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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: music that's "cool" to dislike

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage: Stain'd....
    Hey, Stain'd did have one sort-of okay album (Dysfunction) that I was depressed enough to like in '99. In 2000 they weren't worse than the Bizkit yet, I don't think their second album had come out. Also, they were only nu metal by association with Fred Durst; musically, especially after their first album, they fell into a whole different pile of alternative garbage. I admit that the spelling of their band name does make it that much easier to hate them, along with the Bizkit.

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    Default Re: music that's "cool" to dislike

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    I know there are creative, talented artists in most genres, along with some less-so. What is "cool" to like or dislike really depends on one's social group and the media and critics that one chooses to look at. I think people consume music in different ways and for different reasons, and will have different avenues of critique. Some people critique based on classical music theory and deep knowledge of how to play the instruments, others critique on how much or little mass-appeal a composition will have according to current trends.

    It's true, people can be too derisive in criticism of music that wasn't created with them and their preferences in mind. We can all stand to consider the wider purpose for music, of all sorts, in human society and appreciate that there's a role for even the simplest single drum beat to exist next to the most avant-garde classical or progressive composition.

    The most useful sort of critique is to compare "apples to apples", and analyze whether a specific song or artist is succeeding at what they're setting out to do, relative to other examples in the genre. It isn't really meaningful when someone compares two types of music that have entirely different goals.
    I believe you are correct in that disliking a genre is often due to rejecting who likes it.

    Thus it is a class rebellion to say rich people like opera but I don't because it's fat ladies with screechy voices.

    Or to say I don't like country because it's liked by farmers and has twanging singing about tractors & trucks.

    In addition it's often about setting your own self image: "All the other kids at school like rap but I'm more mature; I listen to jazz."

    For me, when I was young, everyone in high school liked Rock and Roll, but when you got to college, you were a grown up and listened to Folk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    ...
    Eventually the Beatles made Yellow Submarine, which was bad. But they were still rich and famous, so other bands continued to make similar stuff until the whole thing fell in on itself and a new genre rose to take over. Everyone thinks of the Beatles as this massive colossus in 1960's pop, but by the end of their run they were awful...
    Bad? Yellow Submarine the song? The Soundtrack? The Movie? The song is still beloved over 50 years later. The soundtrack has 5 songs that most artists would give an arm for. The movie? Not great but sure better than most rock movies in existence... maybe still the best rock cartoon.

    I know people have different tastes, but the Beatles are the perfect example of being relevant & good because they reinvented themselves 3 times. Very few artists can touch the Mop-tops for catchy bankable tunes ( Maybe Elvis, Chuck Berry, Michael Jackson?). The Sgt Pepper Beatles changed music intellectually, and the late Beatles wrote some of the most poignant music that exists today. There is a reason movies like "Yesterday" are still being made. I lived through the Beatles so please forgive my prejudice.


    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Canadian.

    It's cool to dislike Canadian music :P
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage: Stain'd....
    Nah, Staind is terrible, but Limp Bizkit edges them out. Especially since a significant portion of their later catalog is arguably not metal at all.

    This might be a cultural thing. I'm a millennial, I was a teenager in Y2K, and although I haven't thought about Limp Bizkit in years I still have Linkin Park on my playlist so arguably they are my poster child for the genre.
    I'd say that Linkin Park eventually escaped nu metal, much the same way that Korn and Slipknot did. They evolved a bit over the years, to the point where they shook off the nu metal label before it dragged them down.

    I'm not even disagreeing with you about Limp Bizkit, they were horrible. But as horrifying as it sounds, there are worse things than Fred Durst who are just as big in their own genres.
    I'm not even arguing that Limp Bizkit are the worst band ever. Hell, Crazy Town has already been mentioned in this thread and I think they were worse. I'm just saying that if you were to do a word association quiz and ask people to name the first musical act that comes to mind when you list off different genres, Limp Bizkit will probably be the one that comes up most for nu metal, and no other genre would be so represented by its very worst act.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    Hey, Stain'd did have one sort-of okay album (Dysfunction) that I was depressed enough to like in '99. In 2000 they weren't worse than the Bizkit yet, I don't think their second album had come out. Also, they were only nu metal by association with Fred Durst; musically, especially after their first album, they fell into a whole different pile of alternative garbage. I admit that the spelling of their band name does make it that much easier to hate them, along with the Bizkit.
    Pretty much this. Once "Outside" became a huge single they abandoned the metal sound entirely and made whiny soft rock.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    That's debatable.
    No, it's quantifiable. In my video, Neil Peart is playing 22 Drums not including cymbals or the glockenspiel. In your video, Buddy Rich is playing 4 drums. Therefore, Neil Peart is 5.5 times the drummer that Buddy Rich is.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: music that's "cool" to dislike

    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgar View Post
    No, it's quantifiable. In my video, Neil Peart is playing 22 Drums not including cymbals or the glockenspiel. In your video, Buddy Rich is playing 4 drums. Therefore, Neil Peart is 5.5 times the drummer that Buddy Rich is.
    A.) My video had both Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa, both of whom are widely considered among the best drummers ever (along with Neil Peart).
    2.) More drums ≠ better drummer.
    iii.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Peart
    Just consider that fact - that history - combined with the quote from perhaps the only other candidate for all-time drum hero, Gene Krupa. He said Buddy Rich was, ‘the greatest drummer ever to have drawn breath.’

    Those are fightin’ words, no question, and that was maybe 50 years ago, but I believe Gene was correct.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2022-04-09 at 12:01 AM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    A.) My video had both Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa, both of whom are widely considered among the best drummers ever (along with Neil Peart).
    You can't argue with math. All that means is Neil Peart is 2.75 times as good as Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa combined.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgar View Post
    You can't argue with math. All that means is Neil Peart is 2.75 times as good as Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa combined.
    Dude, you can imagine whatever you want. But when at least two of the best drummers ever say "no, this guy was the greatest", maybe it's time to think your imagination is just that.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  8. - Top - End - #38
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Dude, you can imagine whatever you want. But when at least two of the best drummers ever say "no, this guy was the greatest", maybe it's time to think your imagination is just that.
    Sorry, dude. Your opinion that 2 + 2 = 15.33 doesn't change reality. Math triumphs over opinion any day of the week.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgar View Post
    Sorry, dude. Your opinion that 2 + 2 = 15.33 doesn't change reality. Math triumphs over opinion any day of the week.
    By your logic, if my friend Tommy plays on a larger drum set, then he's a better drummer than Peart.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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    Default Re: music that's "cool" to dislike

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    By your logic, if my friend Tommy plays on a larger drum set, then he's a better drummer than Peart.
    You must be so proud to have the best drummer in the world as a friend.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    You must be so proud to have the best drummer in the world as a friend.
    Sure. It also helps that I'm the best guitar player among us, his brother plays bass (four strings clearly the worst), he's got a nice Explorer (Epiphone, not Gibson), but I've played a 12 string in a store before which makes me three times better than the brother and almost twice as good as him.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2022-04-09 at 07:43 AM.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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    Default Re: music that's "cool" to dislike

    C'mon guys, everyone knows that having more sounds always makes better music. Just ask Devin Townsend. It's why prog is objectively the best music, right after classical symphonies.

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    Default Re: music that's "cool" to dislike

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    C'mon guys, everyone knows that having more sounds always makes better music. Just ask Devin Townsend. It's why prog is objectively the best music, right after classical symphonies.
    These go to 11.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Exactly lol. If you can't have more things creating sounds, the next objectively best option is going faster and louder.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: music that's "cool" to dislike

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    C'mon guys, everyone knows that having more sounds always makes better music. Just ask Devin Townsend. It's why prog is objectively the best music, right after classical symphonies.
    *glares in extreme noise*

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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: music that's "cool" to dislike

    Another genre that probably deserves a mention here is emo. While it seems to have faded as people moved on to hating other things, there was a time when emo was the butt of jokes by pretty much everyone other than emo fans.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    The movie? Not great...
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Yellow Submarine is a great movie. Not to mention its big effect on kids media.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Going back to individual musicians rather than genres (although I guess these all fit within 'easy listening'), I distinctly recall it being normative to call out John Denver, John Bolton, Phil Collins, Yanni, Kenny G as terrible or saying something about the listener if they liked them, especially among men. Kind of the 'what kind of girly man would listen to...' corollary to the 'what kind of homosexual would listen to...' aura that disco received. Most everyone flipped on John Denver when he died, retroactively remembering that they like him during his 70s popularity or his Muppet guest starring roles. The others have mostly just faded into 'stuff from the 80s/90s upon which I no longer have a strong opinion.'

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Within the metal community, I think post-black album Metallica is arguably cool to dislike. Certainly the St. Anger album is cool to dislike (although in fairness, it really is a terrible album).
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: music that's "cool" to dislike

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    Within the metal community, I think post-black album Metallica is arguably cool to dislike. Certainly the St. Anger album is cool to dislike (although in fairness, it really is a terrible album).
    I've been disliking Metallica long before it was cool.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    Within the metal community, I think post-black album Metallica is arguably cool to dislike. Certainly the St. Anger album is cool to dislike (although in fairness, it really is a terrible album).
    Definitely. There's a couple songs on Load and Reload I'll listen to, but mostly never went back. Haven't listened to St.Anger since it came out, either. Really, I dont listen to them much at all anymore, but when I do it's Ride or Master. To be fair, there are some good alt-rock songs on Load and Reload. I knew people back then who only liked those albums, and didn't listen to anything else by Metallica. Same story with so many bands who decide to change their sound up. Opeth fans are extremely divided as well...people who were into them because of the extreme metal side of the band tend to hate the more recent completely metal-free prog rock albums. Symphony-X fanbase is the same...they also made a significant (but definitely less than Metallica and Opeth) shift in sound, and many original fans who were into them for their 90's era synthy neo-classical prog elements dislike their last few albums, which are much more traditional metal-sounding (though still with some prog and symphonic/cinematic elements).

    although- I don't think anyone who likes Opeth or Symphony X can be said to be following what is "cool" - seeing as most people in the US have never heard of these bands (which is sad for Symphony X, because they're from New Jersey)
    Last edited by Thrudd; 2022-04-25 at 08:41 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: music that's "cool" to dislike

    I must just mention "Mouldy old dough" by Lieutenant Pigeon.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    Definitely. There's a couple songs on Load and Reload I'll listen to, but mostly never went back. Haven't listened to St.Anger since it came out, either. Really, I dont listen to them much at all anymore, but when I do it's Ride or Master. To be fair, there are some good alt-rock songs on Load and Reload. I knew people back then who only liked those albums, and didn't listen to anything else by Metallica. Same story with so many bands who decide to change their sound up. Opeth fans are extremely divided as well...people who were into them because of the extreme metal side of the band tend to hate the more recent completely metal-free prog rock albums. Symphony-X fanbase is the same...they also made a significant (but definitely less than Metallica and Opeth) shift in sound, and many original fans who were into them for their 90's era synthy neo-classical prog elements dislike their last few albums, which are much more traditional metal-sounding (though still with some prog and symphonic/cinematic elements).

    although- I don't think anyone who likes Opeth or Symphony X can be said to be following what is "cool" - seeing as most people in the US have never heard of these bands (which is sad for Symphony X, because they're from New Jersey)
    I had a weird journey with Metallica. I used to hate them back in the day because I thought they were overexposed and overrated, but a few of their songs eventually started to grow on me. Oddly enough the first one I liked was the song they did for Mission Impossible 2, which is a pretty forgettable song all things considered. Then a few songs from the black album grew on me. Then Drowning Pool did a live cover of Creeping Death (I saw them at Ozzfest like a week before their singer died), and I started getting into older Metallica too. I still don't care for most of Load or Reload, and I've already given my opinion on St. Anger. Everything they've done since then has been forgettable enough that I can't even bring it to mind.

    Symphony X is one of my favorites, though. I listened to The Odyssey so many times I pretty much wore out the CD.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: music that's "cool" to dislike

    2 pages in and no one has mentioned dubstep? I thought that was the poster child for 'music that people make fun of'.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    2 pages in and no one has mentioned dubstep? I thought that was the poster child for 'music that people make fun of'.
    Dubstep is as far as I know deader than disco, and half as remembered since other genres have subsumed and iterated on it at this point. It's no longer "cool to dislike" dubstep because disliking dubstep is beating a dead horse.

    The last time I saw a "dubstep controversy" was when Face Your Fears (the opening theme for Kingdom Hearts 3) was a dubstep song that had Utada Hikaru desperately trying to sing over a "beat" by Skrillex. And while that song was absolutely awful hatred of it is kind of contained to a niche community, and was also overall only a small bump in the road of a game that is very hated for many other reasons.

    The insult to injury is that the ending theme (Don't Think Twice) is EXCELLENT, and the audience was basically clickbaited by early trailers using it, making it seem like it was the OP.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Dubstep is as far as I know deader than disco, and half as remembered since other genres have subsumed and iterated on it at this point. It's no longer "cool to dislike" dubstep because disliking dubstep is beating a dead horse.
    I think the subsumed and iterated part is pretty important. Dubstep, like many types of electronic music, was built around technological development and experimentation. Since these technical capabilities, once unlocked, were not inherently bound to any specific genre of music, they could be widely adopted elsewhere. This sort of thing is actually extremely common in all kinds of arts, new technology-based innovations are created, they briefly proliferate or even become dominant, and then they are subsumed into general production techniques. In architecture this process can be traced across millennia.
    Now publishing a webnovel travelogue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    I had a weird journey with Metallica. I used to hate them back in the day because I thought they were overexposed and overrated, but a few of their songs eventually started to grow on me.
    In just not a fan because I don't particularly like thrash or anything really gruff sounding. Melodic metal is best, and I'm a Stuckey for the British bands, it would seem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    deader than disco
    The genre may be dead but some songs live. Stayin' Alive is one of the greatest songs ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post

    Symphony X is one of my favorites, though. I listened to The Odyssey so many times I pretty much wore out the CD.
    Hell yeah. I will never not stop and listen to all 24 minutes of "The Odyssey" when it comes up on my playlists, and sing "Triumphant! Champion of Ithaca! I will right all the wrongs! Let the gods sing my song! ahahahhhhhh!" at the top of my lungs.

    edit: I'm going to see them at the end of May, they're touring with Haken

    another edit: is it "cool" to dunk on power/prog/symphonnic metal about sci-fi/fantasy/mythology? I've seen a lot of people turned off by "cheesy" lyrics and the melodramatic theatricality of things like Symphony X, Ayreon, Therion...

    I definitely don't feel "cool" for liking prog rock operas about immortal alien cyborgs and songs inspired by the Silmarillion, sci fi movies, Greek mythology and occult hermeticism...but it doesn't make me like them any less lol.

    I don't care how cheesy the lyrics are...if it's people like Floor Jansen, Russel Allen and Damian Wilson singing, I'm f'ing all-in lol
    Last edited by Thrudd; 2022-04-27 at 08:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    [...]is it "cool" to dunk on power/prog/symphonnic metal about sci-fi/fantasy/mythology?[...]
    About as cool as dunking on lyrics about serial killers, vampires, the latest breakup, girls girls girls, boys boys boys, tractors, the beauty of the countryside, gang activities, money, drugs, holy scriptures of any kind etc. :)

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