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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    So, now it's time I start on the Golden Deer route. I'll need to figure out exactly how New Game+ works - don't want to carry over character levels for Shez or other characters I'll actually be using, but if I can do it without carrying that over, might be nice to do so.
    You can reset to level 1 at the training ground. It keeps stat boosts from items though.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    You can reset to level 1 at the training ground. It keeps stat boosts from items though.
    I thought of that, but the trouble is that it doesn't reset other things that power up your characters. Class levels and skills in particular. I'd like to carry over things like supports and items, but without those; but that's not an option. So I wound up just not using New Game+.

    Just got out of the prologue. Two things surprised me so far: one, rescuing Monica in chapter 2 being route-agnostic. I kind of assumed that was a Black Eagles thing and the other houses would have a different thing they were up to in that chapter. The second being the new character they introduced in chapter 3.
    Spoiler: Golden Deer
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    I wasn't expecting Claude to have a brother that would just abruptly show up, full new character design and all, who is in line to be Almyra's next king no less. Obviously we knew Claude was Almyran, and probably connected to the leadership over there, but dang. I kind of figured defending Fodlan's Locket was just a distraction for the Alliance during the pre-war period, so I wasn't expecting anyone new to be leading the Almyran attack there.

    Also, cool trivia bit to find out Claude's real name is Khalid.
    Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!

    "When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    So. I've gotten a decent way through Edelgard's campaign by now and I must say

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    Edelgard is somehow even more of a horrible person than in Three Houses, where she was still stuck working with TWSITD. Not just her, but her whole cadre of loyalists are just... terrible and I'm feeling very demotivated to continue this storyline. Hopefully Dmitri's path will be a decent palate cleanser after all these warcrimes.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post
    So. I've gotten a decent way through Edelgard's campaign by now and I must say

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    Edelgard is somehow even more of a horrible person than in Three Houses, where she was still stuck working with TWSITD. Not just her, but her whole cadre of loyalists are just... terrible and I'm feeling very demotivated to continue this storyline. Hopefully Dmitri's path will be a decent palate cleanser after all these warcrimes.
    Luckily

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    Claude's only war crime is sacrificing allies so his side can get out with major casualties.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Double post I know, but finished the Golden Wildfire Route and..

    Spoiler: Golden Wildfire
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    I feel like there's DLC coming that will actually finish the story. Ending as it did, with all the unexplained stuff we got...either that or they really rushed the story. I know it's a Musou game and the story isn't exactly the reason to play but it is a Fire Emblem skin it's wearing and "well, the fighting continues" is hardly satisfying. Age of Calamity, it would seem, still takes my top spot for favorite Musou game...should probably boot that up again and finish the last leg to 100%ing it. Grinding those stupid seeds...only thing I hated.

    But on to Golden Wildfire. It would have been nice to know what Claude's actual ambition was. I can guess it considering I finished Three Houses but I think that's part of my problem with the game. The writing was fun, it was cool to see all the differences but as the game kept going the changes stopped and we were left with the same characters we had in Three Houses. I beat all four storylines on that, I don't need more of the same. It leaves me wondering who they wrote this game for exactly. It's not for new players, it's a side game in a different genre so it's not going to appeal to new players and for people who know the source material...at least for me....I don't need the 100th Bernie is scared to go outside gag reel. It all just felt a little too similar for me to really gel with. Shez isn't an interesting enough character to engage with, nor is he blank enough a template to just ignore like Byleth was in Three Houses.

    That said, the combat was fun. I never used anyone else but Shez, that added mobility is just so nice but I generally do that in Musou games anyway. Pick a main, stick with that main all the way.

    I'll echo everyone else's feelings that the classes really don't feel too different overall and I found myself really just not enjoying the few that I tried. Hoping to expand and experiment more in NG+ but overall, the overwhelming Mage-centric gameplay of Golden Wildfire and Bow gameplay left me a little wanting. I'm also grumpy that other than the sword users there is no non-mounted routes for a lot of classes.


    On to Blue Lion, following my path of Golden Deer, Blue Lion, Black Eagle like I did with Three Houses. If there's DLC...I'll probably pick it up. Musou games are my pick up and put on a podcast game, more Musou content isn't a bad thing to me.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    How many "Parts" are there for each story line? I just reached Part II of Golden Wildfire. I'm a little annoyed that

    Spoiler: Plot Development
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    Claude decided to ally with Edie because Edie is a pretty terrible person.


    I'm also somewhat disgruntled about

    Spoiler: Plot Development
    Show
    Sothis's characterization when she chats with Byleth. I get that having her memories might alter her personality somewhat, but she was just so flipping nice in the original that having her be so mean to Byleth was jarring. I liked Sothis in the original game and wished there was more post-fusion Sothis content aside from the S-rank Support.


    Trying to get S-ranks on the missions is incredibly annoying, mostly because kill count and time limit are at odds with one another. If I try to primarily use one character and rely on orders to other characters to fulfill objectives in other parts of the map, I don't get the kills from the minions the other characters would have faced. If I split my focus and keep switching characters, I'm stuck with the choice of farming enemies for the kill count or focusing fire on the enemies that have break gauges. If I do the latter, I still run the risk of not getting enough kills, but I'm generally safe on time. If I do the former, I'm good on kills but run up against the time limit. Due to the way that you don't know what the actual objectives of each battle is going in (the continual updating of the mission is somewhat annoying for this), it's hard to judge when I'm spending to much time on kills versus not enough.

    There's always replaying the missions, but then there's the decision of whether to do so immediately (and have only my extra knowledge going for me but no other advantages) or to do so once I'm over-leveled (in which case I have to be careful not to accidentally finish the objectives before I've got enough kills, which means not letting my AI-allies run hog wild).

    People have mentioned mages being a big thing in Golden Deer, but I don't see it. The monk-line attack combos are terrible, (I had an easier time with magic-Zelda in Age of Calamity) and they have low HP and low Def. There are a lot of archers, though. I've been using a collection of different characters: Shez and Hilda are the big ones, but also Claude and Balthas/Raphael. I haven't been using my Paladins as much as I should; they have nice combos.

    Side note: does anyone else have trouble staying on target when fighting as Claude while mounted? I keep moving away from my locked on opponents or letting them move into positions where I don't have a good visual.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    How many "Parts" are there for each story line? I just reached Part II of Golden Wildfire. I'm a little annoyed that

    Spoiler: Plot Development
    Show
    Claude decided to ally with Edie because Edie is a pretty terrible person.


    I'm also somewhat disgruntled about

    Spoiler: Plot Development
    Show
    Sothis's characterization when she chats with Byleth. I get that having her memories might alter her personality somewhat, but she was just so flipping nice in the original that having her be so mean to Byleth was jarring. I liked Sothis in the original game and wished there was more post-fusion Sothis content aside from the S-rank Support.

    I'm pretty much taking this as a full AU with characters acting a bit differently than they would in the main universe. It's the only way to explain some of the weirdness.


    Trying to get S-ranks on the missions is incredibly annoying, mostly because kill count and time limit are at odds with one another. If I try to primarily use one character and rely on orders to other characters to fulfill objectives in other parts of the map, I don't get the kills from the minions the other characters would have faced. If I split my focus and keep switching characters, I'm stuck with the choice of farming enemies for the kill count or focusing fire on the enemies that have break gauges. If I do the latter, I still run the risk of not getting enough kills, but I'm generally safe on time. If I do the former, I'm good on kills but run up against the time limit. Due to the way that you don't know what the actual objectives of each battle is going in (the continual updating of the mission is somewhat annoying for this), it's hard to judge when I'm spending to much time on kills versus not enough.

    There's always replaying the missions, but then there's the decision of whether to do so immediately (and have only my extra knowledge going for me but no other advantages) or to do so once I'm over-leveled (in which case I have to be careful not to accidentally finish the objectives before I've got enough kills, which means not letting my AI-allies run hog wild).
    It's why I'm moving on to other games rather than rapidly playing through Three Hopes. S-ranking is a pain, particularly if you are playing with your full squad instead of just leveling up an A-Team and using them to destroy missions. I've missed Relic weapons this way, so it's deeply frustrating. The auxiliary battles feel mandatory, because all the materials used to upgrade your base are locked behind them. Strategies that make the main mission more fun are also hidden in this way. Worst of all, the auxiliary battles aren't fun, because you only use half your squad and they're incredibly generic.

    I'm pretty much going to shift into a "put an hour in when I can" mode just to progress the story. The gameplay just isn't good enough to hold me for the much more interesting story.
    Last edited by Rodin; 2022-07-09 at 04:07 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    How many "Parts" are there for each story line? I just reached Part II of Golden Wildfire. I'm a little annoyed that

    Spoiler: Plot Development
    Show
    Claude decided to ally with Edie because Edie is a pretty terrible person.


    I'm also somewhat disgruntled about
    They both, ostensibly, have the same goal. It's just Claude being Claude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    Spoiler: Plot Development
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    Sothis's characterization when she chats with Byleth. I get that having her memories might alter her personality somewhat, but she was just so flipping nice in the original that having her be so mean to Byleth was jarring. I liked Sothis in the original game and wished there was more post-fusion Sothis content aside from the S-rank Support.
    Spoiler
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    Wasn't super fond of this either, and fairly certain it was just to make sure the antagonist angle was played up for Rhea/Sothis and little else. I wouldn't say Sothis was nice in Three Houses, but she certainly wasn't whatever she was for the single scene she shows up in in Three Hopes


    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    Trying to get S-ranks on the missions is incredibly annoying, mostly because kill count and time limit are at odds with one another. If I try to primarily use one character and rely on orders to other characters to fulfill objectives in other parts of the map, I don't get the kills from the minions the other characters would have faced. If I split my focus and keep switching characters, I'm stuck with the choice of farming enemies for the kill count or focusing fire on the enemies that have break gauges. If I do the latter, I still run the risk of not getting enough kills, but I'm generally safe on time. If I do the former, I'm good on kills but run up against the time limit. Due to the way that you don't know what the actual objectives of each battle is going in (the continual updating of the mission is somewhat annoying for this), it's hard to judge when I'm spending to much time on kills versus not enough.
    This part is weird to me. I got S ranks on almost every single level without really trying

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    There's always replaying the missions, but then there's the decision of whether to do so immediately (and have only my extra knowledge going for me but no other advantages) or to do so once I'm over-leveled (in which case I have to be careful not to accidentally finish the objectives before I've got enough kills, which means not letting my AI-allies run hog wild).
    Doing them overleveled is my suggestion. You move through them so fast the time condition really isn't pressing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    People have mentioned mages being a big thing in Golden Deer, but I don't see it. The monk-line attack combos are terrible, (I had an easier time with magic-Zelda in Age of Calamity) and they have low HP and low Def. There are a lot of archers, though. I've been using a collection of different characters: Shez and Hilda are the big ones, but also Claude and Balthas/Raphael. I haven't been using my Paladins as much as I should; they have nice combos.
    Golden Deer gets Marianne, Lysythia, Linhardt, Hapi, Constance, and Dorothea. For archers you get Ignatz, Ashe, Claude, Shamir and Bernadette. That's one more Mage than you get Archers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    Side note: does anyone else have trouble staying on target when fighting as Claude while mounted? I keep moving away from my locked on opponents or letting them move into positions where I don't have a good visual.
    You mean on his Wyvern? Because the flying mounts are unreasonably hard to control I've found. You can get off the Wyvern though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I'm pretty much taking this as a full AU with characters acting a bit differently than they would in the main universe. It's the only way to explain some of the weirdness.
    It's explicit an AU story. Byleth never goes to the Academy. That immediately changes the entire course of events of the story.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    It's why I'm moving on to other games rather than rapidly playing through Three Hopes. S-ranking is a pain, particularly if you are playing with your full squad instead of just leveling up an A-Team and using them to destroy missions. I've missed Relic weapons this way, so it's deeply frustrating. The auxiliary battles feel mandatory, because all the materials used to upgrade your base are locked behind them. Strategies that make the main mission more fun are also hidden in this way. Worst of all, the auxiliary battles aren't fun, because you only use half your squad and they're incredibly generic.

    I'm pretty much going to shift into a "put an hour in when I can" mode just to progress the story. The gameplay just isn't good enough to hold me for the much more interesting story.
    I mean...it's still a Musou game.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Golden Deer gets Marianne, Lysythia, Linhardt, Hapi, Constance, and Dorothea. For archers you get Ignatz, Ashe, Claude, Shamir and Bernadette. That's one more Mage than you get Archers.
    Sure, but Claude, Ignatz, and Shamir are all Chapter 2/4 characters and Claude is the route lord, while Marianne and Lysithea are the only two initial mages. The route that's really the mage route is Scarlet Blaze, as the Black Eagles were in Three Houses. Hubert, Monica, and Manuela are unique to the route, Hapi and Constance are Chapter 4 recruits, and you have Linhardt and Dorothea right away as well.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Sure, but Claude, Ignatz, and Shamir are all Chapter 2/4 characters and Claude is the route lord, while Marianne and Lysithea are the only two initial mages. The route that's really the mage route is Scarlet Blaze, as the Black Eagles were in Three Houses. Hubert, Monica, and Manuela are unique to the route, Hapi and Constance are Chapter 4 recruits, and you have Linhardt and Dorothea right away as well.
    But, at least for me, I was talking the whole route. The number of people Golden Wildfire can recruit is also smaller than the other two Routes so each slot filled by someone you've already got is more impactful. There are 35 (31 actually, 4 of them are secret/unlockables) playable characters. Of that number, Golden Deer gets 22. Six of those are Mages. Five of those are archers. That's more than half the load out of every non-unlockable characters on two classes. Combine that with two Brawlers and Golden Wildfire just has crap versatility in its units. Azure Gleam gets 29 out of the 31 which is just staggering. 7 of the 29 they get are Mages, only 3 archers. That leaves 19 more characters, 3 less than the entire Golden Deer route get at all, that aren't. Scarlet Blaze gets 27, 9 of which ares Mages. That is a lot of buttload of Mages, but they still have a more versatile spread than Golden Deer all told.

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    I mean...it's still a Musou game.
    I'm not sure how this is supposed to be a defense? If it's a Musou game, and the gameplay of Musou games is boring and repetitive, then that's kind of a problem, isn't it?

    It's hard to go back to Warriors when I have two games with far superior combat systems (Monster Hunter Rise and Elden Ring) calling upon my time. The story is the only draw, and I just don't know if that's sufficient with the amount of filler I have to go through between story chunks.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I'm not sure how this is supposed to be a defense? If it's a Musou game, and the gameplay of Musou games is boring and repetitive, then that's kind of a problem, isn't it?

    It's hard to go back to Warriors when I have two games with far superior combat systems (Monster Hunter Rise and Elden Ring) calling upon my time. The story is the only draw, and I just don't know if that's sufficient with the amount of filler I have to go through between story chunks.
    Boring's sort of a personal thing, I can't really weigh in on that because I don't find it boring. It's a Musou game, with pretty decent combat as far as Musou games go. Musou games are pretty famous for being repetitive though? Same combos repeated over and over, same maps used by cutting off different parts, generally a set number of things you do on each map. Lots of generic enemies you have to cut through. That's just part of the genre, that's like going into Stardew Valley and criticizing it for all the hoeing you have to do. You knew what you were getting into with the combat, and the game is all about the combat. Musou games aren't known for their stellar writing, or writing at all. The filler you're complaining about is the game. It's how Musou games go. Side content to build to big story moments, to more side content to next big story moment. It's a Warriors game. You went in knowing it was a Warriors game. This really seems like it's kinda on you, not the game.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Golden Deer gets Marianne, Lysythia, Linhardt, Hapi, Constance, and Dorothea. For archers you get Ignatz, Ashe, Claude, Shamir and Bernadette. That's one more Mage than you get Archers.
    I expect people are just counting in-house recruits. If you include out of house I think everyone has more mages than anything else because there *are* more mages that are cross recruitable than anything else. The only native caster for Golden Deer is Lysithea, and I think they're the only house to get two native archers.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Boring's sort of a personal thing, I can't really weigh in on that because I don't find it boring. It's a Musou game, with pretty decent combat as far as Musou games go. Musou games are pretty famous for being repetitive though? Same combos repeated over and over, same maps used by cutting off different parts, generally a set number of things you do on each map. Lots of generic enemies you have to cut through. That's just part of the genre, that's like going into Stardew Valley and criticizing it for all the hoeing you have to do. You knew what you were getting into with the combat, and the game is all about the combat. Musou games aren't known for their stellar writing, or writing at all. The filler you're complaining about is the game. It's how Musou games go. Side content to build to big story moments, to more side content to next big story moment. It's a Warriors game. You went in knowing it was a Warriors game. This really seems like it's kinda on you, not the game.
    So it's my fault that a series I haven't played in over 20 years (and only played one game of at that) is not as interesting as I expected for a series that should have been evolving for two decades?

    That's one hell of a take.

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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Again though, what's interesting is personal.

    Musou gameplay isn't interesting *to you*. But that's on you. Musou is what it is. It has been what it is for a long time. You had plenty of opportunity to find out what it is before you bought one. It's like buying a FIFA game and complaining that you didn't like football.

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    How many "Parts" are there for each story line? I just reached Part II of Golden Wildfire. I'm a little annoyed that

    Spoiler: Plot Development
    Show
    Claude decided to ally with Edie because Edie is a pretty terrible person.


    I'm also somewhat disgruntled about

    Spoiler: Plot Development
    Show
    Sothis's characterization when she chats with Byleth. I get that having her memories might alter her personality somewhat, but she was just so flipping nice in the original that having her be so mean to Byleth was jarring. I liked Sothis in the original game and wished there was more post-fusion Sothis content aside from the S-rank Support.


    Trying to get S-ranks on the missions is incredibly annoying, mostly because kill count and time limit are at odds with one another. If I try to primarily use one character and rely on orders to other characters to fulfill objectives in other parts of the map, I don't get the kills from the minions the other characters would have faced. If I split my focus and keep switching characters, I'm stuck with the choice of farming enemies for the kill count or focusing fire on the enemies that have break gauges. If I do the latter, I still run the risk of not getting enough kills, but I'm generally safe on time. If I do the former, I'm good on kills but run up against the time limit. Due to the way that you don't know what the actual objectives of each battle is going in (the continual updating of the mission is somewhat annoying for this), it's hard to judge when I'm spending to much time on kills versus not enough.

    There's always replaying the missions, but then there's the decision of whether to do so immediately (and have only my extra knowledge going for me but no other advantages) or to do so once I'm over-leveled (in which case I have to be careful not to accidentally finish the objectives before I've got enough kills, which means not letting my AI-allies run hog wild).

    People have mentioned mages being a big thing in Golden Deer, but I don't see it. The monk-line attack combos are terrible, (I had an easier time with magic-Zelda in Age of Calamity) and they have low HP and low Def. There are a lot of archers, though. I've been using a collection of different characters: Shez and Hilda are the big ones, but also Claude and Balthas/Raphael. I haven't been using my Paladins as much as I should; they have nice combos.

    Side note: does anyone else have trouble staying on target when fighting as Claude while mounted? I keep moving away from my locked on opponents or letting them move into positions where I don't have a good visual.
    Spoiler: Parts
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    There are only two parts to every story.


    Spoiler: More on Claude, including end of route spoilers
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    And yeah, Claude is pretty terrible. Not just for allying with Edelgard, but he is basically a foreign insurgent devoted to assassinating the religious head of Fodlan. Considering his sheer lack of surprise at seeing Rhea transform into The Immaculate One, I actually wouldn't be surprised if he always knew that Rhea was a dragon, and that is why he has such a peculiarly intense drive to kill her.

    Because his statement of "making Fodlan less insular" kinda falls flat when Fodlan is actively being attacked from almost all sides. Morfis is perhaps the one neighbour that hasn't attacked Fodlan, and Almyra especially has conducted so many raids that hearing him complain about Fodlan's negative perception of Almyra just feels like victimblaming.

    Then again, victimblaming seems like the national sport of Fodlan's nobility so at least he's acclimatizing well.


    Regarding Claude's unique class. All fliers have a lot of mobility, even in their basic attack string. That can be very useful for clearing out groups, but less so for focus fire against enemy captains. To fix that, I tend to dismount whenever I can't quickly break an enemy's stun gauge. I also use combat arts a lot.

    As for achieving S-ranks. The nameless masses are surprisingly resilient in this game. To rack up KOs, my suggestion is to get as much Special Gauge food as possible and use special gauges on large groups, baiting in two, three, or even four commanders into the same area if possible. Also use Assassins with the ability to instantly kill with their class skill, or Shez whose unique skill works the same.

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    I expect people are just counting in-house recruits. If you include out of house I think everyone has more mages than anything else because there *are* more mages that are cross recruitable than anything else. The only native caster for Golden Deer is Lysithea, and I think they're the only house to get two native archers.
    Sure, and that's fair if that's what people meant. Also, Golden Deer gets Marianne. She's a caster, she starts Monk and her preferred Master Class is Gremory just like Lysithea. They get two casters, two native archers. Blue Lion gets two in Marianne and Annette and Black Eagle gets 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    So it's my fault that a series I haven't played in over 20 years (and only played one game of at that) is not as interesting as I expected for a series that should have been evolving for two decades?

    That's one hell of a take.
    It's a hell of a take to...expect you to do research on a game before buying it? A game in a genre you've only played one of, two decades ago, especially when they gave you a free demo of the game before release so you could figure out if you were interested in actually playing the full version? Yeah, I'm the one being unreasonable here. Musou games have been evolving over the last two decades. Three Hopes is head and shoulders above any of the PS2 era Dynasty Warriors. Three Hopes is head and shoulders over the 360 Musou games. It hasn't evolved in ways you want, that doesn't mean it hasn't evolved.

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes

    I just got to part 2 of Golden Wildfire myself.

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    I'm rather surprised that Claude still decides to ally with Edelgard in this version, because there's pretty significant differences from the Scarlet Blaze situation. In Scarlet Blaze, the Empire legitimately did not attack the Alliance at any point - counts Gloucester and Acheron just let them pass on their way to monastery initially, and Count Bergliez's force was left behind entirely as a rear-guard. Claude and Count Gloucester later besieged Count Bergliez's force, and Edelgard's army came to the rescue, getting them out there, and that was the end of the hostilities between the two. Makes sense that Claude would be more amenable to an alliance under those circumstances. Meanwhile, in Golden Wildfire, the Empire attacked first the great bridge, and then Derdriu itself, and Edelgard issues a pretty transparently nonsense denial when confronted with this. Granted, she agrees to pay restitution as part of negotiations, but still, they're starting from a point of much less good will between them compared to Scarlet Blaze.

    Also surprised by the whole "Alliance becomes the Federation, with Claude as King" thing, though that's more of a cool twist that fits with the story we're seeing, as the Alliance's peace-time policies grind up against the realities of the war it's now embroiled in. Still would've expected Lorenz and Marriane's father to object, even if Holst and Lysithea's parents were behind it, though. But we are also getting fallout from it, with the civil unrest in the west that the immediate next mission is about, so that's cool.

    The confrontation with Shahid at the end of part 1 was cool as well, though it feels like Shez should really be better able to catch on to what's going on after hearing Claude call Shahid "brother" just before shooting him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    How many "Parts" are there for each story line? I just reached Part II of Golden Wildfire.
    Scarlet Blaze (Black Eagles route) had only two parts. I'm assuming the others do as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    I'm also somewhat disgruntled about

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    Sothis's characterization when she chats with Byleth. I get that having her memories might alter her personality somewhat, but she was just so flipping nice in the original that having her be so mean to Byleth was jarring. I liked Sothis in the original game and wished there was more post-fusion Sothis content aside from the S-rank Support.
    The only thing that bugs me about that
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    is that that's all we get of her. At least, unless one of the other routes goes more into it than Scarlet Blaze did. We honestly don't know much about Sothis, especially since what little we see of her in Three Houses is her without her memories, so getting that little taste of her acting very differently than what we saw in Three Houses has potentially significantly implications, but there's just so little to go on if that one mid-game scene is all there is. It also leaves Byleth's story in Three Hopes feeling unfinished, since we have no idea what happens with him/her and Sothis after that point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    Trying to get S-ranks on the missions is incredibly annoying, mostly because kill count and time limit are at odds with one another. If I try to primarily use one character and rely on orders to other characters to fulfill objectives in other parts of the map, I don't get the kills from the minions the other characters would have faced. If I split my focus and keep switching characters, I'm stuck with the choice of farming enemies for the kill count or focusing fire on the enemies that have break gauges. If I do the latter, I still run the risk of not getting enough kills, but I'm generally safe on time. If I do the former, I'm good on kills but run up against the time limit. Due to the way that you don't know what the actual objectives of each battle is going in (the continual updating of the mission is somewhat annoying for this), it's hard to judge when I'm spending to much time on kills versus not enough.
    You do know that getting S-ranks is entirely optional, right? I know the rewards are occasionally enticing, but none of them are important, unless you're very completionist. If I don't get an S rank (I usually do, since I'm playing on normal, but still not always), I just shrug and move on, personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    People have mentioned mages being a big thing in Golden Deer, but I don't see it. The monk-line attack combos are terrible, (I had an easier time with magic-Zelda in Age of Calamity) and they have low HP and low Def. There are a lot of archers, though.
    Strange that anyone would say that about Golden Deer, because yeah, by default they just have Lysithea and Marriane for Mages. You can make Lorenz one as well, but he'll be mediocre at it - though granted he's just mediocre at anything you do with him due to his stats just being that way. The Black Eagles are the ones with a lot of Mages, three by default in Three Houses, and now four in Three Hopes: Hubert, Lindhart, Dorothea, and Monica. Hell, in Three Hopes there's also Manuela, if you choose to use her, though you've got so many other Mages that there's little reason to. (Aside: I wonder if that's why they didn't make Hanneman playable? He's with the Empire too, and they're already overloaded on Mages?)

    I guess it could be that every faction feels Mage-heavy in Three Hopes, though, because you're really not inclined to switch the Mages to any class besides the other side of the Mage line (Priest or Mage) for most of the game, due to every other class using strength for damage. Unless you get lucky and get some Invert Str/Mag weapons early I guess. Otherwise, until you start finding Levin Swords and their counterparts in the other weapon types, Magic-based characters are just pointless to switch to non-magic classes, whereas any other character you can always move around to any other non-mage class just fine (and sometimes also to Mage classes, for people like Shez, Lorenz, Edelgard, etc who get decent magic despite default to physical classes).

    And yes, Golden Deer is definitely archer-heavy, with Claude, Ignatz, and Shamir all defaulting to that. It was the only house with two default archers in the original game, too, just because of Claude, so makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery Diamond View Post
    Side note: does anyone else have trouble staying on target when fighting as Claude while mounted? I keep moving away from my locked on opponents or letting them move into positions where I don't have a good visual.
    Not so much with Claude's archery-based mounted classes, since they get more ranged than melee ones, but with the other flying mounted classes, yes. It's not as bad with Wyvern Knights, but with Pegasus Knights I honestly find I prefer fighting dismounted, and just mounting up when I want them to move on to another part of the battlefield.
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    Just completed Golden Wildfire.

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    As usual, I'm damn impressed with the writing. Claude may ally with the Empire in this route, but it's more reluctantly than he seemed to in Scarlet Blaze, given we learn immediately that he still views the Empire as enemies, and chooses to deliberately let Randolph and his forces die in that first engagement alongside the Empire before moving in to deal with the Catherine. Very much feels like his type of scheming, I approve. And it biting him with the Agarthans informing Fleche of what happened and her going out for revenge was quite appropriate.

    (As an aside: poor Randolph and Fleche, they really get the short end of the stick in this story almost no matter how it goes down. Scarlet Blaze is probably the only route in either game where Randolph gets to survive - since I'm guessing it's a pretty safe assumption he won't survive Azure Gleam, even though I haven't seen that yet - and it seems like Fleche dying seeking revenge for his death is a recurring theme too, between Azure Moon and Golden Wildfire.)

    Besides that incident, what sticks out to me about this route is that it might just have the overall best results for those involved of any version of the war in either game (not counting Azure Gleam since I haven't played that yet). The only major characters who die in this route are Catherine, Cyril, and Rhea. The only casualty among the Kingdom is Sylvain's father, nobody but Randolph and Fleche dies among the Empire, and nobody at all dies from the Alliance/Federation. The Central Church is overthrown without conquering the Kingdom, and Claude attempts to get the war ended after that.

    Though of course, we don't get to know whether that works, because it ends with "it's unclear whether either side will listen to him." Geez, did they decide that this time it wasn't just the Black Eagles, but all three houses that should have endings that leave the story feeling incomplete this time? So, yeah, that's frustrating.

    There is also still the matter of the Agarthans, who don't get dealt with in this route, but they don't have as much of a presence here as in most other routes either, so that's less bothersome than it was in Crimson Flower.

    Also, all of the extra stuff with Almyra was great, and I'd be happy to have more of that.

    So, finally time for the Blue Lions/Azure Gleam, then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Strange that anyone would say that about Golden Deer, because yeah, by default they just have Lysithea and Marriane for Mages. You can make Lorenz one as well, but he'll be mediocre at it - though granted he's just mediocre at anything you do with him due to his stats just being that way.
    Lorenz has pretty good growths in Three Hopes. He has solid growth in all the offensive stats (Str, Mag, Dex) which means that he'll actually do pretty well in any class you put him in, and his weak stat is Luck which is basically 100% worthless (all it does is make recovery items drop more, and you never need those).

    The only downside to him is that his strongest stat is HP and defensive stats (HP, Def, Res, Cha) are less useful because you have the option of not being hit by either dodging or stunlocking the enemy to death.

    Train his caster classes to give him some some dark magic spells and park him in Dark Knight. He's basically Ferdinand but better in final classes. (Ferdinand wants to be in Holy Knight and is the only native lance user in Black Eagles but his magic stat *sucks* so he's really bad at the Holy Knight class abilities that scale on magic like Lightstrike).

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    Started my Blue Lions run on lunch this morning, and this time I switched my Shez and Byleth to male, where I did both other runs with both as female. Quickly developing opinions on the voices/VAs: namely, I think male Byleth may be better than female, while male Shez sounds worse than female to me. Male Byleth is certainly selling the "Ashen Demon" version to me more than female, at least, while male Shez just feels a bit less emotive/a little flatter in his delivery than female.

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Lorenz has pretty good growths in Three Hopes. He has solid growth in all the offensive stats (Str, Mag, Dex) which means that he'll actually do pretty well in any class you put him in, and his weak stat is Luck which is basically 100% worthless (all it does is make recovery items drop more, and you never need those).

    The only downside to him is that his strongest stat is HP and defensive stats (HP, Def, Res, Cha) are less useful because you have the option of not being hit by either dodging or stunlocking the enemy to death.

    Train his caster classes to give him some some dark magic spells and park him in Dark Knight. He's basically Ferdinand but better in final classes. (Ferdinand wants to be in Holy Knight and is the only native lance user in Black Eagles but his magic stat *sucks* so he's really bad at the Holy Knight class abilities that scale on magic like Lightstrike).
    That's basically what I did with him (raised him in the Cavalry classes and Mage/Warlock), yet his offensive stats still wound up notably below everybody else in the army besides Ignatz. Now, since I'm on normal that didn't really matter, but still, it very much feels like his stat array hasn't improved compared to Three Houses, where he's just mediocre at both strength and magic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    That's basically what I did with him (raised him in the Cavalry classes and Mage/Warlock), yet his offensive stats still wound up notably below everybody else in the army besides Ignatz. Now, since I'm on normal that didn't really matter, but still, it very much feels like his stat array hasn't improved compared to Three Houses, where he's just mediocre at both strength and magic.
    I think the best way to level him is probably about 90 levels in Dark Knight then split the rest between Dark Bishop and Bow Knight (for a bit of Dex to get crits and more damage from critical rushes).

    Just about every character who doesn't get a special snowflake class can get some benefit from taking a few levels as Bow Knight.

    Remember you can reset a character to level 1 and then relevel them with gold on a master class and, given that this is a Warriors game and there is nothing else to spend gold on, I suspect this is in fact the entire reason the level 1 reset exists.

    The other thing Lorenz has is that auto-block when his personal skill has charge in it, which is very useful at mid to low levels to avoid taking damage and scuffing your rank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    I think the best way to level him is probably about 90 levels in Dark Knight then split the rest between Dark Bishop and Bow Knight (for a bit of Dex to get crits and more damage from critical rushes).

    Just about every character who doesn't get a special snowflake class can get some benefit from taking a few levels as Bow Knight.

    Remember you can reset a character to level 1 and then relevel them with gold on a master class and, given that this is a Warriors game and there is nothing else to spend gold on, I suspect this is in fact the entire reason the level 1 reset exists.

    The other thing Lorenz has is that auto-block when his personal skill has charge in it, which is very useful at mid to low levels to avoid taking damage and scuffing your rank.
    I'm afraid you're making some assumptions about how I'm playing there that aren't accurate. I don't hit level 90 - not even close, I end the game at about half that level. I started the final mission of Golden Wildfire with my team at level 47 across the board (for characters I was actually using, which were the core Golden Deer characters plus Holst, Shamir, and Byleth), because I decided to pay to bring everyone up to where my highest level character was, since I had the money for it. And I wouldn't ever bother resetting anyone's level, either, there's no point given how I play. Paying a bunch of gold for some additional stats isn't worth the bother when even mediocre stats get me through just fine on normal.
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    Better than relying on the growth of 15 levels in a class (which only gets you ~+4-5 to its best stat on average), just use the stat-boosting items (and occasional Survey Spots) to shore up weaknesses. Lorenz does get Proficient Witstrike as his hidden skill from Mortal Savant if you want to grind out multiple class trees on him, but unlike Lysithea he isn't a single-minded mage. He's an all-round mediocre statline bolstered by a solid level 3 personal skill, a Crest, and a Relic (but both of the latter are also available to Lysithea). On Normal, though, that should be enough when matched with a solid weapon like a forged Reckless Brave Lance.

    The multi-master-class grind with carefully-planned class levels is really only for optimizing New Game ++++ Maddening runs. For the second route on Normal, even breaking level 60 on Shez isn't really guaranteed and even a character with as wide of multi-route availability as Lorenz will need quite a bit of work to cap more than a couple of Master Classes.

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    Welp finished Silver Snow along with all supports (bar S ranks and DLC characters). I may do another run, but not anytime soon. IMO silver snow and romancing Rhea is prolly the best ending for Fodlan (personal unbiased opinion).

    Anywho back to Three Hopes... need to finish grinding some supports in my blue lions route and the I'll pick another house.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix View Post
    Welp finished Silver Snow along with all supports (bar S ranks and DLC characters). I may do another run, but not anytime soon. IMO silver snow and romancing Rhea is prolly the best ending for Fodlan (personal unbiased opinion).

    Anywho back to Three Hopes... need to finish grinding some supports in my blue lions route and the I'll pick another house.
    Fódlan is still in the grip of a supernaturally enforced aristocracy where some people are literally *born better* than others, and the entire structure is a lie perpetrated to protect one woman's kin.

    Any ending where Rhea and her phony church survive the game with their authority intact is questionable.

    If you want the "most unified possible" ending it's Golden Deer where Byleth marries Petra and you pair up Claude and Lorenz because that unites Fódlan, Brigid, and Almyra in peaceful alliance and the supernatural underpinnings of both the Church and the Agarthans are gone.
    Last edited by GloatingSwine; 2022-07-20 at 04:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Fódlan is still in the grip of a supernaturally enforced aristocracy where some people are literally *born better* than others, and the entire structure is a lie perpetrated to protect one woman's kin.

    Any ending where Rhea and her phony church survive the game with their authority intact is questionable.

    If you want the "most unified possible" ending it's Golden Deer where Byleth marries Petra and you pair up Claude and Lorenz because that unites Fódlan, Brigid, and Almyra in peaceful alliance and the supernatural underpinnings of both the Church and the Agarthans are gone.
    But then I don't have control over everything.

    Sarcasm aside. You are right.
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    I've now reached part 2 of Azure Gleam.
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    As per usual, the writing's been great. It's wonderful to see all of these characters adapt to these circumstances - and literally everybody trying to tell Dimitri, repeatedly, to quit it with the martyr complex and let them goddamn help him, because half of them have connections to the Tragedy of Duscur almost as close as his and would like to get to the bottom of it and punish those behind it too. I guess this is what it's taking to avoid him going full Boar on us in this timeline... on top of the Kingdom not getting half-conquered and all. Damn, but he gives even Marianne a run for her money for the title of "biggest psychological issues in this story." And the Agarthians - or Cornelia, at least - sure know how to push his buttons, with trying to tell him Edelgard knows what happened to their mother and was involved in it in some way, which we know isn't true.

    It's actually surprising that this is the route where the Agarthians seem most active. I would've figured they'd be more pissed at Edelgard throwing them out of Enbarr and give her a lot of trouble in her route, but no, not until quite late in the game. Whereas they're constantly messing with Dimitri and the Kingdom here. I guess it's probably because the Kingdom is the nation with the strongest ties to the Church, which is their biggest foe - and yet they also act as much to draw out the war in general as to try and swing it against the Kingdom.

    Speaking of... yeesh, that mid-game twist. I'm actually not sure about that one yet. Thales could somehow force that monstrous transformation on Edelgard from a quick exchange of magic? And now she seems to be under their control? Really? If they could just do that kind of thing, why don't they even try to in any of the other timelines? I guess in the original four you could say it's because she doesn't turn on them (until after the ending of Crimson Flower, anyway), but in Scarlet Blaze and Golden Wildfire? Though I guess we must free her from it at some point, because the stages where you deal with Arval/Epimenides seem to be the same regardless of route, and she's obviously herself in those. Unless there's a variant specifically for Azure Gleam, while the Scarlet Blaze and Golden Wildfire versions are basically the same...

    I'll be very curious to see where Edelgard's companions pop back up in the plot now, since Hubert and Ferdinand are said to have vanished after Duke Aegir claimed the regency. Will Caspar and Lindhart have gone with them? Will they be trying to rescue Edelgard and bring down the Duke and his Agarthan backers? How will they interact with the Kingdom and Alliance, now that they're in no position to continue Edelgard's war on their own?

    Oh, speaking of, interesting to see how the Alliance's role plays out here after seeing them ally with the Empire in both other versions of the story. Makes sense that Claude would take the opportunistic route of allying with the Kingdom when they seem to be swinging the war in their direction, and yet his conversation with Dimitri very much shows that he's still thinking that Edelgard's accusations against the Church are on point. I'm guessing nothing will come of that in this timeline, I don't see Claude trying to attack the Church if it risks the Alliance making an enemy of the Kingdom when they can't make a friend of the Empire, but good to see the character consistency.

    Also, kind of on a similar note to my comments about Dimitri: wow, everybody worries about the Kingdom basically falling apart at the drop of a hat in this route. Even without knowing about the Agarthans pulling the strings, the possibility of insurrections and civil wars over anything they might do is constantly on the minds of Dimitri, Felix, and even Sylvain at times. I don't know if that's just because of the Agarthans screwing with the Kingdom, or if the Kingdom was just that bad off even without their influence - though I guess given how large the Tragedy of Duscur looms over recent Kingdom history, and them being the ones behind that, it's pretty hard to disentangle the two. Still, I wasn't expecting the Kingdom to have even more internal strife than the Empire (with Duke Aegir and others who were resistant to Edelgard's reforms) and the Alliance (with the round table and all of its bickering and politics).

    Some smaller thoughts less related to the main plot:
    - Does anyone know if it's possible to save Sylvain's brother at the end of part 1? I know it was possible to avoid Count Rowe dying in Scarlet Blaze in a similar situation since I re-did that stage to do so, but on the flip side when I tried to re-run the stage where Randolph dies in Golden Wildfire, I wound up finding that it just wasn't possible to avoid that (for reasons that became obvious as I saw the end-of-stage scenes). I opted not to retry this time, thinking it was more likely it wasn't possible, but I'm not sure.
    - I'm having Shez go for magic classes this time around, and putting him in Dark Mage made me realize: male Shez actually looks a fair bit like Hubert. It's the hair, mainly - they both have the bangs obscuring one of their eyes and half of their face, and that plus the more unkempt, short hair that male Shez has makes him resemble Hubert a fair bit. A bit appropriate I suppose, with the dark magic powers he gets from Arval.
    - Damn, but that "Essence of Light" ability that Mercedes and Flayn get makes the Priest/Bishop classes feel way better. Granted, they still have to just spam the three normals into strong attack string, but it firing three more powerful orbs instead of just the one is so much more effective and satisfying. I do wonder why none of the other strong attacks of the class seem to have benefited as much though. Gremory is still just way better though, and both of its light-based strong attacks get amped up by that ability.
    - Favorite character-specific abilities in this route: Mercedes and Felix. Felix is just a crazy speed demon, all the time, and Mercedes getting a healing/light damage nuke is just glorious. Those probably eclipse any of the character abilities from the other routes for me, too. Marianne's auto-ice-rain thing was fun, as was Lorenz's rose whirlwinds and Hubert's dark magic bomb-splinters, but I don't think any of those were quite as satisfying as Felix and Mercedes' abilities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
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    No you can't. I've run that fight several times trying to s rank and you cannot save him. A future paralogue confirms this from what I can tell.
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    Alright, I completed Azure Gleam at last!
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    So, while still good and fun, I do have to say I think this is the weakest route by a fair margin, mostly due to the mid-game twist of it. I believe I see what they were trying to go for - the main plot of this route centers around Dimitri learning the secrets of the Tragedy of Duscur and, ultimately, getting his revenge on those responsible for it, the Agarthans. The problem is, by just having the Agarthans take control of Edelgard like that, the main conflict of the overall narrative, the war, becomes a lot less interesting. The Agarthans, whatever backstory might have lead them to being what they are now, are just purely evil villains here, who simply want to destroy their ancient enemies, and everyone else who isn't them. They work as a force working behind the scenes to make the war between the Empire and Kingdom worse because it's to their advantage and fits their ultimate goals, but as the main antagonists, they're a lot less interesting than Edelgard. As soon as they take over, the Empire starts falling apart, and even its own people no longer believe in what they're doing - it's only stubbornness that even keeps Caspar and his father around. Compared to a conflict with legitimate conflicting viewpoints driving it on both sides, it's just so much more... bleh. They could have thrust the Agarthans into a more front-and-center role a lot more easily while still maintaining the war as the central conflict of the overall narrative by simply having Dimitri eventually learn of the location of Shambhala. Could even have had him realize how the Agarthans are as much an enemy of the Empire as the Kingdom and propose a temporary truce and alliance to deal with them to Edelgard, and explored how that would turn out (likely with Edelgard trying to leverage it into an opportunity to destroy both the Agarthans and Dimitri, I'd wager, which would make for a much more compelling climax).

    Also, they had Edelgard turn into the monster from the end of Azure Moon when she was first mind controlled, but she didn't do so for the final battle, despite being there helping Thales? Really? How the hell did they drop that ball?

    And yeah, like the other routes, it ends inconclusively... or acting like it's inconclusive, anyway, since with the Empire leaderless after the deaths of Thales, Duke Aegir, and Duke Varley, and with Edelgard still seemingly not herself due to Thales' mind control, there's nothing left to drive the conflict. The Kingdom and Alliance won. They really just wanted every route in this game to lack a proper ending, for some bizarre reason.

    Unless, well, there's one other thing to talk about: those stages where you deal with Epimenides and Byleth. Those really don't work in this route, do they? Edelgard briefly gets her mind back while in Zaharas, only to immediately go back to mind controlled and somehow get away without a trace once they're out again. And Claude straight-up tells Dimitri he intends to abolish the Church after the war, just like in Golden Wildfire, but in Azure Gleam that makes so much less sense when they're allies and doing so would be tantamount to starting another war right after ending this one, yet Dimitri is still asking him whether his beef is just with the Church or with the Kingdom as well. It really feels like that part of the game was written with Scarlet Blaze and Golden Wildfire in mind, and not so much Azure Gleam.

    Also, despite being told Hubert and Ferdinand disappeared after Edelgard got mind-controlled, they never actually show up. So that disappointing. I guess we're to take it that they simply ran off into obscurity because they had no hope of opposing Thales on their own? Or maybe got quietly executed, I guess, but if that happened I wouldn't expect Caspar and Monica to still be sticking around like they were, as it'd make it that much clearer that something was very, very wrong with Edelgard. Either way, kind of lame.

    Bah. Yeah, sadly, there's a fair few things that fall apart plot-wise in the second half of the route. The first half is still great, but dang, the second half is probably the weakest part of either Three Houses or Three Hopes.

    Still, the game as a whole is still great. I just wish they let the routes have proper endings, and didn't drop the ball in the second half of Azure Gleam.
    Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!

    "When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis

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