Death Battle Season 9: We're Never Getting Galactus vs. Unicron, Are We?

[Lemmy]

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I'm fairly certain it's the titular "character" (more plot device) Akira that does that.

TBF... Canonically, end-book Tetsuo is as powerful as Akira (but didn't know it), so DB could pull some transitive shenanigans.

[HolyDraconus]

TBF... Canonically, end-book Tetsuo is as powerful as Akira (but didn't know it), so DB could pull some transitive shenanigans.

They can also used the same logic they did for Alucard and say that he wasn't cause of story reasons so they can't give it to him.

[Iamyourking]

I also don't think it would hugely matter. Magneto undoubtedly has his own transitive shenanigans via scaling to Marvel's various cosmic entities.

[Rater202]

Kitty Pryde spent several years trapped in a metal bullet that she couldn't phase through that was shot into space, only surviving because in her phased state he doesn't need food, water, or air.

Magneto rescued her by feeling out for adn grabbing the bullet, which was several lifght years away at this point, and pulling it back o earth at FTL speeds.

Not only is he an OMega LEvel Mutant, he's the strongest omega. Every mutant who beats him out in raw power is either a Beyond Oemga or Manifold(who really should be considered an Omega or Beyond Omega but isn't because of a technicality. Tough he personally doens't give a damn.)

[SKarious]

I don't know where Tetsuo's from, but he looks human.
So, can Magneto just bloodbend him for an instakill?

[Iamyourking]

I don't know where Tetsuo's from, but he looks human.
So, can Magneto just bloodbend him for an instakill?

Probably, but it's contingent on how good of a defense a telekinetic barrier is against said bloodbending. Obviously there's a significant difference in raw power, but a good place to start would be to see if he's ever tried it against Jean Grey.

[Rynjin]

I don't know where Tetsuo's from, but he looks human.

Tetsuo is one of the primary characters of Akira, one of the most visually influential works of fiction of all time. Not as in "this influenced a lot of other anime", but in terms of all visual media both in Japan and the west. The Matrix, for example, might not exist without Akira (and Ghost in the Shell, even more so).

He has psychic abilities of a relatively undefined scope and power. He kind of has the "do anything" package of psychic powers (though primarily telekinesis), but the effectiveness of any given thing he does varies over the course of the series as he gets a grip on what he can do.

[TeChameleon]

Re. Magneto bloodbending, while he can do that, it's... not something he makes a habit of. Oddly, the only canonical reference I can think of to that (although I'm about 99.9% certain there are others, because it's a nifty trick and writers love pulling those out), he was using it to... mind... control... the Avengers? It was kind of a weird story. Even by comic book standards.

Not that familiar with Akira- fairly certain I watched/read it at some point, but my memory of it is fuzzy at best- but Magneto has some utterly bizarre outlier feats, mostly because his powers are physics-based and English majors don't tend to have the firmest grasp on that. The aforementioned city-sized-FTL-bullet-catch, wormholes, mind-control-via-magnetizing-blood-in-the-brain... anything that the writers could justify as being vaguely related to electromagnetism, he's probably done. He's also apparently powerfully telepathic (just because?) and a technological supergenius, with AI, an orbital base, and a handful of other techno-oddities to his credit.

Honestly not sure how much of a chance Tetsuo has on this one, vaguely-defined psychic powers or not. Magneto's been fighting vaguely-defined psychic powers for the majority of his (quite long) adult life, and if Professor X, the White Queen, the Shadow King, Cable, Nate Grey, the Overseer, Cassandra Nova, Mastermind, Mr Sinister, Apocalypse, Kid Omega, and/or Jean Grey (Legion and Franklin Richards are the only two psychic-types I can think of that could probably put Magneto down without much trouble) can't cark 'im, Tetsuo doesn't seem a likely candidate either.

[HolyDraconus]

Re. Magneto bloodbending, while he can do that, it's... not something he makes a habit of. Oddly, the only canonical reference I can think of to that (although I'm about 99.9% certain there are others, because it's a nifty trick and writers love pulling those out), he was using it to... mind... control... the Avengers? It was kind of a weird story. Even by comic book standards.

Not that familiar with Akira- fairly certain I watched/read it at some point, but my memory of it is fuzzy at best- but Magneto has some utterly bizarre outlier feats, mostly because his powers are physics-based and English majors don't tend to have the firmest grasp on that. The aforementioned city-sized-FTL-bullet-catch, wormholes, mind-control-via-magnetizing-blood-in-the-brain... anything that the writers could justify as being vaguely related to electromagnetism, he's probably done. He's also apparently powerfully telepathic (just because?) and a technological supergenius, with AI, an orbital base, and a handful of other techno-oddities to his credit.

Honestly not sure how much of a chance Tetsuo has on this one, vaguely-defined psychic powers or not. Magneto's been fighting vaguely-defined psychic powers for the majority of his (quite long) adult life, and if Professor X, the White Queen, the Shadow King, Cable, Nate Grey, the Overseer, Cassandra Nova, Mastermind, Mr Sinister, Apocalypse, Kid Omega, and/or Jean Grey (Legion and Franklin Richards are the only two psychic-types I can think of that could probably put Magneto down without much trouble) can't cark 'im, Tetsuo doesn't seem a likely candidate either.

It’s been a LONG time since I seen Akira, but from memory I believe that Tetsuo’s go to opener is exploding heads, and his end of arc power was transcending to another plane/ becoming a god/ blowing up a universe or some such thing. The master of magnets has more feats to draw from, but there is at least a case to be made that Tetsuo is Franklin level.


Personally, I’m going to chalk this matchup to whoever will generate more salt on a loss… and say Tetsuo will win.

[Lemmy]

They can also used the same logic they did for Alucard and say that he wasn't cause of story reasons so they can't give it to him.

Well, expecting consistency (or impartiality) from DB is a lost cause, so I wouldn't put anything past them.

Kitty Pryde spent several years trapped in a metal bullet that she couldn't phase through that was shot into space, only surviving because in her phased state he doesn't need food, water, or air.

Magneto rescued her by feeling out for adn grabbing the bullet, which was several lifght years away at this point, and pulling it back o earth at FTL speeds.

Not only is he an OMega LEvel Mutant, he's the strongest omega. Every mutant who beats him out in raw power is either a Beyond Oemga or Manifold(who really should be considered an Omega or Beyond Omega but isn't because of a technicality. Tough he personally doens't give a damn.)

IIRC, it's not that she couldn't phase through it... She just stayed with the bullet to keep the whole thing phased in order to stop it from destroying any planets... There's actually a pretty cool story about a whole civilization preparing for the impact with the giant bullet... And then it just passes through their planet.

But anyway... You're right about what Magneto did.

Perhaps even more impressive, he once opened a freaking wormhole just because he was in that much of a hurry to go save his daughter.

[Anonymouswizard]

Perhaps even more impressive, he once opened a freaking wormhole just because he was in that much of a hurry to go save his daughter.

I was going to stay out of this, but yeah, that's just utterly ridiculous. Tetsuto may have done something on a similar scale, but I think when it comes to feats of scale certainly will triumph.

Although to be fair pulling a bullet at FTL speeds would require roughly infinite force by my understanding, so in Death Battle logic Magneto is already immune to all harm.

So I'm looking forward to them explaining how Tetsuto is more stacks of TNT when he creates a universe than Magneto is when he rips apart a Skrill or whatever they pick.

[Dragonus45]

So it's been longer then I would like to admit it has been since I read Akira in highscool, but I want to say that Tetsuo wasn't the one who actually created a brand new universe. That was Akira, he might have needed an assist from the other espers to make it work as well? I do remember that Tetsuo was gaining power and expanding so rapidly it would take literally just a new empty universe to contain him and he may or may not have literally been the "big bang" in that new world. I am now curious how much TNT was used in the Big Bang.

[Lemmy]

Although to be fair pulling a bullet at FTL speeds would require roughly infinite force by my understanding, so in Death Battle logic Magneto is already immune to all harm.

Well, TBF, space is really small in comic books... It's supposed to be as big as IRL, but anyone and anything with even moderate flight speeds can travel to other planets in a matter of minutes and to other galaxies in a matter of hours... Because a story based in space would be kind boring if it were "and then... Green Lantern spent 900 years travelling in a straight line at the speed of light just to get from Oa back to Earth".

[awa]

Well, TBF, space is really small in comic books... It's supposed to be as big as IRL, but anyone and anything with even moderate flight speeds can travel to other planets in a matter of minutes and to other galaxies in a matter of hours... Because a story based in space would be kind boring if it were "and then... Green Lantern spent 900 years travelling in a straight line at the speed of light just to get from Oa back to Earth".

Yes but death battle takes all these errors of understanding and basis their physics on them to get some of their dumbest figures. So that will only help magneto.

[Anonymouswizard]

Well, TBF, space is really small in comic books... It's supposed to be as big as IRL, but anyone and anything with even moderate flight speeds can travel to other planets in a matter of minutes and to other galaxies in a matter of hours... Because a story based in space would be kind boring if it were "and then... Green Lantern spent 900 years travelling in a straight line at the speed of light just to get from Oa back to Earth".

This is the same show that took 'superman lifted infinity' seriously. The best Tetsuto can hope for is them somehow missing this feat.

Which means I want to see another Marvel Vs DC one with them using that logic.

[Lemmy]

Yes but death battle takes all these errors of understanding and basis their physics on them to get some of their dumbest figures. So that will only help magneto.

This is the same show that took 'superman lifted infinity' seriously. The best Tetsuto can hope for is them somehow missing this feat.

Which means I want to see another Marvel Vs DC one with them using that logic.

I know, I know... I did say "To be fair", which already makes my statement incompatible with DB's "logic". It'd be like saying "Being realistic" in a discussion about a Tom & Jerry cartoon.

[Iamyourking]

Now that First Members have seen the fight, the next one has been leaked; and it's possibly an even bigger curveball than Saitama vs. Popeye.

Spoiler: Next Time

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Herakles vs. Sun Wukong. The mythological figures.

This is going to be weird.

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I think Wukong has better immediately quantifiable feats, since he's immortal in multiple different ways, can jump across the universe, and his Gold-Banded-Staff has a specifically defined weight; while Herakles' best feat is holding up the sky. Which I was going to say doesn't have a defined weight, but they'll probably just take the combined mass of the Earth's atmosphere. Where Herakles might have an edge is via scaling, if they argue that he is capable of any feat of strength performed by any other Olympian such as Zeus dropping Mount Etna on Typhon. That may actually be the magic bullet they need to give the win to Herakles, since Wukong can explicitly be incapacitated by dropping a mountain on him. It also kind of depends on what they consider to be a primary source. Wukong is easy enough, since they can just use the original text of Journey to the West, but Herakles doesn't really have anything like that.

As for the half-season finale:

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At least this increases the odds that Fett will be fighting the Predator, because Star Lord could work for a regular episode but isn't appealing enough for a major one like that.

[McNum]

Now that First Members have seen the fight, the next one has been leaked; and it's possibly an even bigger curveball than Saitama vs. Popeye.

Spoiler: Next Time

Show

Herakles vs. Sun Wukong. The mythological figures.

This is going to be weird.

Spoiler

Show

I think Wukong has better immediately quantifiable feats, since he's immortal in multiple different ways, can jump across the universe, and his Gold-Banded-Staff has a specifically defined weight; while Herakles' best feat is holding up the sky. Which I was going to say doesn't have a defined weight, but they'll probably just take the combined mass of the Earth's atmosphere. Where Herakles might have an edge is via scaling, if they argue that he is capable of any feat of strength performed by any other Olympian such as Zeus dropping Mount Etna on Typhon. That may actually be the magic bullet they need to give the win to Herakles, since Wukong can explicitly be incapacitated by dropping a mountain on him. It also kind of depends on what they consider to be a primary source. Wukong is easy enough, since they can just use the original text of Journey to the West, but Herakles doesn't really have anything like that.

As for the half-season finale:

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At least this increases the odds that Fett will be fighting the Predator, because Star Lord could work for a regular episode but isn't appealing enough for a major one like that.

So next time...

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Superman vs. Goku III: This time, it's Mythological!

I kid, but at the same time, Goku is clearly based on Sun Wukong, but I'm not entirely sure if Superman is based on Hercules, though they are from the same archetype, at least.

[HolyDraconus]

They can also used the same logic they did for Alucard and say that he wasn't cause of story reasons so they can't give it to him.

Well, expecting consistency (or impartiality) from DB is a lost cause, so I wouldn't put anything past them.

Spoiler: This Time on Death Battle

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They did exactly that. One source says he did, another says he didn't, so he didn't. I'm surprised they didn't go for the salt mine but eh, it was fairly in Magnus' favor without it.

Now that First Members have seen the fight, the next one has been leaked; and it's possibly an even bigger curveball than Saitama vs. Popeye.

Spoiler: Next Time

Show

Herakles vs. Sun Wukong. The mythological figures.

This is going to be weird.

Spoiler

Show

I think Wukong has better immediately quantifiable feats, since he's immortal in multiple different ways, can jump across the universe, and his Gold-Banded-Staff has a specifically defined weight; while Herakles' best feat is holding up the sky. Which I was going to say doesn't have a defined weight, but they'll probably just take the combined mass of the Earth's atmosphere. Where Herakles might have an edge is via scaling, if they argue that he is capable of any feat of strength performed by any other Olympian such as Zeus dropping Mount Etna on Typhon. That may actually be the magic bullet they need to give the win to Herakles, since Wukong can explicitly be incapacitated by dropping a mountain on him. It also kind of depends on what they consider to be a primary source. Wukong is easy enough, since they can just use the original text of Journey to the West, but Herakles doesn't really have anything like that.

As for the half-season finale:

Spoiler

Show

At least this increases the odds that Fett will be fighting the Predator, because Star Lord could work for a regular episode but isn't appealing enough for a major one like that.

Spoiler: Next Time

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So.... they are on a roll with showing consistency here... and if they keep that up, they can probably say big H is universal. They called back feats in Geets fight and this week's fight, so them stating that yeah, Herakles is dimensional is inline with that.

[Lemmy]

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The only feats that give Herakles a chance:

1- He held the sky (which can mean anything between carrying the atmosphere, the planet or the whole universe... Personally, I'd say "the planet" is the one that makes most sense... In so much as "make sense" can apply to this.
2- He was able to wound Hades, a full-fledged god... And implied to have been able to kill him, if it had come to that.
3- He is said to be at least as strong as every other Olympian, Zeus included.

Even so, I'd still probably give the W to Sun Wukong, just because he's so much more versatile.

[Anteros]

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The only feats that give Herakles a chance:

1- He held the sky (which can mean anything between carrying the atmosphere, the planet or the whole universe... Personally, I'd say "the planet" is the one that makes most sense... In so much as "make sense" can apply to this.
2- He was able to wound Hades, a full-fledged god... And implied to have been able to kill him, if it had come to that.
3- He is said to be at least as strong as every other Olympian, Zeus included.

Even so, I'd still probably give the W to Sun Wukong, just because he's so much more versatile.

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Well, like someone else said. Zeus can throw mountains, which is explicitly enough to bring down the Monkey King, and Herc explicitly scales to Zeus.

Also, Herc ascends to full fledged godhood in at least some of the myths. It's been a while since I read Journey to the West, but I seem to recall MK's whole thing being going up against the gods and losing.

[hungrycrow]

Spoiler: Mythology spoilers

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Does Heracles scale specifically to Zeus, or just gods in general? Zeus is the strongest god, supposedly stronger than every other god put together, so I wouldn't give Heracles his feats just because he has god-level strength.

[Anteros]

Spoiler: Mythology spoilers

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Does Heracles scale specifically to Zeus, or just gods in general? Zeus is the strongest god, supposedly stronger than every other god put together, so I wouldn't give Heracles his feats just because he has god-level strength.

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I would say he scales to Zeus in strength, but Zeus obviously has a lot of other powers that Hercules doesn't have access to.

[Traab]

I just want to talk about this battle for a sec.

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As soon as I saw that tetsuos whole thing was basically losing control for his biggest feats, I knew magneto was going to win. It was basically a less balanced wanda versus zatana where control was a key issue.

[theNater]

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...Wukong can explicitly be incapacitated by dropping a mountain on him.

Spoiler: Mountains

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I'll freely admit that all my knowledge of The Journey To The West comes from the Overly Sarcastic Productions summary, but it was my understanding that the mountain had to be supernaturally enhanced to stop Sun Wukong. I don't think the mountain-dropping is going to work.

[Iamyourking]

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And lifting mountains isn't strictly limited to Zeus. Some Giants did it too, and Herakles can easily be scaled to Giants via his role in the Gigantomachy. Where I currently think he's going to fall short (And I'm sure I'll change my mind several times over the next few weeks) is that Sun Wukong just can't die. The Gods tried everything they could think of to kill him and none of it worked. He can be beaten, as he was by Nezha and the Buddha, he's susceptible enough to pain that the threat of it was sufficient to keep him in line, and dropping a mountain on him can incapacitate him; but I just don't think it's possible to fulfill the condition that the loser must die.

[Rynjin]

Don't they have a "render incapable to fight" clause for true immortals?

[Iamyourking]

I don't think so, but I'll look into it.

Spoiler: On Mountains

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I checked my copy of Journey to the West, and you were correct-Buddha put a seal on it; but it's absolutely like Death Battle to say "This combatant was defeated in a specific manner that we have very good reason to believe that the other one has the ability and desire to replicate-allowing him to gain the advantage." while ignoring the context. Ultimately, while I could initially see how either one could win and went back and forth a couple of times after my initial post; I think I've settled on Wukong unless I see a strong argument to the contrary. I think Herakles' best chances are ignoring the context to produce a Magic Bullet, trying to argue that overpowering Thanatos makes him a conceptual entity on the level of Buddha, or just saying that even if Wukong is more immortal neither one can die and the fight's a draw.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Spoiler: More mountains

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While the Buddha put a seal on the mountain for Wukong's most famous defeat, on the journey proper a demon is able to stop Wukong by dropping 3 mountains on top of him (I want to say it was Red Boy?).

I haven't read the book, but OSP implied that that worked in large part by triggering PTSD in Wukong. Don't know how accurate that is, or whether DB would allow that as a lose condition in the fight.

[Rater202]

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While he was defeated early on by the best warrior there was among the gods, he was otherwise handing them their asses.

And after they tried and failed to execute him by throwing him into the flame used to cook and refine the ingredients for the pills of immortality, and the various immortality drugs in his system concentrated and solidified, the only thing able to stop his rampage through the Heavens was the direct intervention of The Buddha and even he needed to physically trap Wukon and then seal him away rather than defeat him outright.

Considering that at the end of the novel Wukong becomes a buddha himself...