Death Battle Season 9: We're Never Getting Galactus vs. Unicron, Are We?

[Iamyourking]

Since it doesn't look like anyone else will field this, in short-he can't. In more detail, without using the Super state Silver really has three main feats. First, he caught a giant fireball from Iblis and threw it back. Second, he beat Sonic. Third, he's able to keep up with Sonic during the fight against him in Generations. With Super, all he has is the fight with Solaris; but he contributes equally to Super Sonic and Super Shadow, who are roughly Planet-level. Trunks' very first feat, carving up Frieza, outstrips all of those.
The Power Level needed to destroy an Earth-like planet is somewhere between 10,000 (King Vegeta in filler) and 55,000 (First Form Frieza-Power Level 550,000-destroying Planet Vegeta, which is ten times more durable than Earth due to its higher gravity). Namek Saga 100% Frieza had a Power Level of 120-125 million (At 50% he just barely stopped a Kaioken x20 Kamehamaha from a Power Level 3 million Goku), and Mecha-Frieza was slightly stronger than that. Trunks, in his very first appearance, casually beat a character hundreds of times stronger than Super Silver. It's harder to peg how much stronger he's gotten since then, but at absolute bare minimum the fact that he has Super Saiyan 2 makes him at least twice as strong. Obviously he's far stronger than that, since as soon as he returned to the future he easily defeated the Androids, and in Super could spar with a Post-Whis Training Super Saiyan 3 Goku and contribute to the fight with Black, but that's just to give you an idea of what it looks like to compare Silver at his best and Trunks at his worst.
What really sinks Silver here is his lack of variety. He throws things, and that's it. No telekinetic barriers, no fine-scale pinching off blood vessels, no omni-directional crushing, just throwing things. He doesn't have the power or versality to even remotely challenge Trunks without bringing in the Infinite Multiversal Solaris scaling-and if they want to go that crazy Time Patrol Trunks probably has something better via scaling to Demigra.

[Iamyourking]

Spoiler: This Time

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Bond wins due to better gear, not much surprise there.

Spoiler: Next Time

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Black Adam vs Apocalypse.

[Rynjin]

That one might actually be interesting, they both gave some wacky powers. Isn't one of Apocalypse's things that he can regenerate from pretty much anything? Like "from a single atom" or something absurd like that.

[TeChameleon]

'Poccy's powerset, and especially durability, has fluctuated wildly over the years, from 'from a single... cell?.. atom?... whatever' to 'dying ancient being sustained by damaged, failing power armour'.

Honestly, this is at least mildly intriguing, since it's 'not quite Superman' vs. 'fights the entirety of the X-Men in one go'- generally speaking, Black Adam clocks in as roughly one super-weight class lower than Supey... which is odd, since he's supposed to be Captain Marvel/Shazam's dark equal and opposite, and Earth's Mightiest Mortal is portrayed as being one of the few who can hold his own against Supes. *shrug* whatever.

[Rynjin]

I think the Shazam/Superman dichotomy has always been that in concrete terms Shazam is a bit weaker (meaning by extension so is Black Adam), but his powers being magic-based gives him enough of an edge to make up that "tier gap" given Superman's lack of a specific resistance to magic.

[Forum Explorer]

Spoiler: This time

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I called it, and was very happy to see them mention that Bond could turtle up in his car and Wick had nothing that could touch Bond in there.

But it was even more of a mismatch than I was expecting. I forgot that Bond wasn't just a spy, but served in WW2 as a full on solider first. He had actually had way more experience than John in pretty much every category, so John didn't even have the skill advantage.

Plus their skills were a bad match up. James is never unarmed due to having dozens of gadgets and is a super spy/solider. John is an assassin who can turn anything into a weapon, but that's actually still a lot less effective than you know, actual weapons

Spoiler: Next time

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I'll admit, as soon as I hear Marvel vs DC my interest plummets.

[Rynjin]

What typically matters to me is whether the matchup seems like it might be at least arguable. This one does, which is why I'm interested even if it is the umpteenth Marvel vs DC options.

Many of the last several matches have been such obscene mismatches with obvious outcomes that nobody was even interested in discussing them in this thread. Damn, I wonder who'd win in a fight: literally just some dude with a lot of training, or a guy with that same training and also the ability to shoot rockets out of his wristwatch. Hmmm...

Some of the others have just been...what? Excalibur vs Raiden? Why do I care? Excalibur is literally not even a character, he is a suite of abilities you can equip in a game.

In both of these cases, there's not much worth discussing.

At least I know who Black Adam and Apocalypse ARE, and that they both have wacky enough feats it could literally go either way.

[Rater202]

That one might actually be interesting, they both gave some wacky powers. Isn't one of Apocalypse's things that he can regenerate from pretty much anything? Like "from a single atom" or something absurd like that.

No. Nur's advantage is that he's an External, which means he can't permanently die except by a life drainigng attack or at the hands of another External, and his primary power is the ability to control his own molecules to an absurd degree, but his healing factor has fluctuated from "peak human" to "green goblin" tier.

He is, however, more resistant to damage and possesses superhuman toughness.

Not to mention that his power level fluctuates based on the quality of his host body: In his orignal body he could shrug off a full-powered blast from Cyclops(who at full power has blasted the head of a Celstial and atomized a man) a the same time as a full powered scream from Black Bolt while they were being supported by high end energy weapons used by the rest of their respective teams.

However, his host body was breaking down—He'd made himsef too powerful for his body to contain and he needed to transfer himself into one that was stronger underneath the power-ups. Ideally, one that would make him even stronger.

He uh... Did not get many host bodies that were stronger than his orignal, even after receiving his DNA and enhancements. Compounding the issue is that the means of body-that he was using caused him to permenantly absorb the powers and useful Genetic and Biological traits from the host, so each bad host meant he'd need an even better host to fix the problem when this one wore out.

His most recent body is that of a "perfect immortal" that he genetically engineered from human stock and it's strong enough to contain his full power without breaking down... But he doesn't really have any feats since then on par with his feats from his orignal run so we're taking it on faith.

Nur is one of my favorite characters in any fiction, I've done a lot of research into him... He can't win against Black Atom. Even at the most favorable interpretation of his absolute strongest showings and assuming the existence of powers he logically should have but hasn't demonstrated(he should have Scott's powers from the time Scott was his host, for example) he's not on Black Addam's level.

H's also notably demonstrated trouble in healing wounds inflicted by supernatural sources—a bite from Dracula in bat form didn't heal until he started hibernating in a rejuvenation chamber.

[Forum Explorer]

No. Nur's advantage is that he's an External, which means he can't permanently die except by a life drainigng attack or at the hands of another External, and his primary power is the ability to control his own molecules to an absurd degree, but his healing factor has fluctuated from "peak human" to "green goblin" tier.

He is, however, more resistant to damage and possesses superhuman toughness.

Not to mention that his power level fluctuates based on the quality of his host body: In his orignal body he could shrug off a full-powered blast from Cyclops(who at full power has blasted the head of a Celstial and atomized a man) a the same time as a full powered scream from Black Bolt while they were being supported by high end energy weapons used by the rest of their respective teams.

However, his host body was breaking down—He'd made himsef too powerful for his body to contain and he needed to transfer himself into one that was stronger underneath the power-ups. Ideally, one that would make him even stronger.

He uh... Did not get many host bodies that were stronger than his orignal, even after receiving his DNA and enhancements. Compounding the issue is that the means of body-that he was using caused him to permenantly absorb the powers and useful Genetic and Biological traits from the host, so each bad host meant he'd need an even better host to fix the problem when this one wore out.

His most recent body is that of a "perfect immortal" that he genetically engineered from human stock and it's strong enough to contain his full power without breaking down... But he doesn't really have any feats since then on par with his feats from his orignal run so we're taking it on faith.

Nur is one of my favorite characters in any fiction, I've done a lot of research into him... He can't win against Black Atom. Even at the most favorable interpretation of his absolute strongest showings and assuming the existence of powers he logically should have but hasn't demonstrated(he should have Scott's powers from the time Scott was his host, for example) he's not on Black Addam's level.

H's also notably demonstrated trouble in healing wounds inflicted by supernatural sources—a bite from Dracula in bat form didn't heal until he started hibernating in a rejuvenation chamber.

I mean isn't Black Adam roughly equivilent to Shazam? Who has the absolutely infuriating feat of punching a black hole into existence? Because if they scale Black Adam to that, I have a hard time imaging that Apocalypse has a chance.

[Rynjin]

No. Nur's advantage is that he's an External, which means he can't permanently die except by a life drainigng attack or at the hands of another External, and his primary power is the ability to control his own molecules to an absurd degree, but his healing factor has fluctuated from "peak human" to "green goblin" tier.

This is what I meant. I was pretty sure there was something he did at one point where he was blasted into dust and just reconstituted his body via molecular manipulation. Functionally similar to regeneration in this case.

[Rater202]

I mean isn't Black Adam roughly equivilent to Shazam? Who has the absolutely infuriating feat of punching a black hole into existence? Because if they scale Black Adam to that, I have a hard time imaging that Apocalypse has a chance.

Yeah, they're totally gonna scale Adam to Shazam and use that out-of-context feat to justify Nur's loss.

Nur's only advantage is that he doesn't rely on his natural immortality, he tends have backup plans to resurrect himself in play so they might go for a "it's not a fight to the death it's fighting to permma death."

He could also theoretically pull a piece of Celestial technology out of his ass but...

Honestly, Nur's only chance to win would be to body-jack Black Adam... In which case unless they go with Post-Age of X-Man Nur everyone loses.

This is what I meant. I was pretty sure there was something he did at one point where he was blasted into dust and just reconstituted his body via molecular manipulation. Functionally similar to regeneration in this case.

I don't recakll that.

He has a tendency to dodge attacks by reconstituting himself into a taffy-like substance and then bending out of the way/splitting apart and then pulling together. You might be thinking of that.

[Traab]

At first i figured wick had the advantage because while bond is a very highly trained and experienced spy, seducer, soldier, killer, wick is an equally highly trained pure killer. Bond is a jack of all trades, wick is a master of 1. And that 1 happens to be what death battles revolve around. Then they started bringing out game and comic feats, and of course giving him the link treatment where he gets to cherry pick whatever random sci fi magic items they want to give him from all 90 films games shows books, and comics, and I knew who was going to win.

As for next time, I dont know enough about either to say, I only know apocalypse from the xmen cartoon back in my childhood. And I barely know anything about black adam.

[McNum]

Bond winning due to being better equipped seems fair enough to me. They were fairly evenly matched otherwise, with Bond being a slightly better marksman and Wick having an edge in melee. And then the Aston Martin enters the fight and by then it's advantage Bond all the way out.

I don't know enough about Apocalypse or Black Adam to make a call for them, but it sounds like Death Battle needs to bring back their Hulk resurrection clause. "If the combatant can revive fast enough to rejoin the fight, it doesn't count. But if it takes too long, they lose."

Honestly, they probably should consider a ten-count on resurrecting fighters. If you can't get back by the count of ten, you're out.

[Forum Explorer]

At first i figured wick had the advantage because while bond is a very highly trained and experienced spy, seducer, soldier, killer, wick is an equally highly trained pure killer. Bond is a jack of all trades, wick is a master of 1. And that 1 happens to be what death battles revolve around. Then they started bringing out game and comic feats, and of course giving him the link treatment where he gets to cherry pick whatever random sci fi magic items they want to give him from all 90 films games shows books, and comics, and I knew who was going to win.

As for next time, I dont know enough about either to say, I only know apocalypse from the xmen cartoon back in my childhood. And I barely know anything about black adam.

The difference is that it is typically the same Bond. He has actually used all of those weapons at any one time, and there's no reason he couldn't have any combination of them considering they were nearly all made by the same guy, who supplies all of Bond's gadgets anyways.

Rather than Link who is a reincarnation, and thus some items may no longer exist for a different Link to access. Or have been invented yet. There's a very good reason why Link couldn't have access to every combination of gear from across games.

[DaedalusMkV]

At first i figured wick had the advantage because while bond is a very highly trained and experienced spy, seducer, soldier, killer, wick is an equally highly trained pure killer. Bond is a jack of all trades, wick is a master of 1. And that 1 happens to be what death battles revolve around. Then they started bringing out game and comic feats, and of course giving him the link treatment where he gets to cherry pick whatever random sci fi magic items they want to give him from all 90 films games shows books, and comics, and I knew who was going to win.

As for next time, I dont know enough about either to say, I only know apocalypse from the xmen cartoon back in my childhood. And I barely know anything about black adam.

The thing with this is that, if you take all of the things that Bond has canonically done... Or even just his average performance in any given piece of media... He isn't so much of a jack of all trades as a master of all trades. He's a guy who quickly jumps out from behind a wall, fires a pistol from the hip three times and three mooks on a catwalk a hundred meters away get shot. Who gets into a fistfight with a master martial artist and takes him out no problem. Then gets into a swordfight with an Olympic fencer and beats him. Who drives any car he gets his hands on like a professional stuntman, can fly any aircraft you care to name up to and including space shuttles and rockets, talk his way out of any situation, seduce any person he cares to and sneak his way through tight security. Who rolls up to any gambling table you can imagine and walks away with everyone's money every time. He only ever fails at anything when he's up against a world-class villain who makes the entire CIA working together look like a bunch of clueless idiots. And then not for long. And only in the villain's specific area of expertise.

Add on to that an arsenal of sci-fi gadgets and weaponry running everything spy fiction writers can come up with and you get a guy who will never be a fair match for a mere unstoppable force of nature like John Wick. If you include the video games, where he can take missiles to the chin without dying and has access to tools like invisibility cloaks, energy shields and jetpacks, he starts to look more on the level of a comic-book Superhero than a pulp action hero. You don't even need to cherry-pick if you include the video games. All of the stuff I just mentioned? In the video game From Russia With Love.

[Rynjin]

Even if you give Bond his most basic gear, he would take it. In every Bond film he has some of the same things. There's always some kind of laser cutter device, a reinforced/bulletproof outfit, some explosives, and (of course) a fancy car. And, you know, a gun.

Limit him to just these things and he's AT WORST John Wick but better equipped, as I said earlier. At best, he simply outclasses him in training, experience, and sheer chutzpah.

James Bond was designed to be a Mary Sue lol, no even vaguely normal person stands a chance.

[HolyDraconus]

The winner is

Spoiler

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Apocalypse.

Next time

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Trunks v Silver. Of note, they are showing dragon ball hero Trunks that has SSG, and obtained before that SS3.

[McNum]

This time, I really had no horse in this race.

Spoiler: Next Time

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Trunks vs. Archie Silver? Reminder that Archie Sonic was a fair matchup against The Flash some battles ago. This could be a lot closer than we thought when it was game Silver we were thinking of.

[Iamyourking]

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Heroes characters are on a whole other level of power compared to even Super ones. This looks like another Arbitrarily High Number of Universes-scale fight.

[Rynjin]

I'm a little interested in watching this one. Everybody seemed to think it was a stomp for Black Adam before the episode dropped.

[Rater202]

Spoiler: This Time

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I feel conflicted about this one. On the one hand, Nur's my boy... On the other, Black Adam scales to Shazam who scales to Superman andI'm not sure that they interpreted some of Nur's feats properly.

In particular, I don't think that the death Seed is typically inside him.

I don't have a stake in the next fight.

[Forum Explorer]

Spoiler: This time

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I'm a little surprised Apocalypse won, but I suppose if you scale him to Thor's absolute best and combine that with every X-men's feat at their absolute best, Apocalypse becomes a pretty insane powerhouse.

Regardless, I couldn't understand a single word he said in this death battle which is annoying.

[Traab]

Spoiler: This time

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I'm a little surprised Apocalypse won, but I suppose if you scale him to Thor's absolute best and combine that with every X-men's feat at their absolute best, Apocalypse becomes a pretty insane powerhouse.

Regardless, I couldn't understand a single word he said in this death battle which is annoying.

Yeah, I was very unimpressed with the quality of this fight. It was just this mishmash of blurs and unintelligible speech.

[McNum]

So the previews are out for Xeno Trunks vs. Archie Silver. This is going to be a doozy of a fight.

Interestingly for Trunks, they're also giving him his Goku Black arc stuff as it's implied in Heroes that Xeno Trunks did that as well. And for Silver, well, he's not as fast as Archie Sonic, nor as strong as Archie Knuckles, but he has mastered Chaos Control and can time travel on his own power.

I asked earlier in this thread how Silver could stand a chance against Trunks if all came up Silver. Silver getting to pull from the Archie comics against an even stronger Trunks is certainly a way to make it sporting.

[Traab]

The battle is out!

Spoiler: this time

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As soon as they said silver was faster than time itself I was fairly sure how it would go. That sword of trunks was the only x factor. I know nothing much about either so I had no horse in the race, but assuming their info was accurate (which is always a big assumption for them) the outcome made sense. Archie comics Silver was just operating on a much larger scale than trunks.

Spoiler: next time

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Joy, a joke battle. Dont know, dont really care. I was too old for spongebob but too young for superfriends.

[Rater202]

Spoiler: Next Time

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The main thing to note about Superfriends is that an episode in the 80s was the first time ever that Batman's origin story was depicted in any media outside of the comics and that they did a Death of Superman arc before the comics did.

...Also, a lot of heroes based on ethnic stereotypes that are just uncomfortable to watch today.

Anyway, gonna give it to Spongebob. Superfriends, quite infamously, downplayed or ignored pretty much everything Aquaman could do other than breathe underwater and talk to fish.

Spongebob, quite famously, is a master of karate and in more episodes than I can count demonstrates virtual immortality via a regenerative healing factor.

This coupled with his greater degree of toon physics gives him a solid advantage.

[TeChameleon]

Spoiler: This Time

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I... huh. My main takeaway from this one was just how incredibly broken the Flash is from his win over Archie Sonic, if Archie Silver can even semi-reliably bring down Xenoverse Trunks.

Spoiler: Next Time

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Superfriends Aquaman did have some bizarre outlier feats, like drowning every coastline in the Pacific Basin with a fish-generated wave (Challenge of the Superfriends Ep. 2, "Invasion of the Fearians"), but for the most part, I'd tend to agree that Spongebob's Toon physics give him a serious edge. Also, this matchup sounds kind of dumb...

[Forum Explorer]

Spoiler: This time

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This feels like a what's the word...a case of unstoppable meets unmovable. Trunk's sword can seal away any and all skills. But Super Silver can resist being overwritten. And both have fought opponents capable of destroying or overwriting the infinite multiverse. Which, key word being infinite. You can't have a smaller infinite, else it isn't infinite.

Anyways they went with saying that Trunk's sword wouldn't work, but I feel like they could have just as easily said it would work.

Spoiler: Next time

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Time to settle the debate nobody cared about.

[Iamyourking]

Spoiler: This Time

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Here's what the author of Archie Sonic has to say:
https://twitter.com/IanFlynnBKC/stat...5Es1_&ref_url=
"Nah, I don't buy it.
If you have to kit out Silver with the Chaos Emeralds AND a Time Stone just so he can compete, that's not a fair fight. Xeno-Trunks's abilities are innate. Even w/o the sword & gadgets, he could nuke Silver from orbit."
Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense Of Scale or Death Battle Has No Sense Of How To Accurately Depict Characters, depending on which side of the debate one falls on.

[Rater202]

Spoiler: Next Time

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Like, I think that SpongeBob's biggest advantage is that Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy are almost a 1-1 translation of Superfriends Era Aquaman's abilities, and well...

When Mermaid Man and Barnacle boy came out of retirement becuase they were convinced that Spongebob and Parick were villains, Spongebob and Patrick tanked everything the two elderly heroes could dish out.