Aegis' Dungeoncrawler OOC II

[QuadraticGish]

Wait relics don't count against VOP....

They don't? Well at some point Orchid could make some for you then considering she has sanctify relic.

[dantiesilva]

They don't? Well at some point Orchid could make some for you then considering she has sanctify relic.

That's what I was asking due to Aegis post.

[Aegis013]

They're not magic items, and they have no market value other than one just for the DM's reference according to Book of Exalted Deeds page 36.

"Sometimes confused with magic items or even artifacts..."
...
"Like artifacts, relics cannot be manufactured, bought, or sold.
However, each relic has a market price equivalent, for the DM’s
use in assigning treasure only. These prices are calculated as
though the relics were magic items."

It's pretty clear they're not magic items or there'd be no need for the clarification their prices are "as though [they] were magic items" and don't have market value for a PC.

Even though it says you can't make them, I'm ruling that the interaction of Abigale being attuned to one of Orchid's Escape Stones would make it a Relic due to her Exalted nature or what have you just so we can avoid having to track one single Escape Stone separately.

[dantiesilva]

Well thank you very much sir.

[Thundercracker]

whoiam has it. If you went into this delve with 24,000 XP (21k being level 7), you would stop gaining XP at the cap of 35,999 XP (1xp away from level 9). Your character wouldn't be able to gain XP above the cap during the delve so any additional XP rewards simply wouldn't add to your total. Since you immediately level up upon getting to Solum (it's in the Big 16 which can be found in the OP), if you were able to carry 36,000 XP to Solum, you would just immediately level to 9 and would still have less XP to play with.

I don't want to punish someone for a misunderstanding, and looking back this was explicitly clarified before you joined. Thus, unless there is an objection, I'll allow you to spend your unspent XP from last time this time only, as long as it is on things that don't cost more than the total you could've had to spend (that would cost 8k or more).

Thundercracker and Yas392, I'll grant the same if you're in a similar position.

I spent all the xp last time.

So this means we have 8k xp, and 10,258 gold to play with right?

Have the crafting rates our fellow party members charge changed at all?

[QuadraticGish]

I spent all the xp last time.

So this means we have 8k xp, and 10,258 gold to play with right?

Have the crafting rates our fellow party members charge changed at all?

Orchid's has not and is still stuck emulating 5th level spells at best. Though now she can basically access any spell up to 4th level through Spell Storing item without incurring the normal xp cost of that infusion so I think passing her UMD is pretty much a given now for crafting. Aegis, do you still want me to roll UMD for crafting items?

EDIT: 13110gp actually and 7999 xp.

[Yas392]

@Aegis013 Thanks for the list.

[Aegis013]

I don't expect anybody to be totally finished finalizing their level up etc, though I have our next module picked out when the group is all ready.

[Yas392]

My bad. Wrong roll for HP.

HP roll: (1d4+4)[5]

[QuadraticGish]

Yeah, I've just been taking my sweet time on my expenditures. Speaking of leveling, any thoughts on what Graft Mastery will be replaced with? EDIT: level up has purchases added.

[dantiesilva]

Abigail has been leveled up for a while now.

[Aegis013]

Yeah, I've just been taking my sweet time on my expenditures. Speaking of leveling, any thoughts on what Graft Mastery will be replaced with? EDIT: level up has purchases added.

It's nothing major or exciting, but how about Graft Mastery is changed to giving +1 max HP per graft per rank?

[TheFallenOne]

I'll try to get an IC post up tomorrow, things are... messy around here. As in, might need to sue my employer messy.

Still need some XP costs to finish my level up:

Improved Toughness
Shape Soulmeld(I might go for the Blink Shirt totem bind)
Double Chakra

Also, can we estimate the cost for Orchid and Solstafir teaming up to craft a copy of the Key to Safe Passage? If it's feasible to get done reasonably soon he'd probably keep their discovery under wraps until he can provide such tangible proof, otherwise he'd feel compelled to reveal the matter at a general gathering of the Dwarven Assembly in the Foundry, calling anyone willing to testify as witness. The Forgemaster Zhrine Vestige and Fireblood Anvil Soulmeld in particular seem quite solid to give credence to the claim of having discovered the Anvil of Embers.

[QuadraticGish]

It's nothing major or exciting, but how about Graft Mastery is changed to giving +1 max HP per graft per rank?

Does that apply to all grafts Orchid makes or just the ones on her? Either way, looks like she'll be finishing out of the PrC with enough HP to make dragons jealous.

[dantiesilva]

Could one graft a dragonmark onto another character?

[whoiam]

Liselle's spending for the level:
(She starts with 500GP crafting allowance, 13598.29 GP, 7999XP, for an effective 500+53593.29GP spending money)

Spoiler: From Solstafir

Show

Liselle is having her chain remade this level.
It is a large (50gp) Alchemical Gold (7000gp) Dwarvencraft (600gp) Spiked Chain (25gp), with a +2 equivalent enchantment (8000gp).
She is taking her usual +1 damage die size,+1 crit range, +1 crit size enhancement.
This results in 2351.25gp of commission for Solstafir.
It also costs 6732.75gp in materials, of which 500 is crafting allowance.

Solstafir receives 2351.25gp commission.

Liselle is buying the feats Iron Will (500xp), Psicrystal Affinity (1000xp), Psionic Meditation (1000xp), Weapon Focus [Spiked Chain] (500xp), Weapon Focus [Scimitar] (500xp), Weapon Focus [Kukri] (500xp), Adaptive Style (2000xp). This costs the equivalent of 30,000gp.

Spoiler: From Orchid

Show

Liselle is getting her Amulet of Health upgraded to a +4 bonus. This costs 4725gp of materials, and pays 1800 in commission.
She is also getting her Headband of Intellect upgraded from a +2 Wis bonus to a +4 one. Again, 4725 gp in materials, 1800 commission.
Then her Ring of Protection gets an upgrade from +1 to +3. 3150 in materials, and 1200 commission.
And finally, her Cloak of Resistance gets upgraded from +3 to +4. 2756.25 in materials, and 1050 commission.

Orchid receives 5850gp commission.

Item	Cost	Remaining Funds
New Spiked Chain	9084 - 500	45009.29
Old Spiked Chain	-7837.5	52846.79
Iron Will	2500	50346.79
Psicrystal Affinity	5000	45346.79
Psionic Meditation	5000	40346.79
Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain)	2500	37846.79
Weapon Focus (Scimitar)	2500	35346.79
Weapon Focus (Kukri)	2500	32846.79
Adaptive Style	10000	22846.79
Amulet of Health Upgrade	6525	16321.79
Headband of Intellect Upgrade	6525	9796.79
Ring of Protection Upgrade	4350	5446.79
Cloak of Resistance Upgrade	3806.25	1640.54

[Aegis013]

I'll try to get an IC post up tomorrow, things are... messy around here. As in, might need to sue my employer messy.

Still need some XP costs to finish my level up:

Improved Toughness
Shape Soulmeld(I might go for the Blink Shirt totem bind)
Double Chakra

Also, can we estimate the cost for Orchid and Solstafir teaming up to craft a copy of the Key to Safe Passage? If it's feasible to get done reasonably soon he'd probably keep their discovery under wraps until he can provide such tangible proof, otherwise he'd feel compelled to reveal the matter at a general gathering of the Dwarven Assembly in the Foundry, calling anyone willing to testify as witness. The Forgemaster Zhrine Vestige and Fireblood Anvil Soulmeld in particular seem quite solid to give credence to the claim of having discovered the Anvil of Embers.

Sounds problematic. Hopefully things work out for the best.

Improved Toughness 1,000 xp
Shape Soulmeld 2,000 xp
Double Chakra 2,000 xp

Making a Key to Safe Passage replica would be crafting a +3 Heavy Mace + 600gp for Dwarvencraft. No guarantee it will get you get back to the Anvil should you craft one as it's unknown if there were secret special requirements or similar.

Could one graft a dragonmark onto another character?

I don't think dragonmarks are grafts.

[dantiesilva]

I don't think dragonmarks are grafts.

That's why I asked as I knew there is nothing that says you can, but in one of the ebberon books I read a character somehow got his halfling friends dragonmark by "drinking in his essence" so I figured it was worth an ask as you can graft flesh.

[TheFallenOne]

For everyone interested in weapons and armor

For every 5 points beyond the DC you can change a numeric value on the armor or weapon by some degree. Each subsequent change on the same value adds +10 to the DC (to give +1 value must beat DC by 5, +2 requires 15 over, +3 25 over, +4 35 over, etc)

Armor categories being AC (+1), Max Dex (+1), Armor Check Penalty (-3), Arcane Spell Failure (-5%), Speed reduction (-5 feet of reduction), tower shield attack penalty(-1).
Weapon categories being damage die type, crit range (+1), crit multiplier (+1, max 4). Or for ranged weapons include range increment (+5 thrown, +10 projectile).

With my new Soulmeld my Craft modifier now went up to +37, meaning with Take 10 I beat DC 22 Dwarvencraft by 25 leaving room for much more improvement. Liselle's current order(+1 damage die size,+1 crit range, +1 crit size enhancement) only accounts for +15, so I can improve any of these three a second time.

Also remember your crafting stipend of 500 GP. You receive 1500 GP of forged goods while paying a comission of 225 GP to Solstafir.

Further level up stuff for me

Spoiler

Show

Budget:
7,999 XP = 39,995 GP
Loot share 13,110 GP
Crafting stipend 500 GP
Crafting stipend comission, assuming no one declines free money unless vow-bound to 900 GP
Further comission from Liselle 2,126.25 GP
and money left from last time 2,824.54 GP
Sum: 59455.79 GP

Purchases:
Improved Toughness 5,000 GP
Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes 7,500 GP
Necrocarnum Acolyte 2,500 GP
Shape Soulmeld(Blink Shirt) 10,000 GP
Double Chakra(Heart) 10,000 GP
Soulbound on armor 1,575 GP
Soulbound on tower shield 1,575 GP
Soulbound on axe 5,250 GP
+2 Resistance common effect on armor 2,100 GP
+2 Natural Armor common effect on armor 4,200 GP
Improve Novice Desert Wind Cloak to Scholar 6,300 plus 1,800 comission

Comission paid to Orchid: 1,800 GP

@Aegis Can I use my better crafting skill to improve my gear after the fact? It might perhaps be more realistic to start from scratch. But here's the thing, with the infinite crafting time between Delves this would just generate free money for me. I craft for 1/3 market price, sell for 1/2. I'd eat a tiny tiny loss on the magical enhancements I craft for 52.5% market price, which is easily offset by the 16.7K base price of adamantine plate. Replacing my armor alone would net me a profit of about 2,500 GP. It feels a bit exploitative of the generous crafting rules, so I'd rather say I keep my existing gear and can improve it to conform to my new Crafting modifier.

Also, I feel like rolling the Xansia dice again. Let's get a Xansia-craft Desert Wind Cloak, market price 3000 GP(ToB p. 150). Probably for my zombie, but if the negative effect is something I can deal with I might upgrade the Xansia one to Scholar instead and give my old cloak to the zombie.

[Aegis013]

@Aegis Can I use my better crafting skill to improve my gear after the fact? It might perhaps be more realistic to start from scratch. But here's the thing, with the infinite crafting time between Delves this would just generate free money for me. I craft for 1/3 market price, sell for 1/2. I'd eat a tiny tiny loss on the magical enhancements I craft for 52.5% market price, which is easily offset by the 16.7K base price of adamantine plate. Replacing my armor alone would net me a profit of about 2,500 GP. It feels a bit exploitative of the generous crafting rules, so I'd rather say I keep my existing gear and can improve it to conform to my new Crafting modifier.

Also, I feel like rolling the Xansia dice again. Let's get a Xansia-craft Desert Wind Cloak, market price 3000 GP(ToB p. 150). Probably for my zombie, but if the negative effect is something I can deal with I might upgrade the Xansia one to Scholar instead and give my old cloak to the zombie.

Improving gear after the fact is fine. Any infinite gp loop attempted will be quashed.

I'll get something together for the Xansia effect on the cloak. Orchid can aim for a reduced or increased drawback, I'm going to assume reduced drawback is desired unless otherwise specified.

[whoiam]

In that case, perhaps we should agree a nominal per-item upgrade fee? Before, when I was selling off equipment to get it remade with higher stats, Solstafir got a commission payment out of me each time... Maybe a flat 100gp each time I want an item adjusted?

[TheFallenOne]

Oh I completely missed that then, my apologies. I thought you went for a different material, or switched to large size.

[whoiam]

Oh I completely missed that then, my apologies. I thought you went for a different material, or switched to large size.

While I certainly have in the past, this level I was just getting an identical copy of my chain so I could get the stat bonuses loaded on.

[QuadraticGish]

Alright, with the new cash and Solstafir's new limit on equipment improvements, I need a price check and to mention some things.

@Aegis Are Beast Claws from Savage Species(p.49) permitted?

If so, then from Solstafir, I'd like a price check on Adamantine Spiked Gauntlets. With a DC of 12(I think), it should be possible to fit 7 improvements. Since it uses the normal damage of my claws, as much as possible should instead go into crit. So, three into improving Crit multiplier(to x4) and three into crit range( to 18-20) with one left over.

Aside from that, I also need the following: I'd also like a 50 set of Adamantine Arrows.

A MW Dragonbone Composite Longbow(+0) with the following improvements(6 I think): one into crit multiplier(x4) Three into range increment(150), and one into threat range(19-20). I'll be saving the last improvement to further boost threat range whenever Solstafir would hit the threshold for longbows. I'll be using this to make a Bow of the Wintermoon.

Her Mechanus Gear will be adjusted as such: Three to boost movement as before(to 25), One to Max Dex Bonus(+3), one to ACP(-4).

[Aegis013]

@Aegis Are Beast Claws from Savage Species(p.49) permitted?

Yes. Beast Claws are fine as long as someone can craft them.


TheFallenOne, here's the Xansia Desert Wind Cloak:

Spoiler: Xansia desert wind cloak

Show

Works as a Desert Wind Cloak with the following changes:
You may ignore the number of maneuvers known prerequisites when selecting the maneuver and stance granted by this Cloak.
In addition to the normal maneuver granted, you may also assume a Desert Wind stance of your choice, which you select at the time the maneuver is selected and can't be changed unless the maneuver known is changed. If you exit the stance you may not reenter it for 24 hours as it is not considered a known stance.
You must still meet the IL requirements to select a maneuver or assume a stance.

Drawback: Spontaneous Detonation
The potent enhancement granted by this item isn't fully stable, and sometimes causes spontaneous detonation.

Anytime the maneuver granted by this item is used, there is a 5% chance the wearer spontaneously detonates, this detonation deals 2d6 per IL of the wearer to all creatures in a 40ft radius of the wearer, including damaging the wearer. If an attack roll is required, detonation occurs on a natural 1, if no attack is required, roll a d20 and on a 1, detonation occurs.
If the wearer of the cloak dies or is destroyed, the magical detonation is especially violent, dealing 4d6/IL fire damage in a 40ft radius.

A reflex save of DC 10 + level of maneuver selected + Wis modifier is allowed for any creature other than the wearer to receive half damage. The wearer does not get a save against detonation.

I also realized I haven't generated the shops in town. I'll get that up a bit later today in the IC thread.

[QuadraticGish]

Updated my level up post. Since there's a game jam I want to participate in coming up, if anyone more commissions come in I'll just save the profits to use after the next run.

Couple of questions for you Aegis. First, so you still want me to roll UMD for crafting magic items? I can basically access any spell up to 4th level through Spell Storing item without incurring the normal xp cost of that infusion so I think passing her UMD is pretty much a given now for crafting, on top of that this level I can now use Concurrent Infusions(MoE 94-95) to cast three different level 1 infusions(I.E Spell Storing Item) with my one level 4 infusion.

Second, does Graft Mastery only apply grafts on Orchid or does every graft she make provide +1 max HP?

[Aegis013]

Updated my level up post. Since there's a game jam I want to participate in coming up, if anyone more commissions come in I'll just save the profits to use after the next run.

Couple of questions for you Aegis. First, so you still want me to roll UMD for crafting magic items? I can basically access any spell up to 4th level through Spell Storing item without incurring the normal xp cost of that infusion so I think passing her UMD is pretty much a given now for crafting, on top of that this level I can now use Concurrent Infusions(MoE 94-95) to cast three different level 1 infusions(I.E Spell Storing Item) with my one level 4 infusion.

Second, does Graft Mastery only apply grafts on Orchid or does every graft she make provide +1 max HP?

I'm not aware of any rule anywhere that allows a Spell Storing Item to substitute for the spell during crafting but it might exist, if you can point me towards it then I'll agree you could bypass UMD. Otherwise, I'd think UMD would still be necessary for the same reason a Sorcerer wouldn't meet the crafting prerequisites of an item that requires a spell she doesn't know simply because she owns a wand of that spell - she doesn't actually know the spell or have it prepared which is the requirement per the crafting rules.

Graft Mastery only applies to grafts on Orchid, they don't alter grafts Orchid applies to others.

[QuadraticGish]

I'm not aware of any rule anywhere that allows a Spell Storing Item to substitute for the spell during crafting but it might exist, if you can point me towards it then I'll agree you could bypass UMD. Otherwise, I'd think UMD would still be necessary for the same reason a Sorcerer wouldn't meet the crafting prerequisites of an item that requires a spell she doesn't know simply because she owns a wand of that spell - she doesn't actually know the spell or have it prepared which is the requirement per the crafting rules.

Graft Mastery only applies to grafts on Orchid, they don't alter grafts Orchid applies to others.

Gotcha.

I was suggesting skipping UMD since I could just cast enough magic to boost my UMD to something stupid, plus according to the Item Creation feature this use of UMD doesn't explicitly fail on a 1. For reference, to emulate a spell it is a UMD check with a DC of (20 + caster level) to emulate the spell. I.E, any 3rd level spell like Fireball requires a UMD check of DC 25, a 9th level spell like Timestop requires a UMD check of DC 37.

The following is the break down on what Orchid can achieve on a roll of one. 1(minimum dice roll) + 11 ranks + 4 Cha + 13 Divine Insight(Spell Compendium, Insight) + 4 Improvisation(Spell Compendium, Luck) + 3 Skill Focus = 36. With a roll of 36, Orchid can successfully emulate any spell level up to 8th level for spell per-requisites. For reference, due to her effective Artificer caster level she limited to emulating spells up to 5th level. Next level, her UMD checks for crafting items might as well be 'yes' due to it being able to hit 9th level spells at that point.

[Aegis013]

If you would pass on a roll of 1, then yeah, skip the roll. That wasn't how I understood the initial inquiry so thanks for clarifying.

[QuadraticGish]

How's everyone else looking?