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Thread: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
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2022-01-20, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Fighter Subclass: Crusader
A Crusader is a fighter whose devotion to their deity manifests in divine power. Their powers are less expansive than a cleric's, but they are able to combine their martial talents and clerical spells.
SPELLCASTING
When you reach 3rd level, you augment your martial prowess with the ability to cast spells. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the cleric spell list.
Cantrips. You learn two cantrips of your choice from the cleric spell list. Vou learn an additional cleric cantrip of your choice at 10th level.
Domain Selection. All Crusaders choose a single domain. This forms the backbone of their spellcasting, as well as many of their subclass abilities.
Spell Slots. The Eldritch Knight Spellcasting table (PH 75) shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell's level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
For example, if you know the 1st level spell Cure Wounds and have a 1st level and a 2nd level spell slot available, you can cast it using either slot.
Spells Known of 1st-Level and Higher. At 3rd level, you know the 1st level spells from your domain, plus one of choice from the cleric list. At 7th, 13th, and 19th levels, you add the spells of your domain for the new level of spell slots you acquire at that point. At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th, another cleric spell may be chosen.
Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of the cleric spells you know (but not one of the domain spells) with another spell of your choice from the cleric spell list. The new spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
Spellcasting Ability. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your cleric spells, since you gain your spells through devotion and prayer. You use your Wisdom whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a cleric spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell save DC + 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Domain Abilities: At 3rd level, you gain the 1st level abilities of your chosen Domain. You gain all the proficiencies from the chosen domain, if you don't have them already.
Weapon Focus: At 7th level, you may chose a two specific weapons, or a weapon and a shield, and bond them as spellcasting foci. You may cast spells as if with a focus when using either of these items. Bonding these items requires a one hour ritual, during which the item must be within your reach the entire time. In addition, you may cast any cleric spell you know as a ritual if it has the ritual tag.
Enhanced Domain Abilities: At 10th level, you may use the 2nd level Channel Divinity feature of your chosen domain once. You must complete a short or long rest in order to use it again. If the ability references cleric level, use the fighter level instead.
Spell and Blade: At 15th level, when you make an attack action, you may forfeit one of your attacks to cast a single cantrip.
Divine Recovery: When you are reduced to 0 hit points you may, as a reaction, cast Heal upon yourself. This ability can only be used once, but you regain the ability with a long rest. You also gain access to the 6th level abilities of your chosen domain. If that ability is a form of Channel Divinity, you gain an additional use of Channel Divinity for each short or long rest, and can use them in any combination.
Spoiler: Comments on the new version
Some things the same, some things different.
1) 1st level abilities really are the core of the domain, so I give them at 3rd level. As pointed out in comments, multi-class fighters don't have Heavy Armor proficiency, so I edited to include that you get the ones you don't have.
2) I kept my version of Weapon Focus. I like the idea that they become better spellcasters later in their career, and think it's a reasonable restriction, with the bonus of ritual spells.
3) Some low-level channel divinity. Well behind when a cleric will get it, with a lot less flexibility (since they only have the 1 use for the 1 power).
4) Updated version of spell and blade; rather than being able to cast the cantrip as a bonus action, you can cast it as part of your attack routine. It does allow multiple cantrips per round with action surge, but that's not horribly unbalancing.
5) Slightly scaled down version of Yakk's suggested "heal completely and get a round worth of temporary HP. However, it also adds the level 6 domain abilities, which I wanted to get in there.
Spoiler: Original VersionA Crusader is a fighter whose devotion to their deity manifests in divine power. Their powers are less expansive than a cleric's, but they are able to combine their martial talents and clerical spells.
SPELLCASTING
When you reach 3rd level, you augment your martial prowess with the ability to cast spells. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the cleric spell list.
Cantrips. You learn two cantrips of your choice from the cleric spell list. Vou learn an additional cleric cantrip of your choice at 10th level.
Domain Selection. All Crusaders choose a single domain. This forms the backbone of their spellcasting, as well as many of their subclass abilities.
Spell Slots. The Eldritch Knight Spellcasting table (PH 75) shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell's level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
For example, if you know the 1st level spell Cure Wounds and have a 1st level and a 2nd level spell slot available, you can cast shield using either slot.
Spells Known of 1st-Level and Higher. At 3rd level, you know the 1st level spells from your domain, plus one of choice from the cleric list. At 7th, 13th, and 19th levels, you add the spells of your domain for the new level of spell slots you acquire at that point. At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th, another cleric spell may be chosen.
Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of the cleric spells you know (but not one of the domain spells) with another spell of your choice from the cleric spell list. The new spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
Spellcasting Ability. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your cleric spells, since you gain your spells through devotion and prayer. You use your Wisdom whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a cleric spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell save DC + 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Domain Abilities: At 3rd level, you gain the 1st level abilities of your chosen Domain. Those domains that grant proficiency with martial weapons and/or heavy armor do not gain additional advantages.
Weapon Focus: At 7th level, you may chose a two specific weapons, or a weapon and a shield, and bond them as spellcasting foci. You may cast spells as if with a focus when using either of these items. Bonding these items requires a one hour ritual, during which the item must be within your reach the entire time. In addition, you may cast any cleric spell you know as a ritual if it has the ritual tag.
Enhanced Domain Abilities: At 10th level, you gain the benefits of the 8th level ability of your chosen domain.
Spell and Blade: At 15th level, when you make an attack action, you may cast a Cantrip or 1st level spell (using no more than a 1st level spell slot) as a bonus action.
Divine Intervention: At 18th level, you may attempt divine intervention as a cleric. Your chance of successfully invoking divine intervention is equal to one-half your fighter level, plus any cleric levels, and your Wisdom modifier. As with clerics, if you are successful, you may not use this feature for another 7 days.
Design notes:
Spoiler: Whys and Wherefores
This is explicitly a fighter/cleric, a divine version of the Eldritch Knight. While the Eldritch Knight finds their spells limited largely to two schools, the Crusader finds theirs primarily limited by their Domain. Since they do not get Channel Divinity, several of the domain powers don't apply, and they're gain these abilities two levels later than the equivalent cleric. This is a choice.
3rd level: They cast spells. Like Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters, they begin unable to use foci, limiting them as spellcasters.
7th level: This grants them Foci, though somewhat more limited than a cleric who can just pick up a holy symbol; the Crusader must choose and bond with specific items. This is a bit less impressive than a Eldritch Knight's "summon your weapon to you", so included the ability to cast spells they know as rituals, if the spells themselves are rituals.
10th: 8th level domain abilities. Didn't see anything that got broken by throwing these in.
15th level: This is related to the Eldritch Knight's War Magic (7th) and Improved War Magic (18th). Because it as Attack-to-Cast, this is slightly better in a fighter's hands (since using the Attack action allows them to take additional attacks), which is why it is limited to cantrips and 1st level spells, whereas WM allows just cantrips, and IWM allows any spell. I limited it to 1st level spell slots to keep it under control, since the attack action is a lot better than a bonus-action attack
18th: Another "cleric lite" ability. At 18th level, they may be (are likely) better than a 10th level cleric, as their chance it 9 + Wisdom modifier (so, equal to a 10th level priest if they have a +1), and they can, at most, be equal to a 15th level priest (20th level fighter + 5 from a 20 Wisdom).
Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2022-01-22 at 10:50 AM.
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2022-01-20, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
Specific domain note: I know the 3rd level ability can get a bit impressive with a high-level Crusader with the War domain, potentially allowing 9 attacks in a single round at 20th level (Attack Action, bonus action from War Priest, Action Surge, Attack Action). However, that's also in line with a two-weapon fighter using their bonus action to attack with their off-hand while doing the same thing... and this is limited by their Wisdom.
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
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2022-01-20, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
I took a long look at the biggest difference I saw: the Crusader using a full attack then a cantrip/1st level spell, vs the Eldritch Knight using any spell then a single attack. Honestly, for those few levels you have them, they're pretty close. The Crusader wins, by the way, they can make a full attack then also use a "leveled up" cantrip like sacred flame and keep that up indefinitely.
There's also those cleric domains that say "add 1d8 or 2d8 to your weapon attacks". This subclass probably loves those, as with multiple attacks they get more than one chance to land a hit and therefore the bonus damage -- like a Rogue with multiple attacks, but less dramatic. Because these bonus damaged only happen 1x/turn it's not that bad, plus, I think a lot of those cleric domains also give heavy armor and martial weapon proficiencies, something the subclass already has. So, again, a nice boost but not a crippling issue.
I'm not convinced these issues are a big enough deal to scream THIS SUBCLASS IS TOO OP though. Honestly the whole looks fairly solid to me.
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2022-01-21, 12:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
Dungeon Dudes released a video on homebrewing expanded spells lists for sorcerers recently, and they suggested to pull spell from a single cleric domain for Divine Soul. I disagree, and I see similar issues here as well.
- Usually, at least half of a domain spell list is non-cleric spells. Which means anything referring to "any domain" isn't just hybridized into cleric, it poaches spells from somewhere else as well, and there's no telling what spell some future domain would have that might break your hybrid.
- Likewise, your Crusader pulls not only spell lists, but subclass features which is an entire new level of problematic. Existing domains' 1st level features vary tremendously in their usefulness to a fighter, and we have no idea what new mechanics might be there for domains that aren't printed yet. I'm not a fan of open-endedness for class features, we have it with spell lists already.
- Referring to the entire collection of subclasses of some class is a thing 5e just doesn't do. It tries not to put references to subclass mechanics anywhere else besides the subclass itself, Battle Master fighter being an exception that just shows it should've been a part of fighter chassis.
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2022-01-21, 01:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
I would probably remove weapon focus at 7th, specifying in the Spellcasting Focus section under Spellcasting that you can also use any weapon you are proficient with as a spellcasting focus if it is decorated with a sacred symbol, and I would move the domain from 3rd to 7th level.
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2022-01-21, 05:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
This is the first time I've ever heard of a "wizard modifier". Care to elaborate more on that?
(just kidding, I know you meant Wisdom modifier. It was just too hilarious to ignore ).
On a more serious note. I feel that in case of those domains that grant additional armor or weapon proficiencies, saying they won't get any additional advantages, there is a risk of making them inadvertently undesirable, compared to the other domains. I would consider maybe an extra cantrip from the cleric list, or maybe a tool or skill proficiency, depending on the nature of said domain, if you feel that additional cantrip is too much.
In regards to the 18th level feature, it seems a bit off, to suggest having levels in another class, even if there is an apparent potential synergy. It kind of defeats the purpose of the intended concept; in other words, why do we need this subclass if there is an option to multiclass for external benefits?
Besides, there's no precedency for such a design anywhere in the official books. In my honest opinion, it makes sense not to recommend or even suggest multiclassing, because multiclassing is an optional rule.
Spoiler: Arguably good rule of thumb for my personal homebrew design philosophyAs an aside, my personal rule of thumb in regards to homebrewing is to always try and see if there is a precedent rules interaction somewhere in the official books, to aim for at least a semblance of balance, when trying out something new. In case of mentioning taking levels in another class, whether its the main class or subclass, any mention of multiclassing is utterly omitted. Since multiclassing is an optional rule, it should remain as such. An optional rule that can be applied if and when needed without some corner cases carrying additional specified leverage in order to multiclass.Last edited by Arkhios; 2022-01-21 at 08:17 AM.
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My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
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Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
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2022-01-21, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
That was my biggest question. I may change it to "cantrip or 1st level spell slot"... so you can't upcast anything more than a cantrip when doing it.
There's also those cleric domains that say "add 1d8 or 2d8 to your weapon attacks".
TBH, "It might break in the future" doesn't carry a lot of weight with me; I'd lay odds that any feature or spell that DOES break this probably breaks the core cleric, as well.
Likewise, your Crusader pulls not only spell lists, but subclass features which is an entire new level of problematic. Existing domains' 1st level features vary tremendously in their usefulness to a fighter, and we have no idea what new mechanics might be there for domains that aren't printed yet. I'm not a fan of open-endedness for class features, we have it with spell lists already.
As for pulling subclass features, I'll note that an Eldritch Knight's bonded weapon and a Pact of the Blade warlock's pact weapon are pretty similar in execution.
Referring to the entire collection of subclasses of some class is a thing 5e just doesn't do. It tries not to put references to subclass mechanics anywhere else besides the subclass itself, Battle Master fighter being an exception that just shows it should've been a part of fighter chassis.
Note that neither the Eldritch Knight nor Arcane Trickster can use spell focuses; nor can rangers. Focuses are the prerogative of full casters and paladins. This is a bit weaker than a full spellcasting focus, or the EK's Bonded Weapon, IMO.
Why would you move the domain to 7th level?
Largely, it's a matter of considering if it does happen. This subclass should mostly remove the need for multiclassing that way, and the feature doesn't kick in till 18th level, so it's going to be a very limited benefit... a Cleric 2/Crusader 18 is going to have 9+2+Wisdom bonus, compared to a Crusader 20 having 10+Wisdom bonus. You could argue that, since a level 2 Crusader doesn't get Divine Intervention, it shouldn't have an impact, but I tend to think being a cleric *should* have an impact on your divine intervention.
In case of mentioning taking levels in another class, whether its the main class or subclass, any mention of multiclassing is utterly omitted.The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
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2022-01-21, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
Edit note: I changed the level 15 ability to limit you to a 1st level spell slot.
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
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2022-01-21, 11:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
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2022-01-21, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
For War/Life etc that grant additional armor prof. Don’t say “they get no benefit” just don’t mention them at all.
A MC fighter only gets medium armor, iirc so these domains might be a nice way to roll them up to heavy.
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2022-01-21, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
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There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2022-01-21, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
SPELLCASTING
When you reach 3rd level, you augment your martial prowess with the ability to cast spells. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the cleric spell list.
Cantrips. You learn two cantrips of your choice from the cleric spell list. Vou learn an additional cleric cantrip of your choice at 10th level.
Domain Selection. All Crusaders choose a single domain. They only gain benefits from this domain as described below.
Spell Slots: The Eldritch Knight Spellcasting table (PH 75) shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell's level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
For example, if you know the 1st level spell Cure Wounds and have a 1st level and a 2nd level spell slot available, you can cast shield using either slot.
Spells Known of 1st-Level and Higher. At 3rd level, you know the 1st level spells from your domain, plus one of choice from the cleric list. At 7th, 13th, and 19th levels, you add the spells of your domain for the new level of spell slots you acquire at that point. At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th, another cleric spell may be chosen.
Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of the cleric spells you know (but not one of the domain spells) with another spell of your choice from the cleric spell list. The new spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
Spellcasting Ability. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your cleric spells, since you gain your spells through devotion and prayer. You use your Wisdom whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a cleric spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Channel Divinity: At 3rd level, you gain the ability to Channel Divinity once per short rest, and can use the Channel Divinity from your chosen domain.
Blessed Weapons: At 3rd level, you may chose a two specific weapons, or a weapon and a shield, and bond them as spellcasting foci. You may cast spells as if with a focus when using either of these items. Bonding these items requires a one hour ritual, during which the item must be within your reach the entire time. This bond lasts until you do the ritual again.
SpoilerSo you can fight and cast spells right from the get-go.
Instead of a "Domain feature", you get their channel divinity. This is a modular feature and, unlike other features, doesn't overlap with any baseline fighter stuff.
Improved Spellcasting: At 7th level, when you take the attack action, you may replace one of your attacks with casting a Cleric Cantrip. In addition, you may cast any cleric spell you have prepared that has the ritual tag as a ritual.
SpoilerBased off of the Wizard gish subclass rather than the EK. It is better than the EK one, but the EK one isn't well designed.
Ritual, but only prepared spells, for some utility.
Improved Blessed Weapon: At 10th level, the first time you you hit a creature with a Blessed Weapon on your turn, it deals 1d8 additional radiant damage (increasing to 2d8 at level 15). If your divine domain has any features (besides domain spells) that can deal necrotic damage, this ability deals necrotic damage instead.
SpoilerA variation on what most cleric subclasses give at level 8.
There are a few differences. It is per Blessed Weapon, so TWF get to do it twice, and per target, so if you attack more than one target you also get to do it more often.
(Spread out damage is generally weaker than concentrated damage).
Divine Surge:: At 15th level, when you use your action surge, you can use your Channel Divinity ability as well without expending an action or your use of Channel Divinity.
SpoilerAn action-free Channel Divinity is quite good in many situations. You'll also get 2 Action Surges in a few levels, letting you really pour on the divine channeling.
Divine Fortress: At 18th level, when you are reduced to 0 HP, you can first heal to max HP and gain temporary HP equal to your max HP that last until the end of your next turn. Once you have done this, you cannot do it again until a week has passed.
SpoilerI don't like stealing the cleric's T3/4 funnest ability.
So I made basically a "self ressurection", where you get full HP and a pile of temporary HP for a round. It fits the "tough champion" better. And I think it should lead to moments of awesome.
As it is a big ability, I made it 1/week like channel divinity. I'd rather do that than water it down.
This is an attempt to remove the janky "gain a Cleric subclass feature", which people have noted causes issues (even in already published subclasses). The two that remain are the spell list and the channel divinity option.Last edited by Yakk; 2022-01-21 at 02:55 PM.
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2022-01-21, 03:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
Gotta say, I like it. A couple comments below, but it's a great version.
Might want to specify WHICH channel divinities. Knowledge has Knowledge of the Ages at 3, but Read Thoughts at 6. Trickster and War both have 6th levle features of Channel Divinity, too. There's also the problem of the Life domain ability, which keys off cleric level.
Improved Spellcasting: At 7th level, when you take the attack action, you may replace one of your attacks with casting a Cleric Cantrip. In addition, you may cast any cleric spell you have prepared that has the ritual tag as a ritual.
SpoilerBased off of the Wizard gish subclass rather than the EK. It is better than the EK one, but the EK one isn't well designed.
Ritual, but only prepared spells, for some utility.
Improved Blessed Weapon: At 10th level, the first time you you hit a creature with a Blessed Weapon on your turn, it deals 1d8 additional radiant damage (increasing to 2d8 at level 15). If your divine domain has any features (besides domain spells) that can deal necrotic damage, this ability deals necrotic damage instead.
Improved Blessed Weapon: At 10th level, the first time you you hit a creature with a Blessed Weapon on your turn, it deals 1d8 additional radiant damage (increasing to 2d8 at level 15). If your divine domain has the Divine Strike class feature, it will instead deal the type of damage specified by that ability.
Divine Surge:: At 15th level, when you use your action surge, you can use your Channel Divinity ability as well without expending an action or your use of Channel Divinity.
SpoilerAn action-free Channel Divinity is quite good in many situations. You'll also get 2 Action Surges in a few levels, letting you really pour on the divine channeling.Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2022-01-21 at 03:31 PM.
The Cranky Gamer
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2022-01-21, 07:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
I think the main point here is what happens if you multiclass into fighter so you don't start with heavy armour proficiency.
For me, I think that part of the challenge is keeping away from the paladin on this; I think that the focus on the domain spells is a great one for this as it takes you away from "generic holy warror" into something much more thematic. Foregoing the channel divinity likewise helps set the two classes apart. Giving things like the extra d8 damage from the cleric's level 8 ability feels a bit close to divine smite; maybe the 6th level ability instead would help keep the classes seperate (though then you get abilities referencing other missing ablities so maybe not so good)?
Personally this makes the Nature Cleric option seem appealing - a druid cantrip makes a wisdom focussed fighter a possability. d8 damage of any elemental type makes you well equipped to take down a lot of things with vulnerabilities. The domain spells tend to stay good even at much later levels than you would usually get them.
For other options... well the death domain cleric could lay down the pain at level 15 with 3 attacks and a reaper'd toll the dead. War cleric would be able to pick up divine favour which might be pretty brutal (though with spells like hex accesible through fey touched the impact is a little reduced).
Arcana domain could deliver some pain as well with a booming blade and an attack action at level 15 (and good for dumping wisdom if you felt the need).
Sill, its peace domain that (perhaps naturally) seems the most abusively powerful.
All in all I have to say I like what you have done with the class. I think it looks pretty powerful with the right choice of domain and I think that like eldritch knight it can dump its casting stat (when you have bless, who needs spell saves or attack rolls?).
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2022-01-22, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
As MrStabby said (below for quick reference):
If you started in a class other than fighter and then multiclass into fighter, you only gain proficiency in light and medium armor, and shields (and in both simple and martial weapons, of course).
So, in that sense, keeping domains as they are, by not making any special rules about access to some domain features depending of the choice of domains, there is an otherwise irrelevant but a welcome hidden benefit in those few corner cases, which isn't a bad thing, in my opinion.
To avoid potential misunderstandings, you could alternatively add a line: "You gain all the proficiencies from the chosen domain, if you don't have them already". The last sentence being the key.
That said, I do like Yakk's proposal quite a bit as well.
Namely, the Channel Divinity as a class feature.
Likely because the Inquisitor Rogue I've 'brewed (see my signature, below) gets it too.Last edited by Arkhios; 2022-01-22 at 09:06 AM.
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My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
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2022-01-22, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- Gender
Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
Good point; I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to amend that to include that they do get the proficiency, in that case.
maybe the 6th level ability instead would help keep the classes seperate (though then you get abilities referencing other missing ablities so maybe not so good)?
Maybe compromise, and give everyone the 2nd level channel divinity at 10th level?
I'll work this out with some of the suggestions and post an altered version today.The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2022-01-22, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- Gender
Re: Fighter Subclass: Crusader
New version in first post.
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.