Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLIII: "This Is A New LoW For Us All"

[9mm]

I'd say AoS got away from the silly rules but Battlescroll: The Hunt still exists.

[Brookshw]

Gotta say, $300 for Ash Wastes seems so absurd, I'm continuously amazed at GW.

[Blackhawk748]

Gotta say, $300 for Ash Wastes seems so absurd, I'm continuously amazed at GW.

...good lord.

Whats all in it?

[Wraith]

...good lord.

Whats all in it?

26 plastic miniatures, each supplied with the appropriate Citadel bases:
– 12 House Orlock models, including two Outrider Quads
– 14 Ash Waste Nomads, including four Dustback Helamites

– An array of modular Ash Wastes terrain including:
- 2x Ash Wastes Hab Building
- 1x Large Platform
- 2x Small Platform
- 5x Walkways
– Double-sided gaming mat
– All of the dice, tokens, cards, and templates needed to play
– Rules for the weapons and fighters included in the box

So the minis for the two factions are roughly equivalent to two Combat Patrols in size and price ($150 each) and then the two small buildings, a couple of ramps, the reversible mats, dice, tokens and books are "free". When you add it up like that it almost seems like sort-of reasonable value, and then you have to ask: What in God's name are we doing paying $150 for a Combat Patrol of 10 guys and a vehicle/walker?

[Blackhawk748]

So the minis for the two factions are roughly equivalent to two Combat Patrols in size and price ($150 each) and then the two small buildings, a couple of ramps, the reversible mats, dice, tokens and books are "free". When you add it up like that it almost seems like sort-of reasonable value, and then you have to ask: What in God's name are we doing paying $150 for a Combat Patrol of 10 guys and a vehicle/walker?

No, no, no. You. I don't pay 150 bucks for 10 dudes and a four wheeler.

I pay 30 dollars for like 20 Romans and then another 10 bucks for guns and kitbash like a sensible person.

[Brookshw]

and then you have to ask: What in God's name are we doing paying $150 for a Combat Patrol of 10 guys and a vehicle/walker?

What indeed. I bought $500 worth of gift cards from my local gaming store in the early days of Covid when everything was shut down, originally I was thinking of using them on Old World, but the way GW is going I may just give that idea up and go 9th age or something else entirely.

[Wraith]

The Squats arrive on Necromunda, giving us the first look at a League of Votann squad.

Well... Kind of. In the lore, the Ironhead Prospectors aren't a part of the Leagues, they're refugees who broke off and landed within the Imperium, on Necromunda. Still, they look similar enough to the first Leaguer that was revealed that we can probably make a decent assumption on what the rest will look like from it. A sort of "Space Marine armour with a mix of Space Marine and Genestealer Cult weapons", kind of thing. There's a joke on Reddit where any mention of the mini's is met with a cry of "Rock and stone!" but every time I see something for these guys I'm less and less sure that it's a joke and not just a literal description.

Necromunda being their first true appearance both does and does not make sense, to me - the first Squat in 25 years was a Necromunda Bounty Hunter after all, but with the Ash Waste nomads also due out this weekend it seems like a very crowded schedule for the game that so far has only proved reasonably popular. A Kill Team can't be far behind, I think, but I'm mildly surprised that they didn't show up there first.

[9mm]

There's a joke on Reddit where any mention of the mini's is met with a cry of "Rock and stone!" but every time I see something for these guys I'm less and less sure that it's a joke and not just a literal description.

Gonna be honest, the only time I've ever seen sci-fi space dwarves that didn't look like Deep Rock Galactic and the like was the original Gay Leather Bar Biker Gangs of the original Squats.

Meanwhile I stare at the 30k reveals and wonder if being slightly smaller would bother me to much to make a chaos 40k army with that stuff.

[LeSwordfish]

I love the look of the 30k reveal, definitely getting the big box and some heavy weapons. I'm very hopeful for more plastic models in future, especially breachers and the Predator.

[druid91]

The Squats arrive on Necromunda, giving us the first look at a League of Votann squad.

Well... Kind of. In the lore, the Ironhead Prospectors aren't a part of the Leagues, they're refugees who broke off and landed within the Imperium, on Necromunda. Still, they look similar enough to the first Leaguer that was revealed that we can probably make a decent assumption on what the rest will look like from it. A sort of "Space Marine armour with a mix of Space Marine and Genestealer Cult weapons", kind of thing. There's a joke on Reddit where any mention of the mini's is met with a cry of "Rock and stone!" but every time I see something for these guys I'm less and less sure that it's a joke and not just a literal description.

Necromunda being their first true appearance both does and does not make sense, to me - the first Squat in 25 years was a Necromunda Bounty Hunter after all, but with the Ash Waste nomads also due out this weekend it seems like a very crowded schedule for the game that so far has only proved reasonably popular. A Kill Team can't be far behind, I think, but I'm mildly surprised that they didn't show up there first.

I dunno about your groups.... but Necromunda is actually more popular than 40k among my friend group.

[Wraith]

Gonna be honest, the only time I've ever seen sci-fi space dwarves that didn't look like Deep Rock Galactic and the like was the original Gay Leather Bar Biker Gangs of the original Squats.

True... But isn't that all the more reason to imagine something - anything - else, from the company that renamed Orcs into Orruks and Elves into Aelves so that they'd be easier to copyright?

Make them obsessed with energy shields instead of bulky physical armour, or make their cultural weapon into scythes or double-ended swords instead of axes and mining stuff, or something? Or make them the same but give with cossack hats, something a bit more distinctive?

Anything that means they're not tripping over Deep Rock or, more to the point, something like Mantic Games' Forge Fathers. Just seems like something easily avoided, and out of character for how careful GW have been about such things in the last few years.

[Blackhawk748]

Anything that means they're not tripping over Deep Rock or, more to the point, something like Mantic Games' Forge Fathers. Just seems like something easily avoided, and out of character for how careful GW have been about such things in the last few years.

I really do love how the Forge Fathers look. They always looked super Dwarfy and not just short Space marines. Lovely ornate armor, big faces on things. BEARDS. Lots of hammers.

Good stuff.

[Artanis]

True... But isn't that all the more reason to imagine something - anything - else, from the company that renamed Orcs into Orruks and Elves into Aelves so that they'd be easier to copyright?

Make them obsessed with energy shields instead of bulky physical armour, or make their cultural weapon into scythes or double-ended swords instead of axes and mining stuff, or something? Or make them the same but give with cossack hats, something a bit more distinctive?

Anything that means they're not tripping over Deep Rock or, more to the point, something like Mantic Games' Forge Fathers. Just seems like something easily avoided, and out of character for how careful GW have been about such things in the last few years.

I dunno. I mean Orruks and Aelves are still blatantly just Orks and Elves. Making them the exact same thing with a slightly different name seems par for the course when it comes to GW.

[hamishspence]

Make them obsessed with energy shields instead of bulky physical armour, or make their cultural weapon into scythes or double-ended swords instead of axes and mining stuff, or something? Or make them the same but give with cossack hats, something a bit more distinctive?

Eyewear was a Squat thing, and the Necromundan guys have it.

Tricycles were a thing too - and the Leagues of Votann faction still have them, but in hover form:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...-their-trikes/


One thing the fully enclosed version of the helmets of the Necromundan guys makes me think of - those of the Inceptors - the Primaris Marines with jump-packs, massive helmets over their inner helmets, and tiny vision slits. The Necromundan guys' helmets, in a couple of cases, have a similar vision slit and the helmet being set deeply into high-collared armour, rotating to the left or right like a turret. Though the rest all have the face exposed.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB...Inceptors-2020

[Cheesegear]

Making them the exact same thing with a slightly different name seems par for the course when it comes to GW.

If you were to google Squats, you'll get the following:
- One of the most important gym exercises
- Men in tracksuits doing a pose
- Something to do with toilets
- Maybe you'll get an autocomplete for squatter's rights.

So yes of course the name needs to be changed to Votann. You need the feed SEO algorithm.

[Wraith]

I dunno about your groups.... but Necromunda is actually more popular than 40k among my friend group.

It's weird; in my area, Necromunda is a universally liked game, but no one plays it. Not just for Obvious Reasons™ too - we gave it a try, agreed it was much better than Kill Team and way less hassle and expense than 40k... And that was it, we just didn't bother again.

I'd love it if Ash Wastes peaked some interest and we tried it again, but ~£150 GBP is a hefty buy-in for something that might only get played once, again.

I really do love how the Forge Fathers look. They always looked super Dwarfy and not just short Space marines. Lovely Ornate armor, big faces on things. BEARDS. Lots of hammers.

They do look great. If anything, I prefer them to what we have seen of the Leagues who look very plain so far. I kind of think they look more like Tau than Astartes, all smooth plates and rounded curves - it's not bad in any way, I was just hoping for different.

I dunno. I mean Orruks and Aelves are still blatantly just Orks and Elves. Making them the exact same thing with a slightly different name seems par for the course when it comes to GW.

A fair point. "The minimum amount of effort needed" is more like the GW we know, I suppose. Definitely a missed opportunity to have done something impressive and iconic, though.

[Eldan]

Yeah. I wouldn't have been surprised if they had been called Skwotts or Deworves.

[Renegade Paladin]

I wish the shop would let me organize the leagues they want to do. They're back to the stupid format they used the first time they organized one without me (which they did without me because I refused to do it in the middle of a bloody plague).

Each month the maximum power level will go up until we hit 50 power level.
It will not cost anything to add new units to your army.
All existing units must remain in your list but can be modified with requisition points.
June = 25 power
July = 30 power
August = 35 power
September = 35 power
October = 40 power
November = 45 power
December = 50 power

Most armies do not scale in neat 5PL increments and if you can't take units out of the list to make room they'll be stuck. Also, this is not Crusade; it's an escalation league.

Edit: Also since "It will not cost anything to add new units to your army," I'm half tempted to just add in all my Baneblades in month 2 since it doesn't cost anything and their Power Rating is something.

[Wraith]

This looks less like an escalation league, and more like a "start with a small army and then consistently buy 1 new box/blister every month because that's the only way you'll be sure it fits into the arbitrary limit".

Otherwise, what else can you do? Start in June and then spend 3 months playing at a handicap before you can add in a Predator or something? What happens if you're playing a list and find out that its hard-countered by everyone else, what do you do - just stop playing and drop out of the league since you can't make revisions? Sounds like lots of fun...

[Renegade Paladin]

This looks less like an escalation league, and more like a "start with a small army and then consistently buy 1 new box/blister every month because that's the only way you'll be sure it fits into the arbitrary limit".

Otherwise, what else can you do? Start in June and then spend 3 months playing at a handicap before you can add in a Predator or something? What happens if you're playing a list and find out that its hard-countered by everyone else, what do you do - just stop playing and drop out of the league since you can't make revisions? Sounds like lots of fun...

I am going to tell them this - for the second time in as many years - once. The first time I tried to convince the shop owner (who almost certainly hasn't read the Crusade rules) and the rookie who took it upon himself to organize (who clearly does not understand the Crusade rules, or at least the concept of the Order of Battle as distinct from the army list for a game) that this format was a bad idea and accomplished nothing but a headache. This is the third league they've run; the second time they didn't use this format because, I thought, they'd learned the lesson the hard way. I suppose they didn't. So they get one warning.

In other news, Goonhammer has acquired the ITC Battles app and 40kstats.com.

[Cheesegear]

This looks less like an escalation league, and more like a "start with a small army and then consistently buy 1 new box/blister every month because that's the only way you'll be sure it fits into the arbitrary limit".

It's worse. It's buy a specific box/blister every month. As a Space Marine player, if you told me I could only increase my army by 5 PL every month you're basically telling me that I can only commit to MSU spam, I can't take any MSU that's good, and almost all Vehicles are off-limits to me.

[Remember, increasing the model-count by 1, doubles the PR, but doesn't double points]

[HQs don't count]

Intercessors
Assault Intercessors
Incursors
Tactical Squad

Company Champion
Scouts
P. Apothecary
Apothecary
Company Ancient
P. Ancient
B. Ancient
Bladeguard Veterans
Company Veterans
Judiciar
Reivers

Assault Squad
Invader (singular)
Bike Squad
Scout Bikes
Attack Bikes
Suppressors

Land Speeders (except Typhoons)
Eliminators

[Zero Heavy Support]

Rhino
Drop Pod

Basically anything above 5 PR has to be front-loaded into the initial 25 PR or you can't ever get it, or rather, it's inefficient to get it. However, the intent, I believe, of this sort of stuff is to get people to start new armies (not just take their existing Baneblade and call it a day). But people starting new armies don't frontload their collection with Terminators and Aggressors...But in this format, if they don't do that, they can't ever get Terminators.

It's like; Who has the most efficient building blocks of 5 PL at a time?

[Artanis]

Edit: Also since "It will not cost anything to add new units to your army," I'm half tempted to just add in all my Baneblades in month 2 since it doesn't cost anything and their Power Rating is something.

DOO EET.

"I warned you this was a bad idea. Guess I'll have to *show* you idiots why it's a bad idea."

[9mm]

It's like; Who has the most efficient building blocks of 5 PL at a time?

Clearly it is Knights, have one at the start, add the second at the end!

[Renegade Paladin]

It's like; Who has the most efficient building blocks of 5 PL at a time?

That'd be infantry Guard. 5PL is an infantry squad and a support character, or a squad of Bullgryns. I suspect not coincidentally, the organizer of this who came up with the format (which, to be abundantly clear, is not me) primarily plays Guard.

Note that you can still use the Crusade requisition that lets you make a squad bigger rather than necessarily taking a new unit.

[Mystic Muse]

Does anyone here have recommendations on a metallic white paint, or otherwise making white not such a pain to use as a base color?

I know Duncan has a video on Crisp White, but GW doesn't have a Celestra Grey spray.

[9mm]

Does anyone here have recommendations on a metallic white paint, or otherwise making white not such a pain to use as a base color?

I know Duncan has a video on Crisp White, but GW doesn't have a Celestra Grey spray.

don't know about metalallic but I use Valaho Game Color Dead White as my main white.

[Brookshw]

don't know about metalallic but I use Valaho Game Color Dead White as my main white.

How well does it hold up in the container? I.e., is it chunky in a few months?

[9mm]

How well does it hold up in the container? I.e., is it chunky in a few months?

its a proper dropper bottle haven't had any issues with the bottle I bought in 2019.

[Hootman]

Anyone know what is terrible in Grey Knight circles currently? I've been trying to work on old small projects, and I found my tiny number of GKs and figured they'd be easy enough to finish and get some satisfaction from.

Spoiler

Show

Terminator Librarian (Staff)
Old Metal Castellan Crowe (could be any cool guy with a sword)

5 Terminators (3 Thunderhammers [Daemonhammers?], 2 Swords, 1 with Heavy Flamer [Incinerator?])

10 Teleport Marines (2 Hammers, 2 Rotary Guns, mostly paired Falchions)

9 Regular/Purifier Marines (1 Halberd, 2 Heavy Flamers, 2 not!Heavy Bolters, mostly paired Falchions)
(Where did the 10th guy go?)

Rhino Chassis (TL Lascannon)

Rhino Chassis (TL Lascannon)

Venerable Dread (TL Lascannon, Missile Launcher)

Dreadnought (Fist and Multimelta)

Dreadnought (same)

And I'm pretty sure I have one of those Baby Carrier things somewhere, but cannot currently find it.

Is there anything obvious I'm missing from my collection that GKs really need? Anything I really shouldn't be using, or need to switch the equipment on? Is there a meaningful difference between Termies and Paladins, such that I might not want to use them interchangeably based solely on which stat block is more worth the points? Can you still use Inquisitors, and are they alright? I have a fairly cool Inquisitor guy I kit-bashed with epaulets, a feathered hat, and a Powerfist--could use a suggestion for what's in his other hand--but I don't know if he can still hang out with the GKs without breaking their subfaction combo bonuses or whatever.

[hamishspence]

The rules for Agents of the Imperium (including Inquisitors), in War Zone Octarius Book 1: Rising Tide, make them include-able (1 per Detachment) without taking up any slots - and without interfering at all with Detachment abilities, or army-wide restrictions (like Chapter Tactics).

You could use your Inquisitor as a regular one, or as a "Kyria Draxus counts-as" (she has a powerfist - but she also has a shuriken catapult and a tiny pet dragon).

Regular Inquisitors don't wear power armour though - they wear carapace armour. Only some of the special characters get Power Armour or better (the rules for Terminator Armour inquisitors seem to be gone).