Aegis' Dungeoncrawler OOC II

[Yas392]

I have not been in any of his game so no.

[whoiam]

Yeah, I don't have any contact outside this game, either.

@QuadraticGish Maybe you should just go ahead and get the party started? If he's not back in time for the next delve, we'll just have to go tankless. If nothing else, we've got plenty of healers to cover for Lis' inability to heal herself...

[QuadraticGish]

Yeah, I don't have any contact outside this game, either.

@QuadraticGish Maybe you should just go ahead and get the party started? If he's not back in time for the next delve, we'll just have to go tankless. If nothing else, we've got plenty of healers to cover for Lis' inability to heal herself...

I might just do that soon.

[Yas392]

@QuadraticGish What is the XP discount for scrolls? 50% XP?

[QuadraticGish]

@QuadraticGish What is the XP discount for scrolls? 50% XP?

37.5% XP before commission. Also, speak of the devil himself he posted. I'll try to get one up today or tomorrow.

[Yas392]

I will wait until you give me an example to clear things up. Getting confused with the calculations in XP values. Using headband of intellect +2 as an example from your post. I got 56.25% from wondrous item.

4000 x .28125 = 1125 gold for crafting cost

4000 x .15 = 600 gold for commission

1575 - 1125 = 450 gold converted from 1:5

450/5 = 90

90/160 = 0.5625 or 56.25% cost in XP

1125/25 = 160 original XP cost without discount.

EDIT: And I will have to recalculate XP for wondrous items because I thought I need to sacrifice 1/2 of 160 XP when it is a tiny bit more.

[whoiam]

If you want to pay the traditional way, then yes, the costs for a 4000GP wondrous item from Orchid are (90xp + 1125gp) in crafting costs, and an extra 600gp in Orchid's commission.

Personally, I find the bookkeeping a lot easier if I just convert my excess XP pool into GP and do all the maths in GP (equivalent) alone. Since we're freely allowed to convert any expense between the two, there's really no good reason to calculate them separately.

[QuadraticGish]

I'll be slowing down for a few days. Had a death in the family.

[Yas392]

My condolences.

[dantiesilva]

I'll be slowing down for a few days. Had a death in the family.

Sorry for your loss, take whatever time you need. We will be here when you get back.

[Aegis013]

Take whatever time you need, QuadraticGish.

In other news, the next Delve is ready, though I don't know if everybody has finished their leveling/shopping.

[dantiesilva]

Take whatever time you need, QuadraticGish.

In other news, the next Delve is ready, though I don't know if everybody has finished their leveling/shopping.

Did you get whatever info together Abigale could Garner/replicate about the dungeon fruit/elixir and a cure?

[TheFallenOne]

Take care Gish.

Updated purchase list

Funds:
2824.54 previous funds
22,704.17 loot share
34,995 from XP
738.3 comission from Orchid
500 Gp crafting stipend
900 comission from crafting stipend, assuming noone intends to turn down free money except for Abigail with her VoP.
Plus any other crafting comissions that might come up.
adds up currently to 62,662.01

Corpsecrafter feat(10,000 GP)
Devoted Bulwark feat(5,000 GP)
Faith Unswerving feat(10,000 GP)
Combat Reflexes feat(5,000 GP)
Quick Draw feat(2500 GP)
Chained Undead template on Annis. Weapon used: Cold Iron spiked gauntlet(6,103.33 GP)
Master rank in the Foundry(unknown cost)
Make my axe, armor and shield +1 each: 2,100 GP
3 Lesser Iron Ward Diamonds: 3,150 GP
Least Crystal of Arrow Deflection: 262.5 GP
6 Lesser Crystals of Life Drinking: 4,725 GP
Martial Discipline Weapon(Devoted Spirit)[+1 equivalent] on my axe: 3150 GP
Fearsome armor enchantment on plate(DotU): 2625 GP
+1 Natural armor common effect on plate: 1100 GP
Amulet of Incarnum Shielding, lest I get punched: 826.88 GP plus 315 GP comission to Orchid
add Dragon Spirit Cincture effect to Healing Belt: 935.16 GP plus 356.25 GP comission to Orchid
add Anklet of Translocation effect to boots: 826.87 GP plus 315 GP comission to Orchid
craft large dwarvencraft mithral chainshirt: 450 GP

58754.74
Comission: 986.25
=59640.99

Got it, and there’s a wand of keen blade, awesome.

That being said, is there anyone who is able / willing to craft/ upgrade any equipment for alister?

Mithral breastplate+1
Add enhanced crit multiplier for the Kukri +1’s?

Here's something I said prior on crafting.

That's 1500 market value, sale value is half that so 750 for a net profit of 525 per party member.

Though that should only matter for Liselle who already has top shelf armor and weaponry made by me. The others should still find use from the mundane crafting I can do. For example, both Levi and Alistair currently have +1 mithral chain shirts. A dwarvencraft mithral breastplate with +1 armor, +1 max dex, -3 ACP and a +1 enhancement would run to a market price of 4400 GP mundane crafting + 1000 GP magic crafting, with my cost reducers I can make that for you for 1,991.67 GP plus 810 GP comission.

Subtract the crafting stipend from the noble sponsor, and half the value of the existing chain shirt for selling it, and the remaining cost runs to 1,251.67 GP. For +2 base armor, at the same max dex modifier and zero armor check penalty. Now that's a steal if you ask me. And you can still add a goodie like Ysgardian Heartwire for less than half its market price. +2 AC against crit confirmation rolls doesn't come into use often, but boy if it does are you happy to have it.

Default for magical crafting is 50% gold plus 4 % XP. With our 5:1 gold to XP conversion that comes to 70% market price.

Solstafir receives Craft Magic Arms and Armor this level from Iron Soul Forgemaster and takes the Magical Artisan feat.. Thus, he can make magic weapons and armor for the rest of the party up to CL6(going up by 3 for each further Iron Soul Forgemaster level) for 52.5% market price plus 15% comission, meaning you get your goods almost a third cheaper.

For mundame gear its even better as those are crafted for 1/3 market price plus 15% comission,, so less than half. Special materials recommended, and he makes every item Dwarvencraft(Races of Stone) by default.

We also decided to let smiths with higher Craft checks create better gear to reward skill investment and add some fluff to the Foundry instead of having things peak at DC20 Masterwork.

For every 5 points beyond the DC you can change a numeric value on the armor or weapon by some degree. Each subsequent change on the same value adds +10 to the DC (to give +1 value must beat DC by 5, +2 requires 15 over, +3 25 over, +4 35 over, etc)

Armor categories being AC (+1), Max Dex (+1), Armor Check Penalty (-3), Arcane Spell Failure (-5%), Speed reduction (-5 feet of reduction), tower shield attack penalty(-1).
Weapon categories being damage die type, crit range (+1), crit multiplier (+1, max 4). Or for ranged weapons include range increment (+5 thrown, +10 projectile).

Solstafir with Take Ten currently beats DC 22 Dwarvencraft by 15, meaning gear created by him can either have one category improved twice(say a scimitar with 18-20/x4 crit) and three different categories improved once each(greatsword with 3d6 base damage, 18-20/x3 crit).

In other words, come to papa, shop's open.

I'd definitely recommend you get a fresh set of gear now you can be partnered with a quality crafter. You should invest on a special material on the kukris, it really pays off long-term as enhancements keep getting more expensive and the cost of adamantine or the like becomes a drop in the bucket.

For the three improvements on the kukris the two best approaches I see are as follows: improve crit multiplyer twice, giving you 18-20/x4 and later on get Keen or Improved Critical for 15-20, which will make for a quite brutal setup. Or spread it out over damage, crit range and multiplyer, giving you 1d6 base damage, 17-20/x3. This one seems weaker overall as the die increase is just one extra damage on d4 to d6, whereas for me with a large dwarven waraxe it goes from 2d8 to 3d8.

[QuadraticGish]

Take whatever time you need, QuadraticGish.

In other news, the next Delve is ready, though I don't know if everybody has finished their leveling/shopping.

Alright. I still need a bit of time on my shopping; I got roughly 22k left to handle. Real quick though, since the next delve is ready should a different thread be made for handling that dinner? I'm kind of expecting that discussion to last quite a while and I don't want to clog up the thread while we delve.

[Yas392]

I updated my purchases. I am happy that my remaining gold and XP are decimal free. Now to contemplate which junk feat to splurge my XP on.

[Thundercracker]

Take care Gish.

Updated purchase list

Funds:
2824.54 previous funds
22,704.17 loot share
34,995 from XP
738.3 comission from Orchid
500 Gp crafting stipend
900 comission from crafting stipend, assuming noone intends to turn down free money except for Abigail with her VoP.
Plus any other crafting comissions that might come up.
adds up currently to 62,662.01

Corpsecrafter feat(10,000 GP)
Devoted Bulwark feat(5,000 GP)
Faith Unswerving feat(10,000 GP)
Combat Reflexes feat(5,000 GP)
Quick Draw feat(2500 GP)
Chained Undead template on Annis. Weapon used: Cold Iron spiked gauntlet(6,103.33 GP)
Master rank in the Foundry(unknown cost)
Make my axe, armor and shield +1 each: 2,100 GP
3 Lesser Iron Ward Diamonds: 3,150 GP
Least Crystal of Arrow Deflection: 262.5 GP
6 Lesser Crystals of Life Drinking: 4,725 GP
Martial Discipline Weapon(Devoted Spirit)[+1 equivalent] on my axe: 3150 GP
Fearsome armor enchantment on plate(DotU): 2625 GP
+1 Natural armor common effect on plate: 1100 GP
Amulet of Incarnum Shielding, lest I get punched: 826.88 GP plus 315 GP comission to Orchid
add Dragon Spirit Cincture effect to Healing Belt: 935.16 GP plus 356.25 GP comission to Orchid
add Anklet of Translocation effect to boots: 826.87 GP plus 315 GP comission to Orchid
craft large dwarvencraft mithral chainshirt: 450 GP

58754.74
Comission: 986.25
=59640.99



Here's something I said prior on crafting.





I'd definitely recommend you get a fresh set of gear now you can be partnered with a quality crafter. You should invest on a special material on the kukris, it really pays off long-term as enhancements keep getting more expensive and the cost of adamantine or the like becomes a drop in the bucket.

For the three improvements on the kukris the two best approaches I see are as follows: improve crit multiplyer twice, giving you 18-20/x4 and later on get Keen or Improved Critical for 15-20, which will make for a quite brutal setup. Or spread it out over damage, crit range and multiplyer, giving you 1d6 base damage, 17-20/x3. This one seems weaker overall as the die increase is just one extra damage on d4 to d6, whereas for me with a large dwarven waraxe it goes from 2d8 to 3d8.

Thanks for putting all that together, I would also go with the crit multiplier, as I’m going to pick up the wand of keen edge. The duration is long enough it should last through a full delve. Will take up the offer on the Mithral breastplate +1 as well. Why adamantine for the kukris though?

[Yas392]

How much free crafting we can get from Solstafir again? 500 gold?

[whoiam]

500gp in free materials. You still have to pay Solstafir's commission on whatever you make (and any materials costs above 500gp), so it's not quite free free. Still a nice cheap way to pick up equipment, though.

[Yas392]

I will swap to Solstarfir for upgrading his buckler then since Levi will save 500 gold. Might as well use it. Sorry Orchid.

[TheFallenOne]

Thanks for putting all that together, I would also go with the crit multiplier, as I’m going to pick up the wand of keen edge. The duration is long enough it should last through a full delve. Will take up the offer on the Mithral breastplate +1 as well. Why adamantine for the kukris though?

Just an example, though it wouldn't be a bad choice since adamantine is the common damage reduction type for constructs and you lose a good chunk of offensive power on things immune to crit and sneak attack.

Abyssal Bloodiron from Planar Handbook is also an interesting option since it confers a +4 bonus on crit confirmation which would go great with your build. Add Power Critical on top of that and almost any threat you roll will confirm. Though it would be a more costly option since like cold iron it increases the cost of any magical enhancement by 2.000 GP.

[Aegis013]

Did you get whatever info together Abigale could Garner/replicate about the dungeon fruit/elixir and a cure?

Spending 3,000 XP on information about the Dungeon Fruit and Elixir and a cure (presumably for Dungeon Fruit side effects), Abigail finds out the following information, building on what Orchid and others were able to collect.

Dungeon Fruit can't be replicated precisely outside of the Dungeon. There's also not much in the way of records available as anything related to the Infernal Voice, which Dungeon Fruit are is knowledge suppressed by the Bureaucracy. Abigail either has to be covert in her investigation or go straight to Prince Atticus.

Elixir is specifically Prince Atticus' attempt to replicate the Dungeon Fruit's beneficial effects and ideally not incur the same side-effects that some who partake suffer from. It seems the magic and knowledge of Solum isn't able to deal with these side effects at all in most cases. As an example, if someone loses their sight as a side effect then magic won't restore it. It's as if the change is innate rather than being something like damage or a disease.

Elixir is created using parts of [Good] and [Evil] Outsiders as well as some other ingredients which aren't quite so unsavory. Given that there's almost no data regarding Elixir, any potential side-effects are unknown. There don't seem to be any so far, and if there are side-effects, they're subtle enough to be outside of Solum's ability to detect currently.

(New info):
Coordinating with the knowledge gained from the rest of the group and what tidbits can be recalled from Atticus' lab and the like, Abigail is able to discern that at least some parts of the Elixir needs to be obtained from the Outsiders against their will, while the Outsider is alive, and it seems inflicting suffering when obtaining the ingredient improves the quality. It's only a hypothesis, though you suspect you need to get the [Good] Outsider material this way. It also seems the rank of the Outsider is going to have a dramatic effect on potency of the finished product. A Lantern Archon isn't going to give nearly as powerful a result as a Solar, for example.

Generally most Outsiders are found in the dungeon, and it's not especially uncommon for the monster corpses to be extracted for use (Solstafir does this). Though Abigail is able to uncover a few instances that seem like live specimens were brought out for study or similar, though the trails on that run dry pretty quickly as the Bureaucracy is pretty good about keeping those things out of the public knowledge. Non-Solumites coming out from the Dungeon alive isn't supposed to happen and the last one on record was a massive catastrophe. It's the reason why there is still a shattered obelisk in the memorials to the dead on the long march to the Dungeon, so this discovery seems suspect. Trying to find names of Delvers who may have done or participated in this, it seems they have died or disappeared and are presumed dead, but the only three Abigail can definitively identify were linked to the royal court either through familial ties, debts or even official sponsorships by referencing their public records. Abigail is able to link two directly to Atticus, even though this appears to be well over 40 years ago. Atticus doesn't appear old enough to have been in such a prestigious position at that time given he's supposedly human.

[dantiesilva]

@Aegis013 Thank you for the information, it has been added to my first OOC post. And I will relay said information at the party to the others when we do that scene, though still unsure if we are doing that in a separate thread so we can keep things moving or not. I think she may hire her brother to do a little digging into/try to procure a sample of the elixir at a later date for the party so that they have a baseline to work from as well. This is a lot of useful information to be sure though and raises a lot of questions, including morale ones from her point of view.

[QuadraticGish]

Alright finally finalizing my shopping. For everyone else, Orchid managed to reach a +30 bonus on UMD so she auto passes any UMD checks necessary for anyone's stuff. Tomorrow I'll get that post going.

Spoiler: Orchid's Shopping list

Show

Starting GP: 2076.01 from last time
22704gp from this delve
7999xp, 200 reserve, 700 graft reserve
986.25gp from Solstafir
3510gp from Alistair
8778.75gp from Levi
2970gp from Liselle
500gp from stipend
Total: 41925.01

Bonemail: -4500gp; -360 graft reserve
Shudder Plate -2250gp, -180 graft reserve
Scrolls of Hastex2(CL5): -281.25 gp, -22xp
Gauntlets of Ghostfighting: -1125gp, -90xp
True Believer(Heironeous) Feat -500xp
Glaring Eye -2812.5 gp, -65xp -160xp
Xansia up to L3 -2352xp
Scrolls of Fireball(CL5): -421.87gp, -33xp
Scroll of Wall of Sand(CL 7): -262.5gp, -21xp
Scroll of Heal(CL 7) -421.87gp, -33
Boneplating -2531.25gp, -3 xp -200 reserve
Stony Plating(Xansia) -787.5gp, -175xp
Heart of Steel -2531.25gp, -202.5xp
Scrolls of Dispel Magicx3 -421.87 gp, -33xp
Battle Caster feat: -1000xp
Medium Armor Prof: -500xp
Mithral Mechanius Gear with Heartwire -5012.5 gp -500 stipend(Solstafir's share mentioned elsewhere
Extra Essentia Feat: -1000xp
Buffeting Fists -3656.25gp, -292.2xp
Fiendish EAr -703.125gp, -56.25xp
Oceanic Adaptation -2250gp, -180xp
Deathless Flesh -9281.25gp, -742.5xp
Goring Horn -630xp
Stony Plating -1102.5 xp

Remaining GP: 672.52(Rounded down)
Remaining XP: 68(Rounded down)

[Thundercracker]

Just an example, though it wouldn't be a bad choice since adamantine is the common damage reduction type for constructs and you lose a good chunk of offensive power on things immune to crit and sneak attack.

Abyssal Bloodiron from Planar Handbook is also an interesting option since it confers a +4 bonus on crit confirmation which would go great with your build. Add Power Critical on top of that and almost any threat you roll will confirm. Though it would be a more costly option since like cold iron it increases the cost of any magical enhancement by 2.000 GP.

Hmm, that would be an extra 4000, per enhancement. Probably better off spending that cash somewhere else. Adamantine it is.

[Yas392]

I should be done with shopping. Tentatively. Can I convert Levi's surplus EXP to gold? I am seeing feats in gold costs.

[TheFallenOne]

Hmm, that would be an extra 4000, per enhancement. Probably better off spending that cash somewhere else. Adamantine it is.

There'd be one trick around it: Dragonshard Pommel Stones from Forge of War, p. 121. It's basically enchanted like a weapon and can be attached to any MW weapon to confer its abilities. Cost is 1/4 above what it normally would be. So you'd get a +1 for 2500 GP, which is much better than 4K. But in the late game once you get to the big stuff it swings the other way around, going from +4 to +5 costs you 22.5K, compared to 20K with the static increase per enchantment.

Honestly, we're miles ahead of WBL in this game, so you might as well splurge on something that is expensive but offers great synergy with your build. But it's your call, and I certainly have a horse in this raise given the potential comission I'd make

I should be done with shopping. Tentatively. Can I convert Levi's surplus EXP to gold? I am seeing feats in gold costs.

Yeah you can convert gold and XP at a 5:1 ratio.

[QuadraticGish]

Okay, should I go ahead and make a new thread for the dinner discussion so we can try to avoid confusion with the dungeon run in the IC thread?

[Aegis013]

I should be done with shopping. Tentatively. Can I convert Levi's surplus EXP to gold? I am seeing feats in gold costs.

You can convert XP to GP for the purposes of making a purchase, though you're not able to convert XP to GP to carry forward through the next Delve. It's best to spend all XP before the next delve, if you can.

Okay, should I go ahead and make a new thread for the dinner discussion so we can try to avoid confusion with the dungeon run in the IC thread?

Feel free to have the dinner conversation in the IC thread if desired. I have the next module all picked out and everything, though as long as everybody is happy with the game pace, there's no rush on starting the delve.

[Yas392]

I thought it is for crafting purposes but that is even better.

[Aegis013]

Always nice to see player-characters theorizing about the plot.

Getting to hear what players think is coming is a wonderful way to refine games as sometimes they have the best ideas.