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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    So many games!

    GURPS - highly detailed, very realistic game that has a ton of options and can be adapted to nearly anything.

    Fiasco - is it an RPG? Maybe. Maybe not. But it's a good time and will get you thinking about games in a different way.

    Savage Worlds - kinda like GURPS, but a lot faster!

    Apocalypse World or other Powered by the Apocalypse games - turbo-charged, lightweight, fast and fun!

    Fate - another great system that can handle most genres, and is great for providing a "cinematic" experience.

    BRP (Call of Cthulhu, Runequest, etc.) - built in some ways on D&D, but skill-based and much more granular.

    Lasers & Feelings - how light can a game go?

    Roll For Shoes - well, about this light.
    "Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking)"

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Ars Magica. Quite detailed game of a party of Magi (often with friends) doing stuff in Mythic Europe. Rewards clever use of the magical abilities you have and a reasonable amount of thought between sessions about what your character will do with their down time
    I love playing in a party with a couple of power-gamers, it frees me up to be Elan!


  3. - Top - End - #33
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    LancerRPG - Chicks dig giant robots. A highly customizable Mecha RPG with good tactical combat and narrative options. all the player rules are free on Mastiff Press's itch.io. The style reminds me of french artist Mobeius, and the anime that's inspired by his art.

    Traveller - Space Truckin'. A versitile system, I have been playing Mongoose Publishing's 2nd edition. defined by it's lifepath character creation, you always end up with a character that's unique and skilled in ways that you may not have expected.

    Soulbound: Age of Sigmar - YMMV on whether or not you like the age of sigmar universe, but this has replaced D&D as my primary high fantasy game. An easy to learn system with a lot of great lore and style for high powered hereoes

    Star Wars Revised Expanded & Updated: The classic star wars roleplaying game and the best one. no funny dice required. Action is quick, battles are epic. A great depiction of the universe refined by an audience that cares about it.

    RIFTS: A personal favorite, but definitely not for everyone. Gets a lot of crap but honestly the rules are fine. The setting is my favorite post-apocalypse. it throws everything in with the kitchen sink and I love it. Wanna fight Sci-Fi <Villains of WWII>? Go ahead! Wanna deal with a vampire empire in mexico? Sure. Battle Cyborg Warlords in Siberia? go ahead. You can't complain about the world not being fleshed out.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Come to the DARK SIDE - play 1E AD&D. The D&D that actually made D&D popular.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    For Gold and Glory is a free download, although you can buy hard and softback books of it. Essentially it is a cleaned up 2nd Edition AD&D with some minor tweaks allowing a little more customization with character creation, for example it has both proficiencies and a nebulous former occupation which gives you professional skills like most games do and a volume of knowledge that a player can argue his character knows. For example he was an apprentice blacksmith or armorer thus he has knowledge of various aspects of metal working and metal related things not specific to a single proficiency. They also made it to where proficiencies actually are useful in game, someone with healing proficiency can do first aid on a comrade within 10 minutes and on a successful check heal d3 HP.

    It still uses THAC0 although apparently the term THAC0 is copy righted so the acronym is the same but the letters mean something else. Its a really fun game and my former 5E group prefers it to 5e. THAC0 just requires simple subtraction and isnt near as complicated as people make it out to be for some reason. There are also much less modifiers than what you get with pathfinder and 3.0+.

    It also adapts well to any setting type. Low to no magic, easy, high magic, also easy. Want to play Romans, theres a book for that. Want to play in classical Greece and fight for or against Troy, play a historical viking, play a Crusader in the first crusade? There's books for those too.

    The book/PDF also comes with the Players handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide, and a brief(although still 30-50 page) monster manual and of course any 2nd edition book will be 100% compatible with no work.

    Also best part to me is characters are not marvel super heroes like they are in 5th. They dont kill equal level monsters with ease and they can definitely die, sometimes extremely quickly.
    Last edited by Corsair14; 2022-03-18 at 07:59 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by D+1 View Post
    Come to the DARK SIDE - play 1E AD&D. The D&D that actually made D&D popular.
    Bah, real old school players use Basic.

    Actually, BECM or B/X aren't a bad shout either, they're even further removed from modern D&D and offer even less focus on build, although I still think they should have made a book with the alternate demihuman classes (such as the Warrior-elf) in one place.

    Plus there's some decent retroclones based on it, Basic Fantasy and Lamentations of the Flame Princess*, which have free versions (LotFP without art) Basic Fantasy is completely free in pdf format, separates race and class, has a lot of community support including homebrew additional races and classes, is available in PoD at cost, and is just generally good all round. There's a couple of other B/X retroclones floating around out there, but BF and LotFP are probably the best.

    * Although the creator of LotFP is, as I understand it, not a nice man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by D+1 View Post
    Come to the DARK SIDE - play 1E AD&D. The D&D that actually made D&D popular.
    I'd argue against it. 1e is arcanely written, and jam packed with racist and sexist stereotypes. It tends towards a very narrow scope of what the game could be, with an emphasis on humanocentric adventures where humanoids are always bad guys. While certainly inventive for its time, there's 45 years of game design and cultural development beyond it.
    The Cranky Gamer
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I'd argue against it. 1e is arcanely written, and jam packed with racist and sexist stereotypes. It tends towards a very narrow scope of what the game could be, with an emphasis on humanocentric adventures where humanoids are always bad guys. While certainly inventive for its time, there's 45 years of game design and cultural development beyond it.
    Well I would definitely not recommend it for the feint of heart {scrubbed} but the horrifying picture you paint of it I haven't seen. Flaws? Oh yes it has flaws, but what better opportunity to make a game into what YOU want and need it to be rather than what an author tells you that you should want? Later editions certainly threw the baby out with the bathwater and disregarded things about it that should never have been left behind. Indeed, when you have a new edition wanting to brag about its "1E feel" then doesn't that tell you there's still something there WORTHWHILE to explore?
    Last edited by Peelee; 2022-03-23 at 10:48 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by D+1 View Post
    Indeed, when you have a new edition wanting to brag about its "1E feel" then doesn't that tell you there's still something there WORTHWHILE to explore?
    A lot of that is nostalgia from people playing when it was current, these days there's little need to play AD&D itself for newer players. The OSR crowd is generally older than the people getting into 5e (which primarily aims for 3.X as played), and are more used to the wargaming roots.

    That's not to say that the gameplay structure is bad. I'm just not convinced that it's best to go for AD&D1e over BD&D, and overall it's probably best to go for Basic Fantasy, which is going to be significantly cheaper (like £4 in print), and keeps the same gameplay structure while getting rid of some of the less user friendly elements (for instance you now have ascending armor class and a to-hit bonus rather than descending AC and to-hit tablds).

    Then you have games like Low Fantasy Gaming, which do a mix of old school and new school rules and style. LFG itself isn't the worst game to look at, seeing as how it manages to be a well designed class system where only a quarter of the core classes have any magic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I'd argue against it. 1e is arcanely written, and jam packed with racist and sexist stereotypes. It tends towards a very narrow scope of what the game could be, with an emphasis on humanocentric adventures where humanoids are always bad guys. While certainly inventive for its time, there's 45 years of game design and cultural development beyond it.
    I REALLY REALLY want to write a game to suit the style 1e was aimed at, but with a cleaned up ruleset and presentation, and more clear procedures about how to play that style.
    "Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking)"

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Telok's Avatar

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    I suppose I'm obligated to mention Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7e. I would not, however, consider it to be very "novice friendly".

    Even with the tools I built for it you have to do some experimentation and a significant amount adjucation & world building. Amusingly the TvTropes page for the game is quite accurate and a good summary.

    One note, the android phone/tablet app has two versions. The recent version has an error in its statistic calculation for rolls that the old version lacks, but it also has help text, shortcuts, implements classic & expanded warp perils, and some minor crash fixes. The html & PDF versions are all correct & working though. The tools will work for both the original books & my own rewrite.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by D+1 View Post
    Well I would definitely not recommend it for the feint of heart {scrubbed} but the horrifying picture you paint of it I haven't seen. Flaws? Oh yes it has flaws, but what better opportunity to make a game into what YOU want and need it to be rather than what an author tells you that you should want? Later editions certainly threw the baby out with the bathwater and disregarded things about it that should never have been left behind. Indeed, when you have a new edition wanting to brag about its "1E feel" then doesn't that tell you there's still something there WORTHWHILE to explore?
    Things that shouldn't have been left behind? Like all races in the PH give women a 1-3 point penalty in maximum strength? Like demi-humans reaching a mandated point of incompetence, except if they're thieves? Like pretending that "can be something, if they roll amazing stats" is a benefit to a race, instead of a hindrance to the class? How about the baked-in rules for racism, or the position that was eventually summed up as "nits make lice" with regards to the young of "monster races"? Oh, and the evil elves? They're all black. And they hate men. And the rules for monster races is "don't do that, because you'll just get buried under racism, regardless."

    As for arcane rules... get three people, from different tables, to describe 1e initiative. Or talk about unarmed combat. Can human assassins switch classes? Can humanoids have different alignments than listed in the MM? Hey, what use does alignment language serve? Let's really dive into 1e psionics. Or maybe random magic items should kill you with no possibility of a save, because it's really fun to lose a character for no reason at all. Or cavaliers, because it's a great idea to give one class (well, two) a means to improve their attributes and no one else. And, hey, a drow with built-in magic powers is a completely reasonable PC, but a hobgoblin? That's going too far.

    1e is seminal, but it's also an early work of a genre that's gained experience. There's certainly good ideas in there, but it's got plenty of racism, sexism, and bad ideas baked in. Fondness for it isn't because it's a good game, but because it's the one that the person is familiar with and nostaligic about. "1e feel" is marketing... and attempt to get folks who never played anything else to buy the newer version.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2022-03-23 at 08:25 PM.
    The Cranky Gamer
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Okay. So 1E is cancelled. Got it.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by D+1 View Post
    Okay. So 1E is cancelled. Got it.
    Well its not quite that bad. People running 1e these days will drop the stuff thats offensive and keep the decent bits. Its a system that expects you to customize it to your liking and dropping the problematic rules won't affect anything.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Bah, real old school players use Basic.

    Actually, BECM or B/X aren't a bad shout either, they're even further removed from modern D&D and offer even less focus on build, although I still think they should have made a book with the alternate demihuman classes (such as the Warrior-elf) in one place.

    Plus there's some decent retroclones based on it, Basic Fantasy and Lamentations of the Flame Princess*, which have free versions (LotFP without art) Basic Fantasy is completely free in pdf format, separates race and class, has a lot of community support including homebrew additional races and classes, is available in PoD at cost, and is just generally good all round. There's a couple of other B/X retroclones floating around out there, but BF and LotFP are probably the best.

    * Although the creator of LotFP is, as I understand it, not a nice man.
    I have been handling a Basic Fantasy campaign for a bit, and have liked the system.

    I am a personal fan of AMBER Diceless (and Lords of Gossamer - similar ruleset without the background from the Amber series of books), but the system is maybe an acquired taste.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by D+1 View Post
    Okay. So 1E is cancelled. Got it.
    It's not cancelled, but I would not suggest it for someone looking to get into something other than 1e. As I said above, it's an early part of the hobby... it's a seminal part of the history... but it's also 40+ years old, and shows it in both design and culture. Going into 1e isn't going to be a good fit for most people today because of these things.
    The Cranky Gamer
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    It's not cancelled, but I would not suggest it for someone looking to get into something other than 1e. As I said above, it's an early part of the hobby... it's a seminal part of the history... but it's also 40+ years old, and shows it in both design and culture. Going into 1e isn't going to be a good fit for most people today because of these things.
    And my counterpoint was that YES, it's old and clunky and it shows. It's going to be a challenge to those not used to creating their own rules to fix significant difficulties or omissions in the mechanics. Some parts will clearly need to be omitted entirely, whether for outdated social ideas (female stat alterations), as well as complete failures of game mechanics (initiative), and more. But none of these are insoluble problems and one of the attractions to someone NEW to 1E would be to examine it from both a historical perspective and from the view of a game designer - THE DM. Every DM is always a game designer to some extent, but in the case of 1E it is a unique opportunity to imagine new ways to solve various issues with it as-written, and thereby make it a game far more uniquely identified with them personally. A set of rules that is guided in the directions THEY want, which is better than a dozen rules expansions hot off the presses written by someone else that are never quite what they personally really wanted them to be.

    I will assert again that 1E is not "jam-packed" with racist and sexist stereotypes. If it were as bad as you paint it - why is discussion of it even tolerated at all? Could it be because not ALL of it is reflecting 1970's-colored glasses and there's still value in it as a viable RPG edition? You hate it. I get that. Some of that, again, IS deserved; some is unfair in condemning a set of rules written by a guy who was in the ongoing process of inventing the game (and is no longer alive to apologize for his failure to be prescient of attitudes 40 years into the future - though he DID write, "others will think of things I didn't and create things beyond my ability". I'll take just a slight additional moment here to suggest people think about that statement from the DMG preface. It's a open invitation and challenge by the creator of the game to show how much better YOU can do as a DM and game designer). For me it competes with 3E (with 1E having a slight edge) as my favorite D&D edition - but NEITHER of them do I consider beyond significant alteration to suit how I want to play the game. Maybe somebody will like 1E for the things it has that aren't the worst parts you can find to cite.
    Last edited by D+1; 2022-03-23 at 07:05 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by D+1 View Post
    It's going to be a challenge to those not used to creating their own rules to fix significant difficulties or omissions in the mechanics. Some parts will clearly need to be omitted entirely, whether for outdated social ideas (female stat alterations), as well as complete failures of game mechanics (initiative), and more.
    And based on the OP's posts, that's not what he's actually looking for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    Well its not quite that bad. People running 1e these days will drop the stuff thats offensive and keep the decent bits. Its a system that expects you to customize it to your liking and dropping the problematic rules won't affect anything.
    Case in point, that's like 75% of what AD&D 2e's changes are. The two systems are basically hyper-compatible and you can use them pretty interchangeably without breaking much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    A game setting does need to be designed to be fun and functional to game in.

    But there's more to good worldbuilding than piling the "parts to game in" on a big pile.

    Farmland isn't there to be adventured in, primarily, but one assumes it's still there and part of the landscape -- just because adventurers don't go there often doesn't mean it doesn't or shouldn't or needn't exist.

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scots Dragon View Post
    Case in point, that's like 75% of what AD&D 2e's changes are. The two systems are basically hyper-compatible and you can use them pretty interchangeably without breaking much.
    Ah yes, those halcyon days when the word edition meant "incremental change" and not "heyo, let's redesign the whole thing from scratch, again"
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Ah yes, those halcyon days when the word edition meant "incremental change" and not "heyo, let's redesign the whole thing from scratch, again"
    To be fair pretty much every game changes far less between editions than WotC D&D, it generally means 'we want to make some big change but we're keeping the core rules identical'. Most of the biggest changes I can think of off the top of my head (Advanced Fighting Fantasy adding a whole stat, The Fantasy Trip making Talent points separate to IQ) pale in comparison to 2e->3e, let alone 3.5->4e or 4e->5e. Maybe Shadowrun changing it's core resolution mechanic in 4e is close.

    Yes I'm aware there's some exceptions, like Nobilis 2e changing the Mundane Actions system, Wounds system, and two of the core stats at once (although that was to deal with a massive imbalance,). But they tend to be exceptions
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    The Hero system from 3e to 4e (or maybe 4e to 5e, didn't pay that much notice) decoupled figured stats, reduced the cost of those stats and gave everyone a... I think about 25% - 30% increase in starting points. Nothing about core gameplay changed and you could easily use old character, just character building. Since its normal & expected for the GM to set point caps for characer building there's basically no change except that you can make a super fast dex character who can't dodge and stuff like that.

    Yeah, D&D is pretty much the only one that does full system reworks from scratch where you can't easily reuse any of your old stuff. Sells more books tho.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scots Dragon View Post
    Case in point, that's like 75% of what AD&D 2e's changes are. The two systems are basically hyper-compatible and you can use them pretty interchangeably without breaking much.
    Which is my answer, as well. There's definitely some stinkers in 2e (rangers got NERFED and, while they needed it, someone got a couple criticals with their two-weapon fighting), but the mechanics are largely the same as 1e, except where they're significantly cleaned up.

    Looking at classics can be great, if you're into classics. If you're not into classics, they're "books unrelated to my perspective".
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    A lot of vitriol going on around here for my beloved 1e... it's a very easy and intuitive system, I don't know what y'all are talking about.

    Seriously though, if someone familiar with 5e wants to branch into older D&D, I'd actually suggest Basic (Becmi or B/X both are good) or a similar retroclone. I absolutely love Old School Essentials, personally, but there are plenty of options. Even the official B/X and BECMI books are available on drive thru rpg for a song. The Rules Cyclopedia is a great option and well priced.

    AD&D 1e is legitimately my favourite system overall, but I have gone over it for years so I'm pretty well versed (and yet still don't know it completely inside-out!), and know how to present it new players, and when I do it's usually ONE new player guesting in an established game where others are already familiar.

    A DM new to 1e, trying to untangle it for other players who are new to 1e, (especially people used to 5e concepts!) is a recipe for disaster.

    Basic/BECMI/OSE etc will allow you capture the feel of classic D&D in an intuitive and easy to learn (for both DMs and players) format.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by PolygonPrism View Post
    I'm still pretty new to the ttrpg scene as I only really got into it in my latter years of college. As of now I have played some other systems I really like, such as Chronicles of Darkness, Classic World of Darkness, and Call of Cthulu. That being said, most of my experience has been with 5e D&D. While I do enjoy the system due to it's simplicity and focus on combat I sometimes find it a bit TOO simple and I'm looking for other games to try. If anybody has any recommendations for other games that are similar, or that work for specific niches (such as combat, role-playing, or mystery solving) I'd be interested in hearing about them. This includes older versions of D&D as aside from 4e (which I remember being very boring) I haven't played anything prior to 5e.

    Thanks a bunch
    I have been playing Dungeon Crawl Classics and have enjoyed it a lot. But it's definitely not for everyone. If you want some Old School Feeling gonzo crazy fantasy, I highly recommend it.

    But maybe you need to get out of fantasy rpgs all together. I have always enjoyed Traveller though it can be hard to find a group.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Looking at classics can be great, if you're into classics. If you're not into classics, they're "books unrelated to my perspective".
    Pretty much the same for any idea, really. But yeah, and even with classics there are better options for newer players.

    I love Classic Doctor Who, but I'd never sit down and force somebody to watch The Enemy of the World just because it's a story with the best Doctor. Even if they were interested in the classic series there's significantly better stories to start with.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadHarve View Post
    The Rules Cyclopedia is a great option and well priced.
    I've been considering getting a PoD of it, as well as Hollow World, but I've heard the scan they're using for PoD is pretty bad. It's a shame, because the scan used for the pdf is quite decent.

    But yeah, in terms of classic D&D I heavily support Basic (B/X or later). Now roll your 3d6 in order and pray you qualify for a class!

    Actually, what did groups actually do with characters who had sub-9 Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Wisdom? I'm presuming most just went 'the character is unsuited to adventuring, roll another' instead of 'Jimbob is a 0th level human who always wanted to be a Fighter but is allergic to metal'.
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post

    But yeah, in terms of classic D&D I heavily support Basic (B/X or later). Now roll your 3d6 in order and pray you qualify for a class!

    Actually, what did groups actually do with characters who had sub-9 Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Wisdom? I'm presuming most just went 'the character is unsuited to adventuring, roll another' instead of 'Jimbob is a 0th level human who always wanted to be a Fighter but is allergic to metal'.

    In basic (BECMI at least) there are no qualifying attributes for the 4 core classes, you can take any class you like, but if you are below a 9 you simply take an XP penalty.

    Players will whine and whine and whine, but don't you don't listen to 'em! Whip that reliance on mechanical advantages out of them for their own good!
    Last edited by BigBadHarve; 2022-03-24 at 05:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by PolygonPrism View Post
    I'm still pretty new to the ttrpg scene as I only really got into it in my latter years of college. As of now I have played some other systems I really like, such as Chronicles of Darkness, Classic World of Darkness, and Call of Cthulu. That being said, most of my experience has been with 5e D&D. While I do enjoy the system due to it's simplicity and focus on combat I sometimes find it a bit TOO simple and I'm looking for other games to try. If anybody has any recommendations for other games that are similar, or that work for specific niches (such as combat, role-playing, or mystery solving) I'd be interested in hearing about them. This includes older versions of D&D as aside from 4e (which I remember being very boring) I haven't played anything prior to 5e.

    Thanks a bunch
    I'd recommend 2e D&D (The easiest entry point being either the core books or For Gold And Glory)
    or
    Castles And Crusades.

    C&C is D&D-adjacent using similar races and classes and feels like it kind of takes from different editions of D&D. Like an alternate 3e if someone took 1e/2e as their inspiration and went a different route.

    TSR-era D&D? 13 classes, 6 D&D-standard races, 6 attributes. Race and class are separate, unlike BX where an Elf was a sword-swinging mage, a Dwarf was a short Fighter with underground skills, etc. Weapons/armor list attempts to get detailed in the 1e "simulationist" style. You stop rolling for HD around 10th and just get a static few HP/level after that.

    Newer D&D? Ascending AC (10+ modifiers of Dex, Armor, etc.), Saving throws based on attributes (rather than attack types) and you get 2 (or 3) attributes to be better at making those saves in.

    Editions of C&C don't matter because they're all just re-edits of the same game, rather than complete rules changes, so you can (and probably will) mix and match the X-edition PHB with the Y-Edition Monster Book and Z-edition Castle Keeper Guide.
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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    There are a ton of games listed here that are great games.

    However, what I am a bit unclear on is what do you like to play OP? What are you looking for that you are not getting from 5E? What did you like/dislike about those other games you tried?

    Without these inputs, all these recommendations, although great and good-intentioned; are just the recommenders preference instead of what you are looking for OP.



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    Default Re: Looking to branch out of D&D 5e, Any Advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by BBQ Pork View Post
    I'd recommend 2e D&D (The easiest entry point being either the core books or For Gold And Glory)
    or
    Castles And Crusades.

    C&C is D&D-adjacent using similar races and classes and feels like it kind of takes from different editions of D&D. Like an alternate 3e if someone took 1e/2e as their inspiration and went a different route.

    TSR-era D&D? 13 classes, 6 D&D-standard races, 6 attributes. Race and class are separate, unlike BX where an Elf was a sword-swinging mage, a Dwarf was a short Fighter with underground skills, etc. Weapons/armor list attempts to get detailed in the 1e "simulationist" style. You stop rolling for HD around 10th and just get a static few HP/level after that.

    Newer D&D? Ascending AC (10+ modifiers of Dex, Armor, etc.), Saving throws based on attributes (rather than attack types) and you get 2 (or 3) attributes to be better at making those saves in.

    Editions of C&C don't matter because they're all just re-edits of the same game, rather than complete rules changes, so you can (and probably will) mix and match the X-edition PHB with the Y-Edition Monster Book and Z-edition Castle Keeper Guide.
    I second the C&C recommendation. It's hard to really categorize. It's been billed as "3e as it should have been"; and it does include ascending AC and consistent attribute bonuses. The Siege engine is a little different, but achieves much the same goal as 5e's proficiency system (and can easily be tossed or streamlined). That said, it's a lot like a tweaked 2e: thief skills are class abilities, which allows you to add your level to any checks. Paladins and rangers are spell-less, which I personally prefer; but there are options in the Castle Keeper's Guide to allow spells. I think in many ways it's plays like 1e, but is simpler to DM (or CK).

    Troll Lord also has their Amazing Adventures line, both a Siege version and a completely 5e-compatible version. I Love these! I'm a huge fan of cross-genre gaming, and AA is great for that OR for "modern" gaming. If WotC doesn't do an actual "D20 Modern" for 5e, AA5e works great! And there are suggestions for using the products in tandem (AA with C&C; AA5e with D&D5e). That opens up a Ton of possibilities for both characters and campaigns.

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