New One Piece Thread

[Razade]

Nothing in the last two points have been over anything related to the upcoming chapter.

[Dragonus45]

Nothing in the last two points have been over anything related to the upcoming chapter.

Yea this is just general speculation about future chapters. And I agree Momo needs a win to feel like his coming of age character arc is complete. I think him doing it direct makes the most sense and mirrors when Kaido lifted everything up to begin with.

[Anteros]

More or less liked this chapter.

Spoiler

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It moves the focus a bit away from Luffy, which is a good thing. Plus, it's nice to see the scabbards be relevant again. It makes sense that Raizo would prepare for a fire given his history, and Jinbe definitely needs more moments. His presence as a crew member has felt lacking since he joined.

Not a fan of the bounce house theory. Millions of tons of falling rubber aren't particularly less lethal than millions of tons of falling rock. I know One Piece plays fast and loose with physics, but that one's a bit too out there. At best Luffy would have to turn all the people into rubber too for them to survive, and they'd still be flung all over the place.

[Razade]

Did this elsewhere, figured it'd be cool to see where other people are re: their favorite arcs/how they grade each.

Spoiler: East Blue

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Romance Dawn: 7/10 - The first arc of the series and it starts..fairly goofy. You can tell that One Piece began as a late 90s Shonen series with how its story started. The stakes are low, the comedy is more forward and the characters are prone to overreaction. It was enough to get me interested and as far as Shonen starts, which I've read a lot of, it's one of the stronger ones. It sets up the world, gives a lot of crumbs to future concepts and establishes the dominant personalities of two of the main cast.

Orange Town: 7/10 - Nami and buggy's introduction. Both remain in the "stereotypical shonen roles, it'd be hard to argue that Nami is more than the sneaky thief at this point and her "I hate pirates" bit comes off strong. If I was just doing this blind, I'd certainly have different opinions. Buggy does have some dark moments and tying him to Shanks was a solid move. It set him up as something more dangerous and important but also sort of undervalues how huge the world is given proximity of events. Still, one of the stronger early arcs.

Syrup Village: 4/10 - If the villain and twist weren't so fun this arc would score lower. The characters are all sorts of bland and there's no arc that shows that late 90's Shonen pedigree than Syrup Village. The fact that Merry and Usopp's lady friend and the kids haven't been mentioned or shown up in a cover story or even a panel in almost 800 chapters honestly says it all.

Baraite: 6/10 -We get a lot of setting lore here. It's the first time we learn about the Warlords and see one in action. The stuff with Zoro is huge, Sanji joining the story is great and it's the first fight Luffy has where he doesn't just roflstomp the opposition after the rest of the crew are too beat up to fight. This is also where Nami gets actual character development and hints to the story being something more than a closed arc, gag focused sort of affair with some action thrown in.

Arlong Park: 9/10 - I often recommend people read up to Arlong Park. That it's 100 chapters into the story is something of hurdle aside, to me Arlong Park is where One Piece starts to show what it can really be. It's the template for a lot of the narrative tropes Oda's used ever since. Our expectations of a character are played with and the drama is uncovering why we think what we think is wrong, and a character that might otherwise be unforgivable (Nami) is doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. It explains her hate of Pirates in a justified way and Arlong is a great villain. It's the first combat where things really feel tense, even compared to the previous arc, and the outcome is larger on a world scale than anything previous. It also still blends some of the goofiness we've come to expect in with the serious tones. The "Luffy, help me" and Walk to Arlong Park are iconic moments of the series for a reason.

Loguetown: 6/10 - The cool-down arc that we'll come to expect in Oda's template. Alvida and Buggy returning is a great set up, seeing the cohesion of the crew in trying to protect Luffy feels natural. Introducing the Marine rival for the next long period was also a good move as Smoker establishes himself fairly early on.

The East Blue Saga overall promises a lot and once it gets beyond its somewhat dated origins it shines. Working up to Arlong is a slog though and now that I'm on my third read through, I've skipped most of the chapters to get to the good stuff. I totally get why people are hesitant to start the series, and often drop it. The early chapters haven't aged well compared to a lot of Shonen people are familiar with. It's from another era even if it was on the cusp of the millennium. People take for granted that it was One Piece's shift during Baratie and Arlong that paved the way for the serise they now compare the first 100 chapters to. Without One Piece there wouldn't be MHA or Chainsaw Man. It walked so they could run. Still wouldn't be opposed to a streamlined intro for the characters and important details and getting to Arlong Park sooner.

Spoiler: Alabasta

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Reverse Mountain: 6/10 -This and Whiskey Peak are connective tissue. Reverse sets up a lot of lore, we get a lot of info on the Grand Line and it sets up Brook and other content in the future but it's not a particularly strong arc on its own. Miss Wednesday wasn't planned to be Vivi at this stage and that shows and while it does seem Laboon was intended to be tied to someone, I don't think Brook's full story was really built at this stage. We know Brook was planned, as Oda has a full drawing of the original crew and Brook is in there. We also know that Oda removed some characters in the scan, because Jinbe as in it too but Oda didn't show him until he was officially declared part of the crew.

Whiskey Peak: 6/10 - Another connective tissue arc, showing Baroque Works and how they operate. It's a short arc, we get Vivi involved and the real drama of the Saga begins here.

Little Garden: 6/10 - Little Garden is a tough sell. On one hand, it feels very contained but on the other it's probably the most vital arc of the Saga story wise. Without it we don't get a sick Nami, we get introduced to the Giants, Nico Robin, some of the big names in Baroque Works and some actual growth for Sanji. The tension between the Giants probably could have been skipped or shortened but overall, hard to find issue with this arc.

Drum Island: 7/10 - Drum Island is bigger than people give it credit for. We get our first mention of Ace, Blackbeard, the Will of D and hints that there's a lot more going on with the world than what we know. Chopper joining is big and Wapo is a villain that's fun to hate. Seeing the characters care for one another is another bonus here. Luffy nearly freezing to death for his crew, the lengths they go to cure Nami and Vivi's growth seeing other kingdoms in peril makes it great. We also get our first established mention of Inherited Will, which is a fundamental concept in the series here.

Alabasta: 10/10 - The best arc up to this point. Luffy finally losing a fight, learning about the Void Century and the Super Weapons, all the 1v1 fights and the heartfelt goodbye of Vivi make this arc worth the build up. Smoker showing his "respectable antagonist" role also makes this worthwhile. This is also where we meet Ace for the first time and we establish the deep love and admiration Luffy has for him. Without it, Marineford is lesser. We also get Bon Clay set up here, a major character for arcs to come and establishing that enemies can easily become friends in One Piece.

The Alabasta arc is the second Saga and it uses a lot of the momentum the first one ended on to push through a lot of lore exposition at the start to a pretty bang up end. Losing Vivi feels real, she was a serious member of the party up until the end and even though we get Nico Robin to replace her, the dynamic is reset and even perhaps a little more shaky considering her former status as an antagonist.

Spoiler: Skypiea

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Jaya: 6/10 -The fight against Bellamy and the actual introduction of Blackbeard make this one hard to score lower but I would if it didn't have so much set up. Got nothing else to really comment on it. Not much happens to comment on outside those two things.

Skypiea: 6/10 - I get why a lot of people skip Skypiea. At first it just seems like a massive diversion and a break from the story at large. Knowing, in hindsight, what we know now...it is probably the most important arc for the worldbuilding of One Piece. Enel isn't a bad villain, but his importance pales to the introduction of the Moon civilization he brings about, and of course Roger's journey and the Poniglyphs and Haki. Each read through I've done as the story goes on reveals just how important Skypiea is to the overall world the story takes place in. Even if it's not one of my favorites for the story it tells, it's hard to score lower for me just by how integral it is.

The Skypiea Saga should have been one arc. Everything else I've said is in the arcs themselves.

Spoiler: Water 7

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Long Ring Long Land: 2/10 - I hate this arc. It's the least favorite arc for most of the readership for a reason. I don't care if the Davy Back fight comes back, it won't make this arc better in reterospect. A total waste of time as a connective tissue arc, a total waste of time storywise. Nothing of consequence occurs and the crew enter the arc almost exactly as they left it. We could have had Aokiji show up and give us some hints to Robin's past elsewhere, or even just in the wrap up of Skypiea. I'd rate this a 0 if that one bit wasn't in this arc.

Water 7: 8/10 - After such a terrible arc, anything would be better in comparison. Water 7 establishes the next big drama point with Robin and the loss of the Going Merry, Usopp's "leaving" of the crew adds a lot more stakes to it all. It feels like things really are different for the crew going forward and people were right to wonder if Usopp was actually going to come back at the time. We know now that of course he was but this arc was vital for him as a character. Usopp was, in my opinion, the last holdover of that 90's Shonen veneer the story clung to. He added little to the team, and it's Water 7 where that starts to change. CP9 was a great antagonist team and while we don't get a lot of them until the end of the arc as actual antagonists they come out swinging in a big way. It makes the world feel far more threatening with them in it.

Enies Lobby: 10/10 - A masterpiece of an arc and so many parallels with Wano. It was polarizing for a lot of the same reasons. Many felt Franky was stronger than Zoro and Sanji or would take Sanji's place in the Monster Trio. Lots of people hate Gear 2 and felt that having Gear 3 was too many power ups in a single arc for Luffy. People felt his defeats by Rob made him seem weaker but him bouncing back also made people say the tension was out of the story. Every criticism people made for Enies Lobby has been made in spades with Wano but at the end of the day...Enies Lobby is considered one of the best arcs of the series for a reason. It's our second 1v1 spectacular and "I want to live" from Robin, along with her backstory, hits deep. There's too many things positive to say for Enies lobby for the character limit here but man. What an arc.

Post-Enies Lobby: 7/10 - A well needed cool down from Enies Lobby, we get to meet Garp and learn about Dragon as well as cementing the crew as a legit threat to the world government at large. Coby returning is also a highlight.

The Water 7 Saga is a high mark of the series and probably will be once the series ends. It is one of the most iconic Sagas of the series and while One Piece was popular before Water 7, it's hard to overstate just how vital Water 7 was to the growth, spread and continued support One Piece has had over the years to Enies Lobby's arc alone.

Spoiler: Thriller Bark

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Thriller Bark: 5/10 -I've read Thriller Bark three times now and every time I finish it I feel the same way. What the hell was all that? The story takes a really strange detour in Thriller Bark both tonally and action wise from the previous arcs that there's some mood whiplash. Brook has grown on me but I've never been super fond of him and while it's great to get a tieback with Laboon...meh. The fact that it's its own Saga feels even weirder. The villains are weird (and one of them just a legit sexual assaulter) and Moria is a seriously weak and lame villain after Lucci.

Spoiler: The Summit War

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Sabaody Archipelago: 7/10 -Meeting the Supernova, the fight at the Slave Auction House, Rayleigh and of course...the team getting their first party wipe. I envy people new to the series because I'll never have the same reaction to Kuma and Kizaru wiping the team again. A crushing moment in the story but a Split the Party done right.

Amazon Lily: 6/10 -A short detour but a needed one. We've had the team together for so long it's odd to not have them around. Boa and her sisters are redeemed a bit too quickly imho but the arc had some levity that was needed after such a dark turn of events in the former arc.

Impel Down: 9/10 - I love Impel Down and I'd score it a 10/10 if it were just a bit tighter overall. The start of it is a little loose but when it gets rolling...it's great. This is how Split the Party needs to be done. Bringing in former baddies to round out the crew makes Luffy such a more interesting and dynamic character and all the lore drops we get in Impel Down from finally meeting Jinbe after hearing about him in Baratie is great. Seeing Crocodile and Buggy and Mr. 3 and Bon Clay are highlights. The prison break is iconic and getting to see Luffy put the hurt on Blackbeard was especially fun. Magellan may not be a strongly written antagonist, his motives are pretty one note but he doesn't need to be complicated. The prison itself is more of the antagonist than anything else.

Marineford: 9/10 - Seeing one of the top pirates let loose is a thing of beauty. So many great quotes and scenes, Haki getting another big nod, Ace's death...I've a character limit to consider which is why these are getting shorter but The War at Marineford is one of the arcs I've read more than the three full reads of the series that I've done. It's also the only arc I've actively watched parts of the anime for. It does drag a little which is why it's not a 10, but it's close.

Post-War: 8/10 -Seeing what the rest of the team is up to and setting up the time skip is done well here. Using it as a chance to tell Luffy's backstory, in a way we've seen almost the entire rest of the crew up to this point, is well handled.

The Summit War Saga is how to do split the party right as I've said elsewhere. It plays with our expectations by, instead of introducing a whole new roster of people for Luffy to work with, we see familiar faces in a different light. The circumstances make them different and really sells the idea that losing your dreams is what's needed to reevaluate your position in the world. That no one seems to really hold a deep grudge against Luffy is great and Oda actually killing Ace makes this Saga and its payoff all the more powerful. Seeing Luffy's backstory finally is another big plus to this Saga. It's everything that makes One Piece good and while Enies Lobby shines brighter, The Summit War is, imho, the stronger Saga overall.

Spoiler: Fishman Island

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Return to Sabaody Archipelago: 7/10 -A much needed reintroduction of the crew at the time, as the series had a pretty big break. Now it's not so important but it's still a good "and we're back" arc as far as manga goes.

Fishman Island: 6/10 - Meh. I'd score it lower if it weren't for the establishment of Joy Boy and more info on the Super Weapons. I get we needed a "the team shows off their powers" but Hody is a weak villain with a weak dream and Noah as a threat was meh as well. The best part of this arc is how it sets up Big Mom as a threat.

The Fishman Island Saga is a slow start after the timeskip. It's a dull start too, all things considered. I don't hate it but I also don't love it.

Spoiler: Dresrossa

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Punk Hazard: 7/10 -Law returning and the alliance forming is what makes this arc so good. It also starts off really slow and exposition heavy and Caesar and his crew are kinda lame, overall, but Punk Hazard bringing back Wano as a thing and some solid fights make up for a lot of those woes.

Dressrosa: 9/10 -Holy goodness is this long. It should have been two arcs, imho, but splitting the party again was a great move. It gave Law room to do his thing and while I wish Robin had a stronger showing in her fight, as well as Usopp, there's some great moments here and the return of Sabo was really fun. The Birdcage is one of my favorite plot points and Gear 4, the first true big upgrade since the time skip was well handled. What makes this arc especially good for me is finally seeing Doffy get punched in his smug face. We'd all been waiting for that for a decade. It was payout well received. Hate that dude.

The Dressrosa Saga is long but it sets up the Yonko Saga. Doffy was a looming threat since Jaya and seeing him paid out for all his crap was great. Shonen often stall with their big tournament arcs and honestly...One Piece sorta does too. Oda did his best but so many characters were introduced that even splitting the main crew wasn't really enough to keep this from dragging. The final payout of that with the Grand Fleet was well done all things considered and I'm excited to see them back.

Spoiler: The Yonko

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Zou: 8/10 - Raizo is safe is one of the best twists the series has thrown at us and finally showing the Minks after they were shadow-introduced in Sabaody was nice. It also confirmed the long running theory that Bepo was a Mink. Zou is solid more because of what it's set up for the rest of the Saga but of all the connective tissue arcs it's the most solid.

Wholecake Island: 7/10 - A lot of people hated Wholecake when it was ongoing. It was slow, it wasn't really a combat focused arc, Sanji came off as kind of a tool and people have a love/hate thing with Big Mom but I loved Wholecake. The fairy tale conception, the food theme, the focus less on combat is supported by the weaker members being involved, the heist theme with the assassination and Big Mom's backstory all really clicked. The final fight against Katakuri is a highlight combat as well and while I doubt we'll see another fight between them it was nice to see Luffy establish an actual rival outside the ones we're just told are.

The Reverie: 6/10 - Too short to really have much to say. Seeing Vivi again put breath in my lungs and I've a strong suspicion it won't be the last time we see her moving forward. While I doubt the Bear Paw theory is actually going to happen, having Vivi return to the crew is something I've wanted to see for a long time.

Wano: 9/10 - Too much to say for the unreasonably long arc it's become and also an ongoing discussion. Needless to say, I've loved all of Wano even as it' dragged on. That we're almost to the end...well. We ought to be at this point. Wano as an arc is longer than the first two Saga combined. Wano needed to be its own Saga. I don't care if it fits in with the Yonko theme of this Saga.

That brings us to current.

[Anteros]

I don't care enough to rate every arc, but I'll definitely agree that Water 7/Enies Lobby were the peak.

[lord_khaine]

Yea this is just general speculation about future chapters. And I agree Momo needs a win to feel like his coming of age character arc is complete. I think him doing it direct makes the most sense and mirrors when Kaido lifted everything up to begin with.

Fair. It was kinda vague. And could be applying to anything. So a general reminder felt like the safe call.

As for Momo. Well yeah so far he has been mostly useless.
Problem is of course he is a child in a mans body (literally). Even with a Mythical Zoan, it seems limited what he should be able to accomplish.
Except i guess catching the island. Or taking credit for beating Kaido Usop Style.

Did this elsewhere, figured it'd be cool to see where other people are re: their favorite arcs/how they grade each.

Funny enough. I started reading at the beginning. Found it to silly. And gave up.
Then randomly restarted on the Alabaster Arc. And got hooked.
I certainly agree Alabaster is 10/10. Likely in my oppinion the peak of the story. Even if Water 7 gets close.

And yeah. Sabaody Archipelago is likely the biggest WFT twist. Or it would be.
If not for the even bigger WTF!? moment in Marineford.

[GloatingSwine]

I'm not going to try and rate every arc, but I'd say my top three are Arlong Park, Alabasta, and Water 7/Enies Lobby, and my least favourites are Drum Island and Skypeia.

I don't care about some of the arcs being inconsequential in the long run if they're entertaining in the moment, or significant in the long run if they're not entertaining in the moment.

Arlong Park is the point where if you don't like that, you'll never get into One Piece IMO.

[Traab]

Ah enis lobby, the only arc of any anime where you break down sobbing over a BOAT. God that whole thing was incredible. The last second miracle save, the triumphant exit, the laughter.... then the goodbye. And that apology. I didnt even watch/read all of one piece to that point and I still was choked up by that whole thing.

[Anteros]

Also an issue I take when fans bring out the "it's always been goofy" argument. Sure, One Piece has always been goofy, but it knows how to get serious when the story calls for it. Ask any fan to list the best moments/arcs in the series, and they are near universally the ones that are more serious in tone. We've had plenty of goofy moments throughout the series, but recent events indicate a severe tone shift that will likely last for the rest of the series assuming Luffy continues to use this power.

[Razade]

See though, I take issue that that's not happening here. Because it is, this chapter has been serious. We had two chapters with some goofs but that's just standard. It's not like the tone of the series has just done a 180. Yeah, ask any fan what fights were good and they're going to mention the serious ones but the fight with Kaido has, other than these spots, been really serious. Ask fans and Arlong's fight is going to come up. You know, the one where Luffy wore his teeth. Or Enel with it's goofy face fault or Sugar and Usopp which was hilarious. You don't have to feel the criticism of your position is justified but being on the outside looking in, the "fight's too silly" even though after a chapter and a half we're back to the serious...your criticism doesn't just seem unjustified, it's like you've been reading an entirely different manga than me.

[Anteros]

See though, I take issue that that's not happening here. Because it is, this chapter has been serious. We had two chapters with some goofs but that's just standard. It's not like the tone of the series has just done a 180. Yeah, ask any fan what fights were good and they're going to mention the serious ones but the fight with Kaido has, other than these spots, been really serious. Ask fans and Arlong's fight is going to come up. You know, the one where Luffy wore his teeth. Or Enel with it's goofy face fault or Sugar and Usopp which was hilarious. You don't have to feel the criticism of your position is justified but being on the outside looking in, the "fight's too silly" even though after a chapter and a half we're back to the serious...your criticism doesn't just seem unjustified, it's like you've been reading an entirely different manga than me.

It's only "back to being serious" because the focus shifted away from the fight though. The fight itself is still ludicrous and goofy.

Everything we've seen of Gear 5 so far, from the powers to the black and white color-set basically seems to suggest Luffy old-school cartoons. That's an inherently goofy concept, and If it's going to be part of Luffy's power set going forward, then obviously we're going to see a lot more of it. I'm not saying it's impossible to write a good story with Bugs Bunny as the protagonist....but it's certainly not what I signed up for, and making the change from a type of story that I enjoy to one that I don't after 1,000+ chapters of investment feels bad. At the end of a day it's a shonen. Every arc always ends up with Luffy going full power and beating the antagonist at the last minute. Thus we can expect this goofiness and complete subversion of tension that we just experienced to be at the end of every arc going forward. That's not a good thing. At all.

Now, is it impossible to make the story good from here? No. That's why I'm still reading. After all, Oda managed to make a story about a rubber boy and a guy who holds his sword in his mouth good in the first place. This is on a whole other level though, and will require a level of writing from Oda we haven't seen before. Oda is a repetitive writer. One Piece as a whole is basically the same few stories told over and over with slightly different trappings. Every arc is basically the same. Gang arrives in a new area to find the people oppressed. Gang is originally attacked by the island's inhabitants despite their good intentions, but decides to help them anyway, usually recruiting someone along the way. After a series of minor fights, the arc culminates with everyone standing around cheering on Luffy to beat up the antagonist, while he races some sort of clock to save them all. Skypiea, Thriller Bark, Dresserosa, Fish-man island, and now Wano. Almost all of the major arcs follow the same formula. Fans put up with the repitition because it's also good. There's a reason Water-7/Enies Lobby and Marineford are so universally praised. They're different. But if you asked me if I'm confident that Oda won't fall back on repitition for the rest of the series....I'm doubtful.

[Razade]

I'll be honest. I'm not worried, frankly. Even the more rote arcs from Oda have been fun, and I know what I got into when I got into it. Even if the quality declines, which I generally don't think has happened despite arcs somewhat dragging, I sat through Bleach and Naruto. If One Piece even gets half as bad as that, it'll be just as good as Naruto or Bleach in its prime and I'll take that.

[LaZodiac]

I'll be honest. I'm not worried, frankly. Even the more rote arcs from Oda have been fun, and I know what I got into when I got into it. Even if the quality declines, which I generally don't think has happened despite arcs somewhat dragging, I sat through Bleach and Naruto. If One Piece even gets half as bad as that, it'll be just as good as Naruto or Bleach in its prime and I'll take that.

Honestly? Yeah. While I have my own compunctions about Gear 5 and where the story will go from here, the fact of the matter is that we're all just talking in comparatives.

One Piece at it's worst is still quite a bit better than most of its contemporaries- Sanji being a gross transphobe aside.

[Taevyr]

If we're taking Enies Lobby as the example of "serious, non-goofy and different", you're remembering it differently than I do: Luffy turning chibi mid-fight with Lucci, Kaku turning into a cube, Zoro wielding Usopp as a sword, Usopp singing the Sogeking theme song while sniping from the Tower... It's certainly the best arc of the series in my opinion, but it still leans into the goofiness of One Piece quite a bit.

As for Wano: the fight's only become less serious in the past few chapters due to the power-up, and Kaido's still standing and fighting as well as he was earlier, Luffy can just put up more of a fight now. And Luffy's only holding on by way of that drum beat energy thing atm (which, I admit, is pure deus ex machina atm). Personally, I imagine it'll end much like Enies Lobby: Luffy eventually beating the main opponent by exploiting his new powers, but collapsing afterwards.

[lord_khaine]

Sanji being a gross transphobe aside.

That i think is not entirely correct.
Sanji certainly didnt have any unjust issues with Bon Clay.

[LaZodiac]

That i think is not entirely correct.
Sanji certainly didnt have any unjust issues with Bon Clay.

It's been awhile but I'm pretty sure Sanji disliked him since, you know; villains. They fought a bunch. I don't believe they've interacted otherwise. That being said... *Gestures vaguely to the entirety of Newkama Island*

It is an unfortunate reality that Sanji has elements of him that are Not Great. His rampant horniness and transphobia being the main two.

[hungrycrow]

It's been awhile but I'm pretty sure Sanji disliked him since, you know; villains. They fought a bunch. I don't believe they've interacted otherwise.

Pretty sure they reached some level of mutual respect after Sanji won, and that was part of why Bon Clay decided to help them escape the marines later.

It is an unfortunate reality that Sanji has elements of him that are Not Great. His rampant horniness and transphobia being the main two.

Agreed. There's a lot of Sanji scenes I prefer to ignore, and he'd be one of my favorite characters otherwise.

[LaZodiac]

Pretty sure they reached some level of mutual respect after Sanji won, and that was part of why Bon Clay decided to help them escape the marines later.

Agreed. There's a lot of Sanji scenes I prefer to ignore, and he'd be one of my favorite characters otherwise.

Fair- which really just goes to show Sanji should be more open minded instead of a ****.

As someone whose favorite crewmate has been Sanji for a long, long time... yeah. Yeah. I feel that pain.

[lord_khaine]

It is an unfortunate reality that Sanji has elements of him that are Not Great. His rampant horniness and transphobia being the main two.

All the main cast members have elements that are Not Great. Its called flaws. Luffy thinks to much about food.
Zorro is ruthless and likely a killer. Nami is greedy and deceptive. Sanji, is a ladies man.

Its unreasonable to call him a NewKamaphobia though. A phobia is an unreasonable fear/dislike.
And from what we saw of NewKama island. Then the NewKama has even less concept of personal space than Sanji does.
As seen by him getting chased until he learned to fly. Or Ivankov wanting to stuff Sanji into a dress (though that might have been anime only? if so disregard that).

[LaZodiac]

All the main cast members have elements that are Not Great. Its called flaws. Luffy thinks to much about food.
Zorro is ruthless and likely a killer. Nami is greedy and deceptive. Sanji, is a ladies man.

Its unreasonable to call him a NewKamaphobia though. A phobia is an unreasonable fear/dislike.
And from what we saw of NewKama island. Then the NewKama has even less concept of personal space than Sanji does.
As seen by him getting chased until he learned to fly. Or Ivankov wanting to stuff Sanji into a dress (though that might have been anime only? if so disregard that).

There is a difference between character flaws that are interesting texture vs "hey that's just ****ty", in my opinion.

Sanji wants to be loved by the ladies; here is an island full of ladies and he's grossed out by the fact that they used to be (and visibly read to him as) men. That's ****ty and transphobic, and if he had gotten over it he would have realized that they have an extremely powerful martial arts that probably would have helped him a lot more than learning how to air walk.

Ivankov is a mixed bag in that she is based on Dr Frank n' Furter, who is... a thing I just do feel uncomfortable about. Never been a fan of Rocky Horror Picture Show. Though at least with Ivankov, when she does do this stuff, it is because she can just sorta tell "oh you'll like this actually" and she's just being proactive at egg breaking. Gross, but not evil. And not a justification for Sanji to be so disgusted by them as a whole (even if I'm pretty sure Ivankov and Sanji have never met in canon).

[hungrycrow]

All the main cast members have elements that are Not Great. Its called flaws. Luffy thinks to much about food.
Zorro is ruthless and likely a killer. Nami is greedy and deceptive. Sanji, is a ladies man.

Its unreasonable to call him a NewKamaphobia though. A phobia is an unreasonable fear/dislike.
And from what we saw of NewKama island. Then the NewKama has even less concept of personal space than Sanji does.
As seen by him getting chased until he learned to fly. Or Ivankov wanting to stuff Sanji into a dress (though that might have been anime only? if so disregard that).

There's a point where flaws stop being endearing and just make a character unlikeable, which varies by the reader. My threshold for finding perversion, chauvinism, and transphobia funny is just lower than Oda's. And that's also reflected in all of the Newkama being written as unpleasant stereotypes.

[Dragonus45]

The NewKama are complicated by being a cultural translation of various western ideas about things like Drag Queens and Transness from a while back translated into Japanese culture then translated back to us decades later where they have aged differently. I don't want to go tooooooooo deep into the discussion again but I tend to love them, they are freaky weirdos living their best lives and apologizing to no one about it and screaming **** the Govt at the Navy the whole time. They are close to exactly what I want in representation at least in the context of One Piece and it's wacky wild over the top goofy world. But millage willvary here, especially depending a lot on age and what your reference pool is more then is average in this case I think. That said Sanji is an ******* while I think him being a horny jackass who will take a beating before he hits a woman even when she clearly deserves it is funny, I do hope before things end we see Oda re-contextualize his time on the island with some sort of follow up that's less cringe.

[LaZodiac]

The NewKama are complicated by being a cultural translation of various western ideas about things like Drag Queens and Transness from a while back translated into Japanese culture then translated back to us decades later where they have aged differently. I don't want to go tooooooooo deep into the discussion again but I tend to love them, they are freaky weirdos living their best lives and apologizing to no one about it and screaming **** the Govt at the Navy the whole time. They are close to exactly what I want in representation at least in the context of One Piece and it's wacky wild over the top goofy world. But millage willvary here, especially depending a lot on age and what your reference pool is more then is average in this case I think. That said Sanji is an ******* while I think him being a horny jackass who will take a beating before he hits a woman even when she clearly deserves it is funny, I do hope before things end we see Oda re-contextualize his time on the island with some sort of follow up that's less cringe.

Agreed.

I actually quite like the Newkama, such as they are. It's an absurd exaggeration honestly not that far off from typical drag... which is neat because I actually dislike drag by a far margin. It being drawn is less rough for me to swallow I guess. But even with that, I'd never disrespect them or think them lesser; that is where Sanji falters.

The horny jackass "almost dies because of a nosebleed due to seeing mermaid's stuff I am not too keen on, but there's something weirdly funny about him just letting Black Maria beat on him because he just COMPLETELY refuses, 100%. No hitting ladies, ever. It helps that his solution was to call in Robin and entrust this fight with her because she's the one most suited to breaking all of Maria's bones.

I do hope Sanji grows a bit on the horny transphobic jackass bit though. My ultimate fear is that he meets Yamato and treats him in a ****ty way... though ironically if he reacted with the same revulsion as he does with the Newkama that might actually be legitimate funny given what Yamato's outward appearance currently is.

[Traab]

There is a difference between character flaws that are interesting texture vs "hey that's just ****ty", in my opinion.

Sanji wants to be loved by the ladies; here is an island full of ladies and he's grossed out by the fact that they used to be (and visibly read to him as) men. That's ****ty and transphobic, and if he had gotten over it he would have realized that they have an extremely powerful martial arts that probably would have helped him a lot more than learning how to air walk.

Ivankov is a mixed bag in that she is based on Dr Frank n' Furter, who is... a thing I just do feel uncomfortable about. Never been a fan of Rocky Horror Picture Show. Though at least with Ivankov, when she does do this stuff, it is because she can just sorta tell "oh you'll like this actually" and she's just being proactive at egg breaking. Gross, but not evil. And not a justification for Sanji to be so disgusted by them as a whole (even if I'm pretty sure Ivankov and Sanji have never met in canon).

I thought most of newkama was more crossdressing or possibly drag than actually trans? I mean, ivankov can literally change your gender right then and there, though im unsure of the limits, so that suggests its not all about identifying as female, right? In all seriousness that entire segment of one piece was just kinda confusing to me in general. And honestly, the best way imo it could have been handled would be to teach sanji a lesson about his pursuit of women. He clearly doesnt like being relentlessly chased and hounded by people he has no interest in, maybe he should consider learning some self control of his own. That sort of thing. Instead it turned his horniness up to 11 to the point where he very nearly died just looking at women after getting away from that island. Im glad that more or less stopped by the end of fishman island, with the main exception being happiness punch mark 2 in wano.

[Dragonus45]

I actually quite like the Newkama, such as they are. It's an absurd exaggeration honestly not that far off from typical drag... which is neat because I actually dislike drag by a far margin. It being drawn is less rough for me to swallow I guess. But even with that, I'd never disrespect them or think them lesser; that is where Sanji falters.

I kind of adore drag myself, which almost certainly colors my perceptions of them.

The horny jackass "almost dies because of a nosebleed due to seeing mermaid's stuff I am not too keen on, but there's something weirdly funny about him just letting Black Maria beat on him because he just COMPLETELY refuses, 100%. No hitting ladies, ever. It helps that his solution was to call in Robin and entrust this fight with her because she's the one most suited to breaking all of Maria's bones.

His trust and faith in his crewmate and willingness to go full Ride or Die there were great character moments. That fight is still a highlight of the whole arc for me and I don't imagine it ever dropping off my top ten.

I thought most of newkama was more crossdressing or possibly drag than actually trans? I mean, ivankov can literally change your gender right then and there, though im unsure of the limits, so that suggests its not all about identifying as female, right? In all seriousness that entire segment of one piece was just kinda confusing to me in general. And honestly, the best way imo it could have been handled would be to teach sanji a lesson about his pursuit of women. He clearly doesnt like being relentlessly chased and hounded by people he has no interest in, maybe he should consider learning some self control of his own. That sort of thing. Instead it turned his horniness up to 11 to the point where he very nearly died just looking at women after getting away from that island. Im glad that more or less stopped by the end of fishman island, with the main exception being happiness punch mark 2 in wano.

So I think I want to say there is a distinction between Okama as with themselves being a diverse group of Gay Men/Drag Queen/Trans Women and Men and such that live on the island and Ivankov's crew of NewKama who have the big speech on being beings beyond gender who all come across as more specifically genderfluid as a result. But this is also looking at it from my Western LGBTQ lense which is sort of an entirely different culture of gayness from Japans as interpreted by Oda.

[LaZodiac]

I don't mind drag it's just not my bag.

Yeah, agreed. Sanji has his issues but damnit he's a good guy at heart and his trusting in Robin to break every single one of Black Maria's bones was wonderful. As what the breaking of said bones, because Robin is one of the best crewmates.

I'd also add that, as near as I can remember from my own read on things; the Newkama are people who got transed by Ivankov and then wear clothing of their assigned at birth gender, but with the flare and style associated with drag. It's meant as an explicit and pure blurring of the lines that perfectly fits in with the genderfluidity they espouse.

This all ties into one of my favorite personal theories (that I've shared before, and others share as well), namely that the big secret Ivankov has over Crocodile is that he's one of them. Crocodile's young self was pretty fem, his dream is this overt masculine "king of pirates" power fantasy, and when they get to the Newkama layer of prison, Luffy gets a drag-y style version f his outfit... and Crocodile just gets his normal ass clothes, implying a lot about where they originally came from.

[Dragonus45]

This all ties into one of my favorite personal theories (that I've shared before, and others share as well), namely that the big secret Ivankov has over Crocodile is that he's one of them. Crocodile's young self was pretty fem, his dream is this overt masculine "king of pirates" power fantasy, and when they get to the Newkama layer of prison, Luffy gets a drag-y style version f his outfit... and Crocodile just gets his normal ass clothes, implying a lot about where they originally came from.

Oh yea Trans Corcodile is fairly subtle as Oda does things but that just means it's implied loudly from a rooftop by a yodeler with the voice of Brian Blessed instead of shouted.

[LaZodiac]

Oh yea Trans Corcodile is fairly subtle as Oda does things but that just means it's implied loudly from a rooftop by a yodeler with the voice of Brian Blessed instead of shouted.

All I really, truly want is just a small scene of Crocodile and Yamato meeting and just, a subtle nod of "I get you". Maybe a fist bump if we're being indulgent. That'd just slay me.

[Dragonus45]

All I really, truly want is just a small scene of Crocodile and Yamato meeting and just, a subtle nod of "I get you". Maybe a fist bump if we're being indulgent. That'd just slay me.

Kikunojo as well now that I think about it.

[lord_khaine]

There is a difference between character flaws that are interesting texture vs "hey that's just ****ty", in my opinion.

Sanji wants to be loved by the ladies; here is an island full of ladies and he's grossed out by the fact that they used to be (and visibly read to him as) men. That's ****ty and transphobic, and if he had gotten over it he would have realized that they have an extremely powerful martial arts that probably would have helped him a lot more than learning how to air walk.

Oh yes certainly is a difference. But in this case its the NewKama who are ****ty, when they fail to recognise "hey we are making that guy uncomfortable by invading his personal space".
It does not matter who you are, or who you were, or what you identify as. Thats the ****ty behavior. Not Sanji who are having his personal space violated.

I also find the whole NewKama situation kinda hilarious in how it seemingly expose a double moral standard here.
Since im quite certain that had it been men chasing Nami around for 2 years there would be angry mobs howling for their blood.

Instead its Sanji who are being chased. So he is a NewKamaphobe. A label he gets solely on the basis of other people failing to respect his personal space.

And honestly, the best way imo it could have been handled would be to teach sanji a lesson about his pursuit of women. He clearly doesnt like being relentlessly chased and hounded by people he has no interest in, maybe he should consider learning some self control of his own. That sort of thing. Instead it turned his horniness up to 11 to the point where he very nearly died just looking at women after getting away from that island. Im glad that more or less stopped by the end of fishman island, with the main exception being happiness punch mark 2 in wano.

At the same time though. With the exception of the Wano incident. Then i cant really of examples where Sanji has pursued women who did not want his attention.
Nami exploits him ruthlessly (and i find it hilarious people seemingly gives her a pass for that. Vivi seemingly? liked the attention? she certainly dont seem to signal she dislikes it.
As for Nico Robin? who the heck knows what she actually thinks. But she does seem fond of sanji. So i doubt she dislike his behavior.