Grrl Power VII: Let Me Explain For The Next Thirty Comics!

[Radar]

Well thats what I mean when I say that he's starting to agitate people who can afford to act somewhat arbitrarily. The US CAN refuse it. It would be illogical to do so, but the leadership has the capacity and wiggle room to act illogically without crashing their country. So Deus cant actually be sure what they'll do.

That's true, but if he wants to make it big, it was inevitable at some point and any kind of power play is always a high risk, high reward game. The thing is, other superpowers are pretty sure to step in, if US would move directly against Dues - just to get a piece of the most valuable cake on Earth. There is also no way to tell, if Deus does not have some insider information on what are US plans concerning him and Galynt situation. After all, he is an important hardware provider for Archon (and possibly other agencies), which gives him valuable contacts.

[sihnfahl]

just to get a piece of the most valuable cake on Earth.

That depends on which is more valuable. The fact that he has access to Alien Tech ... or the fact that he has a heck of a lot of supers working for him?

If there's an invasion, you better have a good mind control thing or the supers be extremely mercenary, cause those supers might just be a bit miffed you got in the way of a Good Thing For Them.

[Radar]

That depends on which is more valuable. The fact that he has access to Alien Tech ... or the fact that he has a heck of a lot of supers working for him?

If there's an invasion, you better have a good mind control thing or the supers be extremely mercenary, cause those supers might just be a bit miffed you got in the way of a Good Thing For Them.

The cake is the information, where supers come from. I assume Dues knows how to at the very least identify them and from that is a direct path to inventing gene tweaking for making supers. But to be honest: all of the above.

[sihnfahl]

The cake is the information, where supers come from. I assume Dues knows how to at the very least identify them and from that is a direct path to inventing gene tweaking for making supers. But to be honest: all of the above.

I believe that was already covered.

It was in Super DNA. When you looked at it in a specific way... it shows that it's a key.

Deus knows how to detect supers because it's literally in their DNA to be super. He hasn't figured out WHAT the powers granted are just from the DNA, but he can detect supers that way.

And that's something they'd want to keep under wraps if possible. If they ever figured out how to manipulate DNA's multidimensional projection....

[Shining Wrath]

The problem with selling information to the highest bidder is that after you sell it, you still have it. How does the US know that Deus isn't selling the same info, or info that leads to the same discoveries, to China / Russia / Egypt / Monaco?

If this were a darker toned comic, Maxima would already be using secure comms to reach the Pentagon, and Operation Seize or Destroy Every Copy of the Info Including the One in Deus' Brain would be in the planning stages with a D-Day & H-Hour of tonight.

As it isn't that sort of comic, this will probably result in an epic battle scene with Halo saving Maxima, and then we'll move on to something else that is shiny.

[lord_khaine]

Except the US and ARCHON are caring, right now. People going "huh, this guy is invading sovereign nations with an army of literal demons. Lets take a closer look at that." is kind of the current reason for them being in Deus' lands in the first place.

No, not really. Maxima is just a Colonel. And the combat leader of Arcswat.
She isnt in a position to take choices on this. So far we dont have any signs that the actually relevant people care about what happens in afrika.
And why should they now when they have not done earlier.

That's true, but if he wants to make it big, it was inevitable at some point and any kind of power play is always a high risk, high reward game. The thing is, other superpowers are pretty sure to step in, if US would move directly against Dues - just to get a piece of the most valuable cake on Earth. There is also no way to tell, if Deus does not have some insider information on what are US plans concerning him and Galynt situation. After all, he is an important hardware provider for Archon (and possibly other agencies), which gives him valuable contacts.

Case is. Deus has information thats just to valuable to make it worth antagonizing him over a few bits of land 95% of the population could not accurately point out on a map.
Also i assume he own enough senators to ensure no vote to get in his way gets through.

If this were a darker toned comic, Maxima would already be using secure comms to reach the Pentagon, and Operation Seize or Destroy Every Copy of the Info Including the One in Deus' Brain would be in the planning stages with a D-Day & H-Hour of tonight.

Nah. That mission would have to low odds of success.
Initially i think its a given that the only reason Deus allow Max to be alone with him is an extensive psychic profile of her.
That leaves him certain about how morally inflexible she is.

Besides that. The problem with information is its impossible to know if you got every single copy.
And basically impossible to prevent an emergency sending of all the info to every major power should something happen to Deus.

[Shining Wrath]

No, not really. Maxima is just a Colonel. And the combat leader of Arcswat.
She isnt in a position to take choices on this. So far we dont have any signs that the actually relevant people care about what happens in afrika.
And why should they now when they have not done earlier.



Case is. Deus has information thats just to valuable to make it worth antagonizing him over a few bits of land 95% of the population could not accurately point out on a map.
Also i assume he own enough senators to ensure no vote to get in his way gets through.



Nah. That mission would have to low odds of success.
Initially i think its a given that the only reason Deus allow Max to be alone with him is an extensive psychic profile of her.
That leaves him certain about how morally inflexible she is.

Besides that. The problem with information is its impossible to know if you got every single copy.
And basically impossible to prevent an emergency sending of all the info to every major power should something happen to Deus.

Remember that Arclyte is just as good as Arcswat. They can, in fact, be sure they've got every copy, because they are super-techs. Plus if there's nothing left of Deus' complex except tiny, tiny pieces of flaming rubble, and yes you are good enough to know you've found every single hidden room (even without alien tech SAR is a thing), you've got it all.

[Radar]

Remember that Arclyte is just as good as Arcswat. They can, in fact, be sure they've got every copy, because they are super-techs. Plus if there's nothing left of Deus' complex except tiny, tiny pieces of flaming rubble, and yes you are good enough to know you've found every single hidden room (even without alien tech SAR is a thing), you've got it all.

That's assuming all the copies were in that one place instead of some remote, anonymous data center or a safe deposit box for that matter.

[Mechalich]

The real weakness of Deus' plans is that his entire operation has a single point of failure: himself. While he seems to be good at building durable institutions, it simply hasn't been long enough for Galytn to sustain itself without him at the helm. It would collapse back into corruption almost instantly should he vanish.

He has guards, of course, and I suspect he also has some sort of contingency-style effect to teleport himself to a safe location if he really deems it necessary, but it's clearly a vulnerability. In fact, the comic is aware of this, since that's presumably what the current assault is attempting to achieve. A bunch of helicopters can't occupy squat, but they can launch a kill or capture strike.

[Shining Wrath]

That's assuming all the copies were in that one place instead of some remote, anonymous data center or a safe deposit box for that matter.

Both of which put the most valuable information in the world, in a place where Deus no longer controls it. Banks have keys to safe deposit boxes, system administrators have access to everything in the data center.

This information is worth billions or trillions, and you're going to trust some anonymous flunky?

[Traab]

Both of which put the most valuable information in the world, in a place where Deus no longer controls it. Banks have keys to safe deposit boxes, system administrators have access to everything in the data center.

This information is worth billions or trillions, and you're going to trust some anonymous flunky?

I mean, I think the point is to ensure its spread should he be double crossed right? I dont think it would be that hard to make contacts who would be willing to do that sort of thing. Heck, all he needs is a sort of deadmans switch on a server housed in some random location where if he doesnt send a signal every so often its instantly uploaded to the internet On thousands of sites like a viral wave and everyone on earth gets to see how it works, so the back stabbers lose most of their advantage. He has teleporters so it wouldnt be hard for him to make a quick trip to timbuktu to appear in a sealed office building with no windows to type in his command with nobody being the wiser.

[Shining Wrath]

I mean, I think the point is to ensure its spread should he be double crossed right? I dont think it would be that hard to make contacts who would be willing to do that sort of thing. Heck, all he needs is a sort of deadmans switch on a server housed in some random location where if he doesnt send a signal every so often its instantly uploaded to the internet On thousands of sites like a viral wave and everyone on earth gets to see how it works, so the back stabbers lose most of their advantage. He has teleporters so it wouldnt be hard for him to make a quick trip to timbuktu to appear in a sealed office building with no windows to type in his command with nobody being the wiser.

So then all someone who wants the tech has to do is cut off Galyta's internet. That's probably surprisingly easy to do; the international internet is measured in hundreds of cables, not millions, and poor African countries may only have a couple of connections to overseas.

[Radar]

So then all someone who wants the tech has to do is cut off Galyta's internet. That's probably surprisingly easy to do; the international internet is measured in hundreds of cables, not millions, and poor African countries may only have a couple of connections to overseas.

The trick is to have it exclusively. If you trigger the failsafe, everyone would get this information and you will not get any advantage.

[Shining Wrath]

The trick is to have it exclusively. If you trigger the failsafe, everyone would get this information and you will not get any advantage.

US: pays Deus $B for tech!
China: pays Deus $B for tech!
Russia: says "screw that!", gets tech for free, US & China are out $B for nothing.
EDIT: Or go further down the power scale, and after Russia, EU, Japan,, et cetera, have all shelled out, one of Deus' poor neighbors decides their only chance at competing is to cut a wire. These cables are often underwater, a scuba diver with bolt cutters who knows what they are doing can cut a small country off from the world. So, OK, Deus probably has mutant ill-tempered sea bass with lasers guarding his, but enough guys with bolt cutters can still get one through.

[Ibrinar]

A dead man switch doesn't have to be happen fast, otherwise a simple blackout would release it. Setting the countdown to a few days makes it pretty hard to trigger it without either taking him prisoner or killing him.

Though it does create motivation for those down the scale who don't have it to kill him, but he can't keep everyone from trying to kill him so some of the big ones would be worthwhile. And just not making the existence public and only telling specific powers about it could create enough ambiguity to make killing him to trigger it less attractive.

[Traab]

So then all someone who wants the tech has to do is cut off Galyta's internet. That's probably surprisingly easy to do; the international internet is measured in hundreds of cables, not millions, and poor African countries may only have a couple of connections to overseas.

I didnt say it would be in deus territory, in fact it would be rather stupid if it were. Think voldemort if he were intelligent. Instead of focusing on legendary relics and keeping them in meaningful locations, he turned random objects into horcruxes and distributed them all across europe and maybe even further? When you literally have the power to TELEPORT, distance becomes less of a fuss and expands your range immensely. Going from looking for a needle in a haystack, to looking for a needle thats in some pile of hay somewhere in the midwest. If deus had a small bunker located in, I dunno, new zealand built in secret, he could have opal teleport him there once a week or whatever to put in the dead mans code. Depending on how specific her knowledge has to be of where she is portaling to she might not even have to know. Or he could have a dozen or so trips that are faked so even if she gets captured they cant target his secret bunker easily.

And you cant even pretend that this isnt the sort of convoluted backup measure he would take.

[The Glyphstone]

It seem like people are getting confused on Hypothetical Deus's motives here; this started by someone saying that killing him would keep the secret of super creation exclusive, and the various Deadman failsafes proposed since then were ways to foil that.

[Radar]

It seem like people are getting confused on Hypothetical Deus's motives here; this started by someone saying that killing him would keep the secret of super creation exclusive, and the various Deadman failsafes proposed since then were ways to foil that.

Suddenly this seems as relevant in the discussion.

[Shining Wrath]

I didnt say it would be in deus territory, in fact it would be rather stupid if it were. Think voldemort if he were intelligent. Instead of focusing on legendary relics and keeping them in meaningful locations, he turned random objects into horcruxes and distributed them all across europe and maybe even further? When you literally have the power to TELEPORT, distance becomes less of a fuss and expands your range immensely. Going from looking for a needle in a haystack, to looking for a needle thats in some pile of hay somewhere in the midwest. If deus had a small bunker located in, I dunno, new zealand built in secret, he could have opal teleport him there once a week or whatever to put in the dead mans code. Depending on how specific her knowledge has to be of where she is portaling to she might not even have to know. Or he could have a dozen or so trips that are faked so even if she gets captured they cant target his secret bunker easily.

And you cant even pretend that this isnt the sort of convoluted backup measure he would take.

And now you have a bunker that is not under his military's control that can be discovered and the data extracted. Remember, we're talking about the most important secrets in the world. I don't know if you've ever had a security clearance, but this is NOT a viable plan. In a world where there's supers doing super stuff, the idea that Dabbler / ArcLight / Twilight Council / Russia / China / James Bond can't find your hidden bunker that you visit on the regular is a bad bet.

[Traab]

And now you have a bunker that is not under his military's control that can be discovered and the data extracted. Remember, we're talking about the most important secrets in the world. I don't know if you've ever had a security clearance, but this is NOT a viable plan. In a world where there's supers doing super stuff, the idea that Dabbler / ArcLight / Twilight Council / Russia / China / James Bond can't find your hidden bunker that you visit on the regular is a bad bet.

And now we go the other way where nothing can ever be secret because of powers so why bother even trying to sell the info? Clearly the big brains of each nation/faction have already found and gotten their copy. Going to security through obscurity is absolutely a viable plan for keeping something secret in this type of world. Cant find it if they dont even know what to look for. We are currently seeing the issues with having the info in a known stronghold, you have to be powerful enough to keep a grip on it. But them having to find a random server in a random country that they have no idea if you have ever even been to is a very different matter. Thats assuming it even has to be left on earth. We have no idea what sort of off world connections he has made, or deals with the devil for "in case of disappearance" And that uncertainty is a form of armor itself.

[Shining Wrath]

And now we go the other way where nothing can ever be secret because of powers so why bother even trying to sell the info? Clearly the big brains of each nation/faction have already found and gotten their copy. Going to security through obscurity is absolutely a viable plan for keeping something secret in this type of world. Cant find it if they dont even know what to look for. We are currently seeing the issues with having the info in a known stronghold, you have to be powerful enough to keep a grip on it. But them having to find a random server in a random country that they have no idea if you have ever even been to is a very different matter. Thats assuming it even has to be left on earth. We have no idea what sort of off world connections he has made, or deals with the devil for "in case of disappearance" And that uncertainty is a form of armor itself.

The more copies, the more risk. The more "partners", the more risk. A limited number of copies all under your government's physical control is the only thing that has ever worked in the real world. Sometimes government can be extended to allies, e.g., D-Day both US and UK knew what was happening but managed to avoid the beans being spilled in a way Germany could use.

But you do raise a valid point - once you've sold the information to country X, country X can and probably will share with countries they view as allies, perhaps for a price.

[lord_khaine]

The difference being that in a government a lot of people have to know.
Just for a start all the people involved in the decision. And assistants. The people who have to carry out instructions. Advisors.

Here its basically just Deus who need to know.
And with the resources he has available. Then i cant see any way except full on mind control to prevent a dead man switch made by Deus.
He has to many resources scattered all over the globe.

[Radar]

He has to many resources scattered all over the globe.

And by now probably beyond that as well.

[lord_khaine]

Yeah. I mean he could have had a cache set up on the freaking moon with a powerful radio.
He has a portal device now.

He could have a trusted hench person like Vale have instructions to trigger it under certain conditions.
He could have people he didnt know, and they didnt know, were carrying hypnotic triggers that unlocked information about decryption keys.
The options are endless. And you just have to miss 1 and its out.

Thats why i think Deus is still quite secure. He has not annoyed anyone important.

[Traab]

I will admit though that the risk level of everything is higher in this setting simply due to the random nature of powers, the existence of the supernatural, and of course sci fi alien tech and races with abilities you cant possibly know all of. But that axe swings in both directions. Its easier to find because there may be a person working for arc light who has divination skills at max level. They can toss a pig carcass in a shredder, and read the drippings to find "anything deus is hiding" Toss a collection of fish bones down a flight of stairs and read the pattern to figure out what dangers they need to be aware of today, etc. But then again, deus may have a lock box made of some alien material that blocks all mystical and scientific scans even dabbler would only be able to find if she was specifically looking in a small area for that exact material that holds his MAD plan protocols thats stored on the back side of a black hole because *mumble mumble aetherium* or whatever. Because this setting is wide open for limitless potential in finding hiding protecting and taking things.

[The Glyphstone]

We're also evaluating Deus right now based on his resources alone, as if he were an otherwise normal person. With the undefined boundaries of his super-intelligence, it's not out of bounds that he has already 4-D chessmastered the exact limits of where and how far he can push before any specific adversary would be motivated to act against him, though the current conflict does show he isnt outright omniscient to the point of knowing exactly what form of attack it will take. So I'd suspect at the very least he knows where the lines are and builds his schemes and backups and deadman switches accordingly.

[Yuki Akuma]

The problem with criticising Deus's plans, really, is that he's a super genius being written by somebody who is not a super genius. Most problems you see, if they're not intended to be plot points, will be papered over with "well of course Deus thought of that and accounted for it".

[The Glyphstone]

Pretty much. Which usually tends to be the issue with any super-genius type characters in any media.

[Shining Wrath]

Which is why I have problems with puzzles in D&D; the person playing the Int 8 barbarian figures stuff out as readily as the Int 20 wizard. Having said that, I'm about to unleash a whole bunch of them because the fools are going to venture into a fae-ruled forest.

[Yuki Akuma]

Which is why I have problems with puzzles in D&D; the person playing the Int 8 barbarian figures stuff out as readily as the Int 20 wizard. Having said that, I'm about to unleash a whole bunch of them because the fools are going to venture into a fae-ruled forest.

How I do it is have the party, out of character, figure puzzles out collectively. Then, in-character, it's the characters with high Int and Wis who figure it out.

And if the guy playing the Int 8 Barbarian is the one who solves it OOC, I'm giving him Inspiration.