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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    DigoDragon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    Or sometimes you missed a session and come back to "We TPKed throwing grenades at police helicopters*. We're playing D&D now.... We really need a cleric."
    Ohhhh... yeah I been there once. Condolences. Sometimes you just never understand what their train of thought was that led to such an end.

    (at least in my case I do like playing the healer).


    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    Getting machine guns into an AAA zone is the real head scratcher. Sounds like a job for the palming troll adept specialist.
    I had a group once that figured this part out-- they stole a UPS truck and smuggled the guns inside packages as part of a Trojan horse delivery scheme.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Telok's Avatar

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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Ohhhh... yeah I been there once. Condolences. Sometimes you just never understand what their train of thought was that led to such an end.

    (at least in my case I do like playing the healer).

    I had a group once that figured this part out-- they stole a UPS truck and smuggled the guns inside packages as part of a Trojan horse delivery scheme.
    I think they jacked a catering delivery van. Got there, kicked open the doors & started spraying lead. You know, basic d&d dungeon tactics.

    They sort of regretted the cleric. Thr elf domain got true strike as a divine spell & a bow feat, craft wand, multishot for three arrows with one roll, a fancied up bow, dmm extend (not persist, we weren't that cheesy), reach spell revenance & revivify. Did no in combat healing unless you count revenance. Also a cartoonishly elf racist who claimed it was lesser races privilege to die for him.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    I often refer to that role as being "The Adult". :3

    I personally feel that playing a generalist just to keep them out of trouble makes playing the character a bit frustrating. Babysitting is not a glamorous job. Sometimes you just gotta step back (to a safe distance) and let them take the aggro danger.

    Outside that specific situation, there are good reasons to play generalists. Especially when the party splits up, you can fill in roles that went to the other group.
    I don't mind supporting the party and directing their recklessness in more productive directions. Unfortunately sometimes there's only so far you can step back. I play my support-generalists a lot like the Queen in chess. Preserve the best opportunities for yourself and direct everyone else in a more useful manner.

    But in reference to the "missed a session now you're dead", I don't play with those DMs anymore. I don't care how the DM has to handwaive it, unless I explicitly said "yeah if I'm not here run my character as normal and I'll live with that." but I find most "Oh yeah the Adult wasn't here so the party did the dumb and now you're dead." to be one of the most aggravating forms of DMing.

    I don't mind being the adult in the party, but I shouldn't have to be the adult at the table.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    I think I gravitate toward “handful of broadly useful skills”. Polymorph, 101 uses for Disintegrate, apply a buff to someone else’s roll of any skill, etc. With a bit of fetish for getting “telekinetic hands” types of ability.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Telok's Avatar

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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by False God View Post
    ...but I find most "Oh yeah the Adult wasn't here so the party did the dumb and now you're dead." to be one of the most aggravating forms of DMing.
    You can stop trying to blame the DM for mine. That was (and I'm sure will be again because thats the way they are) completely typical of those players.

    Besides, my character lived on quite happy about never being at the scene of the crimes. A side benefit of covering all the party holes (so many holes, until one of them died and rolled a rigger my pc was the only one that could drive), not having to be super good at shoot-n-stab. Had a gun & shock glove because Shadowrun, but only used them once in a half dozen runs. One bullet might have almost hit someone. Still got paid tho.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    I think they jacked a catering delivery van. Got there, kicked open the doors & started spraying lead. You know, basic d&d dungeon tactics.
    AAA zones are surrounded with gated checkpoints that check IDs something fierce. Sounds like a weird matter of GM handling.
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    AAA zones are surrounded with gated checkpoints that check IDs something fierce. Sounds like a weird matter of GM handling.
    What makes you think I'd know? I missed the tpk session. It happened something like 15 years ago. You can leave off the analysis, no need for blame casting, don't bother filing an after action report. By now its just a nice story that can be used to illustrate a few points.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    You can stop trying to blame the DM for mine. That was (and I'm sure will be again because thats the way they are) completely typical of those players.
    Huh? I was talking about my past DM. Absolutely was his fault with the way he run his games.
    Knowledge brings the sting of disillusionment, but the pain teaches perspective.
    "You know it's all fake right?"
    "...yeah, but it makes me feel better."

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    You can stop trying to blame the DM for mine. That was (and I'm sure will be again because thats the way they are) completely typical of those players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    What makes you think I'd know? I missed the tpk session. It happened something like 15 years ago. You can leave off the analysis, no need for blame casting, don't bother filing an after action report. By now its just a nice story that can be used to illustrate a few points.
    I don't think people are blaming/attacking your GM or playgroup if you bring up a scenario that sounds weird in a public forum you're going to get a couple of comments on it, that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Wind View Post
    If it's obvious what action to take on my turn, I don't really need to be there. So, something with interesting options. Generalists usually have more options.
    Even specialists have options though. Your action every turn might be "I attack and attempt to grapple" but that still leaves questions about which target, from what angle, how you're getting in position, which ally needs help etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I don't think people are blaming/attacking your GM or playgroup if you bring up a scenario that sounds weird in a public forum you're going to get a couple of comments on it, that's all.
    Sorry guys, gotten a bit twitchy about it. Last few years has seen pretty much my every mention of a game or session devolve into a sort of "nobody would ever ever do that! pics or it didn't happen!" massive over-analysis debate that then concludes everything is always 100% the DM's fault or else I'm lying.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    "Everything is the GMs Fault" is the unofficial mantra of this board......
    *This Space Available*

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    It’s Shadowrun, the players choose Suicide By Adventure for their characters. I was just noting that some setting lore was overlooked which would have shifted the location of the party’s demise, not that the GM is obligated to stop the players from marching their characters into a buzzsaw.
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    I think they jacked a catering delivery van. Got there, kicked open the doors & started spraying lead. You know, basic d&d dungeon tactics.
    Ah yes, the most delicious grand theft auto that the party can perform. XD

    PCs that are skilled in fencing goods could make some extra cred selling the food, if it's of real quality. This is something I thing a generalist can handle. I don't see PCs specializing in fencing.

    Well, maybe the sword style they do.



    Quote Originally Posted by False God View Post
    I don't mind being the adult in the party, but I shouldn't have to be the adult at the table.
    Ah, yeah, that's a bad situation that warrants walking away from.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    AAA zones are surrounded with gated checkpoints that check IDs something fierce. Sounds like a weird matter of GM handling.
    This is where a specialist face can shine. The weakest link in any security is the people.

    Flash the ID quickly, complain that checkpoint traffic is making you late to a wealthy so-and-so's party, you're gonna mention their names as why, and get them to quickly let you through. This can work especially well if your job really does take you to some rich person's party. :3
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    This is where a specialist face can shine. The weakest link in any security is the people.

    Flash the ID quickly, complain that checkpoint traffic is making you late to a wealthy so-and-so's party, you're gonna mention their names as why, and get them to quickly let you through. This can work especially well if your job really does take you to some rich person's party. :3
    Rich person’s party past a scanner checkpoint that runs biometrics and has a looksee through the walls of your van. There’s gear in Shadowrun you could sneak past this checkpoint but it’s far from default gear. The same to be said of the quality of fake ID you’d need to reliably pass the checkpoint. Per the default setting these things take time to acquire, you don’t up and decide to raid an AAA zone over the weekend.
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    Rich person’s party past a scanner checkpoint that runs biometrics and has a looksee through the walls of your van. There’s gear in Shadowrun you could sneak past this checkpoint but it’s far from default gear. The same to be said of the quality of fake ID you’d need to reliably pass the checkpoint. Per the default setting these things take time to acquire, you don’t up and decide to raid an AAA zone over the weekend.
    I don't know how Telok's group handled it, but I'm just speaking in general terms about getting through a check point.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by False God View Post
    But in reference to the "missed a session now you're dead", I don't play with those DMs anymore. I don't care how the DM has to handwaive it, unless I explicitly said "yeah if I'm not here run my character as normal and I'll live with that." but I find most "Oh yeah the Adult wasn't here so the party did the dumb and now you're dead." to be one of the most aggravating forms of DMing.

    I don't mind being the adult in the party, but I shouldn't have to be the adult at the table.
    How do you feel about the described situation, which is closer to "the party refuses to roll new characters to replace the ones they lost doing the dumb, so we're not playing anymore"?
    Non est salvatori salvator,
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauncymancer View Post
    How do you feel about the described situation, which is closer to "the party refuses to roll new characters to replace the ones they lost doing the dumb, so we're not playing anymore"?
    Then I guess we're not playing anymore. *shrug*
    Knowledge brings the sting of disillusionment, but the pain teaches perspective.
    "You know it's all fake right?"
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    I don't know how Telok's group handled it, but I'm just speaking in general terms about getting through a check point.
    Ya know, the story is worth telling again...
    Spoiler
    Show

    Group: Phys-ad ninja type w/custom double barrel shotgun. Wired reflexes full-auto gun bunny. Sniper. Double laser pistol gun bunny. Machine gun drone rigger. Elf face conjurer w/focus & 7d elemental & skillwire-5 + 10 chips in a switcher & SIN & day job magic consultant & more than 6 contacts.

    Bunch of combat monsters with a couple stealth experts. I covered everything else & contact contracted out the decking.

    After several runs involving mostly stealth or gunplay we get one to put 4 assistant/advisor type people in a mayor race campaign into the hospital untill after the election. Election is in 3 weeks, contracted to complete the run in 10 days.

    1. Tracked down target & got they used the bus to go to work. Jacked a van with a sliding side door. Rolled up to the bus stop next morning & 3 gun bunnies blew his legs off.

    2. Found a campaign event next evening. Offloaded a pile of looted pistols to a biker gang & paid them to drive by shoot at our signal. Sniper shot target in the shoulder during the drive by and filled all 10 health boxes.

    3. Target was a bit paranoid. Personal car, travel between secure garages, no public appearances, 30th storey apartment with good building security. Then I noticed the rigger drones could carry 120kg of gear. Got some base jumping gear, sent ninja to the roof to secure then ferried 2 more gun bunnies up. I stayed in a separate car down the block waiting for the 'need backup' signal. Unsupervised, they murder the guy in his sleep, steal everything they can grab fast, and chuck thermite grenades in as they jump out the window.

    4. This is the session I missed, and thus my character survived. It was like 4 days into the run. What I remember:
    * Hot dog social & person running giving a speech event for campaign in a very high security zone.
    * Started machine gunning the stage during the speech trying to hit the advisor.
    * Car got blown up by police helicopter while they were still shooting from it.
    * Survivors were pasted while throwing grenades at the helicopter.

    Next week: "We all died. We're playing D&D now, can you roll a cleric?"

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    I like groups that are specialists in different fields. As long as most of the bases are covered it allows each player to have the spotlight shifted from character to character. This is better for larger groups so you have a couple people that can be the party face and the more needed skills like survival and stealth. The downside to this approach is that sometimes you get groups that have all the same specialties and that can put a crimp in the game when if you bump up against something that requires something that you aren't good at and the players either have to share the spotlight or end up competing (varies from table to table)
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    I basically always build a specialist! That could be stealth, diplomatic, followers, healing or some combat thing, but these days I like building something which is not combat focused and try and make that work…

    My “main” character tho, is a generalist wizard!

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Where do your characters fall on the generalist to specialist spectrum?

    I like broad specialists: They have a clear area in which they specialize, but said area tends to be broader than "fighter who hits things". My current campaign MC's a battle master who's been either a soldier or adventurer all his life, but has picked up more than a few related skills, like some military history, cartography, people skills (mostly intimidation) that tend to come with being an experienced former "NCO". He's more narrowly specialized than I'd usually go, but I wanted to see how it'd work out, and it did well thus far.

    Usually, I also like giving my characters some interests/skills/whatever the background and system may give that wouldn't "fit" the mechanical goal/their perceived personality in a way: makes them feel more real to me. Even if a character's built to be a fully min-maxed specialist, they'll tend to have something that they picked up "for fun" or out of sheer interest or happenstance, or just something they're talented at but never put in the effort to really get skilled at. Perhaps the low-int barbarian speaks Dwarvish and Gnomish because he spent a few years mercing in a war between'em and picked it up through osmosis, or the bookish, "couldn't run half a mile without dying" wizard who refuses to go outside without a reason turns out to be quite a decent survivalist, because as a young student he almost died alone, stranded in the wilderness, and said "never again". Stuff like that.
    Last edited by Taevyr; 2022-01-29 at 10:03 PM.

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