Hierophant spellcaster level?

[schreier]

I know it does not advance the "true" spellcasting level (no new spells, etc..), but it says "Levels in the hierophant prestige class, even though they do not advance spell progression in the character’s base class, still stack with the character’s base spellcasting levels to determine caster level."

How does that work with multiple base classes (both arcane and divine)? It reads to me like it should increase all spellcasting levels for all classes for purposes of effects, but I've never thought about it before so just wanted to reach out and get others' thoughts.

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

One can assume that it advances the caster level of the prerequisite casting (Divine), but since it doesn't specifically state that, and doesn't state otherwise, I would say that it advances both.

Say you're a 13th level Cleric, who also happens to have taken 3 levels in Wizard. You meet the prerequisite of 7th level divine casting, and took a meta-magic feat a long time ago. When you take 4 levels in Hierophant, it is safe to assume that you are now an Cleric with a caster level of 17 with access to divine magic up to 7th level, as well as a Wizard with a caster level of 7 with access to arcane magic up to 2nd level.

In the end, unless you are for some reason using a Gestalt character, I see no reason you wouldn't be permitted to gain that benefit for both of your casting classes. By the time you meet the requirements for the prestige class, you will at most have very few levels in another class.

Spoiler: Only reasonable utilization of the function

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The only reasoning I see fit to attempt to utilize this function would be on a 40th level npc that has 20 levels in both an Arcane casting class and a Divine casting class, that way you advance the caster level of both classes without dabbling much in the creation of 10th+ level magics.

Unless you thought it'd be useful to have the duration of a few 1st level arcane spells increased (Mage Armor, Shield, Alarm, Mount, or Disguise Self are the only ones I think would merit that), but you'll be over 13th level by the time you qualify, so you have access to far better spells at that point.

[Biggus]

You could argue from a strict RAW perspective that it advances all spellcasting, but to me it seems very clear that the RAI is that it just advances a single divine casting class. On the other hand, the lack of spells-per-day advancement makes Hierophant a pretty terrible class except for epic characters, so allowing it to progress all classes might actually be more balanced.

[schreier]

My thought in the past was that it would only apply to the divine class, which made it seemingly objectively weaker than archmage - which struck me as strange for two prestige classes printed in the same book at the same time. The only way it balances is this interpretation, which is only better in limited circumstances. Granted, those circumstances are clearly not in the contemplated scope of the regular non-epic 3.5 game, but it is at least an advantage.

[Darg]

My thought in the past was that it would only apply to the divine class, which made it seemingly objectively weaker than archmage - which struck me as strange for two prestige classes printed in the same book at the same time. The only way it balances is this interpretation, which is only better in limited circumstances. Granted, those circumstances are clearly not in the contemplated scope of the regular non-epic 3.5 game, but it is at least an advantage.

Archmage technically doesn't progress caster level automatically by RAW. All you get is spells per day and spells known. You have to spend High Arcana on that. Arcane trickster only gets spells per day. Eldritch knight only gets spells per day and caster level, but no spells known. Loremaster gets all 3. Mystic theurge only gets spells per day and caster level, it doesn't learn new spells. Red wizard is spells per day and caster level only. Thaumaturgist is spells per day and caster level.

As you can see, loremaster is the only one that fully progresses the base class. PRCs were intended to be altered for your game/setting. Saying they all get full casting progression doesn't hurt anything really, and future PRC templates relaxed the specificity of how spell progression worked anyway. Technically, if Archmage gets caster levels without spending high arcana then hierophant can absolutely progress spellcasting.

[schreier]

I think that overly narrow interpretation on caster level gain is not used by anyone. Here is a solid discussion: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...ster-Level-3-5

It is clear that Hierophant is different for some reason, but it's specific implementation is not clear which is why I started the thread.