New One Piece Thread

[Rater202]

Would a Fishman Zoan be a model of the Human Human fruit or would t be a separate line of fruit with models based on specific varieties of fishman.

[Dragonus45]

Would a Fishman Zoan be a model of the Human Human fruit or would t be a separate line of fruit with models based on specific varieties of fishman.

Probably it's own fruit, although I feel like there might be complication and confusion with zoan of actual fish as well. If a Fishman Fishman fruit even exists.

[Razade]

So.... You're arguing that to have a thing, put it on your property, and surround it with your people is not to have it in your possession?

Yeah we must be speaking different languages. You don't have to lock something up in a dungeon forever to possess it. If you buy a car and it gets stolen on the way home, it was still your possession. In fact, you can't steal something from someone unless they possess it. That's what stealing means.

Fine, then under your definition they did possess it and Oda isn't using your usage.

[ben-zayb]

Probably it's own fruit, although I feel like there might be complication and confusion with zoan of actual fish as well. If a Fishman Fishman fruit even exists.

Fishmen and other races (merfolk, giants, dwarves, minks, etc.) are different enough in physiology and appearance to humans that they may work better as being their own DFs. Then again, dinosaurs are all lumped under the same ancient dragon dragon fruit regardless of how taxonomically apart they are from each other.

[Dragonus45]

Fishmen and other races (merfolk, giants, dwarves, minks, etc.) are different enough in physiology and appearance to humans that they may work better as being their own DFs. Then again, dinosaurs are all lumped under the same ancient dragon dragon fruit regardless of how taxonomically apart they are from each other.

Sure but since we have seen several variations of Human fruits but nothing for any of these other races I'm starting to wonder if they even have specific fruits or not. Odds say yes, but I still wonder. Although my thoughts about it tie into my being personally convinced that everyone is from space and all the different peoples of the world are totally different alien species and that's a rabbit hole no one has time for I guess.

[Devonix]

Sure but since we have seen several variations of Human fruits but nothing for any of these other races I'm starting to wonder if they even have specific fruits or not. Odds say yes, but I still wonder. Although my thoughts about it tie into my being personally convinced that everyone is from space and all the different peoples of the world are totally different alien species and that's a rabbit hole no one has time for I guess.

Well not everyone is from space but we know Shandians for a fact of at least two races in one piece that came to the planet from another world in deep space and that Space travel is still very much a thing going on in the series.

It's highly possible that Fishmen are legit the only species that actually evolved on the planet.

[Razade]

Well not everyone is from space but we know Shandians for a fact of at least two races in one piece that came to the planet from another world in deep space and that Space travel is still very much a thing going on in the series.

It's highly possible that Fishmen are legit the only species that actually evolved on the planet.

Space can't be that deep, Enel got there fairly quickly on a ship that didn't even have rockets to power it. We also know that humans existed on the planet before the Shandians came down as well. Shandora was prosperous 1,100 years before the current story, knocked into Skypia in 1227. The Ancient Kingdom, presumably made up of humans among other races, and Shandora were in contact before the Void Century.

[Anteros]

I'd honestly be more surprised if hard rules existed for devil fruits than not. It's always very much struck me as a plot convenience for whatever ability Oda wants a specific character to have.

[Devonix]

Space can't be that deep, Enel got there fairly quickly on a ship that didn't even have rockets to power it. We also know that humans existed on the planet before the Shandians came down as well. Shandora was prosperous 1,100 years before the current story, knocked into Skypia in 1227. The Ancient Kingdom, presumably made up of humans among other races, and Shandora were in contact before the Void Century.

All that means is that the moon is incredibly close to the planet. And going by the insane weather patterns. That makes perfect sense. We see other races on other space ships as well. It looks like that one ninja guy working for kaido is part of an alien race given the flag we see on the space pirates.

[Razade]

Yeah, the Space Pirates are certainly an interesting little addition. It's not supported anywhere but...all the Space Pirates are animal humans with the exception of maybe one. Hard to tell with the strange muppet looking one. Maybe they're just Space Minks? Seamars is an fox-thing.

[Dragonus45]

The I’ve had this wild theory for ages that the Name of the government that got an entire island scoured clean of life and was going to constrain the phrase Interstellar or perhaps Galactic something or other and the space pirates and the reveals about floating colony ships in the moon and all that other weirdness have only made me more and more certain as they come.

[Razade]

Chapter 1045's out as scans

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Seriously. This is for early scans.

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So yeah...Luffy's still not doing so hot. Gear 5 takes a lot of out of him but his drum heart beat is something special that he can cause to happen now. Gear 5 apparently makes Luffy white and it's a combination of Conqueror's Infusion, Armament Coating and the Fruit itself. It also seems to make Luffy pure white. His clothing, the flaming hair is white, all of it.

Kaido seems to be catching on as well, saying the transformations are more akin to a Zoan. Luffy can also make other people rubber, which considering Law and Kid's awakening makes a lot of sense. Luffy's got a few new attacks. One of them makes him a giant. It's pretty awesome.

The fight is pretty funny, I imagine the people who are unhappy with the new form are going to be even more unhappy with the very cartoon-y drawings but it's clear Oda's having fun and a few of them got me to chuckle.

[Anteros]

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Well, I totally called the knock of Naruto style in addition to the knock off super saiyan hair. Now we just need him to pull out a hollow mask and we'll be completely sure Oda is out of ideas.

I don't care necessarily about the cartoonish nature of the fight. I do care about the way that the story now lacks all tension. I do feel like this arc has well and truly jumped the shark (jumped the dragon?). I agree that Oda is having fun. That doesn't make the writing good though.

[Brackenlord]

I liked this chapter better than the last, Oda got creative with the rubber hose powers and I can't wait to binge this whole arc when it's done. I wonder if turning white is also a reference to old black and white cartoons, just an artisitic choice or relevant in-universe.

The old exhausted Luffy face sold me back the tension of this fight and the toll on his body. Reducing lifespan is kinda of a non-cost for protagonists, since it's only really relevant in the epilogue, but I'm a fan of the trope :shrug:.

[hungrycrow]

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The old exhausted Luffy face sold me back the tension of this fight and the toll on his body. Reducing lifespan is kinda of a non-cost for protagonists, since it's only really relevant in the epilogue, but I'm a fan of the trope :shrug:.

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Has any story ever let the lifespan shortening forbidden technique have actual consequences in an epilogue?

Luffy's other Gears have had real consequences in the form of time limits and being temporarily unable to fight afterwards. That seems to be the case here, but I don't think there will be much tension until we know how much he can rely on this drum heartbeat thing.

[Dragonus45]

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Has any story ever let the lifespan shortening forbidden technique have actual consequences in an epilogue?

Luffy's other Gears have had real consequences in the form of time limits and being temporarily unable to fight afterwards. That seems to be the case here, but I don't think there will be much tension until we know how much he can rely on this drum heartbeat thing.

The whole thing about how Luffy was shortening his lifespan with Gear 2 may not even specifically apply anymore since that whole idea was under the assumption he was with a totally different kind of fruit. None of the rest of them have had any mention of being cast from lifespan.

[lord_khaine]

That doesn't make the writing good though.

Quite agree.

[Dragonus45]

Quite agree.

The correlation between the two is pretty high though. Take the last two chapters for example. Peak One Piece, Oda at his best, the triumphant culmination of thousands of chapters of story. Not sure what y'all are reading.

[Taevyr]

The correlation between the two is pretty high though. Take the last two chapters for example. Peak One Piece, Oda at his best, the triumphant culmination of thousands of chapters of story. Not sure what y'all are reading.

Exactly. Oda's probably been wanting to draw these techniques/pages for years and it clearly shows in how unabashedly fun the last few chapters have been. It's great.

[lord_khaine]

The correlation between the two is pretty high though. Take the last two chapters for example. Peak One Piece, Oda at his best, the triumphant culmination of thousands of chapters of story. Not sure what y'all are reading.

See i would claim the correlation is insignificant to non-existing.
Lot of people enjoys what they write. That does not mean its worth reading.

The disagreement over the last couple chapters being a good example.

[Dragonus45]

See i would claim the correlation is insignificant to non-existing.
Lot of people enjoys what they write. That does not mean its worth reading.

The disagreement over the last couple chapters being a good example.

Yea when someone is having actual real fun doing their job and not just going through the motions you can tell and it really does make a difference in the end quality. Oda has never felt like he was phoning it in, but this twist right here and the following fight have radiated joy off the page. Regardless, most of the disagreement I have seen over the last two chapters have been a mix of people overreacting and extrapolating a ton of random stuff from frankly too little information to go on and zero trust in the author despite making this far into Oda's story, and the "this isn't what I would do were I writing the story therefore it is bad" crowd who constantly confuse quality with meeting their personal expectations of what a story that isn't theirs should be.

[Brackenlord]

Yea when someone is having actual real fun doing their job and not just going through the motions you can tell and it really does make a difference in the end quality.

True, but that's not enough to state it's a quality product. People can love what they're doing even when they're terrible at it, not saying Oda sensei isn't a great mangaka, just the tought process seems flawed.

Oda has never felt like he was phoning it in, but this twist right here and the following fight have radiated joy off the page. Regardless, most of the disagreement I have seen over the last two chapters have been a mix of people overreacting and extrapolating a ton of random stuff from frankly too little information to go on and zero trust in the author despite making this far into Oda's story, and the "this isn't what I would do were I writing the story therefore it is bad" crowd who constantly confuse quality with meeting their personal expectations of what a story that isn't theirs should be.

I wouldn't dismiss people's opinions as overreactions, the fact is that those chapters weren't universally liked, the praise is also a extrapolation of the hype since we've finally wrapped up the ongoing action scenes and we'll get the actual fight.

I'm betting that even when we look back at this amazing arc, 1044 will still be the Deus ex Machina chapter.

[Dragonus45]

True, but that's not enough to state it's a quality product. People can love what they're doing even when they're terrible at it, not saying Oda sensei isn't a great mangaka, just the tought process seems flawed.

That would be why I said correlation, not causation.

I wouldn't dismiss people's opinions as overreactions, the fact is that those chapters weren't universally liked, the praise is also a extrapolation of the hype since we've finally wrapped up the ongoing action scenes and we'll get the actual fight.

I would, in fact I am doing so right now. 90% of discourse I have read about this chapter has been wild overreaction.

I'm betting that even when we look back at this amazing arc, 1044 will still be the Deus ex Machina chapter.

That term has something of a specific meaning and I'm not certain how it applies here, since this was foreshadowed well enough people had guessed parts of it well ahead of time, and someone even guessed the entire plot twist on reddit months before it happened and it hasn't single handedly set right the entire narrative conflict of Kaido vs Luffy punching each other.

[lord_khaine]

Yea when someone is having actual real fun doing their job and not just going through the motions you can tell and it really does make a difference in the end quality. Oda has never felt like he was phoning it in, but this twist right here and the following fight have radiated joy off the page.

It certainly radiates a pretty sharp and jarring change in tone.
But i cant see much else radiation.

I would, in fact I am doing so right now. 90% of discourse I have read about this chapter has been wild overreaction.

Well could also dismiss your praise of the chapters as wild overreaction with basically the same reasoning.

That term has something of a specific meaning and I'm not certain how it applies here, since this was foreshadowed well enough people had guessed parts of it well ahead of time, and someone even guessed the entire plot twist on reddit months before it happened and it hasn't single handedly set right the entire narrative conflict of Kaido vs Luffy punching each other.

Well the original meaning hardly applies. Due to Zeus not being around.

But short of that, ressurection due to unexpected super power comes pretty close to an act of god.

And with the sheer amount of insane speculation that are. Then i dont give much for this being guessed.
We are close to having a litteral case of infinite typewriting monkeys.

If there are any actual foreshadowing of "Luffy actually got a zoan type fruit" then i would like to see it.
Well.. the recovery meanwhile is then less special. Since we were already informed in Impel Down tha awakend zoan has absurd recuperation abilities.

[Traab]

Yeah, someone guessing it doesnt mean much when there are hundreds of thousands of people making guesses constantly. Especially when so much can be narrowed down to the type of anime this is. A shonen anime really only has so many paths it can follow, the fine details are what changes. Him unlocking some godly power that will allow him to justifiably face the end series threats smacks heavily of naruto and his progression over the course of a single effing day during the 4th shinobi war. "Ok so this is how powerful I am having taken kyuubis power. Ok so THIS is how powerful we are working together. Ok THIS is how powerful we are when i combine sage mode with demon mode. Ok THIS is how powerful i am now that the 9 beasts all gave me their chakra and old man sage gave me the half a seal to use." That was a really busy day for naruto. Shooting from elite jounin level to post kage level.

[Anteros]

Not to mention that "he's actually Sun Wukong" is a prediction that's been made about literally every protagonist of Eastern media to ever exist. (and probably half of Western media) It being true more often than not is hardly an indication of quality writing. It wasn't good writing when Dragonball or any of the other literally dozens of examples did it either.

Dragonball sorta gets a pass because it was a trendsetter, and no one expects the writing to be good anyway. Other animes doing cheap dragonball rip-offs (seriously, he even has the hair) don't get that benefit.

I also take issue with the fandom (mostly the reddit sub) calling every little thing foreshadowing. Luffy taking a similar pose after transforming to the one that he took while dancing 800 chapters ago isn't foreshadowing. It's a callback. The only actual foreshadowing for this Nika stuff started approximately 25 chapters ago.

The only exception would possibly be the existence of Joy Boy being mentioned at Fishman island, and even that would only count as foreshadowing in the sense that Luffy is a Shonen progaonist, so we all knew it would be him rather than any merit in the writing itself.

[Rater202]

Dragon Ball doesn't get a pass because it's a trendsetter.

It gets a pass because the first chapter flat out says "this is a re-imagining of Journey to The West" right there in the opening narration box.

[Dragonus45]

Not to mention that "he's actually Sun Wukong" is a prediction that's been made about literally every protagonist of Eastern media to ever exist. (and probably half of Western media) It being true more often than not is hardly an indication of quality writing. It wasn't good writing when Dragonball or any of the other literally dozens of examples did it either.

If you think it was some random headshot guess then I can only assume you haven't read the very lengthy and detailed thread in question.

And with the sheer amount of insane speculation that are. Then i dont give much for this being guessed.
We are close to having a litteral case of infinite typewriting monkeys.

If there are any actual foreshadowing of "Luffy actually got a zoan type fruit" then i would like to see it.
Well.. the recovery meanwhile is then less special. Since we were already informed in Impel Down tha awakend zoan has absurd recuperation abilities.

Since apparently I need to share with the class, here. And no Luffy suddenly doesn't become less cool from this because recovery times. Because he wasn't awakened in the past in those fights.

[Anteros]

Non-awakened zoans still have a boost to their physicals. If he'd been presented as a zoan from the start it would be fine. As it is now, it retroactively diminishes his previous achievements. Finding out your protagonist has had a bunch of extra innate power for the last 1,000 chapters that we weren't told about is going to change how those previous chapters are perceived. It just does. There's no way around it.

Edit: Wait....are you seriously linking a theory that came out 7 whole chapters before the dues ex machina? Everyone knew where the story was going by that point. Who's Who and the Gurosei had just got done telling us. His whole post is stuff that happened in the last 20 chapters and then "Enel kinda looks like him at one point" That's not foreshadowing, nor is it impressive that he figured out Luffy's fruit was special after we were explicitly told so.

The fan base was just still in denial about it at that point because it's such terrible writing that no one wanted to believe that's where the story was going, and people were trying to convince themselves it was momo or the dumping girl that ate the deus ex machina fruit. The idea that Luffy would awaken his fruit has been a common and openly mocked theory since the chapters with Who's Who. Now that we're stuck with it people are rationalizing it.

[Dragonus45]

Non-awakened zoans still have a boost to their physicals. If he'd been presented as a zoan from the start it would be fine. As it is now, it retroactively diminishes his previous achievements. Finding out your protagonist has had a bunch of extra innate power for the last 1,000 chapters that we weren't told about is going to change how those previous chapters are perceived. It just does. There's no way around it.

Paramecia fruit users also get super powers. We always knew Luffy had super powers, and we have seen him train and sweat and bleed to win every battle he fought in real time. This doesn't erase all that just because it turned out his fruit was a red raspberry instead of strawberry. It just doesn't. There is no way.

Edit: Wait....are you seriously linking a theory that came out 7 whole chapters before the dues ex machina? Everyone knew where the story was going by that point. Who's Who and the Gurosei had just got done telling us. His whole post is stuff that happened in the last 20 chapters and then "Enel kinda looks like him at one point" That's not foreshadowing, nor is it impressive that he figured out Luffy's fruit was special after we were explicitly told so.

Ah yes the incredibly obvious thing that most of the comments are clearly saying was stupid and wrong at the time because it just couldn't be true. Clearly no one could have figured it out. And after the fact there are a lot of little details like the SMILE fruits that make it clear this idea wasn't just pulled out of a hat either.