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    Default 3.x: Spheres of powers as cantrips or fundamentals of magic

    So this year it'll be 22 years since D&D 3.0 released, with it the OGL that allowed for a bloom of 3rd party content, and plenty of updates to the game system like 3.5 or 3.75 (Pathfinder) etcetera. Some of these updates have spring up some very nice tangent ideas, like spheres of power, for example.

    What I would like is help brainstorming how to bring some of those tangents back into the tree, integrating them as a core aspect of the game. That is of course if it's something you will enjoy, ultimately this is a playground, let's have fun playing. As a first theme for brainstorming let's look at something that's been on my mind as of late.

    Pathfinder made cantrips, or equivalent 0 level spells, essentially at will. I think this overall is a good idea, it moves away from the caster with a crossbow at low level and gives the caster more caster-y stuff to do without breaking the game. Pathfinder though inherited most of its cantrips from 3.5, which in turn inherited them from 3.0, and basically used them as an after thought. Yeah you can use cantrips but most of the time you are going to be using a 1st lvl spell slot instead, you aren't going to be using cantrips down the line.

    Spheres of power is a variant magic system created by Drop Dead Studios for pathfinder. A quick summary is that (sphere)casters pick their powers from spheres which are grouped temathically. Several sphere powers can be cast for free (well you need actions to cast them, but no resources other than time) and most if not all can be improved by use of spellpoints (not exactly like spell slots but if you are entirely unfamiliar with it it's close enough). The expectation again is that you won't be using the "free" stuff most of the time using the spellpoints normally and have the others as a fallback option.

    So spheres of power talents without spell point expendite could equate cantrips.

    Another thing that spheres of power does well is be very modular and help build temathic stuff. Media has evolved in the last 22 years and while you can build anything you want with 3.x (specially if you aren't homebrew averse) Spheres of Power has done a great deal of stuff letting you build FUN! stuff (while being mostly balanced). As the powerful effects, require spell points, and they build up from there most spherecasters are temathically contained.

    Can we do something similar with spells? There are "translation" tables between spheres and magic schools. Could we do something like tome of battle does, to learn that spell you need to have X spells known with that theme/school/descriptor? Is it a good idea?

    What do you guys think?
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

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    Default Re: 3.x: Spheres of powers as cantrips or fundamentals of magic

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post

    Can we do something similar with spells? There are "translation" tables between spheres and magic schools. Could we do something like tome of battle does, to learn that spell you need to have X spells known with that theme/school/descriptor? Is it a good idea?

    What do you guys think?
    Do you remember path magic from 2d ed?

    There's Paths of Power, which is available for free here, which updates path magic to 3x, where it groups spells into paths, so groups of spells, one each level.

    You could use that as a basis, like have paths that go from 0 level cantrips to the 9th level spells.

    Paths of Power has these bought for a single feat or class feature.

    I think you could get something you like with a little fiddling using that as a basis.

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    Default Re: 3.x: Spheres of powers as cantrips or fundamentals of magic

    Easiest translation of Spheres powers to cantrips?
    Any sphere effect with 0 SP cost, and set it to caster level 1. Done. Although that actually tends to be stronger than most cantrips. Because most cantrips are meant as little more than stage magic.

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    Default Re: 3.x: Spheres of powers as cantrips or fundamentals of magic

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Easiest translation of Spheres powers to cantrips?
    Any sphere effect with 0 SP cost, and set it to caster level 1. Done. Although that actually tends to be stronger than most cantrips. Because most cantrips are meant as little more than stage magic.
    Actually sounds to me like the OP wants something more along the lines of Monte Cook's Book of Experimental Might with its magical disciplines, Owen's Cantripothurge from 52 in 52, or the abilities offered by reserve feats in DnD 3x, something that keeps spellcasters useful even if they've blown their daily limit.

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    Default Re: 3.x: Spheres of powers as cantrips or fundamentals of magic

    Quote Originally Posted by StSword View Post
    Do you remember path magic from 2d ed?

    There's Paths of Power, which is available for free here, which updates path magic to 3x, where it groups spells into paths, so groups of spells, one each level.

    You could use that as a basis, like have paths that go from 0 level cantrips to the 9th level spells.

    Paths of Power has these bought for a single feat or class feature.

    I think you could get something you like with a little fiddling using that as a basis.
    Yes, pretty much. Will read paths of power.

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Easiest translation of Spheres powers to cantrips?
    Any sphere effect with 0 SP cost, and set it to caster level 1. Done. Although that actually tends to be stronger than most cantrips. Because most cantrips are meant as little more than stage magic.
    I don't mind increasing the power cantrips as they are, I want to make cantrips a viable option BUT require cantrips to later grab spells. And noting that for the most part you aren't going to be using cantrips. If that's too powerful I could take a page from psionic talents in which you either need to use a power point (little power investment at high lvl) or a focus (something that is free but it takes actions to recharge) for casting them.

    Quote Originally Posted by StSword View Post
    Actually sounds to me like the OP wants something more along the lines of Monte Cook's Book of Experimental Might with its magical disciplines, Owen's Cantripothurge from 52 in 52, or the abilities offered by reserve feats in DnD 3x, something that keeps spellcasters useful even if they've blown their daily limit.
    Yes I want spellcasters spellcasting, if that makes sense. Will check those sources too. Or for that matter I want this to be accessible to all clases through feats/class features etc, and be how the magic fundamentally works. From there go to partial casters like ranger or paladin and give them less toys from a more limited selection perhaps but things that work similarly.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

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    Default Re: 3.x: Spheres of powers as cantrips or fundamentals of magic

    Doh, I guess I had a total brain fart.

    Owen recently did an article about buffing cantrips, which you can find here.

    Might not be powerful enough for you, but I imagine you could scale them up if you like.

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