Is Barbarian more frontloaded than we think?

[Dork_Forge]

The immunity ability is part of one of the worst barbarian subclasses though, so what you gain from that one defense makes you lose basically everywhere else. The reroll meanwhile is from Zealot, which is good - but every single Fighter gets to reroll saves via Indomitable (on top of extra ASIs for things like Resilient or Lucky), so multiclassing out of Barbarian is still often the superior build strategy. Not saying that to contradict you, just providing additional context.

Indomitable isn't really favourably comparable to Fanatical Focus:

- once per day vs once per Rage

- level 9 (and that's straight Fighter) vs level 6

[Psyren]

Indomitable isn't really favourably comparable to Fanatical Focus:

- once per day vs once per Rage

- level 9 (and that's straight Fighter) vs level 6

Yes, as I mentioned Zealot is my favorite barb subclass for this reason. But Indomitable is a base class feature as opposed to a subclass feature, so I can count on having it on my BM, my Echo Knight, my Eldritch Knight, my Rune Knight etc. I'm not locked into one specific concept in order to get a reroll.

[Second Wind]

Fighting Style is fine but it also depends on what you grab. You grabbed Archery with your sample fighter above. Archery style does not keep up with Reckless Attack, and doesn't add extra damage, so the Barbarian is ahead in accuracy and damage. If you grab Great Weapon Fighting, it barely adds even 1 damage if you're using anything short of a Greatsword/Maul.

Defense brings the Fighter ahead in AC, but that's a given seeing as the Barbarian is limited to Medium Armor and expected to use Reckless Attack. Dueling adds more consistent damage but has to be used with one-handed weapons, so really it's just matching the damage of the Barbarian's greataxe.

There are some exciting fighting styles outside the PHB that open up new options, such as Blind Fighting or Unarmed Fighting. If your DM allows it, Mariner is also brilliant for barbarians.

[Dr.Samurai]

There are some exciting fighting styles outside the PHB that open up new options, such as Blind Fighting or Unarmed Fighting. If your DM allows it, Mariner is also brilliant for barbarians.

Agreed. I absolutely love Mariner too and I wish it were made official in something like Ghosts of Saltmarsh.

Yakk's analysis seemed very numbers oriented, so I went with the Styles that grant flat numerical advantages.

I do agree that some Fighting Styles may be tempting, but level 6 is definitely a much stronger level for Barbarians than was provided in the analysis.

I'll add that 7 gets you a lot as a barbarian too. Advantage on initiative AND immunity to surprise make it very hard for enemies to get the drop on your group, plus you also get Instinctive Pounce which synergizes with both of those fantastically. Go first and move up to 55 feet without dashing to get right into the thick of it

I agree 100%. I think level 7 is a good level and I look forward to getting both Feral Instinct and Instinctive Pounce.

[Gurgeh]

For swapping to the javelin - note that per JC, dropping your current weapon doesn't take an action at all, not even your free object interaction. So you can drop your 2-hander for free, object interact out a javellin and (hopefully) toss it with your action.

You don't even need to drop your two-hander; it can be held in one hand while you throw your javelin perfectly fine! The only time you need to put up with drop-the-weapon shenanigans is if you're using two weapons or a shield.

[Ulsan Krow]

I thought we think Barbarian is front loaded to begin with.

Barbarian largely just gets tankier and Rage harder to fumble as you progress in the class.

One glaring issue is the fact that Brutal Critical is considered an adequate feature alone, the fact that its the sole feature for 3 whole levels. It's an abysmal DPR improvement.


The one saving grace of the base Barbarian class is that it has an amazing capstone. But outside of this level 20 feature that maybe 0.1% of players will ever get to use outside of oneshots, you don't get anything worthwhile for damage past level 5 extra attack.

[johnbragg]

Thanks everybody. Finally playing my first session after levelling up. (Barb 5, Fighter 1) Great Weapon fighting style added a point or two to every hit, Second Wind basically saved me a healing potion.

(Gave up on Two Weapon Fighting because the action economy is just too punishing)

[johnbragg]

Thanks everybody. Finally playing my first session after levelling up. (Barb 5, Fighter 1) Great Weapon fighting style added a point or two to every hit, Second Wind basically saved me a healing potion.

(Gave up on Two Weapon Fighting because the action economy is just too punishing)

Levelled up again, Barbarian 5/ Fighter 2. Looking forward to that Action Surge.

So it's time to think about my next level, and I finally found a subclass with a draw aggro mechanic. None of the fluff fits my dwarf Barbarian (Bear Totem) who branched out into Fighter so he could hit a little bit harder (GWF) and tank a little bit better (Second Wind).

But it's a book-legal subclass. Cavalier, from Xanathar's Guide To Everything.

The relevant bit:

Unwavering Mark AKA Draw Aggro
Starting at 3rd level, you can menace your foes, foiling their attacks and punishing them for harming others. When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can mark the creature until the end of your next turn. This effect ends early if you are incapacitated or you die, or if someone else marks the creature.

While it is within 5 feet of you, a creature marked by you has disadvantage on any attack roll that doesn't target you.

In addition, if a creature marked by you deals damage to anyone other than you, you can make a special melee weapon attack against the marked creature as a bonus action on your next turn. You have advantage on the attack roll, and if it hits, the attack's weapon deals extra damage to the target equal to half your fighter level.

Regardless of the number of creatures you mark, you can make this special attack a number of times equal to your Strength modifier (a minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.

Triggers on a successful melee weapon attack, for a one round duration.
If target ignores my Draw Aggro, disadvantage on melee, ranged and spell attacks. And (as long as I have my bonus action--don't need to Rage or drink a healing potion) I get a single free attack (not the Attack action) with a +1 damage bonus. Free attack usable 5x per long rest.

If the target withdraws, I get an Opportunity Attack as a reaction. If the target uses the Disengage action, that burns their action for the round. (Unless they get Disengage as a bonus action, but you can't win 'em all.)

Complications that don't apply in my party: "This effect ends early.... if someone else marks the creature." My party doesn't have a ranger or another cavalier, no one is spending shenanigans just to get the Hunter's Mark spell. A Warlock's Hex is not a mark, the other kind of warlock hex is not a mark.

Rest of the subclass some stuff about horses and a skill, chosen from Animal Handling, History, Insight, Performance, or Persuasion (or a language).

Hmmm. What's the DC on a Persuasion (Charisma) check to convince an enemy to attack my character instead of one of the spellcasters?

[Yakk]

I'd do Barb 5/Cav 4 (picking up GWM; GWM is just too good on a barbarian). Then maybe Gloomstalker 3 (extra attack on first turn, works great with action surge, plus invisible in darkness, darkvision +30', 10' movement first turn of combat, +wis initiative, etc).

You can't concentrate on or cast spells while raging; but you only have 3 1st level slots. They can be pure utility.

So, for spells, say: Longstrider, Speak with Animals, Jump.

At level 9, for a big fight, you may have Longstrider up before hand (1 hour duration, not concentration). Your first turn is a 60' move (30' + 10' barbarian + 10' gloomstalker + 10' longstrider), bonus action rage, and 6 attacks for +3/2d6+16(25ish each) with advantage; that is up to 150 damage.

Against AC 18, you need a 15+ to hit; 51% hit chance 10% crit, for an average of about 80 damage.

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Barbarians don't get access to Necromancy casting.