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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Build advice/feedback- bladesinger with sick stats

    Getting ready to join a game a friend is running, and using dice rolls for it.

    Got lucky (with him witnessing) the rolls and got
    18 16 16 14 12 8

    Decided to go with wizard because I haven’t got a chance to be one in forever. Also decided to go ahead and be a little useful in melee so decided to go bladesinger for it. Currently thinking of actually trying two weapon fighting along with it, so I can booming or green flame blade when needed, with two weapon attacks, eventually adding intelligence to the damage as well when blade singing. That way I can provide decent damage if needed in melee when not using spells to do battlefield or crowd control.

    As such stats go like this along with feats

    Str- 8
    Dex- 16 —> 17
    Con- 16
    Int- 18 —> 19
    Wis- 14
    Cha- 12
    Feat: Warcaster

    Level 4: dex and int +1
    Level 8: fighting initiate: two weapon fighting
    Level 12: Dual Wielder
    Level 16: dex +2
    Level 19: con +2

    Figure since bladesinger works with TWF might as well try it out.

    Obviously wizard is viable in general but thoughts on the feats and concept? Seem worthwhile to do?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2020

    Default Re: Build advice/feedback- bladesinger with sick stats

    Well I don't know what race your playing but in general going over what you've got:

    Stats -
    Str- 8
    Dex- 16 —> 17
    Con- 16
    Int- 18 —> 19
    Wis- 14
    Cha- 12
    Feat: Warcaster

    Opinions: Look to be well done so no problem here. Personally would try to start with a 20 intelligence as it allows you to move more freely with your future ASIs' when your main attribute is capped. As for your feat, I think either something to get your intelligence to 20 or perhaps Resilient Con. I typically go for Res Con over Warcaster since proficiency in the save grows as you level and can be more flexible in the long run; however, as a bladesinger you'll be able to opportunity attack with booming blade using Warcaster so I think it's probably worth it.


    ASI -
    Level 4: dex and int +1
    Level 8: fighting initiate: two weapon fighting
    Level 12: Dual Wielder
    Level 16: dex +2
    Level 19: con +2

    Opinions:
    Level 4: Good to see your capping the intelligence but you either should do it earlier on or do so with perhaps a feat. Maybe take Observant to cap the intelligence and become the investigation bot that your party needs in dungeons.
    Level 8: Using dexterity this will eventually mean +5 to your damage with each bonus action hit. That's fair but I personally don't think 5 damage is worth a feat. Dueling could serve you better as if all your attacks hit it would provide a collective +4 to your total damage and is far more reliable. Defense would also prove useful in making your AC even more ridiculous.
    Level 12: Dual Wielder and TWF as a whole is not particularly amazing in DnD. As a bladesinger I think you'd find more use casting Spirit Shroud with a bonus action then just doing your weaker off-hand attack for some more Spirit Shroud dice. Sticking to the one cool magic weapon is the better statistical play; but, TWF still has its power and looks cool.
    Level 16: Capping your dexterity means better AC and better chance to hit when swinging a weapon. Nothing bad to say about this one.
    Level 19: This is debatable whether or not it's worth getting. At this level it'd mean +1 to con saves and 19 more hp, a good deal; however, I would still suggest getting resilient con even if it meant your constitution was an odd number. With warcaster and your array of stats it'd mean that when you get inevitably hit by a meteor storm and need to make a concentration check, you'd have +9 to the save and advantage vs +3 and advantage but you have 19 more hp as a buffer against the damage you just took. Once you hit 19th level that hp is nice to have but you will be saying goodbye to it quite quickly. If you have a cleric you're likely going to eat a heroes' feat before a big battle which adds 2d10 to your max hp which equates to somewhere around the ballpark of your +2 con's hp bonus.


    Final thoughts:
    At level 6 you'll have two attacks (one booming blade and one sword smack) and TWF would let you use your bonus action to do one more hit; but, this would be at the cost of two feats, a price which I don't believe is worth the benefits. Your stats are quite awesome and you'll find yourself to be an AC monster who boasts an ac of 20 whilst bladesinging at Level 2 (give or take depending on if you get that Int to 20). Damage wise you'll see it be boosted at level 5 with the addition of spells like Spirit Shroud, allowing your strikes (assuming a rapier) to be about 1d8+1d8 (spirit shroud) + 1d8 (booming blade) + 4. That's around 18 average damage for the booming blade hit and 13 for the follow up strikes. That's some good damage!


    Bonus Suggestion - Swap the Wisdom and Charisma to take 2 levels of Paladin

    Since you're going to be fighting in the front as a Bladesinger, you could boost your damage to exuberant amounts if you multiclass 2 levels into paladin, gaining smites. This would obviously put you on the back end when it comes to your ASIs and wizard levels, denying you that 19th level ASI in particular; but, you gain the ability to convert your spell slots into herculean levels of damage. It'll initially feel bad to lose out on those two wizard levels whenever you'd choose to multiclass but once you get smites it'll be a whole new world of pain for your foes.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: Build advice/feedback- bladesinger with sick stats

    Thanks for the feedback.
    I like the idea of going Paladin in most games but my friends still new to dming so trying to not go full optimization on him just yet and most everyone else is new as well, with me as the “old hand”.

    Almost full casting plus smites would be a bit overpowering compared to what everyone else is bringing to the table. I’m looking to basically add a bit of power to melee while letting the newbie feel good with their great weapon fighter for “big” melee damage.

    I figure bladesinger will let me provide him backup while doing what wizard do best; stay in the background, make the battle easy but do so in a way that lets everyone else feel like they did the hard work!

    You make great points with the dual weapon. Honestly I know it’s a trap but I just kind of liked the style of it. You make a good point about spirit shroud though that’s just one round needed to cast, so could still theoretically use TWF after spirit shroud is up in subsequent rounds.

    If I didn’t go TWF I’d likely drop the fighting initiate entirely. +2 damage for two attacks is less useful than +5 damage for three attacks, though defensive may be an option. Maybe I can get lucky or craft myself a rapier of speed, can have the best of both worlds then..

    Or go crazy and take gunner. Primitive firearms are allowed in the campaign so could be a “pistol”singer with fire bolt

    Getting 20 int at level 1 was also pretty tempting. Warcaster works well in general for all its aspects as TWF: I can cast with both hands filled with weapons, the concentration saves, and the OA as you noted.
    Still, I could drop dual wielder, take observant (though as a new dm I don’t know how often the dm would use passive investigation. I’d probably do skill expert to be honest, get expertise in something like investigation or arcana if I did)

    Race is variant human. We aren’t using custom lineage stuff in this game.
    Last edited by Mikal; 2022-01-26 at 12:24 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2020

    Default Re: Build advice/feedback- bladesinger with sick stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikal View Post
    Thanks for the feedback.
    If I didn’t go TWF I’d likely drop the fighting initiate entirely. +2 damage for two attacks is less useful than +5 damage for three attacks, though defensive may be an option. Maybe I can get lucky or craft myself a rapier of speed, can have the best of both worlds then..
    Actually it would only be +5 damage for your one swing of the offhand which requires your bonus action. Never know if you're gonna need to re-up spirit shroud or do a misty step so the +2 to two absolute hits is more reliable then the chance you may do a swing with the BA.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: Build advice/feedback- bladesinger with sick stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Melphizard View Post
    Actually it would only be +5 damage for your one swing of the offhand which requires your bonus action. Never know if you're gonna need to re-up spirit shroud or do a misty step so the +2 to two absolute hits is more reliable then the chance you may do a swing with the BA.
    That’s what I get for posting before bed… yeah you’re right.

    Also can’t do the Paladin multiclass mentioned earlier either though- need str and cha to do so and str is the dump stay here.

    So moving away from TWF so far… maybe into defensive. I like the high AC at that point I think

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2021

    Default Re: Build advice/feedback- bladesinger with sick stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikal View Post
    Getting ready to join a game a friend is running, and using dice rolls for it.

    Got lucky (with him witnessing) the rolls and got
    18 16 16 14 12 8

    Decided to go with wizard because I haven’t got a chance to be one in forever. Also decided to go ahead and be a little useful in melee so decided to go bladesinger for it. Currently thinking of actually trying two weapon fighting along with it, so I can booming or green flame blade when needed, with two weapon attacks, eventually adding intelligence to the damage as well when blade singing. That way I can provide decent damage if needed in melee when not using spells to do battlefield or crowd control.

    As such stats go like this along with feats

    Str- 8
    Dex- 16 —> 17
    Con- 16
    Int- 18 —> 19
    Wis- 14
    Cha- 12
    Feat: Warcaster

    Level 4: dex and int +1
    Level 8: fighting initiate: two weapon fighting
    Level 12: Dual Wielder
    Level 16: dex +2
    Level 19: con +2

    Figure since bladesinger works with TWF might as well try it out.

    Obviously wizard is viable in general but thoughts on the feats and concept? Seem worthwhile to do?
    you'll be in melee so not sure I'd dump Str over Cha. Also, your in melee with booming blade, and hopefully concentrating on a spell, so War Caster is a must.
    Next, Duel Wielding is terribad, just don't do it =/ I wish they would fix it, I really do.

    ASI's:
    Level 4: War Caster
    Level 8: Int+2
    Level 12: Tough
    Level 16: dex +2
    Level 19: dex +2

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: Build advice/feedback- bladesinger with sick stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Pildion View Post
    you'll be in melee so not sure I'd dump Str over Cha. Also, your in melee with booming blade, and hopefully concentrating on a spell, so War Caster is a must.
    Next, Duel Wielding is terribad, just don't do it =/ I wish they would fix it, I really do.

    ASI's:
    Level 4: War Caster
    Level 8: Int+2
    Level 12: Tough
    Level 16: dex +2
    Level 19: dex +2
    Yeah I’ll be in melee but using a finesse weapon, not str based so the strength dump would be like most any dexterity based meleeist.

    And so far the nays have pushed me away from TWF. Lol

    I’m taking Warcaster as my level 1 v human feat so no need for it at level 4
    Last edited by Mikal; 2022-01-26 at 08:44 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2017

    Default Re: Build advice/feedback- bladesinger with sick stats

    You can't use TWF until 6th level when you pick up extra attack and the ability to cast a cantrip instead of an attack. Prior to that, the requirement of TWF to take the Attack Action makes in incompatible with booming blade and the Cast a Spell action.

    Combine that with the cost of 2 two feats to make TWF more viable and I don't see the value (you can still TWF anyway if you desperately need to land an attack as long as both weapons are light).

    As for Warcaster - I usually prefer Resilient con - towards the end of tier 2 (level 9 - +4 proficiency bonus) Resilient con will often give a better chance to make the concentration save. As a bladesinger, you won't be using a shield so you will usually have a hand free for spellcasting - which leaves the main benefit to warcaster being the ability to cast a cantrip on an op attack - which honestly doesn't happen that often in my experience, op attacks just aren't that common since most monsters don't want to get hit more often than necessary. Finally, while bladesinging you add your int modifier to concentration checks - with 20 int, that is a +5, with resilient con and even a 16 con that would give +10 and an automatic pass for any DC10 concentration check at level 1 and it improves from there. Warcaster will never give you automatic saves though the odds of passing a DC10 save are very high even with just warcaster.

    Honestly, warcaster just doesn't seem worth it unless you really want the option to cast a cantrip as an op attack.

    Feats I would consider:
    Resilient con
    Mobile - can be loads of fun on bladesinger if the party has other "tanky" characters - this also makes booming blade much more effective since the target you attack is more likely to need to move which triggers the rider damage (at least if you avoid attacking a target already in range of another party member)
    Fey Touched - an extra Misty step is great, you also have it always prepared - you can also pick up hex, bless or another option depending on the rest of the party. Hex is useful for those times when you just want to do some more damage though I would expect you will usually have something better to concentrate on.

    I might do something like:
    Start: Mobile
    Lvl 4: Resilient con
    Lvl 8 : Fey touched
    Lvl 12: +1 con +1 dex
    Lvl 16: +2 dex
    Lvl 19: +2 con (?) ... 20 int, 20 dex, 20 con by level 20 :)

    If Mobile isn't interesting then move it all up by 1..

    Start: Resilient con
    Lvl 4: either fey touched or +1 con, +1 dex (gives 18 in each stat at level 4 which is pretty good).
    Lvl 8: The option not taken at level 4
    ...

    In this case, I think my preferred option would be to bump con and dex at level 4. Waiting for 20 int until level 8 should be fine and if you want to play into the melee aspect of the bladesinger - more dex and con might be preferable.
    Last edited by Keravath; 2022-01-26 at 02:37 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2020

    Default Re: Build advice/feedback- bladesinger with sick stats

    Go Pal2/Hexblade1/WarWizX
    Elf or Half-Elf to taste.
    Elven Accuracy
    Blind-fighting style with Pal

    Smite crits all day with super-advantage + 19-20 range for boss fights. Plenty of ways to get advantage with wiz, and plenty of slots for smites.

    If ya get relly lucky, get Illusionist's Bracers as well for 2x Booming Blade. If not, Haste = BB+2x attacks to proc smites.

    Also, War Wizard is endlessly useful for the init bonus to set the terms of engagement and the Arcane Defelction for dungeon crawling.

    Got one and it's great. No problems in ToA or Dead in Thay, and plenty of epic smites.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Dec 2020

    Default Re: Build advice/feedback- bladesinger with sick stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikal View Post
    Getting ready to join a game a friend is running, and using dice rolls for it.

    Got lucky (with him witnessing) the rolls and got
    18 16 16 14 12 8

    Decided to go with wizard because I haven’t got a chance to be one in forever. Also decided to go ahead and be a little useful in melee so decided to go bladesinger for it. Currently thinking of actually trying two weapon fighting along with it, so I can booming or green flame blade when needed, with two weapon attacks, eventually adding intelligence to the damage as well when blade singing. That way I can provide decent damage if needed in melee when not using spells to do battlefield or crowd control.

    As such stats go like this along with feats

    Str- 8
    Dex- 16 —> 17
    Con- 16
    Int- 18 —> 19
    Wis- 14
    Cha- 12
    Feat: Warcaster

    Level 4: dex and int +1
    Level 8: fighting initiate: two weapon fighting
    Level 12: Dual Wielder
    Level 16: dex +2
    Level 19: con +2

    Figure since bladesinger works with TWF might as well try it out.

    Obviously wizard is viable in general but thoughts on the feats and concept? Seem worthwhile to do?
    If you want to do Two Weapon Fighting, start fighter 1 for con save, pick any full Elf as your race, and pick up Revenant Blade at Wizard 4. I am currently playing this build at Level 11. Your weapon will be the Double Bladed Scimitar. It gives you a BA d4 die attack for free if you use the attack action. Main attacks have 2d4+Attack Mod for damage

    My first move is to cut on Spirit Shroud (at 5th level), then slice into the enemy for an average of 52 damage per round (2d8 Booming B + 4d4 Weapon Dmg + 4d8 radiant damage + 10 Dex Mod first round, 8d8 + 5d4 + 15 damage on consecutive rounds, 70 avg).

    A really solid secondary choice is to go Ranged Bladesinger, especially with those stats. You still start fighter 1, but you go Custome lineage for Crossbow expert at Level 1, Sharpshooter at Level 4, and utilize Greater Invis at higher levels in order to crank up some truly impressive single target damage on a wizard. The benefit of this build over the previous one is you are still absolutely dominate on a battlefield even if you can't access magic for whatever reason (Beholder, Out of Spells, etc).

    I've ran both of these builds, and they are by far My favorite ways to play bladesinger.
    Last edited by Omni-Centrist; 2022-01-27 at 10:28 AM.

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