Mini-Guide to Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse PC Races!

[sambojin]

Geeessshhh.... A Bugbear Moon Druid. Lvl2? Try that Deinonychus or Frilled Deathspitter form now against stuff that hasn't moved. 3* 1d8+2d6+2 attacks for the D (and maybe an extra one), or 3*3d6+3 damaged attacks for the FD. Makes elemental forms (looking at air elemental for the high-dex here) a lot better as well.

It even seems like one of those racials that could carry over to wildshape, where the squeeze or reach ones don't. Other druids get plenty of use out of lvl2-4 forms as well. Velociraptor (2*3d6+2'ish) , Elk (5d6+3 charge), Jaculi (6d6+2 adv spring), Ape (2*3d6+3) Warhorse(2*4d6+4 charge prone), whatever. That extra damage is brutal with multiattack or bonus damage or charge/prone attacks. Add Alert somewhere to the build, which is always worth it on something that turns into a BFC caster eventually anyway.

And, you can just go into caster form for a 10' reach shillelagh attack when necessary for actual spell casting/ melee, or a thornwhip that works. Those early levels will fly by. If your DM let's that racial carry over to wildshape, you are definitely better than a lvl5-6 fighter, moon or not. Especially by lvl5-6, because you have spells and other wildshape damage bonuses too.

Bugbear druids..... Totally OP if surprise assault carries over. Like, way more OP than nearly anything else.

[stoutstien]

I'm a little irked at trance. That would have been *the* feature to slap on humans to give them that adaptive feeling but instead they gave it to elfs.

[Psyren]

I'm a little irked at trance. That would have been *the* feature to slap on humans to give them that adaptive feeling but instead they gave it to elfs.

I dunno, I think mutable proficiencies like this have mystic connotations that are better explained by being a more fantastic race. It's the kind of racial I would associate more with elves than with humanity. And of course, the ability to maintain total awareness while "sleeping," and getting rested in half the time, should definitely be an elf thing.

For humanity I would want something like either bonus proficiencies (I like the +1 background idea which lets humans mix and match to come up with some pretty unique upbringings like a Charlatan Acolyte or a Noble Soldier), or maybe even a free expertise even if that might end up making them a bit strong at low levels where that +4/+6 can go quite a long way.

[stoutstien]

I dunno, I think mutable proficiencies like this have mystic connotations that are better explained by being a more fantastic race. It's the kind of racial I would associate more with elves than with humanity. And of course, the ability to maintain total awareness while "sleeping," and getting rested in half the time, should definitely be an elf thing.

For humanity I would want something like either bonus proficiencies (I like the +1 background idea which lets humans mix and match to come up with some pretty unique upbringings like a Charlatan Acolyte or a Noble Soldier), or maybe even a free expertise even if that might end up making them a bit strong at low levels where that +4/+6 can go quite a long way.

I don't know why humans are less mystical than elves. If anything they are even more so. Unknown origins and are out doing really dangerous things at the age elves are still children. Humans are thriving everywhere even without a creator backing their play. Humans are scary in DnD lol.

[TheSnowHatHero]

Well then, let's get to work on optimization.
What are the implications of the new liquid Bugbear? Specifically the +2d6 SA bit.
Assuming a 4 combat adventuring day, of which you can go nova against an enemy that hasn't acted yet in three of them, a 5th level monk gets 4 attacks(EA and flurry) with a 13/20 chance of hitting AC 15(PB and Dex +4) for a good 3*4*(13/20)*2*3.5=54.6 damage over the course of the day.
So, about a fireball of damage.

Can anybody come up with a better build to leverage this? Or is it just going to be a tack-on for EB spammers, PAM fighters, etc.?

[stoutstien]

Well then, let's get to work on optimization.
What are the implications of the new liquid Bugbear? Specifically the +2d6 SA bit.
Assuming a 4 combat adventuring day, of which you can go nova against an enemy that hasn't acted yet in three of them, a 5th level monk gets 4 attacks(EA and flurry) with a 13/20 chance of hitting AC 15(PB and Dex +4) for a good 3*4*(13/20)*2*3.5=54.6 damage over the course of the day.
So, about a fireball of damage.

Can anybody come up with a better build to leverage this? Or is it just going to be a tack-on for EB spammers, PAM fighters, etc.?

Hunter ranger/fighter/ assassin?

[Psyren]

I don't know why humans are less mystical than elves. If anything they are even more so. Unknown origins and are out doing really dangerous things at the age elves are still children. Humans are everywhere thriving even without a creator backing their play. Humans are scary in DnD lol.

Yeah but human progress is generally due to more mundane causes - greater drive, ambition, and fecundity than elves while also not being their lesser (at least at the top end) at arcane or martial pursuits.

And sure, adult humans are out doing more dangerous things than young elves, but we're probably dying a lot more often than young elves do too

Well then, let's get to work on optimization.
What are the implications of the new liquid Bugbear? Specifically the +2d6 SA bit.
Assuming a 4 combat adventuring day, of which you can go nova against an enemy that hasn't acted yet in three of them, a 5th level monk gets 4 attacks(EA and flurry) with a 13/20 chance of hitting AC 15(PB and Dex +4) for a good 3*4*(13/20)*2*3.5=54.6 damage over the course of the day.
So, about a fireball of damage.

Can anybody come up with a better build to leverage this? Or is it just going to be a tack-on for EB spammers, PAM fighters, etc.?

It will depend on whether all your bonus damage instances can be against the same creature or if you have to hit multiple creatures to get it more than once. As written I think the first is possible but not sure if that's what they intended.

[Rukelnikov]

I don't know why humans are less mystical than elves. If anything they are even more so. Unknown origins and are out doing really dangerous things at the age elves are still children. Humans are thriving everywhere even without a creator backing their play. Humans are scary in DnD lol.

Well, elves have been presented as magical beings since their inception in DnD (being basically a Fighter/Mage), and in Tolkien's work, from where DnD took a lot of inspiration, Elves are the more mystical race.

Also, if you go by the wheel cosmology, Eladrins(*) are to Demons as Angels are to Devils, so, I think its pretty fair to say Elves are more mystical than humans.

EDIT: Also, they kinda literally are the blood of Corellon taken form.

*Eladrins as in Firres, Bralanis, Ghaeles, Tulanis, elf petitioners, etc.

[Psyren]

Well, elves have been presented as magical beings since their inception in DnD (being basically a Fighter/Mage), and in Tolkien's work, from where DnD took a lot of inspiration, Elves are the more mystical race.

Also, if you go by the wheel cosmology, Eladrins(*) are to Demons as Angels are to Devils, so, I think its pretty fair to say Elves are more mystical than humans.

*Eladrins as in Firres, Bralanis, Ghaeles, Tulanis, elf petitioners, etc.

Agreed but tiny correction there - Archons are the LG counterpart to Devils. Angels (e.g. Planetars, Solars etc) cover the whole spectrum of good alignments and freely travel among those planes rather than being native to Celestia/Heaven like Archons are.

[Rukelnikov]

Agreed but tiny correction there - Archons are the LG counterpart to Devils. Angels (e.g. Planetars, Solars etc) cover the whole spectrum of good alignments and freely travel among those planes rather than being native to Celestia/Heaven like Archons are.

You're right, I meant the dudes from Celestia.

[stoutstien]

Yeah but human progress is generally due to more mundane causes - greater drive, ambition, and fecundity than elves while also not being their lesser (at least at the top end) at arcane or martial pursuits.

And sure, adult humans are out doing more dangerous things than young elves, but we're probably dying a lot more often than young elves do too



It will depend on whether all your bonus damage instances can be against the same creature or if you have to hit multiple creatures to get it more than once. As written I think the first is possible but not sure if that's what they intended.

I should specify Im not saying that humans should get the feature trance as is as much as mechanics of that feature should represent the human's tenacity and adaptability. They spend a short rest swinging around a weapon they've never used in their life before and by the end of it they are moving it like someone who has spent a lifetime mastering it. Same for tools.

[Psyren]

I should specify Im not saying that humans should get the feature trance as is as much as mechanics of that feature should represent the human's tenacity and adaptability. They spend a short rest swinging around a weapon they've never used in their life before and by the end of it they are moving it like someone who has spent a lifetime mastering it. Same for tools.

I get that you could flavor floating proficiencies differently, but I'm still not a big fan of that. Having it be tied to ancestral memory or fey spirits in some way feels more believable to me than someone being able to retrain skills every night simply by being human and swinging the relevant implements around (to borrow your verbiage). A class having an ability like that I could buy, but getting that just by being a human not so much. Even putting aside the credulity aspect, human is a lot of brand new players' route into this game and having that be the race that teaches those players that choosing their proficiencies is impactful is a beneficial baseline imo.

[stoutstien]

I get that you could flavor floating proficiencies differently, but I'm still not a big fan of that. Having it be tied to ancestral memory or fey spirits in some way feels more believable to me than someone being able to retrain skills every night simply by being human and swinging the relevant implements around (to borrow your verbiage). A class having an ability like that I could buy, but getting that just by being a human not so much. Even putting aside the credulity aspect, human is a lot of brand new players' route into this game and having that be the race that teaches those players that choosing their proficiencies is impactful is a beneficial baseline imo.

So elves, an already strong race, gets an additional feature because they are magical and humans continue to fall further into the back of the pack because they are for new players and are mundane?

[KorvinStarmast]

Wait, can the book be bought separately or is it only available as part of a set?

[ProsecutorGodot]

Wait, can the book be bought separately or is it only available as part of a set?

It will be available separately in May. I'm a big fan of the design intention behind this book but the distribution has left a lot to be desired, I hope this isn't a pattern going forward.

[Rukelnikov]

So elves, an already strong race, gets an additional feature because they are magical and humans continue to fall further into the back of the pack because they are for new players and are mundane?

Further into the back of the pack? VHuman is amongst the strongest choices in the game for the most played levels. Its only by the third or fourth ASI that the racial feat stops being a super strong feature.

[KorvinStarmast]

It will be available separately in May. I'm a big fan of the design intention behind this book but the distribution has left a lot to be desired, I hope this isn't a pattern going forward.

{Comments censored} Thanks for the info.

[solidork]

So elves, an already strong race, gets an additional feature because they are magical and humans continue to fall further into the back of the pack because they are for new players and are mundane?

Just because the floating proficiency doesn't make sense for humans, doesn't mean they shouldn't get something else.

[stoutstien]

Further into the back of the pack? VHuman is amongst the strongest choices in the game for the most played levels. Its only by the third or fourth ASI that the racial feat stops being a super strong feature.

Wasn't referring to V human in this content. You know the standard options that is almost never used outside of rolling 6 odd ability scores.

[Rukelnikov]

Wasn't referring to V human in this content. You know the standard options that is almost never used outside of rolling 6 odd ability scores.

Oh, yeah, then I agree, I've never seen one in play, VHuman is kind of the standard human for me and my group :P

[ProsecutorGodot]

Further into the back of the pack? VHuman is amongst the strongest choices in the game for the most played levels. Its only by the third or fourth ASI that the racial feat stops being a super strong feature.

Keep in mind that at some tables standard human is the only option. +1 to each ability score is among the worst ways to highlight their adaptability and every time a new race is given useful tools to actively adapt to circumstances this detracts from what is ostensibly supposed to be the humans strongest selling point.

To build an example, and I do admit this is intentionally constructed to highlight the point, if a Human and Elf Wizard (or class with otherwise limited weapon/tool proficiency) are put into a situation where they need to survive only with what they find and are able to use, the Human is at a disadvantage where their intended identity says they should thrive. The Elf, with this change to trance, can make use of any weapon they find in this survival scenario while the Human is limited to the paltry list of proficiencies that being a Wizard has afforded them. They're actively unable to adapt to this situation despite humans being notable even to other races as being highly adaptable.

The Elf can open their "big yellow book of ancestors" during a rest and become proficient with that Glaive they found but the Human can't even begin to attempt swinging anything beefier than a Quarterstaff.

[Psyren]

Just because the floating proficiency doesn't make sense for humans, doesn't mean they shouldn't get something else.

This.

So elves, an already strong race, gets an additional feature because they are magical and humans continue to fall further into the back of the pack because they are for new players and are mundane?

Just because I don't like your specific suggestion doesn't mean I'm against rebalancing these races completely. The fact is that neither elves nor humans have been updated yet - because they're not in this book - so I'll table your question until 2024.

[stoutstien]

Keep in mind that at some tables standard human is the only option. +1 to each ability score is among the worst ways to highlight their adaptability and every time a new race is given useful tools to actively adapt to circumstances this detracts from what is ostensibly supposed to be the humans strongest selling point.

To build an example, and I do admit this is intentionally constructed to highlight the point, if a Human and Elf Wizard (or class with otherwise limited weapon/tool proficiency) are put into a situation where they need to survive only with what they find and are able to use, the Human is at a disadvantage where their intended identity says they should thrive. The Elf, with this change to trance, can make use of any weapon they find in this survival scenario while the Human is limited to the paltry list of proficiencies that being a Wizard has afforded them. They're actively unable to adapt to this situation despite humans being notable even to other races as being highly adaptable.

You did put it a lot better then I did. I need some coffee lol. Yea basically the entire thematic niche humans have is reversed from what is happening. It's worse if feats and V human are I play because then they are excelling at specialization.

[Rukelnikov]

Keep in mind that at some tables standard human is the only option. +1 to each ability score is among the worst ways to highlight their adaptability and every time a new race is given useful tools to actively adapt to circumstances this detracts from what is ostensibly supposed to be the humans strongest selling point.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking of standard human.

To build an example, and I do admit this is intentionally constructed to highlight the point, if a Human and Elf Wizard (or class with otherwise limited weapon/tool proficiency) are put into a situation where they need to survive only with what they find and are able to use, the Human is at a disadvantage where their intended identity says they should thrive. The Elf, with this change to trance, can make use of any weapon they find in this survival scenario while the Human is limited to the paltry list of proficiencies that being a Wizard has afforded them. They're actively unable to adapt to this situation despite humans being notable even to other races as being highly adaptable.

Well, I always thought human should be characterized by their versatility, that's why VHuman's feat and floating skill (no longer special since every skill is floating now) seemed like a good implementaiton to me albeit a bit too strong (its balanced in games were a free feat at lvl 1 is a thing IME).

The +1 to all ability scores doesn't really convey adaptability, and it only conveys versatility if one is extremely generous with the definition given that it "makes it easier" to multi class, which can be argued to be a form of versatility. TBH, idk what they were thinking, if I had to hazard a guess, I think they applied the same design principle they did with base Fighter and Champion sub, where they wanted a "simple" class and subclass, they likely wanted a "simple" race. Otherwise I can't understand why they printed something so boring (and mechanically weak).

[Psyren]

I'm sure there are ideas to jazz up the standard human I'm not considering. Guess I'll make a thread

[Rukelnikov]

I'm sure there are ideas to jazz up the standard human I'm not considering. Guess I'll make a thread

If the idea is to showcase adaptability, a simple feature that follows current design style could be:

"Adaptability: Whenever you make an attack roll or ability check and don't have proficiency, you can choose to add your proficiency to it. You may use this feature proficiency times per long rest."

I intentionally left saves out since I don't think they really convey adaptability.

[ProsecutorGodot]

If the idea is to showcase adaptability, a simple feature that follows current design style could be:

"Adaptability: Whenever you make an attack roll or ability check and don't have proficiency, you can choose to add your proficiency to it. You may use this feature proficiency times per long rest."

I intentionally left saves out since I don't think they really convey adaptability.

It's a start but this is a very "flash in a pan" approach to it. It doesn't really meet what I would expect if the earlier level characters are only able to swing the non-proficiency weapon twice.

Thieves' Tools are perhaps the most egregious example of why this might not work, since their use usually requires proficiency*. You're either still restricted from using them, since you're technically still not proficient or you can only manage to use them a few times, completely losing your ability to use them successfully afterwards.
*It's technically that most locks require that you are proficient with the tools to even attempt picking them, it ends up being functionally the same in the majority of cases

I'm liking this is a starting point though.

[Rukelnikov]

It's a start but this is a very "flash in a pan" approach to it. It doesn't really meet what I would expect if the earlier level characters are only able to swing the non-proficiency weapon twice.

Thieves' Tools are perhaps the most egregious example of why this might not work, since their use usually requires proficiency*. You're either still restricted from using them, since you're technically still not proficient or you can only manage to use them a few times, completely losing your ability to use them successfully afterwards.
*It's technically that most locks require that you are proficient with the tools to even attempt picking them, it ends up being functionally the same in the majority of cases

I'm liking this is a starting point though.

I know its only a few times per day, but I wanted it to be useful when you need it, not after resting for a while, so going with the current racial designs this seemed appropriate. Jack of All Trades is THE versatility feature, and while it wouldn't be out of line power-wise if it was Humans "main" feature, I didn't like copying straight from the bard.

Let's keep this going on a separate thread so we don't derail this one.

[ATHATH]

Natural weapons... are no longer called that. Instead, they're standardized to all do 1d6+Str nonmagical damage, and can be used to make unarmed strikes.

Wait, does this apply to the natural attacks of races that didn't get into this book, like the CON-based bites of dhampirs?

[Evaar]

Wait, does this apply to the natural attacks of races that didn't get into this book, like the CON-based bites of dhampirs?

No. None of these explicitly provide general rules that apply across the races that aren't published in the book.

Players and DMs are free to speculate based on the design of these races that they should therefore apply those design principles, such as giving Tieflings their racial spells as bonus spells known, but that's not in the book.