item remains better.

P.P.S. However, comparing to the 5th level Holy Weapon spell from XGtE - this spell adds 2d8 radiant damage and makes it a magical weapon - illuminates a larger area but it is regular damage and has a burst damage ability. A 5th level shadow blade does 4d8 damage - so likely strictly better.

Last comment - radiant is a useful damage type in some situations especially against undead but shadow blade does psychic damage so the difference in number of creatures resistant to the damage is likely small - radiant and psychic are both pretty decent damage types.

[RSP]

I’m not sure there’s a significant difference between Psychic and Radiant for PCs.

If you’re just trying to keep the mechanical balance, forget emitting light (SB doesn’t emit darkness - nor does radiant damage in and of itself), and just have it do 2d8 Radiant damage with Advantage if the target is in Bright Light or Dim Light (in lieu of SB’s RAW dark/dim).

If the campaign skews towards Undead, or the DM feels the change to Radiant damage will be significant, drop the damage from 2d8 to 1d8.

This, to me, keeps the mechanics the same while allowing the change in damage type.

[Yakk]

Bright/Dim light is far easier to guarantee and work with as a PC than Dim/Darkness.

Magically adding darkness requires magical vision boosts for PCs. Magically adding light does not.

They are not symmetrical.

[Guy Lombard-O]

comparing to the 5th level Holy Weapon spell from XGtE - this spell adds 2d8 radiant damage and makes it a magical weapon - illuminates a larger area but it is regular damage and has a burst damage ability. A 5th level shadow blade does 4d8 damage - so likely strictly better.

Holy Weapon still has some very distinct advantages over the 5th level shadow blade.
-last 1 hour instead of 1 minute
-can be cast upon touch target instead of only Self
-stacks onto existing weapons and their damage, including magical weapons (which are likely by the time you're casting 5th level spells)
-burst of damage and blindness
-big ol' light radius

I wasn't 100% clear on which 5th level spell option you're calling "strictly better", but I'd take Holy Weapon over a 5th level Shadowblade in almost every situation.

[greenstone]

How to rework or refluff lvl 2 spell Shadow Blade to deal radiant dmg?

Use flame blade instead? Change the damage from fire to radiant and drop the duration, then allow classes other than druid access to it.

[RSP]

Bright/Dim light is far easier to guarantee and work with as a PC than Dim/Darkness.

Magically adding darkness requires magical vision boosts for PCs. Magically adding light does not.

They are not symmetrical.

Not in my experience. Most PCs have Darkvision, either via racial abilities, spells or magic items; and it’s used to sneak. That is, we tend not to use light when exploring, whether in a dungeon or at night.

So in my experience, it’s pretty easy to get the SB Advantage.

If you flip it, and now you need Bright Light, you throw out any sort of stealth.

But again, at least at tables I’ve played at, PCs generally try not to use light sources.

[JLandan]

I would leave the advantage in dim/darkness, that actually makes more sense to me than advantage for a dark weapon in darkness. I wouldn't give it any special light radius, same as torch. And I would make a new spell, not just rework shadow blade. You could call it light blade or even... light saber.

[solidork]

What about advantage while in sunlight? Thats harder to get than dim light/darkness so you're not going to have the problem of it being too good.

[RSP]

I would leave the advantage in dim/darkness, that actually makes more sense to me than advantage for a dark weapon in darkness. I wouldn't give it any special light radius, same as torch. And I would make a new spell, not just rework shadow blade. You could call it light blade or even... light saber.

If it has the light giving properties of a torch, it can never actually get the Advantage from the target being in Darkness/Dim Lighting.

[JohnDaBarr]

Thank you all for the replying

How about this for a rework?

Spoiler

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Radiant Blade
2nd-level evocation

Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: Self
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

You summon sparks of bright light that merge together to create a sword of solidified radiance in your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 radiant damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60). In addition, when you summon this sword you may create a flash of bright light that blinds everyone in a 10-foot radius on a failed Constitution save until the end of their next turn. The blade sheds bright light in a 10-foot radius and dim light for an additional 10 feet.

If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn. Thereafter, while the spell persists, you can use a bonus action to cause the sword to reappear in your hand.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a 3rd- or 4th-level spell slot, the damage increases to 3d8. When you cast it using a 5th- or 6th-level spell slot, the damage increases to 4d8. When you cast it using a spell slot of 7th level or higher, the damage increases to 5d8.

[Pildion]

Thank you all for the replying

How about this for a rework?

Spoiler

Show

Radiant Blade
2nd-level evocation

Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: Self
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

You summon sparks of bright light that merge together to create a sword of solidified radiance in your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 radiant damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60). In addition, when you summon this sword you may create a flash of bright light that blinds everyone in a 10-foot radius on a failed Constitution save until the end of their next turn. The blade sheds bright light in a 10-foot radius and dim light for an additional 10 feet.

If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn. Thereafter, while the spell persists, you can use a bonus action to cause the sword to reappear in your hand.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a 3rd- or 4th-level spell slot, the damage increases to 3d8. When you cast it using a 5th- or 6th-level spell slot, the damage increases to 4d8. When you cast it using a spell slot of 7th level or higher, the damage increases to 5d8.

Looks fine to me, JohnDaBarr.

[Amnestic]

Thank you all for the replying

How about this for a rework?

Got a question/concern about this line:

In addition, when you summon this sword you may create a flash of bright light that blinds everyone in a 10-foot radius on a failed Constitution save until the end of their next turn.

Because "summon this sword" could mean when you first cast the spell or it could mean:

Thereafter, while the spell persists, you can use a bonus action to cause the sword to reappear in your hand.

If it's the former, I would change the wording to "when you first cast the spell" instead of "when you summon this sword".

If it's the latter, mild concern about the spell giving you a BA AoE Blind effect. It might be fine balance wise in actual play (I'm not sure, honestly, though might be too strong), but even if it is balanced it creates a weird sort of gameplay loop where you're deliberately dropping the blade to then resummon it to your hand.

[JohnDaBarr]

Got a question/concern about this line:


Because "summon this sword" could mean when you first cast the spell or it could mean:



If it's the former, I would change the wording to "when you first cast the spell" instead of "when you summon this sword".

If it's the latter, mild concern about the spell giving you a BA AoE Blind effect. It might be fine balance wise in actual play (I'm not sure, honestly, though might be too strong), but even if it is balanced it creates a weird sort of gameplay loop where you're deliberately dropping the blade to then resummon it to your hand.

Yeah, I was aiming for "when you first cast the spell"

A simple one turn Blindness isn't too much OP and could offer at least one round of advantage while Shadow Blade could "technically" offer advantage for ten rounds.

[JLandan]

I think that works fine with the "when first casting" fix.

[Witty Username]

I'm not sure anything else is required. Radiant damage is a better damage type (for PCs, I should add), so the benefit is your opponent isn't resistant. That said, if you do want a benefit, perhaps have it give a radius of disadvantage to attack for vampires, wraiths, and other sunlight-sensitive creatures.

How many things resist psychic damage? I agree that radiant damage is good but I am not sure how much better than psychic it is.

[JohnDaBarr]

How many things resist psychic damage? I agree that radiant damage is good but I am not sure how much better than psychic it is.

Not much, if any, am I to guess. Psychic damage is resisted usually by constructs and the number difference is small and probably completely irrelevant. It all boils down to setting specific situations and the fact that players are usually more likely to fight a golem than an angel. But even then both creatures are mostly second tier and higher encounters so a level two spells won't be the main way of dealing with said encounter.

Only thing I can remember that is immune to psychic damage on lower levels is Animated Armor and those aren't much trouble for a level 3 party.

[Yakk]

I don't think blinding everyone in a 10' radius is all that good.

Everyone includes yourself.