The Non-GW Miniature Wargaming Thread

[Easy e]

Greetings All,

I have been a miniature wargamer since Reagan was President. Since RPGs are an off-shoot of wargaming, I figured this board may have a few Wargamers on it as well. We have a thread for the main GW games like AoS and Warhammer 40K, so this thread is to talk about the other miniature wargames out there!

This thread is time period and genre agnostic. It doesn't matter if you are into Nappies, WWII, Sci-Fi, Fantasy, or Ancients; this thread is the place to talk about it. This thread is also a great place to share pictures too!

So, to get this thread started here are some of the games I played in 2021:

- Blood Bowl (GW)
- Blucher (Sam Mustafa)
- Battletech (Catalyst Games)
- Men of Bronze (Osprey)
- Wars of the Republic (Osprey)


Wars of the Republic


Blood Bowl


Battletech

What do you play most regularly (outside of 40K and AoS)? Pictures are always welcome!

[Thane of Fife]

I can say in 2021 I played some

-Perfidious Albion (A&A)
-Song of Blades & Heroes (Ganesha)
-Fear and Faith (Ganesha)
-Broadsword Adventures (Rattrap)
-Heroclix (Wizkids)
-And One for All! (Eureka)

There might have been some other stuff I don't remember, but most of the wargames I play are of the board variety, rather than miniatures games.

- Blucher (Sam Mustafa)

Blucher is a game I've looked into before but never actually acquired. How is it?

[Requizen]

Blood Bowl

Those are some great looking Lizards! I've been playing Nobility and Elven Union, though I want to get my Halflings painted as well. In particular, I've really been enjoying Dungeon Bowl and 7s a bit more than full size Blood Bowl, but even the base game is super fun in this edition imo.

[Easy e]

Blucher is a game I've looked into before but never actually acquired. How is it?

You can find out some of my thoughts about Blucher and a quick review here:
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.c...ng-danube.html

As for your list, I have not played many of those. I did read the rules for:

And One For All
Song of Blades and Heroes

But have not got them on the table yet. I am not a huge fan of Ganesha Games style personally, but that is my own hang-ups! They are solid rules.

@Requizen- Thanks for the compliment. I think someday I need to jazz up the bases, but I do not like basing.

[Easy e]

What genre are your Non-GW wargames in? Do you find yourself focusing on one genre, or spreading out?

I mostly play:
Ancients
Sci-Fi
and Air/Naval wargames

I have thought seriously about Napoleonic's, but have not pulled the trigger yet.

How about you?

[Bavarian itP]

How is BattleTech doing these days?

[Easy e]

How is BattleTech doing these days?

Still the same basic game, BUT they have released new plastic Mechs that are modern and WAY better than anything they have produced before. The new Game of Armored Combat boxed set and the Alpha Strike stuff are all pretty popular. Catalyst Games has been handling the IP pretty.

If you use to play, I think you would enjoy checking it out.

[Otomodachi]

Battletech seems awesome; also I'm pretty intrigued by Infinity and Malifaux (and the other side, I like the *setting*). If any of you have Tabletop Simulator and are up for being patient with a noob, my discord is Erisian#8252. I'll watch videos and read to learn the rules, I promise.

I am mostly dedicated to hardcore lurking in these forums cuz I think I am a vaguely bad fit and genuinely don't want to be disruptive, but between living in a small island and the pandemic I am really looking for online hobbies. My social skills shine a lot better one on one or in smaller groups.

Ancient games are interesting to me, too, as well as space armada stuff. I like pushing little things around and making pew pew noises!

[Requizen]

Battletech seems awesome; also I'm pretty intrigued by Infinity and Malifaux (and the other side, I like the *setting*). If any of you have Tabletop Simulator and are up for being patient with a noob, my discord is Erisian#8252. I'll watch videos and read to learn the rules, I promise.

I am mostly dedicated to hardcore lurking in these forums cuz I think I am a vaguely bad fit and genuinely don't want to be disruptive, but between living in a small island and the pandemic I am really looking for online hobbies. My social skills shine a lot better one on one or in smaller groups.

Ancient games are interesting to me, too, as well as space armada stuff. I like pushing little things around and making pew pew noises!

Malifaux is one that seems really fun, but there's almost no one around here who plays, or even played pre-pandemic. But yeah the setting is great - I love horror and westerns, so it's basically perfect, and the idea of using cards instead of dice is super interesting.

[Bavarian itP]

If you use to play, I think you would enjoy checking it out.

Honestly, I've never played Battletech. I'm just interested in the fluff. In what year are they now?

[Easy e]

Honestly, I've never played Battletech. I'm just interested in the fluff. In what year are they now?

No idea. Never really got into it. I have the 25th Anniversary Boxed Set, but never really went beyond that.

Got any War Machine or Infinity players lurking out there? How about X-wing?

[Dire_Flumph]

Got any War Machine or Infinity players lurking out there? How about X-wing?

Still play X-Wing and Armada remains one of my favorite games ever. Though between a move and the pandemic my playtime has sharply decreased.

Both were handed over from FFG to Atomic Mass Games who seem to be content to let them die. X-Wing is still getting some releases, but not many (got my pre-order in for the Razor Crest though).

Armada might as well be cancelled even if they won't say so. At least from a Rebellion vs Empire perspective though, that game is pretty much complete with plenty of options for fleet building. Galactic Republic vs Separatists still feels very lacking in comparison with a scant 2 waves.

[Squark]

Avid fan of Armada and X-wing, here.

According to AMG, the issue with Armada is that most of the back-catalogue was out of print, which made it very difficult/impossible for new players to get into the game. So they want to focus on getting old product back in stock. Dunno how that will work out for Armada long term, but we'll see.

As for X-wing, AMG is definitely not letting the game die, although a certain subset of the community thinks they're killing it*. AMG's just put most of their efforts at the moment into rules revision rather than designing new ships. They just released a substantial rules overhaul yesterday that amounts to a X-wing 2.5;

-Player Order is now determined randomly from round to round- after dials are set
-"Bumping" was significantly overhauled
-Obstacles were changed to be more impactful but less random
-Scenario Play is now the default competitive mode (although one of the four scenarios is mostly a dogfight with a token objective to discourage camping in the corner or along the sides)
-Squad Building was completely revamped. The new system, while a little more complicated, does a lot to address a number of squad building "traps" that existed.

AMG definitely seems to be pushing the competitive side of the game, hard. There's a lot of discussion on the dedicated X-wing communities about whether or not this is beneficial for the "average" player. Personally, I feel they've increased the initial learning curve slightly, but patched out a lot of design flaws that had been discovered over the years that could be a big problem once you were aware of them.


*I'm not one of them, for the record.

[Dire_Flumph]

X-Wing still has more life in it, sure, AMG just doesn't seem to have as much interest in it as FFG did. I haven't played the updated ruleset yet, so I can't comment on it, but I'm hoping to get back into playing more regularly in a bit. Just got my Mandalore card pack in today and it's got me in the mood for some list building.

Armada though....I will be thrilled to be proven wrong, but they let go of the entire Armada team, admitted last year they don't really have anything new in the pipeline for at least another year with no indication that they are even working on something. Not even a tease. What little they did release for Organized play last year didn't even signal that they understood the game very well. Armada could make a comeback, and I don't mean to be down on AMG who certainly didn't ask to have Armada dropped in their lap, but I find I'm happier to manage expectations, assume the game is essentially done, and any further releases will just be a pleasant surprise (I was sure beyond happy two years ago when the Clone Wars stuff was finally announced). At least they got Venators out the door first, that was my last must have from the films that wasn't available.

[Easy e]

Avid fan of Armada and X-wing, here

As for X-wing, AMG is definitely not letting the game die, although a certain subset of the community thinks they're killing it*.

Isn't there always. :)

As a Pro-Am (Professional Amateur) designer myself, I often wonder exactly how important the "competitive" aspect of a game is to its overall success in the market. I hear a very vocal minority talking about how a "tight" and "competitive" game is better for the tourney player and the casual; but I am not convinced.

I also have a feeling that a tighter, more competitive game strangles the life out of games. As you point out, the barrier of entry gets higher. Once you do that, you then get a ever shrinking collection of players as the barriers are too high/unwelcoming for new players and a percentage of old players leave because you are always "killing" their game. This leaves the game with either a diminishing pool of players that can not sustain the game, or no further room left to design in as all niches are met.

Secondly Competitive players really just want to narrow the channel of ways a game can be played into predictable, controllable, and measurable avenues so those knowns can be countered by known counters. I am again not sure if this is better for "casuals" as once a game is "solved" it is less likely to gain new players. Do you see a ton of Checkers leagues starting up?

I have seen War Machine, Guild Ball, and X-wing all struggle with this issue. I also foresee it happening to Marvel Crisis Protocol at some point as well. Short term, competitive and tight systems sell. Long term, they seem to fizzle and die. Meanwhile, uncompetitive but easy to learn systems like AoS, 40K, etc. continue to carry-on.

It is better for a casual player to have a larger pool of players, with design space to grow than to have a shrinking game that is competitive? I am not sure which is better. I just think there is room to discuss this point further than we normally see online.



Edit: They are changing the X-wing play order to random? That seems like an odd choice. One of the best things about X-wing (1.0) that I recall was the pilot rating setting up moving priority for skilled pilots to move second and shoot first?

[Requizen]

Speaking of Armada being put on the back-back-burner (which isn't even lit), I've been reading and doing a couple test games of Warfleets: FTL by One Page Rules and it's a pretty solid little fleet combat system. Like all their stuff, they keep the rules super lightweight, though it's still got everything you want out of a fleet game - various ship sizes, different weapon types, limited mobility and facings, broadside shooting, ramming, and asteroids. I'm enjoying it enough to throw together some 2d printed fleets (still haven't thrown down for a 3D printer yet) and force some friends to play with me.

Also, 2D tabletop hobby is more fun that I expected it to be, simple but effective:

[Dragonus45]

Speaking of Armada being put on the back-back-burner (which isn't even lit), I've been reading and doing a couple test games of Warfleets: FTL by One Page Rules and it's a pretty solid little fleet combat system. Like all their stuff, they keep the rules super lightweight, though it's still got everything you want out of a fleet game - various ship sizes, different weapon types, limited mobility and facings, broadside shooting, ramming, and asteroids. I'm enjoying it enough to throw together some 2d printed fleets (still haven't thrown down for a 3D printer yet) and force some friends to play with me.

Also, 2D tabletop hobby is more fun that I expected it to be, simple but effective:

Ohhhh that looks cool. I'll have to check it out.

[Easy e]

Elevating them off the base is surprisingly effective!

[stack]

Mostly skirmish scale things for me.

A Billion Suns (Osprey)
Frostgrave (Osprey)
Stargrave (Osprey)
Core Space (Battle Systems, though this is getting out of 'wargaming' into other categories)
Gaslands (Osprey)
D&D Attack Wing
X-Wing (2nd ed.)

[Requizen]

Elevating them off the base is surprisingly effective!

Yeah, I saw someone else in the OPR chat do it and I like it quite a bit. Only takes a bit of time and a sharp knife, so for poorhammer it's great. I'm gonna do some other 2D stuff for their Skirmish wargames as well, it's a fun diversion away from painting plastic.

I actually have the STL files for all their current FTL fleets, but no printer. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and just get and Ender 3. Not as good for minis as a resin printer, but I'm also a crappy painter so some layer lines won't really kill the overall vibe and I can use it for all sorts of random stuff around the house.

[Easy e]

3D printing is a hobby onto itself! You have been warned. :)

[PraetorDragoon]

Somehow I missed this thread.

Currently I'm (semi-)actively playing the following:

Bushido (GCT studios) - Fantasy-Feudal Japan themed skirmish game.
Moonstone (Goblin King Games) - Whimsical fantasy skirmish game that uses cards for magic/combat resultion and doesn't use points for troupe creation.
Malifaux (Wyrd Games) - Victorian Wild West Steampunk skirmish game that uses a deck of playing cards to resolve actions.
Wild West Exodus (Warcradle Studios) - Dieselpunk Weird West game. Is between warband and skirmish level, as it can vary from small character based posses to larger unit bases detachments. Somehow manages to work decently together. Uses d10s.
Dragon Rampant (Osprey Blue Book) - Quick and dirty way to get a fantasy army game on the table.
Carnevale (TTCombat) Alt-history Venitian skirmish game with magic. Uses d10s. Has some of the best vertical and water gameplay I have seen, and the upcoming expansion seems to improve on it. Before you ask, yes, you can grapple and throw enemies from the rooftop into the canals below.

[Erloas]

Gaslands is what I've played the most "recently." It's good and I think it will be good to get my partner more familiar with wargames but something about it just doesn't really scratch my wargame itch quite right.

I really liked the Dystopian Wars models and the game seemed good before, but I never actually got a game in. I bought pretty big into the kickstarted but didn't get anything from it after Spartan Games went under. The way the owner (lead designer? PR person?) of Warcradle approached and interacted with the existing community of Dystopian Wars after Warcradle bought the rights really put me off wanting to support the company, so I really haven't looked at it much since then.

What I'm really missing is Battletech. I think I might actually be able to get some games in fairly soon, but that is waiting to be seen. I had a lot of 'Mechs at one point but last I looked through my models there were quite a few I couldn't find, but that was only briefly looking after having moved 4 times in the last 6ish years.

[Easy e]

I have been seeing Battletech replacing War Machine as part of the Big Three at many local stores. Marvel Crisis Protocol also seems to be on the rise, but I do not expect that to last more than a season.

It used to be GW, X-wing, and then War Machine. Now, I am seeing X-wing and War Machine decline and Battletech growing.

I have also seen Malifaux, Infinity, and Batman rise and fall at the FLGS, with spurts of interest locally and then nothing. Flames of War used to be popular, but now that seems to be dead, dead, dead.

[Aliess]

I loved old dystopian wars, but even by the end of that some of the ship designs were getting a bit wacky for my liking. The Warcradle move killed it for me.
Mostly playing warmaster ancients (still GW I suppose) at the moment.

[Requizen]

I have been seeing Battletech replacing War Machine as part of the Big Three at many local stores. Marvel Crisis Protocol also seems to be on the rise, but I do not expect that to last more than a season.

It used to be GW, X-wing, and then War Machine. Now, I am seeing X-wing and War Machine decline and Battletech growing.

I have also seen Malifaux, Infinity, and Batman rise and fall at the FLGS, with spurts of interest locally and then nothing. Flames of War used to be popular, but now that seems to be dead, dead, dead.

This is really what makes me reluctant to try many non-GW games. As much as I'd love to foster more diversity in the tabletop gaming space and try other stuff, I've seen too many communities grow quickly and disappear to really get invested. MCP seems to have some staying power just based on the Marvel license and ease of entry, but I'm not exactly placing bets on its longevity.

Not to say Infinity, Malifaux, X-Wing, or historicals are dead, they'll always live in their niche, but the amount of community you have available to play any GW game outstrips them. Even the minor ones like Aeronautica and Titanicus would be considered great successes for a lot of these companies.

Part of the reason I'm enjoying One Page Rules is the mini-agnostic-ness of it. I'm loathe to buy into, say, A Song of Ice And Fire, despite it seeming really fun, because I don't want to build and paint a game whose community I wouldn't be surprised disappeared in a few years time.

[Erloas]

Not to say Infinity, Malifaux, X-Wing, or historicals are dead, they'll always live in their niche, but the amount of community you have available to play any GW game outstrips them. Even the minor ones like Aeronautica and Titanicus would be considered great successes for a lot of these companies.

Part of the reason I'm enjoying One Page Rules is the mini-agnostic-ness of it. I'm loathe to buy into, say, A Song of Ice And Fire, despite it seeming really fun, because I don't want to build and paint a game whose community I wouldn't be surprised disappeared in a few years time.

One of the reasons I started Dystopian Wars was that I really loved the model designs, so I figured it would be enough of a hobby by itself just building and painting them. Where I was living at the time 40k was essentially the only choice and I had pretty much came to the conclusion that if 40k was my only option for wargaming then I was simply done wargaming. (I found the design of 40k pretty lacking on so many levels, then combined with GW's actions and the very high cost it just wasn't worth it.)

That is also why I like Gaslands, the rules are simple enough that you can play it at most points where you could play a board games (at least if you put in a little effort beforehand to make lists if some players aren't into it). With the models being very cheap and the modeling requirements being essentially optional means there is a big investment to play or for new players to start their own collections.

[Easy e]

This is really what makes me reluctant to try many non-GW games. As much as I'd love to foster more diversity in the tabletop gaming space and try other stuff, I've seen too many communities grow quickly and disappear to really get invested. MCP seems to have some staying power just based on the Marvel license and ease of entry, but I'm not exactly placing bets on its longevity.

Not to say Infinity, Malifaux, X-Wing, or historicals are dead, they'll always live in their niche, but the amount of community you have available to play any GW game outstrips them. Even the minor ones like Aeronautica and Titanicus would be considered great successes for a lot of these companies.

Part of the reason I'm enjoying One Page Rules is the mini-agnostic-ness of it. I'm loathe to buy into, say, A Song of Ice And Fire, despite it seeming really fun, because I don't want to build and paint a game whose community I wouldn't be surprised disappeared in a few years time.

I am with you. I never really buy models anymore unless I can use them in multiple game systems. In your example, if I bought A Song of Ice and Fire, I could still use those models with a variety of games such as Oathmark, Restless Hordes, Hordes of the Things, One-page rules, WHFB (various editions), an Osprey Bluebook, Frostgrave, D&D, and many, many others.

The challenge is other people willing to play. To facilitate this, I make sure I have enough for two sides of any game so even if it "dies" I can play it indefinitely. However, with such an approach I have to be willing to really commit to the games models. Even if I will end up using them in something else from time to time.

I bought into All Quiet on the Martian Front and that game is long dead and buried. However, I still have used my Martian Tripods in various model and scale agnostic games. They have fought space marines, orks, gangsters, stormtroopers, and more. Plus, I still have a Martian and American force for when I want to play All Quiet on the Martian Front too!

[Requizen]

One of the reasons I started Dystopian Wars was that I really loved the model designs, so I figured it would be enough of a hobby by itself just building and painting them.

The painting side of the hobby is less important to me than the gaming side, so I'm kind of the opposite. Lots of cool models for various systems out there (I really dig Malifaux and Infinity stuff), but personally if I paint something and then rarely or never game with it, it feels "wasted" to me as I don't enjoy that process as much.

I am with you. I never really buy models anymore unless I can use them in multiple game systems. In your example, if I bought A Song of Ice and Fire, I could still use those models with a variety of games such as Oathmark, Restless Hordes, Hordes of the Things, One-page rules, WHFB (various editions), an Osprey Bluebook, Frostgrave, D&D, and many, many others.

The challenge is other people willing to play. To facilitate this, I make sure I have enough for two sides of any game so even if it "dies" I can play it indefinitely. However, with such an approach I have to be willing to really commit to the games models. Even if I will end up using them in something else from time to time.

I bought into All Quiet on the Martian Front and that game is long dead and buried. However, I still have used my Martian Tripods in various model and scale agnostic games. They have fought space marines, orks, gangsters, stormtroopers, and more. Plus, I still have a Martian and American force for when I want to play All Quiet on the Martian Front too!

Yeah, getting a box and being able to do a random pickup game is a cool way to do things. I think if I scale back my current collection, supplementing it with various starter boxes that I can pull out whenever might be enjoyable.

[Easy e]

I just finished reading the A Billion Suns rule book. It is full of interesting ideas...... but it feels like it went too far away from what I wanted to play in space. I do not think this will be the next Gaslands or 'Grave book. It almost felt more like a "Dudes on a Board" style game, which is a wargame/board game cross over like a Dungeon Crawler or Memoir '44.

That said, if you have tried it I would love to hear your take on it.