Looking for tactical-RPG-ish games, I think?

[J-H]

I'm looking for a game to add to my repertoire, and I'm not quite sure what to look for. I like games that have a strong progression element of acquiring better gear, more levels, more abilities, etc. I'd like something with a fantasy/D&D-like theme, but that's somewhat optional.

HBS Battletech was fun, except that each mission takes about 45 minutes to complete, with no way to speed it up. I'd like something where each mission/scenario is shorter, like 10-20 minutes.

Battle for Wesnoth is OK, but a bit unforgiving. It's also really long in the tooth, and I'd rather have something with a bit more detail/options (each unit does only 1-2 things). I think I beat all the scenarios, also.

I play some LoL Teamfight Tactics (Hyper Roll version, around 20 minutes), but there's no progression between games.

Ogre Battle (SNES) would hit the spot except that it's a 25+ year old game that I've also beaten a number of times, and suffers badly from SNES interface issues (obscure stats, etc.)

I looked at Battle Brothers, but it looks like each fight has a rather sluggish set of turns... the random fight I pulled up on Youtube had each enemy unit get about a 1 second turn, with 70-something enemies and 12 PC-controlled units. That's a long, drawn-out fight.

Baldur's Gate II was great. I've played it to death.

I'm not really looking for a third-person or first-person game like BG3, KOTOR, etc... partly because they tend to have content I'm not as comfortable with my kids seeing.

I'm not sure how else to describe what I'm looking for. Luckily, I'm not designing the game any more than Homer Simpson is designing a car.

[factotum]

I'm not really looking for a third-person or first-person game

This is a bit confusing...how can you have something that isn't first-person or third-person when those, as far as I know, are the only options?

As for RPGs with a heavily tactical element, guess it depends how heavy you want that to be. The Spellforce games are really real-time strategy games that happen to have RPG-style heroes in them. If you're aiming for more heavy on the RPG side, Dragon Age: Origins and its sequel are good options--the third game (Inquisition) plays a lot more like a regular action RPG and can be very grindy, but there's fun to be had there.

[J-H]

I meant third-person as in "over the shoulder"... versus isometric/top-down type view.

[Dienekes]

There’s the Divinity: Original Sin games. 2 is pretty good; and doesn’t need 1. Isometric turn based, it has a story that is passable to pretty good at times. Best way to play is usually by thinking how to use the environment and combining different abilities and interactions to get massive effects.

Personally I thought it was kinda a slog with the constant need to level up your loot before your damage and defenses get outclassed every two levels or so. But that seems like something you would like.

They’re also doing Baldur’s Gate III when it comes out.

There’s always X-Com, personally my favorite of the tactic focused games. It’s not really an RPG as in playing a specific character, but your squad levels up and gets better equipment as you progress through specific tactically challenging maps. Not fantasy though.

There’s Fire Emblem. I haven’t played a lot of this series, what I did play I thought was just worse than X-Com, tactically. But it has far more of a story and character focus.

Then there’s always Final Fantasy Tactics. I remember really enjoying the first one a long time ago. Can’t say if it is just nostalgia talking though.

[factotum]

I meant third-person as in "over the shoulder"... versus isometric/top-down type view.

Definitely Dragon Age, then, you *can* view it via an overhead perspective if you want to get a better idea of the tactical situation, but by default the camera is following your currently controlled character around.

[J-H]

How long do X-com missions/scenarios take each?

[Thrawn4]

The Banner Saga?

Excellent atmosphere, unusual fantasy setting, turn-based combat (not too hard but you have to pay attention), decisions and character progression.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2..._Banner_Saga/?

[warty goblin]

How long do X-com missions/scenarios take each?

It can vary a bit, but I think most are like 20 - 30 minutes, bar save scumming. You can also save in the middle of a battle, so getting locked in to a super long slog isn't an issue. If you go for XCOM, I think either Enemy Within or War of the Chosen is the way to go; I think I'd suggest Enemy Within slightly ahead of the sequel,, which is a bit overstuffed. I'd anti-recomme d Chimera Squad, it's built around a single gimmick, and I found the characters to be just horribly annoying in a chirpy, bantering way that made me hope they all died quickly and above all quietly.

That said, if you're leaning towards XCOMish games, I think there's more engaging options out there. Gears Tactics has a much more flexible and dynamic tactical layer, a more character focused story, and removes the nearly vestigial strategy layer. Phoenix Point goes the other way and doubles down on making the strategy layer an actual strategy layer, and uses a touch of simulationism to get rid of like 99% of XCOM wtf rng moments. I personally really liked Othercide, which is extremely abstract, slightly to massively masochistic depending on your difficulty, and has a much more engaging turn structure.

If you want straightforward fantasy, I really enjoyed The Dungeon of Nauheulbek. It's definitely an RPG with set characters, and XCOM like combat adapted for melee. If you enjoy lowbrow comedy the story is pretty funny.

In a similar vein, but more serious, I had a good time with Solasta: Crown of the Magister, which is just straight 5th Edition D&D in videogame form. Works very well, and makes excellent use of a videogame's ability to do elevation easily. Do note that you play ad an entirely custom party, si there isn't a lot in the way of major character interactions or stuff like that.

I also liked the Blackguards games from a number of years ago, they're also RPG ports, but using The Dark Eye as a starting point instead of D&D. Think D&D, but with a lot of weird little simulationesque detail, and massively nerfed wizards. There's a lot of focus on environmental interaction in the combat as well, which I always find awesome.

[The Hellbug]

I'll go ahead and recommend Druidstone: Secret of Menhir Forest. I played it last year and had quite an enjoyable time; it should scratch the tactical fantasy itch if that's what you got. A few things to mention on it:

1) there's no RNG in it; all the missions are fixed in their setups and all attacks always do the same damage, etc. On the one hand, this generally means the missions can tend to feel a bit more puzzle-y than other games like it and it definitely loses replay-ability, but I found that it also made each mission feel more focused and unique.

2) It's not tremendously long. Each level takes only about 10-20 minutes (mostly, some are a bit longer near the end) and there are definitely less than 20 of them total (I don't remember the exact number) so if you're looking for a big time sink, this isn't it. I personally was very satisfied with the length--didn't feel like it outstayed its welcome.

3) The plot is very much secondary and the writing is pretty trite. I wouldn't say the game would benefit form it not existing but it's nothing more than barely giving a reason to string the levels together (and definitely feels like a leftover from a more ambitious story earlier in development near the end).

4) It does a good job of making character progression feel good without just increasing your numbers. Your little cast of characters will start the game bopping away at enemies for 1-3 damage and they won't be doing much more than that without spending resources or setting up combos in the late game either, but you will have access to a considerably larger group of fun abilities and I felt like the level difficulty did a great job of keeping up with the tools you had been given (with one or two exceptions; there were a couple of times it kind of gotcha'd me on level setups that required me to back out and equip a different selection of abilities to make it work). It felt very satisfying to me throughout, though.

[tonberrian]

Into the Breach is tactical goodness, with VERY light rpg elements. No RNG, enemies will tell you exactly what they're going to do. Each mission is 10-15 minutes. Super Robot Wars 30 is tactical mecha greatness, though its missions are a little longer (you can save in the middle though). Pillars of Eternity and the two Pathfinder games (Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous) are more like Baldur's Gate, with Pillars having its own system, and the pathfinder games being pretty accurate implementations of Pathfinder 1e. Wrath of the Righteous still needs some patching, IIRC, but Kingmaker works fine. All the Spiderweb Software games i've played are pretty tactical for RPGs, but they've been using the same engine for years. They also run on toasters. I've only really played Geneforge 1, II, and III, and Avadon I, but they just came out with Queen's Wish: The Conquerer and a remake of Geneforge 1 with new mechanics.

Games I have but not played, based on reviews because I too like tactic rpg, include Fae Tactics, Ikenfell, Wyldermyth, Fort Triumph, Gears Tactics, Regalia: Of Men and Monarchs, Vestaria Saga, Chroma Squad, and Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark. I haven't played any of these, but they all are sort of tactic-y and rpg-y. Ikenfell and Wyldermyth in particular I've heard lots of good things about.

[factotum]

If we're going to include JRPGs then Valkyria Chronicles may be worth a look. Turn-based tactical missions in between the usual JRPG visual novel stuff. Bounced off them myself because I got stuck on a fairly early mission in the one I tried, but you might have better luck.

[Corlindale]

Not sure if this is exactly what you are looking for, but I think Tales of Maj'Eyal is branded as tactical roguelike. You only control a single character, but you have a wide variety of abilities and there is great variance between different classes (it has perhaps the best class selection of sny game I've played) . Lots of progression in both abilities and gear and plenty of challenge with difficulty options to satisfy everyone.

It's free to download, so you can give it a try and see if it clicks. If it works out for you, there's easily hundreds of hours of entertainment there.

[Eldan]

Into the Breach is tactical goodness, with VERY light rpg elements. No RNG, enemies will tell you exactly what they're going to do. Each mission is 10-15 minutes.

Into the Breach is a strongly recommended game with excellent tactics, but I'm not sure I'd recommend it in this thread. There's not a lot of RPG elements. You unlock new units and new abilities for those units, but it's definitely not a focus. The battles are very well done and challenging, though. The central gimmick is that you are fighting insectoid aliens, who are quite predictable, so that every turn, you know exactly what those aliens will do the next turn. It becomes a kind of puzzle game: where do you position your units to evade attacks, which aliens do you ignore this turn, and which ones need to die to protect your buildings, how do you move aliens around with special abilities so they'll hit each other.

[J-H]

Thanks everyone!

I have downloaded the demo for X-Com: Enemy Unknown (I couldn't find Enemy Within).

The Banner Saga looks good. No demo :( but I think I'm going to spring for it anyway. The gameplay I saw on youtube looks gore-free, so it may be kid-appropriate-ish, too, depending on the storyline.

I have played Tales of Maj'Eyal and got a few characters up to reasonably high levels (30 or 40? don't recall).

Lots of other suggestions to look at here too...thanks again.

[IthilanorStPete]

Thanks everyone!

I have downloaded the demo for X-Com: Enemy Unknown (I couldn't find Enemy Within).

To clarify, Enemy Within's an expansion/DLC for Enemy Unknown. (War of the Chosen is the same for X-Com 2).

[Anteros]

If you liked Ogre Battle you'd probably like Tactics Ogre. Either the original SNES/PSX game or the PSP remake.

[J-H]

According to Steam, I'm now 6.4 hours into the Banner Saga. I've lost two named characters to non-battle choices (oops) and my refugee caravan is near starving. I think I'll probably have to start over at some point once I learn how to get through a battle without half my characters getting wounded.

[Amechra]

Ikenfell is really, really good, and I highly recommend it.

A bit of a warning before picking it up — it's a bit of a hybrid between the Paper Mario-style "do a quicktime event to see how well the attack went" system and a tactical RPG. There is an option in the settings menu that lets you dial down the difficulty of the quicktime events if that isn't your thing, but keep in mind that they're a big part of the actual challenge. I ended up playing the game with "Perfect Timing" on due to sensory issues, and the tactical portion was satisfying but a little bit on the easy side.

EDIT: There's also Blood Bowl... but only if you're playing against the AI or against friends. Trust me, playing with random people is a bad idea, unless your idea of fun is getting absolutely stomped.

[Erloas]

Shadowrun games are good. I can't remember how long each mission takes though, I think it's usually pretty long. I believe you can save mostly freely though if they last too long. (I'm not sure on that, it didn't come up much so I just don't remember).

There is also Wastelands. I found both of them to be a lot of fun. They don't really have set missions so some parts can be fairly short and some can be long, but I think there is usually plenty of times to save.

[Triaxx]

Ogre Battle: Person of Lordly Caliber on the N64 was also really good.

Fallour Tactics is nearly as old but is a surprisingly fun game.

More tactical and less RPG is 7.62mm High Calibre. Lot of fun, very hard.

[Lacco]

If you don't mind a hard to find oldie... then check out "Spellcross". It's not too shabby (for its age), but the main selling point should be the idea: portals from the other world open, and bring hordes of orcs and other fantasy stuff. You are young commander that needs to lead the pushback.

So it's Rangers vs. Orcs.

[Anteros]

Shadowrun games are good. I can't remember how long each mission takes though, I think it's usually pretty long. I believe you can save mostly freely though if they last too long. (I'm not sure on that, it didn't come up much so I just don't remember).

There is also Wastelands. I found both of them to be a lot of fun. They don't really have set missions so some parts can be fairly short and some can be long, but I think there is usually plenty of times to save.

Individual missions usually don't last too long. Talking to characters between missions is quite time consuming in the later games though.

[hustlertwo]

Echoing a few mentions in this thread:

Final Fantasy Tactics is, truly, the best video game ever made. The character building is unreasonably deep and varied, the story hits Game of Thrones vibes from long before that was a thing anyone thought about, and combat is just plain fun. Been through it over two dozen times in a variety of runs (including a Straight Character Challenge, several randomized plays, no uniques, only uniques, and the very enjoyable Ramza+monsters only run). It will scratch your tactical itch. A couple of caveats: battles are smaller scale than other games of this type (your party is 4-6 characters, a lot less than a game like Tactics Ogre), and it is rated M. Not super bloody, though it does come up at times, mostly just for mature themes that, if your kids can read, would not be appropriate.

X-Com Enemy Within and X-Com 2 are terrific. Highly recommend. When I wrote my first story I swore off all console gaming until it was done, and it was torture to be two missions from the end of X-Com 2 and unable to seal the deal for nine months.

Into the Breach, as mentioned, is light on RPG mechanics. It is perhaps the best blend of RPG and puzzle gameplay since Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes or the original Puzzle Quest, before the latter company went to the dark side of freemium life. It still is insanely great, and I've sunk more than 280 hours into it on the Switch, getting 30k runs with every team except Secret. One thing I love about this game is it has zero options for save scumming: if you make a mistake and have used your one temporal reset on that level, it's for keeps. That's oddly freeing, to not have to keep reloading like in X-Com or Wesnoth hoping for that perfect outcome.

One game no one has mentioned: Jeanne d'Arc. If you have a PSP, it's a fun little SRPG, re-imagining the story of Joan of Arc with magic, doppelgangers and demihumans. From the same dev that did Dragon Quest 8, so you know it's quality.

[LudicSavant]

Echoing a few mentions in this thread:

Final Fantasy Tactics is, truly, the best video game ever made. The character building is unreasonably deep and varied, the story hits Game of Thrones vibes from long before that was a thing anyone thought about, and combat is just plain fun. Been through it over two dozen times in a variety of runs (including a Straight Character Challenge, several randomized plays, no uniques, only uniques, and the very enjoyable Ramza+monsters only run). It will scratch your tactical itch. A couple of caveats: battles are smaller scale than other games of this type (your party is 4-6 characters, a lot less than a game like Tactics Ogre), and it is rated M. Not super bloody, though it does come up at times, mostly just for mature themes that, if your kids can read, would not be appropriate.

Hell yes! Final Fantasy Tactics is absolutely fantastic. However, I strongly advise finding a version with the "War of the Lions" translation. It is far, far superior to the original translation job.

Like, I can just pick any random line of the script and the difference in writing quality is massive. For instance:

Knight: How about 500 gil per head?

Mercenary: Way too low. 2000. It's 2000 gil a head.

Knight: It would be easy to make all of you heretics, you
know.

Mercenary: Is that a threat? ...How about 1000 gil?

[The knight shakes his head.]

Knight: 700. No more.

[The mercenary thinks.]

Mercenary: OK. Done deal.

Knight: They'll be here any minute. Kill all of them.
Understand?

[The party arrives at Dorter.]

Knight: Ha, speak of the devil...... There they are. Get them!

[The knight quickly disappears into the shadows. The mercenary
looks at the party.]

Mercenary: That's Gafgarion! Damn! 700 was too cheap!

[The mercenary throws his hat and whistles, calling his other
mates.]

Gafgarion: Ambush? Going all out, huh?

Agrias: If you don't like it, you can leave!

Gafgarion: I usually don't do freebies, but I'll make an
exception!

Agrias: You patronizing...

[On the trail of Delita, Ramza and his team are met at Dorter by resistance. A
mysterious man hires thieves to hold them at bay.]

Knight: A purse of five hundred gil per head.

Sellsword: 'Tis coin I lack, not wits. Two thousand or you can stick them your-
self.

Knight: Mayhap you forget the ease with which men are branded heretics.

Sellsword: Threats, is it? A thousand, then.

Knight: Seven hundred. I can offer no more.

Sellsword: Done. Let it never be said that I was aught but a pious man.

Knight: I pray your newfound piety lends not itself to mercy. They will be here
soon, and I shudder to think of your fate should any of them survive.

[Ramza enters the street.]

Hmph. No sooner speak the devil's name, than he doth appear. You've work to do.
Best be about it.

[The knight leaves. The thief turns to his target and throws down his hat in
astonishment.]

Sellsword: Gods be good, that's Ser Gaffgarion! Seven hundred a head for this!?

[He whistles and is joined by more mercenaries.]

Gaffgarion: An ambush! This day grows lovelier by the hour.

Agrias: If you'd not fight, the road home lies behind you.

Gaffgarion: While I make no habit of charity, I could not well abandon so
goodly a wench to rogues.

Agrias: Do not patronize me, -ser-!

Night and day, right?

This isn't even one of the stand-out examples. I literally just picked a random line. Basically everything is at least this much of an improvement.

So yeah. Get Final Fantasy Tactics, and make sure you get a version with the War of the Lions translation.

Ogre Battle: Person of Lordly Caliber on the N64 was also really good.

Another old favorite of mine!

[hustlertwo]

I wholeheartedly agree about WotL. It is the superior version, even if the extra battles where you control Delita smell vaguely of filler and the only extra class of note (buzz off, Onion Knight) requires tons of grinding. New subplots like the resolution for Wiegraf and Reis are way cool and worth the time to explore. WotL delights in giving us new combinations of characters and seeing what they will say to one another. Plus, Balthier!

Still, for all that 98% of War of the Lions being a vastly superior script, easily the best script improvement of any game remake in history, I do sorely miss that 2% sometimes. Usually it was the short and powerful lines that were watered down by WotL's tendency toward verbosity. "Blame yourself or God" hits so much harder than the newer equivalent. Ditto for "I dropped it all and ran." It was worth losing those to get rid of rebels plotting rebellion and Cuar for Cougar, but it still is a shame they didn't keep the few dialogue bits that really, really worked because of their simplicity.

Also, those random quotes when doing spells or abilities. Miss those.

[Anteros]

Is it weird if I like the first example better? The dialogue is much more realistic, and being flowery for the sake of being flowery doesn't automatically make something better written. I've never been a fan of overly wordy dialogue as a design choice though. Often you get the feeling that the author just enjoys hearing themselves talk so to speak.

Back to the point of the thread. The Last Spell is a tower defense game where instead of controlling towers you control heroes that gain new gear and level up as time progresses. It's not super deep, or difficult, but it's pretty good.

Also: Final Fantasy Tactics is just watered down Tactics Ogre with a slightly better polish.

[IthilanorStPete]

Is it weird if I like the first example better? The dialogue is much more realistic, and being flowery for the sake of being flowery doesn't automatically make something better written. I've never been a fan of

I was thinking the same. The second example seems very faux-old-timey, and while it's a decent use of that style*, it doesn't strike me as exceptional, either. The first example definitely uses more modern diction, but it's not terribly clunky and gets to the point.

* Which can be much worse; looking at you, Ultima.

[LudicSavant]

Is it weird if I like the first example better? The dialogue is much more realistic, and being flowery for the sake of being flowery doesn't automatically make something better written. I've never been a fan of overly wordy dialogue as a design choice though. Often you get the feeling that the author just enjoys hearing themselves talk so to speak.

There's a lot more to it than the surface level element of how flowery the language is. For example here:

"Gafgarion: Ambush? Going all out, huh?

Agrias: If you don't like it, you can leave!

Gafgarion: I usually don't do freebies, but I'll make an
exception!

Agrias: You patronizing..."

We're not even sure how Gafgarion is being patronizing to Agrias here. It's basically lost in translation. Contrast how clear the characterization is here:

"Gaffgarion: An ambush! This day grows lovelier by the hour.

Agrias: If you'd not fight, the road home lies behind you.

Gaffgarion: While I make no habit of charity, I could not well abandon so
goodly a wench to rogues.

Agrias: Do not patronize me, -ser-!"

[Anteros]

It doesn't add anything though. It just changes him from a mercenary trope to a sexist pig. It's arguable if that's better. It certainly doesn't add anything to the scene or change the context of anything. It's also certainly not objectively better.

It's quite clear how he's being patronizing in the original. He's saying, he wouldn't normally step in here for free, since he's a mercenary, but since you clearly need his help he will. Also he doesn't really have a choice since they're there to kill him too, but he's playing it off like he's doing her a favor. The second is just him being sexist. If anything it's much less nuanced than the original.

[LudicSavant]

It doesn't add anything though.

I just said what it adds. We actually know why everyone is reacting to Gafgarion like he's being a colossal jerk. In the old translation, Agrias getting super upset and going "you patronizing...!" just sort of comes out of nowhere. Because she's reacting to something that got lost in translation.

Gafgarion isn't being "more subtle." He just isn't saying what he said.