A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #511
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    Quote Originally Posted by LCP View Post
    I would like to know, just for the sake of argument, whether if somebody put e.g. a Santa-Claus themed Ork army on the table, whether that would also provoke an essay-length post trawling through 50 books of pulp sci-fi to establish whether Orks had a concept of Christmas.
    Who gives a ****? Play the game.

    Now, if you said;

    This is my hoard of Boyz from 8th Ed. and I'm going to be using those rules and yes I know it's 9th Ed. now and yes I know 9th Ed. exists and everyone is playing that, but I'm gonna play with 8th Ed. rules because I'm just ignoring whatever I want. You can play with your 9th Ed. rules, but against me I get to use my 8th Ed. rules because I just don't like 9th Ed. rules. That's right. I'm refusing to acknowledge 9th Ed. exists, even if you do. And if you want to play 9th Ed., I'm going to say that you're ruining my fun and you are a bad person, because I want to play 8th Ed., not 9th Ed.

    That's a big problem.

    The second problem is;

    Hey, would you like to read my three-page backstory about Christmas-themed Orks that breaks canon in multiple areas?

    Not really. I'm not saying you can't write it. I'm just saying I wont read it...And if you make me read it, I'm going to have a lot of questions about the parts where you break canon that you probably wont be able to answer.
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  2. - Top - End - #512
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    Those would definitely be problems, if anyone in the thread had expressed anything remotely like that. I'm not sure where you got the impression anyone did though. They seem more like... paranoid fantasies of being harassed by conveniently idiotic foils.

    Warboss Sandy Klawz and the Lost Primarch Marina are equally 'non-canon'. No-one is going to Clockwork Orange you into sitting down and reading their fan-fiction in either case. So why is only one 'splitting the community'?

    Even putting aside the idea of what kind of cartoon weirdo would 'make you read' their army's backstory...

    And if you make me read it, I'm going to have a lot of questions about the parts where you break canon that you probably wont be able to answer.
    There is only one question, and you already got the most complete answer possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear
    And you're going to ignore all of it?
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  3. - Top - End - #513
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    Quote Originally Posted by LCP View Post
    Those would definitely be problems, if anyone in the thread had expressed anything remotely like that.
    I don't like current fluff.
    I am ignoring current fluff.
    Anyone who doesn't like my story [that ignores current fluff] must be a 'bad person' and I don't care what they have to say anyway.

    Absolutely was said. To which I responded.

    You then gave a gaming example, to which I responded:

    I don't like current rules.
    I'll just ignore current rules.
    Anyone who does like current rules is harming my fun 'cause I can't play the game I want to play.

    Seems a fair comparison.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; Yesterday at 09:31 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #514
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Hey, would you like to read my three-page backstory about Christmas-themed Orks that breaks canon in multiple areas?

    Not really. I'm not saying you can't write it. I'm just saying I wont read it...And if you make me read it, I'm going to have a lot of questions about the parts where you break canon that you probably wont be able to answer.
    I mean, that would be a problem for me. Not that I'm forcing you to read anything, but I usually have a ten minute chat with my opponent before the game (often while setting up) where we explain our armies (and their backstories), point out who our commanders are (and their backstories), and any cool and unusual models we have (and their backstories). Then we hash out where and why we are fighting. If my opponent says "I don't care, let's just play", it's probably not going to be a game I want to be in.

    Edit: also using model rules from older editions is often completely fine in the club I usually go to, if they are halfway compatible. I.e. bringing your fifth edition codex to a sixth edition game, even if you got an update, because you didn't like that update. Or just saying "I'm playing named character X, but he didn't get rules in this edition, so I'm using his rules from last edition." Perfectly fine.
    Last edited by Eldan; Yesterday at 09:36 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #515
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Anyone who doesn't like my story [that ignores current fluff] must be a 'bad person' and I don't care what they have to say anyway.

    Absolutely was said. To which I responded.
    Nobody on the last page called anyone a bad person. I'm pretty sure if you want to quote whatever it was that you interpreted as an attack you will be able to get the same user who posted it to confirm.

    People expressed critical opinions of the fiction they wanted/were choosing to ignore. If you feel so tied to that fiction that you take a criticism of it as a criticism of you... that's your lookout. My favourite film is Jurassic Park, but I don't mind if other people don't like it.

    You then gave a gaming example, to which I responded:

    I don't like current rules.
    I'll just ignore current rules.
    Anyone who does like current rules is harming my fun 'cause I can't play the game I want to play.

    Seems a fair comparison.
    It's a mad comparison. You know it's mad, please don't waste mine or others' time pretending you don't.
    Last edited by LCP; Yesterday at 09:40 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #516
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    It's not that mad a comparison. We do that all the time. We even allow variatn equipment and light homebrew. (I.e. I have a Skaven assassin model with two pistols, because the model is awesome, then that model is going to have two pistols even if that's not allowed in the rules, and we're going to agree on a point value we both think is fair.)
    Last edited by Eldan; Yesterday at 09:37 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #517
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    But you agree on your variations. You don't turn up with the expectation of unilaterally playing by different rules.
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    The Lord of Lost Heart
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    WFRP 2E - The Bloody Crown
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  8. - Top - End - #518
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    Oh, yeah, sure. Hence the pre-game discussion. And the shop owner or any mutually agreeable resident neckbeard from the painting table for arbitration, if necessary.
    Last edited by Eldan; Yesterday at 09:39 AM.
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  9. - Top - End - #519
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    Quote Originally Posted by LCP View Post
    But you agree on your variations. You don't turn up with the expectation of unilaterally playing by different rules.
    Can we talk about Alpharius?
    He's dead. Dorn killed him. There's nothing to talk about.
    No in my variation it was another trick by Alpharius and he's still alive.
    I'm pretty sure that undercuts the drama, and kind of renders the scene meaningless if Dorn didn't actually do anything. That's dumb.
    No but I want Alpharius alive, so he is. Alpha Legion are my favourite.
    But that's not what happened.
    I said. Alpharius is my favourite.
    Okay, well I can't help you with your weird fanfic.
    Why are you ruining this for me!?
    You know Omegon? Is that who you're talking about? He's still around. And I guess he's Alpharius, right?
    No, that was a stupid idea. I don't like that idea. There's only one Alpharius, and always was.
    Okay. You don't want to talk about Alpharius. You want to talk about your made-up version that actually doesn't exist. I can't help you.
    You have ruined my fun and I'm gonna tell everyone you're a big poopy head who likes poop.

    That's basically a conversation that's happened. Now replace [Alpharius doing something he didn't do], with anything you want.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; Yesterday at 09:54 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #520
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Can we talk about Alpharius?
    He's dead. Dorn killed him. There's nothing to talk about.
    No in my variation it was another trick by Alpharius and he's still alive.
    I'm pretty sure that undercuts the drama, and kind of renders the scene meaningless if Dorn didn't actually do anything. That's dumb.
    No but I want Alpharius alive, so he is. Alpha Legion are my favourite.
    But that's not what happened.
    I said. Alpharius is my favourite.
    Okay, well I can't help you with your weird fanfic.
    Why are you ruining this for me!?
    You know Omegon? Is that who you're talking about? He's still around. And I guess he's Alpharius, right?
    No, that was a stupid idea. I don't like that idea. There's only one Alpharius, and always was.
    Okay. You don't want to talk about Alpharius. You want to talk about your made-up version that actually doesn't exist. I can't help you.
    You have ruined my fun and I'm gonna tell everyone you're a big poopy head who likes poop.

    That's basically a conversation that's happened. Now replace [Alpharius doing something he didn't do], with anything you want.
    Well, you forgot where NONE of this exists so ultimately, does not matter in the slightest.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    I think Cheesegear's position (and I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong) is:

    You want to play with an army that completely violates canon? As long as we use the same rules, Great! Let's play!

    You want to talk about your non-canon army's background? Well, it doesn't fit with canon, but you do you. But don't expect me to try to help you fit it into existing canon.


    I (Lord Torath) personally prefer to stick with my 2E Canon. Where Leman Russ both mutters about his life's breath being nearly spent, and also charges off into obscurity to Fight Chaos!
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    So everything Cheesegear said about the missing Primarchs is 'true', in so far as that is what has been written in the books. It's also 'false', because its reported by people who don't know what happened, or only saw part of it from their own limited perspective.
    How's that quote go? "Everything is canon, not everything is correct", or something along those lines
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    How's that quote go? "Everything is canon, not everything is correct", or something along those lines
    Everything is canon, not everything is true, yes.

    I highly doubt for example that Arbites Judges actually spends centuries deliberating a trial and pouring over contradictory tomes of information to find a verdict when their descendants are now alive. No one has that kind of time. Not even even the dumbest person alive, because they'd be too impatient and have other things to do.

    Far more more logical to assume that the Arbites Judges are jerks who simply put the case being considered into a section labeled "delayed punishment" then wait. Then they can just pull one of the files out from this section, check to see if the criminal has grown into a bunch of descendants then simply declare they're all sent to the Penal legions to increase imperial guard recruitment when needed. this isn't actually legal, but any arbites who thinks the Imperium operates on actual justice or any law and order beyond the barbarism of force is probably one of the naive ones who just got recruited.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

    Speaking of novels, Humble Bundle has a 40k audiobook bundle going on right now. Don't forget to adjust the donation ratio if you care about the charity; GW is taking a much larger proportion of the default than normal. (They wanted only $1.25 of my $25 to go to the charity.)
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