Cosmic Hunters (OOC)

[chaincomplex]

That sounds great! Though, she wouldn't immediately go about epic spellcasting by trying to tackle creating or learn actual epic spells. It would be to somehow use what she would see as the pinnacle of her brand of magic, 9th level Shadow Illusion and Proteus spells, as the logical next step for her in progressing her magical career.

So, her goal wouldn't be new 'epic' 10th level spells, but simply accessing 10th level spell slots themselves. That would make her desired progression for 21st level the 10th and final level of the Shadowcrafter prestige class and the Improved Spell Capacity [Epic] feat to allow access to 10th level spell slots.

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@DM - What are your rules on retraining useless feats we had to take to qualify for prestige classes? Now that said classes are maxed out, can we retrain them without sacrificing the prestige class's features? I'm asking because I had to take Far Shot to qualify for Invisible Blade, despite Invisible Blade not having anything to do with ranged attacks whatsoever. Would really rather have something like Craven (Champions of Ruin, p. 17) or some other actually useful combat feat if possible.

Don't really need Quick Draw either if I don't have to keep it because it is a prerequisite, especially if I can get some mage crafter to stack a Least Crystal of Return effect on her current Greater Crystal of Truedeath. Maybe swap it for something at least theoretically useful but highly amusing like Undead Empathy (Eberron Campaign Setting, p. 61). Being able to full-on convince mindless undead to stop being hostile and wander off and leave us alone instead of guarding their master's treasure hoard like they were ordered to would be hilarious to see Ux and Delja try to mentally process.

By my reading it's entirely RAW to retrain class and prestige class prerequisite feats without losing either. However it's explicit in PHB that one can't retrain other feats' prerequisite feats or else one loses access to all the feats down the line. So your suggestion of retraining crap requirements is fine providing you don't generalize it outside of classes and prestige classes.

[Geeksthenewsexy]

By my reading it's entirely RAW to retrain class and prestige class prerequisite feats without losing either. However it's explicit in PHB that one can't retrain other feats' prerequisite feats or else one loses access to all the feats down the line. So your suggestion of retraining crap requirements is fine providing you don't generalize it outside of classes and prestige classes.

That would be lovely. In that case, I definitely want to somehow retrain Far Shot first for something actually useful as soon as Myriad gets the opportunity. Probably Quick Draw (and maybe Dodge as well) later on, but definitely Far Shot ASAP.

[remetagross]

Ah, the joy that is feat tax.

[Geeksthenewsexy]

*watches Biscuit casually attempt to crash the salt market by injecting literal tons of it into the economy all at once*

Could also sell shadow cookies of Ice Ship & Servant Horde as a set. Instant ship & crew. No idea how good an unseen servant crew would be, but likely better than no crew at all. I know they can row, at least. lol

[Metastachydium]

…and if the shadow salt brand name (which is pure badass) doesn't work out, she can still magically dye it pink and label it Himalaya or something. (Also, is her unnamed acquaintance Myriad, or does she just have several people like Myriad tossing out weird nicknames for stuff in her life?)

[Biscuit]

It will have definitely been Geek's character to have come up with the name 'Shadow Cookies'. I don't know if I could handle 'several people like Myriad'. There would likely be bloodshed. With witty comebacks and sass, but bloodshed nonetheless.

"Shadow Salt™ - Powerful enough to fulfill your darkest cravings. From the maker of the beloved Shadow Cookies™ and the wildly popular Illusions by Azlin™, accept no sodium substitutes. Why settle for light flavor when you can use...Shadow Salt™."
(Shadow Salt™, its parent company, and all subsidiaries are in no way responsible for adverse magical reactions or addiction, injury or death from misuse or misplacement of the product, or high blood pressure caused by a high sodium diet. Do not exceed recommended serving size. If salty taste lingers for more than 4 hours, please consult your local Divine Caster. By accepting the Shadow Salt™ product, you have agreed to these terms by default and waive your right to seek justice from man, god, or monster.)

[chaincomplex]

I will reread it but just OTOH I do not interpret the percentage to apply to physical facts of what is conjured unless explicitly stated, and I don't believe I am wrong in this by RAW. You can consider this my ruling for now unless I correct myself at a later date.

[Metastachydium]

It will have definitely been Geek's character to have come up with the name 'Shadow Cookies'. I don't know if I could handle 'several people like Myriad'. There would likely be bloodshed. With witty comebacks and sass, but bloodshed nonetheless.

Well stabbing all the things is half her deal… And apparently she has an Evil version somewhere? So, yeah.

(Shadow Salt™, its parent company, and all subsidiaries are in no way responsible for adverse magical reactions or addiction, injury or death from misuse or misplacement of the product, or high blood pressure caused by a high sodium diet. Do not exceed recommended serving size. If salty taste lingers for more than 4 hours, please consult your local Divine Caster. By accepting the Shadow Salt™ product, you have agreed to these terms by default and waive your right to seek justice from man, god, or monster.)[/SIZE]

Do not taunt happy fun ball Shadow Salt™! (In unrelated news, it's good to know we won't have to hire both an arcanist and a separate marketing consultant.)

[Geeksthenewsexy]

Well stabbing all the things is half her deal… And apparently she has an Evil version somewhere? So, yeah.

That's the best part - Myriad is all the different versions. Just depends on the currently used persona. :-p

Also, 'Shadow Salt' sounds like it would have a subtle smokiness and spiciness. Kinda want to mix it with garlic and put it on french fries now.

[Biscuit]

Do not taunt happy fun ball Shadow Salt™! (In unrelated news, it's good to know we won't have to hire both an arcanist and a separate marketing consultant.)

Also, 'Shadow Salt' sounds like it would have a subtle smokiness and spiciness. Kinda want to mix it with garlic and put it on french fries now.

Shadow Salt™, in a proud partnership with Prestidigitation's patented Flavour Enhancement© process, and for a limited time only (1 Hour Duration), presents a new product line: Spicy Garlic Shadow Salt™.

As an aside, Azlin's Appraise mod is only +4, so she likely has no realistic idea how much her products are worth, especially to to low-level adventurers. I imagine the Homer Simpson meme where his brain is working on the "Money can be exchanged for goods and services" problem.

[remetagross]

Man, Tyrell's is so going to go bankrupt.

I am fearing the multiverse conflagration waiting to happen the minute Azlin and Myriad meet

[Metastachydium]

Eh, it happened before, and at least one universe remained largely in one piece and functional. The toll on poor D.'s sanity might still prove overwhelming, nevertheless.

[Geeksthenewsexy]

I wonder if the temple sells high blood pressure curatives and/or anti-stroke potions. I think Delja might end up needing one if she hangs around Myriad too long. lmao

[chaincomplex]

@Biscuit If Azlin says yes to finding a wealthy patron/partner for her magics, there'll be background checks. If you go this route I'll want to know where on the Material Plane Azlin is best known in, what she is known for, etc. "Azlin is unknown" is a valid response but this will have obvious implications for how things shake out.

[remetagross]

Ooooh, touchy mate we have here. I'm wondering how many seconds Myriad will hold before rubbing his face in some Factol/Factor wordplay antics. Prepare the aspirin, Delja

[Geeksthenewsexy]

There is a method to her madness! Thoroughly distracting him counts as an Aid Another attempt, right? lol
*starts innocently working in the word 'factor' into everything she says*

[remetagross]

Actually, both Ux Utanar and his player have been utterly bamboozled by how all this awed inspection of the room was a hidden frisk

Oh, by the way, chaincomplex: I'm utterly impressed by the amount of energy you pour into your descriptions. It's a superb work that really creates that sense of atmosphere even through a forum medium. Plus, you really took the time to take in all the topography of Sigil, the proper place names, the proper factions...the Planar Handbook writers are beaming wherever they are

[Geeksthenewsexy]

Actually, both Ux Utanar and his player have been utterly bamboozled by how all this awed inspection of the room was a hidden frisk

Oh, by the way, chaincomplex: I'm utterly impressed by the amount of energy you pour into your descriptions. It's a superb work that really creates that sense of atmosphere even through a forum medium. Plus, you really took the time to take in all the topography of Sigil, the proper place names, the proper factions...the Planar Handbook writers are beaming wherever they are

Everything she does is a hidden frisk! Myriad if a thief at heart whose concept is 'always stealing something'. Stealing wealth (looting), stealing attention (feinting), stealing information (searching), stealing someone/something's life (stabbing), stealing defenses (trap searching/disabling & open locks), stealing entry into places she shouldn't be (Master of Doors), stealing personalities to use as her own (shape change & acting/social skills), stealing the show (performing), stealing information and goodwill (social skills), etc, etc. Muahaha! Though, sometimes the 'trick' is just making people think she's harmless and/or innocently naive. Makes it easier to con them later, if needed, or to keep them from digging to deep. :-p

Seconded, wholeheartedly. Chainedcomplex should change his name to 'Off-The-Chain-Complex'. Fantastic worldbuilding - totally off the chain!

[Metastachydium]

Ooooh, touchy mate we have here. I'm wondering how many seconds Myriad will hold before rubbing his face in some Factol/Factor wordplay antics. Prepare the aspirin, Delja

She really should have stopped by a pharmacy when she had the chance!

Oh, by the way, chaincomplex: I'm utterly impressed by the amount of energy you pour into your descriptions. It's a superb work that really creates that sense of atmosphere even through a forum medium. Plus, you really took the time to take in all the topography of Sigil, the proper place names, the proper factions...the Planar Handbook writers are beaming wherever they are

Seconded, wholeheartedly. Chainedcomplex should change his name to 'Off-The-Chain-Complex'. Fantastic worldbuilding - totally off the chain!

And let me third that! You really don't settle for less than top notch!

Makes it easier to con them later, if needed, or to keep them from digging to deep. :-p

Watching Delja trying to strangle herself and escape the PAIN with her one available hand must also look funnier from the outside.

[Biscuit]

I fourth the motion - the motion carries.

Just out of curiosity, chaincomplex, is cinnamon illegal in this iteration of The City of Doors?

[chaincomplex]

Appreciate the kind words, all! I try to do justice to 2e's vision of Planescape even if it's not the focus of a given campaign. I've made minor recontextualizations given the reality of 3e/3.5e mechanics but the lore fits great as is and I don't want to overdo changes to the setting, only fill in the gaps where necessary.

I've mentioned the 3.5e epic setting of Union as well, but that one will be heavily recontextualized while keeping the core components so that it's recognizable but no longer some... high-level MMORPG city with level-30 beat cops. I understand that not many people particularly like the ELH or the setting of Union so I doubt anyone would take offense at me recasting a good chunk of it.

Just out of curiosity, chaincomplex, is cinnamon illegal in this iteration of The City of Doors?

It was illegal at some point? Feel free to educate me haha.

[Biscuit]

It was illegal at some point? Feel free to educate me haha.

My memory isn't 100%, but the jist is what I remember was originally introduced back in A Guide to Sigil for AD&D:

If there was a place in the Hive that would be considered “the worst”, it would be The Slags. A ghetto with shattered buildings that litter the streets with piles of debris, making what was an impenetrable maze entirely impassable.

Ages ago, the Slags were a slum neighborhood like the rest of the Hive. Then one day, a troop of tanar’ri bent on taking over Sigil crossed a portal and used the place as a garrison, setting up troops and supply caches throughout the district. When the Baatezu heard of the tanar’ri’s plans, they sent a number of troops themselves in. The two forces collided, bringing a small part of the Blood War into the Hive. The resulting chaos devastated much of the neighborhood, pulverizing it into an impenetrable maze of monsters and degenerates which was later dubbed The Slags. After the fiends were (mostly) gone, and the streets of the Slags were then hunted by another creature: a monster called Kadyx.

Most people treated the Kadyx as an urban legend or myth, because no one had ever seen it lived to tell of it. However, in and around The Slags, large pockets of utter death and destruction of unimaginable brutality where only bloodstains and rubble remained had one thing in common: the overpowering and cloying scent of cinnamon. After a while, the scent of Cinnamon was enough to break the nerve of the most steadfast denier of the 'urban legend' who would still flee in sheer terror at the smell. And so, import and use of cinnamon was eventually outlawed from the city entirely to restore public order.

No stats or description was ever given of the Kadyx, and was left as a boogeyman the DMs could use or not, to create atmosphere, and could be used as a plot device. The only real information given was two key points of information. The Kadyx smelled strongly of cinnamon, and the Tarasque's only real 'fear' just happened to be the scent of cinnamon, which caused it to go into a panicked rage.

Some of this lore has been used in the some of the DnD videogames that have some iteration of Sigil in the lore or as actual areas, like Planescape: Torment and the Neverwinter Nights games, if I remember correctly. Whether it was used as an anecdotal aside or not, or if it were just loosely based on the original source, I can't say for sure. However, it remains one of my favorite bits of 'lore' surrounding Sigil from my gaming career. My first DnD gaming experience as a player had it laced into the lore, as we had to travel to Sigil to hire a portal master to do some repair work, but the only portal into Sigil we found was one that came into Sigil through The Slags. The overpowerful scent of cinnamon and the utter lack of people until we made it out of the Hive seemed like ambiance until someone asked a guard why it smells like cinnamon in The Hive, and why there were no people. The DM's portrayal of the guard's visceral reaction was one of the most impactful moments for me as a player.

I've used that lore myself in some of the games I've run over the years as well. Good times and noodle salad.

[remetagross]

That's a particularly nice touch of background, indeed.

[Metastachydium]

"If it has stats we can kill it!"
"It doesn't have stats."
"…"

[chaincomplex]

...

That's super neat and good to know, thanks for the heads up and explanation. I'm still trying to source it since the Kadyx bit in the Sigil handbook doesn't seem to comment on the legality of cinnamon. Maybe it's one of the bits of lore added by the games. It's been a while since I've touched Torment. You mention Neverwinter Nights but I don't recall any of its campaigns taking the player to Sigil proper, though there are many half-official premium modules that have been made for it that I could well be missing.

[remetagross]

"If it has stats we can kill it!"
"It doesn't have stats."
"…"

A very good point, actually, all the more so that we're now almost epic characters. For a creature to be out of reach of a group of four 20th-level players, it needs to have truly grotesque stats and abilities, which is usually a bad design.

[Geeksthenewsexy]

I know skill checks do not auto-fail on a 1...but I'm still glad I rolled at least a 2. lol
I know 32 is still very high, and anything 30 and over is considered an "Extraordinary performance." and states that "you may draw attention from distant potential patrons, or even from extraplanar beings," but rolling that low always stresses me out, regardless of the actual result. lol

I've got another game on gitpg right now that I have legitimately rolled Natural 1 on exactly 50% of every roll I've made for the game so far. It is...hella stressful. And we're level 1, so I have jack for modifiers for anything and everything.

[remetagross]

Yikes. This is the domain of failed DCs expressed in single digits.

[Geeksthenewsexy]

Chaincomplex - Just out of curiosity - would Myriad's mithril replacement Arm of Nyr trigger contact poison? Because if not, slathering her prosthetic hand in a contact poison and bluffing her way into a surprise handshake with a baddy would be kind of hilarious, and totally something she would do.

[remetagross]

This is hilarious indeed :D kinda reminds me of the shocker disks Donald Duck keeps in his palm when handshaking people on April Fool's Day. But deadlier.