New One Piece Thread

[Razade]

You're assuming literally no one else has ranged capabilities amongst the Shichibukai and Admirals, or that there aren't any contingents that can intercept the flyers as they approach. If you're sending the flyer units ahead of time without distractions, then they'd be easy pickings. And yes, hitting a singular smaller target is quite more difficult than hitting any random ship from a multitude of big battleships. Especially if the right hand man of the Pirate King is blocking the attacks that would have hit.

1. Can you use spaces to break up your responses to quotes? I honestly didn't respond to the other post, one reason, because it's a slog to go through and decouple each answer from a bloc of text.

2. The other reason is all of this. You want to make assumptions on capabilities but when anyone else in this conversation has done so you go "well that's just your interpretation" or some effect of it. What's the point of the discussion if you're going to do that?

[ben-zayb]

1. Can you use spaces to break up your responses to quotes? I honestly didn't respond to the other post, one reason, because it's a slog to go through and decouple each answer from a bloc of text.

2. The other reason is all of this. You want to make assumptions on capabilities but when anyone else in this conversation has done so you go "well that's just your interpretation" or some effect of it. What's the point of the discussion if you're going to do that?

Feel free to respond in however format you want and I'll do the same.

The hypothetical scenario response I made is intended to be bound by the limitations that these characters have shown. If you want to insert your own take on how they would perform if they weren't written to lose to the SH alliance, you're always free to come up with your own detailed breakdown of matchups and tactics based on Traab's prompt.

What if there's no plot armor? What if Kaido is actually a military genius? What if he has his own ship coating facility? What if the Tobi Roppo can actually coordinate their group when on the attack? What if the armored division can take on more than one person at a time?"

You can include your interpretations on any or all of this if you want. Feel free to write it all down. I don't even see myself disagreeing on any of it because just because they happen to work off of fundamentally different premises than mine was.

[Traab]

Remember the marineford deployment? Vice admirals and warlords were inner ring defense. Commodores and below were outer ring with the mooks, including the artillery people. By the time they get anyone there to respond, kaido has dropped from the clouds and boro breathed the entire front arc of marinefords cannons. And I didnt even think of the floating thing he is doing to an entire island. Whitebeard came from underwater, kaidos forces can come from the sky. Either way, those cannons arent going to be very useful.

[Anteros]

I don't think Kaido cares enough about anyone to rescue them, and I don't think he's smart enough to come up with that plan if he did.

It's also a lot easier to see something float slowly towards you in the sky than something underwater.

[Traab]

I don't think Kaido cares enough about anyone to rescue them, and I don't think he's smart enough to come up with that plan if he did.

It's also a lot easier to see something float slowly towards you in the sky than something underwater.

I literally just made up the excuse as that wasnt the point. The point was the marines fighting kaido and his people instead of whitebeard. The motivation doesnt matter. And I dunno, kaido is a battle mad drunk, not an idiot. His commanders arent exactly morons either. Somebody is going to point out the withering fire they will presumably face if they mindlessly charge to marineford and point out that kaido can literally fly the fleet the last couple hours and drop them in the bay at knife range. Or just say, "hey boss, how about slaughtering their entire front line of cannons for us in a single shot so we can land and murder everyone?" Or "Hey King, I dont want to bother the boss while he is drinking so much sea level just dropped, mind taking out the cannons real quick?"

[lord_khaine]

I don't think Kaido cares enough about anyone to rescue them, and I don't think he's smart enough to come up with that plan if he did.

He might plausibly do it if seeing the capture as a challenge on his authorithy.

His commanders arent exactly morons either.

It does also seems pretty plausible that at least King and Queen would be smart enough to make some sort of coherent plan.
Both of them seems decently smart. Well looking at his accomplishments in tecnnology Queen is seemingly a genious surpased only by Vegapunk.

[Anteros]

Queen might be smart when it comes to tech but they're a moron when it comes to strategy and things like that. They've done more to help the alliance in Wano than any character besides Luffy.

[Razade]

Chapter 1048's about to land

Spoiler: 1048

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Double spoilering as usual. You've been warned. Go away if you don't want spoilers.

Spoiler: For Real

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This chapter...honestly can we just get to the end here? Another chapter of Orochi not dying, the final showdown and another damn flashback to the castle burning. I've loved Wano, the art and fighting is going to be rad but like...let's move things along here. Hard to see a point of this chapter when it's just recap/reminding us of the stakes, getting us primed for the epic Luffy beats Kaido down with the kites. Which I'm sure will be epic but...I'm honestly ready for the next arc.

[Anteros]

Chapter 1048's about to land

Spoiler: 1048

Show

Double spoilering as usual. You've been warned. Go away if you don't want spoilers.

Spoiler: For Real

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This chapter...honestly can we just get to the end here? Another chapter of Orochi not dying, the final showdown and another damn flashback to the castle burning. I've loved Wano, the art and fighting is going to be rad but like...let's move things along here. Hard to see a point of this chapter when it's just recap/reminding us of the stakes, getting us primed for the epic Luffy beats Kaido down with the kites. Which I'm sure will be epic but...I'm honestly ready for the next arc.

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How many times has Kaido beat Luffy and let him go so he can come back stronger now? 4? One Piece has always been a bit repetitive, but this has been the most repetitive and drug-out arc by far. We could have honestly ended things 30 chapters ago if it weren't for repeated plot notes. Especially concerning Luffy/Kaido and Orochi.

[Razade]

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It's been 4 yeah, which is one more than Crocodile but that at least wrapped up nicely and we got a nice bit of distance between two and three. I don't know about 30 chapters, and I suspect much like all the other arcs this will read better when I'm not waiting a week to two weeks for updates, but Wano's dragged and I don't there's any real dispute on that. This does seem like the finale, the framing certainly makes it seem that way. I sure hope it is.

[Traab]

It wouldnt surprise me if the final clash happens in chapter 1050. I mean, if he is this close to hitting a round number, why not end it there? Isnt that kind of his thing?

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As for kaido sparing luffy, at least it makes some sense. Kaido is well established as a dude who absolutely loves his fights. He hasnt had a really good one since oden (Or maybe shanks, i dont remember if they ever mentioned how he stopped kaido from going to marineford) And luffy is giving him that fight, pushing him to the limit. We are in the stage of the fight where its raw determination and will keeping them fighting and even without reading the chapter im sure kaido is loving ever second of this. So him not being absolutely certain of the kill is probably at least subconsciously him giving luffy another chance to get back up and keep going. Otherwise after the second time he would have atomized luffy as he lay there knocked out with a boro breath just to make sure this time.

[Dragonus45]

It wouldnt surprise me if the final clash happens in chapter 1050. I mean, if he is this close to hitting a round number, why not end it there? Isnt that kind of his thing?

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As for kaido sparing luffy, at least it makes some sense. Kaido is well established as a dude who absolutely loves his fights. He hasnt had a really good one since oden (Or maybe shanks, i dont remember if they ever mentioned how he stopped kaido from going to marineford) And luffy is giving him that fight, pushing him to the limit. We are in the stage of the fight where its raw determination and will keeping them fighting and even without reading the chapter im sure kaido is loving ever second of this. So him not being absolutely certain of the kill is probably at least subconsciously him giving luffy another chance to get back up and keep going. Otherwise after the second time he would have atomized luffy as he lay there knocked out with a boro breath just to make sure this time.

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So in One Piece you don't win fights by killing an opponent. You win by crushing their spirit and dreams. Oda even says as much in a fairly early QA section. Kaido could smack Luffy when he is down probably, although such moments also give him time to catch his breath and not overextend himself as well really, but what he needs more then the kill is for Luffy to admit defeat and admit that Kaido is right.

[Razade]

It wouldnt surprise me if the final clash happens in chapter 1050. I mean, if he is this close to hitting a round number, why not end it there? Isnt that kind of his thing?

No, Oda's really not for this. His editors had to even point out they were on Chapter 1000 and while Oda's generally free from Jump's executive meddling, their editors and his own basically strong arm'd him into working a few chapters around to get what we got in Chapter 1,000.

"Honestly, I didn't have much motivation for chapter 1000, but people around me said, "One Piece is approaching Chapter 1000!" so then I thought, "Wait, am I expected to draw something special in Chapter 1000?" I gradually felt pressure around chapter 980 when my editors started some celebration plans. I had difficulty trying to spice up the story just in time for chapter 1000.

It was difficult since, in reality, Luffy and my characters don't know they need to hype up their audience for chapter 1000. They are just acting for their own purposes. In retrospect, I'm pretty satisfied with my audience having enjoyed chapter 1000! Thank you for the celebration messages! I appreciate from the bottom of my heart that I"m allowed to draw manga for as many as 1000 chapters!"

Spoiler

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So in One Piece you don't win fights by killing an opponent. You win by crushing their spirit and dreams. Oda even says as much in a fairly early QA section. Kaido could smack Luffy when he is down probably, although such moments also give him time to catch his breath and not overextend himself as well really, but what he needs more then the kill is for Luffy to admit defeat and admit that Kaido is right.

Spoiler: 1048

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double Spoiler

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Luffy said, in this chapter, that he was going to kill Kaido. He's never used that language. We might see Luffy kill, and I'm here for it.

[ben-zayb]

Spoiler: 1048

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This chapter went really hard with the One Piece anime route of gratuitous filler. Maybe to delay something for 1050?

[Razade]

Spoiler: 1048

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This is just the standard "Oda does a chapter before the final hit". We didn't need it in this arc. But it's been like that in every major fight.

[lord_khaine]

So.. besides the spoilered stuff.
Then the official re-edition is just working towards the climax of the alabaster arc.
https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/titles/100030

I am again stunned by just how good this arc is.
Crocodile just possibly is the best OP villain we got.

[Taevyr]

So.. besides the spoilered stuff.
Then the official re-edition is just working towards the climax of the alabaster arc.
https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/titles/100030

I am again stunned by just how good this arc is.
Crocodile just possibly is the best OP villain we got.

To me, the Arlong arc was where I got interested in One Piece beyond "this is alright to waste time on". Alabasta, largely due to Crocodile and the buildup from the rest of the saga, solidified it for me. The entire battle with crocodile, the rebellion, it just... showed how much more was present in this world and Oda's storytelling thus far.

Real nice to reread it like this.

[GloatingSwine]

Spoiler: 1048

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This chapter went really hard with the One Piece anime route of gratuitous filler. Maybe to delay something for 1050?

Spoiler

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Obviously we are now operating on Kimetsu no Yaiba rules and we can now tell that Orochi is dead for real because we got his flashback.

.

[Razade]

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Obviously we are now operating on Kimetsu no Yaiba rules and we can now tell that Orochi is dead for real because we got his flashback.

.

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This has been a One Piece staple long before Demon Slayer became a thing. We've had a flashback before every major defeat since Arlong. It's such a trope people on reddit are screaming because Kaido hasn't had one yet.

[lord_khaine]

Well Kaido's past is curiously absent. We do know next to nothing about him.
Other than little tidbits. Such as him having a child. Being the former crew mate of Big Mom.
And admiring Roger.

But his journey to his current position should be a story about the size of One Piece itself.
All the same. I dont think we will get his story before he is defeated.
Since he is kinda represented as an almost primal force right now.

[GloatingSwine]

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This has been a One Piece staple long before Demon Slayer became a thing. We've had a flashback before every major defeat since Arlong. It's such a trope people on reddit are screaming because Kaido hasn't had one yet.

It's not usually the villain that gets the flashback in One Piece, it's the focused Straw Hat of the arc. In fact is there another example of a villain getting a flashback just before being defeated for good in One Piece?

[Lurkmoar]

I don't recall Crocodile and Enel getting flashbacks...

[Taevyr]

Off the top of my head: for "big villains", we got flashbacks of the pasts of Lucci, Doffy, Big Mom, King, Katakuri/Brulee, and I think Hody (leader of the new world fishmen pirates) as well. So a small amount, but notably more post-timeskip.

There're other main villains who got their pasts shown, like Arlong, but in those few cases it happened after their defeat.


Best flashback goes to Senor Pink though. A true man amongst men

[Anteros]

The filler in this arc is out of control. It's to the point where I don't even get excited for the chapters anymore.

[Dragonus45]

I liked this one, it felt a little short but I think it will read better as part of the arc on the whole then as an individual chapter. For certain the week off thing has been messing the feel of the pacing for sure.

One thing it does specifically though that I like is the way that Luffy fighting Kaido in the sky while a bunch of people below him releasing prayers about wanting to be saved from the arcs villains who have essentially enslaved the entire nation. I feel like that has to be deliberate given the reveal about Luffy's fruit and the deity it represents combined with the way this calls back to his fight against Enel. Also, I'm up to about half way into Thriller Bark in my reread and that scene in Skypiea where Luffy punches out the miles wide storm cloud doom tornado about to destroy an entire island in the sky really hit's different after the reveal. A bunch of scenes have actually, but that one took the cake. Also it reminded that Luffy asking someone to move an island out of the way so he doesn't break it with his giant punch is entirely in line with the series.

[Anteros]

Really? It's the exact same "Luffy fights the villain in the sky while everyone stands around and prays for him to save them" that we had in Skypiea, Dresserosa, Fishman Island, and Thriller Bark. The story is so good that Oda had to tell it 5 times.

You might be able to argue that it's intentional due to Luffy's new links to Nika and such...except that's undermined by the fact that it's an incredibly common trope in every shonen ever.

[Razade]

It's not usually the villain that gets the flashback in One Piece, it's the focused Straw Hat of the arc. In fact is there another example of a villain getting a flashback just before being defeated for good in One Piece?

But...it is? It's both?

Doflamingo got his backstory in flashback before he got pasted.
Big Mon got her backstory before her "defeat" at the Wedding.
Katakuri got one before his defeat.
Senior Pink got one before his defeat

I don't recall Crocodile and Enel getting flashbacks...

They're two of the major ones who haven't had any kind of flashback. Most of the other major arc villains have either in the arc they were introduced or after. Arlong got his after, we've had snippits of Moria, we've had snippets of Blackbeard, we've even had snippets of minor villains like Don Chinjao and Baby 5.

[lord_khaine]

Really? It's the exact same "Luffy fights the villain in the sky while everyone stands around and prays for him to save them" that we had in Skypiea, Dresserosa, Fishman Island, and Thriller Bark. The story is so good that Oda had to tell it 5 times.

It is perhaps getting just a touch repetative yeah.

[Dragonus45]

It is perhaps getting just a touch repetative yeah.

Those were all very different situations, the Kaido and Enel moments feel close to identical sure but that feels like a more deliberate writing choice. The rest all have very different circumstances even if you do get a lot of people cheering for Luffy to win near the end of a lot of recent fights.

[lord_khaine]

Im thinking of something as recent as Flamingo.
That does feel extremely identical.