A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2018

    Default "Minor [class]" feats

    I was looking for some equivalent for the C&C "class-plus" concept for 5e. On dandwiki, I found a few feats labeled "Minor" class feats that impart a few limited class features from the class in question. One in particular, "Minor Paladin", reads thusly:

    Minor Paladin
    Prerequisites: 13 Wisdom and 13 Charisma, does not already have the Divine Smite class feature.

    You have practiced devotion to a god you worship and swear to use your mind, body, and soul to break down evil at its core. Although you may not bear the full divine power and training of a true paladin, you do gain similar abilities. They are as follows:

    • You may cast the spell detect evil and good once without using a spell slot. You may do so again after finishing a long rest. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for this spell.
    • You may restore 5 hit points to a creature that you touch. Once you do, you must finish a long rest before using it again.
    • When you hit a creature with an attack, you may choose to deal an additional 1d6 radiant damage to that creature, in addition to the weapon's damage. If the creature is undead or a fiend, the additional damage increases to 2d6. Once you have used this feature, you must finish a long rest to use it again.


    I like this a Lot! I've always wanted to have a "paladin" build that was still very much a fighter above all. I think a fighter subclass (not sure which) with this "feat" would come close to the feel of the original OD&D paladin.

    There are also options for Minor Cleric, Rogue and Barbarian. I'm wondering what other options would/could be possible.

    A lot of 5e subclasses are all about incorporating class features from other classes. With this model, you don't even need a full subclass!

    Thoughts? What other "Minor" feats would be cool/possible/playable?

    Edit: There is also a "Minor Druid" option out there. Limited wildshape, or course! I'm wondering what abilities "Minor Ranger" might impart
    Last edited by paladinn; 2022-01-21 at 03:59 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by paladinn View Post
    I've always wanted to have a "paladin" build that was still very much a fighter above all. I think a fighter subclass (not sure which) with this "feat" would come close to the feel of the original OD&D paladin.
    First off, OD&D paladins didn't have divine smite ...
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2018

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    First off, OD&D paladins didn't have divine smite ...
    Understood, but they also didn't cast spells. And the "dispel evil" ability was poorly defined and possibly OP. I much prefer the divine smite.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by paladinn View Post
    Understood, but they also didn't cast spells.
    They picked that up in AD&D 1e, IIRC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyhawk p. 8
    Paladins of 8th level and above dispel evil (spells, undead, evil enchanted monsters, and the like) simply by ordering it hence, and they detect all evil at a range of 6" {60'}.
    It was a hard class to qualify for when rolling in order.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyhawk p. 8
    Paladins with any form of "Holy Sword" are virtually immune to all magic (see MONSTERS & TREASURE, MAGIC & TREASURE, Swords).
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyhawk p. 46
    Holy Sword +5. As a Holy Sword this weapon will display its true worth only in the hands of a Paladin. Wielded by a Paladin it negates all spells (including wands and staves and the like) in a radius of 1", thus making the Paladin virtually magic-proof.
    Note that vorpal blades and swords of sharpness were also holy swords by default at that point.

    But for this edition, sure, the addition of the smite - a signature paladin feature - is a good choice.

    Just out of curiosity, was your idea for this related to how in Tasha's they begin to pillage Warlock and Sorcerer class features (some invocations, meta magic) as feats for anyone?
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2022-01-21 at 04:09 PM.
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Just out of curiosity, was your idea for this related to how in Tasha's they begin to pillage Warlock and Sorcerer class features (some invocations, meta magic) as feats for anyone?
    Seems like it.

    Minor in Barbarian: Rage X per LR (minus one aspect of it), reckless attack X per LR, +10' speed
    Minor in Bard: Inspiration X per LR, expertise in performance or an instrument, when taking a short rest heal an extra d4
    Minor in Cleric: Turn Undead X per LR, domain spell once per LR, Cleric cantrip

    And so on
    Roll for it
    5e Houserules and Homebrew
    Old Extended Signature
    Awesome avatar by Ceika

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2018

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    They picked that up in AD&D 1e, IIRC. It was a hard class to qualify for when rolling in order.

    Note that vorpal blades and swords of sharpness were also holy swords by default at that point.

    But for this edition, sure, the addition of the smite - a signature paladin feature - is a good choice.

    Just out of curiosity, was your idea for this related to how in Tasha's they begin to pillage Warlock and Sorcerer class features (some invocations, meta magic) as feats for anyone?
    First of all, this wasn't "my" idea.. Others have posted these on Dandwiki.

    I am a fan of Castles & Crusades as well as 5e; and I especially enjoy Troll Lord's Amazing Adventures 5e. One of the optional C&C rules expansions was the "Class-Plus" idea, where at the cost of a small XP requirement increase, one can grab some of the class features of another class. I wondered if something like that had been done for 5e, and I stumbled upon the "Minor" class feats.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2018

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Seems like it.

    Minor in Barbarian: Rage X per LR (minus one aspect of it), reckless attack X per LR, +10' speed
    Minor in Bard: Inspiration X per LR, expertise in performance or an instrument, when taking a short rest heal an extra d4
    Minor in Cleric: Turn Undead X per LR, domain spell once per LR, Cleric cantrip

    And so on
    There are options for "Minors" in Druid, Cleric and Barbarian. One could say the Magic Initiate makes for "Minors" in Wizard, Sorcerer and Warlock. I wonder about Warlock, Bard and Ranger, since so many of their class abilities actually come from their subclasses.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by paladinn View Post
    Understood, but they also didn't cast spells. And the "dispel evil" ability was poorly defined and possibly OP. I much prefer the divine smite.
    Last I recall, Lawful Fighters that became Paladins eventually gained access to Cleric spells, but at 1/3rd of their level. Same as their ability to turn undead. AD&D 1st added Lay on Hands (IIRC, I might be wrong) and the bonus to saves. 3.x added Smite.
    Retooler of D&D 3.5 (and 5e/Next) content. See here for more.
    Now with a comprehensive guide for 3.5 Paladin players porting to Pathfinder. Also available for 5th Edition
    On Lawful Good:
    Quote Originally Posted by firebrandtoluc View Post
    My friend is currently playing a paladin. It's way outside his normal zone. I told him to try to channel Santa Claus, Mr. Rogers, and Kermit the Frog. Until someone refuses to try to get off the naughty list. Then become Optimus Prime.
    T.G. Oskar profile by Specter.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    Last I recall, Lawful Fighters that became Paladins eventually gained access to Cleric spells, but at 1/3rd of their level.
    Sorta. Not only Lawful fighters who chose "Paladin" rather than "Knight," but also Chaotic fighters who chose "Avenger" rather than "Knight" got cleric spells exactly as you describe, if you happened to have a Wisdom of 13 or better...which you had generated using 3d6-in-order, and then chosen to make that character a class that, as far as anything before the Companion set so much as hinted, had no use for Wisdom.
    Spoiler
    Show
    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Pillars of Eternity (both parts) used to have feats like these.
    I am Lawful Evil (-14 chaos, 17 evil, 6 balance)


  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2018

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Sorta. Not only Lawful fighters who chose "Paladin" rather than "Knight," but also Chaotic fighters who chose "Avenger" rather than "Knight" got cleric spells exactly as you describe, if you happened to have a Wisdom of 13 or better...which you had generated using 3d6-in-order, and then chosen to make that character a class that, as far as anything before the Companion set so much as hinted, had no use for Wisdom.
    That was BECMI. OD&D introduced the paladin in the Greyhawk supplement. It was a fighter subclass that didn't cast spells, but had the detect evil, protection from evil, lay-on-hands and, at the time, dispel evil. By 1e, they got spells and lost dispel evil. 3e gave smite evil.

    I like the "minor paladin" feat because it allows a fighter to function more like the original paladin, and not be a junior cleric.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Arkhios's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by paladinn View Post
    I like the "minor paladin" feat because it allows a fighter to function more like the original paladin, and not be a junior cleric.
    As an idea, I do like this, but in the way it's flavored, there's one fundamental flaw:

    5th edition Paladins don't get their abilities from devotion to gods. They uphold certain ideals and a code, and through conviction they get powerful abilities, that classify as divine. Paladins in 5th (and oddly enough, 3rd) edition are not required to worship a deity, that requirement is external depending on the setting (for example Forgotten Realms).

    Plus, the required minimum scores feel strange, considering paladin's multiclassing requirement is "minimum 13 str & cha", not "minimum 13 wis & cha".
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2022-01-23 at 03:49 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2018

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    As an idea, I do like this, but in the way it's flavored, there's one fundamental flaw:

    5th edition Paladins don't get their abilities from devotion to gods. They uphold certain ideals and a code, and through conviction they get powerful abilities, that classify as divine. Paladins in 5th (and oddly enough, 3rd) edition are not required to worship a deity, that requirement is external depending on the setting (for example Forgotten Realms).

    Plus, the required minimum scores feel strange, considering paladin's multiclassing requirement is "minimum 13 str & cha", not "minimum 13 wis & cha".
    I agree; and as I said, I think this speaks to that concept more than paladins casting spells. They should be fighters first and foremost, even if they are fighters-of-faith.

    I'm sure I'll be messing with the minimums. I'm just now digging into the "minor" class concept from Dandwiki.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Chimera

    Join Date
    Sep 2021

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by paladinn View Post
    There are options for "Minors" in Druid, Cleric and Barbarian. One could say the Magic Initiate makes for "Minors" in Wizard, Sorcerer and Warlock. I wonder about Warlock, Bard and Ranger, since so many of their class abilities actually come from their subclasses.
    I made a “minor Druid” feat before which gave one use of Wildshape per long rest. When you took the feat you chose a number of Beast stat blocks equal to your proficiency mod, complying with all Druid level restrictions for the shapes (No flying at low levels) which were you “locked in” when you took the feat. Using wildshape was an action and you faced the same restrictions with equipment, spellcasting, racial traits and speech as a Druid while transformed. You gain one use of Wildshape total per long rest, not once for every form you know.

    At higher levels (when your prof. bonus increases) you could add more beast shapes, but it was still only one every four levels.

    I suppose a true Minor Druid feat would include some spellcasting, perhaps Protection from Poison too. Or Plant Growth.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2018

    Default Re: "Minor [class]" feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Rilmani View Post
    I made a “minor Druid” feat before which gave one use of Wildshape per long rest. When you took the feat you chose a number of Beast stat blocks equal to your proficiency mod, complying with all Druid level restrictions for the shapes (No flying at low levels) which were you “locked in” when you took the feat. Using wildshape was an action and you faced the same restrictions with equipment, spellcasting, racial traits and speech as a Druid while transformed. You gain one use of Wildshape total per long rest, not once for every form you know.

    At higher levels (when your prof. bonus increases) you could add more beast shapes, but it was still only one every four levels.

    I suppose a true Minor Druid feat would include some spellcasting, perhaps Protection from Poison too. Or Plant Growth.
    This sounds very much like the Minor Druid feat from Dandwiki. Great minds!

    I've been delving into Troll Lord's Amazing Adventures game. It's based on and works seemlessly with Castles & Crusades. They have a number of "generic class abilities" which one can swap in place of an unwanted class feature. There are also suggestions for actually swapping class features for Other class' features. Potentially it provides a Lot of flexibility and customization.

    TL has also published a version of AA for 5e. If they develop the generic/swapped class feature concept, it would be totally cool!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •