OOTS #1252 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Metastachydium]

Elan: still weirdly useful!

[Ruck]

Nice. I know there must be a few bets on Elan convincing Sunny to cooperate that are paying off now.

[Nightcanon]

Excellent! Nice thinking on how to go about security in a high-magic world in the last few pages. Elan showing his worth as a diplomancer again.

[Jeremiah31.3]

Wow... I've been reading this comic for years and I don't think I've ever caught it this early...

I like Sunny, Sunny is best beholder. Magically conjured stone as a beholder door is not something I'd thought of... Gonna have to find a way to use that in game...

[Beni-Kujaku]

How does Sunny go through the wall? If it only winks out when he looks at it, it should block most of his body when he's trying to pass.

[Metastachydium]

Also, #FranklinLives!

[MoiMagnus]

How does Sunny go through the wall? If it only winks out when he looks at it, it should block most of his body when he's trying to pass.

While the true answer is probably "don't think too much about it", it could also be that the wall simply doesn't immediately reappear when out of the anti-magic zone, and Sunny has just enough time to pass through by going quickly enough.

[danielxcutter]

Instantaneous effects can’t be dispelled or suppressed, but permanent effects can. It depends on what the type of spell was used to create the wall.

[Rogan]

Elan: still weirdly useful!

Yeah! Well, Sunny being sunny probably helped as well. This beholder is adorable.

So, will V have to go back to help Franklin up to the ceiling again, using her flight spell?

[3SecondCultist]

Awww, yeah! Sunny helping the Order due to Elan’s kindness was a predictable beat (in that many people predicted it) but it’s still a great offscreen moment of awesome for Elan.

[Tundar]

I love Elan. The world needs more people like him

[The MunchKING]

While the true answer is probably "don't think too much about it", it could also be that the wall simply doesn't immediately reappear when out of the anti-magic zone, and Sunny has just enough time to pass through by going quickly enough.

While your True Answer is probably correct, for that kind of effect you probably want a dispel. IIRC those tend to turn off permanent spells for a set amount of time (usually 10 minutes).

[HUMVEE Driver]

For a minute there, I didn't know what was going on. It took me a second. Roy just let Elan take the reins, which was kinda weird. Sunny cracked me up though! Too bad "Mommy" is probably going to mess it up.

Pity they can't work together! A little bit of teamwork would go a long way. Go after the bad guys together. Except it almost never seems to work out that way. :(

[hamishspence]

Elan's doing good. I suspect he'll be rapidly building a rapport with Sunny.

[Lord Torath]

I love that last line from Serini!!

Now that they have some time to talk to her, they can share the results of the Godmoot with Serini, which will probably make her more open to a team-up.

Thanks, Rich!

[Shining Wrath]

Another example of how good can triumph over evil. Well done, Elan, your natural compassion made things much easier.
I think we now have a timeline; the Scribble started work on protecting the gates approximately 50 years ago. Which is not that long for a halfling; Serini should be the equivalent of a 50-ish human, by my guess.
Shouldn't someone be letting the paladins out of their chains as a high priority?

While the true answer is probably "don't think too much about it", it could also be that the wall simply doesn't immediately reappear when out of the anti-magic zone, and Sunny has just enough time to pass through by going quickly enough.

While your True Answer is probably correct, for that kind of effect you probably want a dispel. IIRC those tend to turn off permanent spells for a set amount of time (usually 10 minutes).

I'm going to go with Sunny rotates going through the wall and finishes by backing out. But the 10 minute thing works, if Serini is OK with her door being open for that long.

[DapperWarlock]

Three months after the strip he first dropped in, I was certain I had realized why the piercer was named Franklin... only to then see a claim that it's a reference to Hawkeye on M*A*S*H. On one hand, this seems tenuous because Franklin is his middle name, but on the other some people do go by their middle name and not their first (Not having watched any M*A*S*H yet, I don't know if this is the case for Hawkeye--especially since him having that nickname makes it even more confusing). With what little I know about Rich, it seems a little more likely than being a reference to the 14th US President, but I still don't know for sure. If it is the latter, that is a US history DEEP CUT.

[chrestomancy]

How does Sunny go through the wall? If it only winks out when he looks at it, it should block most of his body when he's trying to pass.

Think in terms of combat rounds. The conjured wall blinks out when sunny looks at it. He then takes a move action. The wall doesn’t reappear until the end of that.

In a world as self aware of the rules as this, it all checks out.

[Wraithfighter]

...if this were an actual Campaign, I'd kinda expect Elan's player to be this sorta super-competent min-max-er who decided to play the Comic Relief for the fun of it this time.

Because dude is hilariously competent now and it just kinda rules. Like, I'm honestly wondering if him offering to heal Franklin after already getting permission to heal his own friends was some kind of Machiavellian scheme, when it's still so incredibly in-character for him.

But yeah, yay seeing the combat section definitely over now, time for talky bits!

[Doug Lampert]

Three months after the strip he first dropped in, I was certain I had realized why the piercer was named Franklin... only to then see a claim that it's a reference to Hawkeye on M*A*S*H. On one hand, this seems tenuous because Franklin is his middle name, but on the other some people do go by their middle name and not their first (Not having watched any M*A*S*H yet, I don't know if this is the case for Hawkeye--especially since him having that nickname makes it even more confusing). With what little I know about Rich, it seems a little more likely than being a reference to the 14th US President, but I still don't know for sure. If it is the latter, that is a US history DEEP CUT.

Hawkeye always goes by Hawkeye on the show, his actual name is only used in situations where you could not use a nickname. When someone does call him by name, it's likely to be as Captain Pierce rather than Benjamin or Franklin.

Think in terms of combat rounds. The conjured wall blinks out when sunny looks at it. He then takes a move action. The wall doesn’t reappear until the end of that.

In a world as self aware of the rules as this, it all checks out.

Yes, this. Time in D&D exists in rounds and actions. Even if the stone tried to reappear during movement, Sunny appears to be only medium size, and the stone can only reappear when Sunny is in one square or the other since nothing happens while you are between squares, which means it comes back after Sunny is through.

[enq]

Panel two is missing punctuation in Haley's speech bubble.

[Edhelras]

Yay! That beholder really has a sunny disposition! Also, weekend update.

[hamishspence]

Another example of how good can triumph over evil. Well done, Elan, your natural compassion made things much easier.
I think we now have a timeline; the Scribble started work on protecting the gates approximately 50 years ago.

A bit more than that. Still, it seems like a possible date for the completion of the "splitting up process".


We know the "Gates quest" itself begun some 67 years ago

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html

(roughly a year has lapsed between that scene with Shojo, and now)

And The Giant originally had The Sapphire Guard be founded "64 years ago" (65 now), two years after the Gate Quest began.

Let's say 76 years ago: Shojo I (age, say, 25) ascends to throne of Azure City. Soon (age 38) is his samurai.

68 years ago: Shojo I (age 33) becomes a father when Shojo II is born.

66 years ago: Soon (age 48) discovers rifts, etc.

64 years ago: Soon (age 50) founds Sapphire Guard.

56 years ago: Soon (age 58) gives control of Sapphire Guard to Shojo I (age 45), who has ruled Azure City for 20 years. Shojo II (age 12) looks on. Soon then dies.

47 years ago: Shojo I (age 59) dies. Shojo II (age 21) ascends throne of Azure City.

Today: Shojo II (age 68) rules Azure City.

The biggest changes The Giant made since that post, was to age Shojo II (the one we meet in the strip) up a bit from 68 to 72, and rename Shojo I to Ronjo.

In the context of the 50 years figure Serini gives - maybe the Sapphire Guard was around quite a bit longer than the splitting up was - with the splitting up taking place very shortly before Soon handed the Sapphire over to Shojo's father?

Since Xykon's not been a lich very long - (about 30 years or so going by Start of Darkness, and he's implied to have gotten the diary from Serini at most 6 years before the main strip begins), we know Serini's not saying she's guarded the dungeon, for 50 years, ever since the fight with Xykon, since he was a lich during that fight - and can't have encountered Serini that long ago.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1227.html

[Wowlock]

To think, Elan and Sunny are the reasonable ones in the room. Who knew.

[Wraithfighter]

To think, Elan and Sunny are the reasonable ones in the room. Who knew.

Hey now, Haley's plenty reasonable, she just has little patience for SOBs who attack her friends unprovoked and refuse any efforts at diplomacy!

[Shining Wrath]

A bit more than that. Still, it seems like a possible date for the completion of the "splitting up process".


We know the "Gates quest" itself begun some 67 years ago

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html

(roughly a year has lapsed between that scene with Shojo, and now)

And The Giant originally had The Sapphire Guard be founded "64 years ago" (65 now), two years after the Gate Quest began.


The biggest changes The Giant made since that post, was to age Shojo II (the one we meet in the strip) up a bit from 68 to 72, and rename Shojo I to Ronjo.

In the context of the 50 years figure Serini gives - maybe the Sapphire Guard was around quite a bit longer than the splitting up was - with the splitting up taking place very shortly before Soon handed the Sapphire over to Shojo's father?

Since Xykon's not been a lich very long - (about 30 years or so going by Start of Darkness, and he's implied to have gotten the diary from Serini at most 6 years before the main strip begins), we know Serini's not saying she's guarded the dungeon, for 50 years, ever since the fight with Xykon, since he was a lich during that fight - and can't have encountered Serini that long ago.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1227.html

Serini's "50 years" is also perhaps a round number, and likely includes the time spent to construct the dungeon, which is similar to Rome in that it was not built in a day. Obviously Serini built the dungeon, and then continued with an adventuring life, which is how Xykon found her near the troll village. There's no way the split-up of the Scribbles didn't predate Xykon's lichhood, so Serini must have built her dungeon and then gone on with her life.

[hamishspence]

There's no way the split-up of the Scribblers came after Shojo's coming to the throne either, and that was 48 years ago.

It's possible that Serini took a long time to construct and stock the dungeon though - beginning around 65 years ago (same time that the Sapphire Guard was founded) and ending 50 years ago. She may have started with something small and spent the next 15 years expanding it a little at a time before saying "That's good enough" and leaving.

[The MunchKING]

Hey now, Haley's plenty reasonable, she just has little patience for SOBs who attack her friends unprovoked and refuse any efforts at diplomacy!

Sereni isn't really the "son of" anyone/

[Ezekiel]

Thanks for the surprise Saturday update Giant!