fixing HP bloat

[somerandomhuman]

so many people say that dnd sorta stops working at higher levels. I think that there are two reasons for this 1.feature bloat 2.HP bloat. I think that feature bloat is the bigger problem but also requires a more extensive fix (a big dig through everything while trying to make leveling up mean something). I have some ideas but would also like yours and any thoughts on a new system.
1. a new hp roll system: when you level up you roll your hit die. if that number is greater than your con you gain that much HP. if it is less than your con you gain hp = to your con.

2. hp max: you cant have more than 15 *hit die HP

3.a wounds system

I would also like help with math. I dont like math it make me brian hurt.

[olskool]

Here are some options...

Option #1: OLD SCHOOL HIT POINTS:

This would reduce the SIZE of the Hit Die. So...

Barbarian, Monk = D10 (HC +4/Lvl)
Fighter, Ranger, Paladin = D8 (HC +3/Lvl)
Cleric, Druid, Rogue = D6 (HC +2/Lvl)
Wizard, Sorcerer, Warlock = D4 (HC +1/Lvl)

The CON bonus would be added ONCE at 1st Level and NEVER again. To make low-level characters less "squishy," we would give a FULL Hit Die for the PC's 0-Level training to become their class. Thus a 0-Level "man-at-arms would have 8 HP. So your Wizard would have between 5 and 8 HP at 1st Level.

The "Easy Mode" Option: Instead of using the CON bonus, just use your CON score instead!
The "Hardcore Mode" Option (abbreviated HC above). After the 10th Level, you only get the added Hit Points in parenthesis.

Option #2: INTERMITTENT HIT DICE:

This method uses the standard Hit Die sizes BUT you only get a new Hit Die when your PROFICIENCY BONUS INCREASES. I would most definitely start the PCs with a FULL HIT DIE for 0-Level here. Thus, a 20th Level Fighter could have up to 70 HP plus any bonuses.

For the HP bonus, you have several options...

1) Add the CON bonus like normal to each new Hit Die.
2) Go "hardcore" and add the bonus for CON just ONCE at 1st Level.
3) Go "medium-hard" and add the CON bonus to the roll, BUT... the total you can roll on that Hit Die cannot be exceeded. So If you rolled a 9 on 1D10 and had a +2 CON bonus, your total HP added would STILL be only 10 and not 11.
4) Go "easy" and add the PC's CON SCORE to their HP total.

These will help you with Hit Point Bloat WITHOUT drastically changing the system.

I have also posted a method I use for: "HP as stun damage & determining Wound Damage" in other threads about wounds and hp here in the forum.

Use what you will and ignore the rest!

[JNAProductions]

so many people say that dnd sorta stops working at higher levels. I think that there are two reasons for this 1.feature bloat 2.HP bloat. I think that feature bloat is the bigger problem but also requires a more extensive fix (a big dig through everything while trying to make leveling up mean something). I have some ideas but would also like yours and any thoughts on a new system.
1. a new hp roll system: when you level up you roll your hit die. if that number is greater than your con you gain that much HP. if it is less than your con you gain hp = to your con.

2. hp max: you cant have more than 15 *hit die HP

3.a wounds system

I would also like help with math. I dont like math it make me brian hurt.

1) Would give everyone much more HP. A Wizard with 10 Con goes from 4 HP per level to 10.

2) That would affect 18+ Con Barbarians at level one, as well as 16+ Con Hill Dwarf Barbarians, 14+ Con Tough Barbarians, and 12+ Con Tough Hill Dwarf Barbarians. So, it would affect basically no one-the most HP you can get without magic items per level past 1st is 17, but that's with 24 Con and therefore a 20th level Barbarian. At every level beforehand, you cap at 15. 1d12 (7)+Con Mod (5)+Tough (2)+Hill Dwarf (1). So this does basically nothing.

3) This is incredibly broad and vague. Could be great, could be awful, but is right now just the barest hint of an idea.

Also, when you say "Stops working" what do you mean?

[GalacticAxekick]

Have two stats.

HP = hit points = how much real damage you can survive. Your HP dont increase with higher levels. Commoners have 4, and adventurers have slightly more.

DP = defense points = how much damage you can defend yourself against in a short period of time. Your DP recover automatically at the start of your turn and grow slowly as you gain levels.

When you take damage, you lose DP. When you're out of DP, you lose HP. Combat is about bypassing DP to deal HP damage.

When you attack a defenseless creature, you ignore DP (or maybe you deal a small amount of guaranteed HP damage). Rogues can do this when a creature is merely distracted (Sneak Attack)

Some attacks can never do HP damage, but do incredible DP damage. These are attacks that set enemies off balance or restrain them.

Some effects prevent the automatic recovery of DP, allowing you to wittle away acts foe in typical 5e fashion.

This would require completely rewriting 5e, but its now I would deal with HP bloat

[Kane0]

so many people say that dnd sorta stops working at higher levels. I think that there are two reasons for this 1.feature bloat 2.HP bloat. I think that feature bloat is the bigger problem but also requires a more extensive fix (a big dig through everything while trying to make leveling up mean something). I have some ideas but would also like yours and any thoughts on a new system.
1. a new hp roll system: when you level up you roll your hit die. if that number is greater than your con you gain that much HP. if it is less than your con you gain hp = to your con.

2. hp max: you cant have more than 15 *hit die HP

3.a wounds system

I would also like help with math. I dont like math it make me brian hurt.

Simplest way I handle it:
Level 1 = Constitution SCORE plus maximum of class hit die
Level 2 and higher = Class hit die
Hit Dice = as per the the usual rules (class hit die + Constitution MODIFIER for each one you spend)
This means you start with a few more HP, it evens out around levels 4-8 and you have less as you get past level 10 or so.

The other thing I've noticed is that HP bloat is notably cut down if you don't give any 'niceties' when doing HP on level-up, like letting players reroll 1s & 2s or allowing them to take average after seeing their roll. If you do this you're buffering their HP growth, which will give them more on average as they gain levels.

[somerandomhuman]

a correction I meant to make - for the first option I came up with its your con mod not stat.

[Draconi Redfir]

having a total of 10 hp and taking 5 damage isn't all that different from having a total of 100 hp and taking 50 damage.

What about a system where everyone has the same max total HP, and monsters deal the same totals of damage? Like everyone has lets say 20hp, and an attack from a goblin could deal 3 damage, but so could an attack from a Dragon. The difference between the two is all flavor, you're probably not going to fight the dragon until after you've fought the goblin, so you surviving the dragon's attack could be flavored as your skill and equipment getting better, rather then just the dragon being weak.

Could help with this by mixing it with CR or levels or something. Creatures that are like, 5+ levels lower / CR lower then you won't be able to hurt you, or only be able to hurt you on critical hits. While creatures 5+ levels / CR above you could potentially kill you in one hit. This way you wouldn't be able to fight the dragon and survive, when you're only supposed to be fighting the goblin. your gear and skill hasn't gotten to the level of matching the dragon's yet.


Cons of this system is that it really kills all sense of progression. The human brain likes to watch numbers go up, and with this, you're not doing that. Health doesn't go up, attack damage doesn't go up, attack rolls or armor class wouldn't go up. It'd be a very simple system, something made for a younger audience or a very basic video game or something.


Don't think I'd ever agree to use anything like this system myself, sounds horrible. But it's a thought i had, and figured it was worth mentioning as an option in case anyone wanted to build upon it.