Whosoever views this Trailer shall possess the power of Thor: Love and Thunder

[Palanan]

Back to Thor's core values of Big Dumb Fun^TM.

Still not sold on Jane. But I'll wait for their explanation.

[DigoDragon]

Back to Thor's core values of Big Dumb Fun^TM.

Still not sold on Jane. But I'll wait for their explanation.

I am totally here for that Big Dumb Fun^TM aspect. It's what made Ragnarok one of my all-time favorites. This new trailer definitely sells the movie better.

As for Jane, I'd wager a guess that this is related to the multi-verse theme going on with this current phase of the MCU.

[Psyren]

Christian Bale's Gorr the God Butcher (think Alien Job meets Kratos) is getting me excited. It's been a while since we've had a truly scary new Marvel villain.

And in the comics, his sword

Spoiler

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is tied to Venom of all people

who we know is now in the MCU too!

[Dragonus45]

Christian Bale's Gorr the God Butcher (think Alien Job meets Kratos) is getting me excited. It's been a while since we've had a truly scary new Marvel villain.

And in the comics, his sword

Spoiler

Show

is tied to Venom of all people

who we know is now in the MCU too!

Gorr in the comics kinds of sucks, but I'll admit this is is looking good. The MCU has been great at salvaging crap stories from the comics though so I hold out some hope.

[Azuresun]

It does seem to confirm that this is the same Jane we saw in the first two Thors, rather than a multiverse version.

[Ramza00]

It does seem to confirm that this is the same Jane we saw in the first two Thors, rather than a multiverse version.

Or perhaps it is a misdirect where AU Jane as Thor is not remembering precise details for she never lived them.

I sure hope it is not the blue text.

[The Glyphstone]

Mjolnir is the wild card for it being Jane-616.

[ben-zayb]

Christian Bale just disappears into every role he takes. I'm definitely seeing this, him and Natalie Portman's Thor individually are probably worth the admission price.

I'm not too keen on seeing Odinson, though. Hopefully, he'll be more of a deuteragonist here.

[theNater]

Or perhaps it is a misdirect where AU Jane as Thor is not remembering precise details for she never lived them.

I sure hope it is not the blue text.

It occurs to me that if Jane was snapped away, they would have experienced a 5 year difference in how long it had been. So 8 years and 7 months for him would be 3 or 4 years for her.

[BloodSquirrel]

It's going to be really hard to make Jane work. She hasn't been part of the cast since 2013, and she was kind of dropped unceremoniously. Now they're going to bring her back- in a movie that already seems like it's going to be a little overcrowded- and have to try to explain why she has Moljnir?

[Ramza00]

It's going to be really hard to make Jane work. She hasn't been part of the cast since 2013, and she was kind of dropped unceremoniously. Now they're going to bring her back- in a movie that already seems like it's going to be a little overcrowded- and have to try to explain why she has Moljnir?

They introduced Valkyrie and made her a fan favorite with a single movie, a movie which was crowded already. I bet they can do the same thing with Jane.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

They introduced Valkyrie and made her a fan favorite with a single movie, a movie which was crowded already. I bet they can do the same thing with Jane.

Thing is, they introduced Valkyrie. They didn’t have two previous movies’ worth of baggage to keep track of for her.

[Ramza00]

Thing is, they introduced Valkyrie. They didn’t have two previous movies’ worth of baggage to keep track of for her.

Okay lets go Meta and then after thinking about "Details", then reverse the concept like turning a Mobius Strip 180 to think of how does one reintroduce Jane to a new audience for not everyone saw the first Thor movies and even if they did that was over 10 years ago.

Spoiler: Details of MCU Time

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2010: Thor 1
2012: Avengers 1
2013: Thor 2, aka Thor and Jane were gone from each other for 3 years only spending how many hours together in Thor 1? Thor and Jane Start Dating after this. Yet Thor is now busy protecting the realms. The Bifrost Bridge is not repaired until 2013 with it being destroyed in 2012.

2015: Avengers 2 both Jane and Pepper Potts did not attend the Avengers Party and Thor plus Stark were bragging about their girlfriends in a competition. Maria Hill was not buying it and making verbal utterances about Testosterone but also giving side eye. Thor after this movie goes searching for the Stones. One last detail about the banter, Thor makes it clear that Jane is way to busy to spend time with him. She has her Career and Thor is proud of her even if he is lonely.

2017: Thor 3, Ragnarok. Thor tells Loki he broke up with Jane after a Fan mentioned it to Thor in NY.

2018: Jane dies^{is blipped} in the Thanos Snap.

2023: Thor and the Avengers reverse the Snap.
2024-2025(ish) Likely date of Thor 4 since it has been 8 years, 7 months, and 6 days since Thor and Jane broke up.

So by my math the maximum time Thor and Jane were dating is 4 years. Of those 4 years, 2 of them were Long Distance due to the Infinity Stone Quest, and even the first two years long distance / work thing with Jane doing Nobel stuff immediately after getting all this convergence / wormhole data in Thor 2.

Thus in Thor's 15 years of life since Thor 1 he only spent 2ish years dating Jane in an attentive fashion, and then it went Long Distance. And during those 2 years of dating Jane was super busy with work.

-----

This is super easy to communicate in 75 seconds or less. Have a Thor / Valkyrie scene where Thor talks about the "ego-ideal" of the relationship, Thor as golden retriever who loves Jane and thinks she is amazing. Then in a different scene have Thor and Jane talk / argue saying that while the 2 years were great Thor was never there and Jane was doing her own thing. Turn this into a growth moment (as a bathos joke) of Thor realizing he is the dumb golden-retriever who did not fully understand what was going on for he is an immortal god and thus is timeless, everything is a party if one is going to live for 5000 years. Jane moved on and always had her own goals.

The irony is this is a bathos reversal of Thor 2 plot for Thor was in love with Jane even though they only met for X hours and Thor 2 was 3 years after the incident. To MCU Thor, Jane is the impossible ideal women, like Don Quixote and Dulcinea of El Toboso, the woman Don Quixote fancies his lady love; her real name is Aldonza Lorenzo, and Don Quixote has never actually met her. Thor was Smitten with Jane and was wanting to live with her before even dating her, he was fighting with his parents when they said this relationship is kind of doomed to fail / be full of heartbreak.

Oh yeah Jane is really into Valkyrie now, so *shrug* Jane is the one who got away to Thor Odinson.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Objection: you’re trying to characterize their previous relationship as one-sided, which is not supported by the movies themselves. Jane had very clearly been pining after Thor in Dark World, that’s why she was distracting herself with that other guy at the restaurant, and IIRC Darcy even calls her out on it.

Also while Odin objected to Jane (being more in favor of his son getting together with Sif), Thor’s mother seemed to be fine with it.

[Ramza00]

Objection: you’re trying to characterize their previous relationship as one-sided, which is not supported by the movies themselves. Jane had very clearly been pining after Thor in Dark World, that’s why she was distracting herself with that other guy at the restaurant, and IIRC Darcy even calls her out on it.

Also while Odin objected to Jane (being more in favor of his son getting together with Sif), Thor’s mother seemed to be fine with it.

Objection there are multiple ways to read that scene. The way you read it is how I would have done so when I watched the movie in 2013.

I am no longer so sure, and I can see dozens of ways to read that scene. Ambiguity in other words.

This is taking information outside the text but the actor who plays Valkyrie says she wants to do a queer love story, and the director wants to tell a love story in Thor Love and Thunder. Thus obviously it is going to be Jane and Valkyrie ^{(I acknowledge this may not occur, I acknowledge this in jest)}

But those same Thor Dark World scenes would make total sense if Jane is a Bisexual who is going through the paces of dating men and just not connecting with any of them. Jane in Thor 2 would be roughly 30 (she just finished her PhD in Thor 1) and is in a place of her life where nothing fits. Starts and then getting stuck is common in Academia and is a theme for Jane in Thor 1 and Thor 2. Why not also apply that same theme to her love life?

And then this Man, this hot man, this Blonde God falls from Space and brings Order and Direction to the rudderless Bisexual's life? Did Jane love Thor for he was hot, for his personality, or perhaps it brought direction to her own story? We never ever actually saw the day to day life of Jane and Thor and what we did see of Jane is she was "listless and adrift." Jane had passion but none of her passion seemed to be making a difference in her academic work till Thor came along.

=====




One of the constants in MCU story telling is the MCU style of humor. In Academic Formalist we described this style as "bathos" which means anti-climatic humor. You set up the punchline, you subvert the punchline, and then you get a form of minor joy via the suprise, but it is not the type of joy as a really good joke that pays off the punch line. Anti-climatic humor is often fun, but you are laughing at the characters on screen. You see Thor as a clown, Tony as a self-obsessed narcissist who is brilliant but steps into messes he should have forsee, Starlord who is all talk but is the fool, Peter Parker with quips that do not fit in the rest of the group for he is from a younger generation but also he is a nerdy and knows more about the cult objects of fandom culture like seeing those 1979/1980s Alien Movies, etc.

Bathos everywhere. Besides being fun and joyful Bathos also helps you speed through exposition and that is one of the reasons why the MCU uses it. For example in Ragnarok there is a 210 second scene, an eternity of a scene of telling the next stage of the plan of how they are going to get a spaceship from the local Jeff Goldblum and pilot it through a wormhole / the devil's anus. Thus have lots of jokes at Loki's expense while he is tied up, have Loki break everyones plan pointing out the flaws, point out Loki is untrustworthy, and in the process create a better plan. All of these are tensions and via the process of bathos and anticlimax you can quickly move through the idea being shifted through and discarded until the new plan is constructed. 210 seconds of a scene is so long in a movie, yet it works due to the MCU humor.

But it is more than that. The plan was not the important part, you talk about why Valkyries motivation has changed from 1 part of the movie to another, why Bruce's motivation has changed, why Thor's motivation has remained consistent, and why Loki has his own motivation which you need to underline to later have Loki subvert his motivation so he can be redeemed later in the movie for Loki stayed behind and decided to fight for family and his people instead of being the self-serving weasel Loki always is.

I expect something similar is going to happen with Jane. Hell I bet the Thor 2 writers wrote the scene the way you described it Kareeah_Indaga, but part of the joke, part of the fun of Bathos is changing meaning throughout time and space. Jane may have been mooning over Thor but realize she just wanted some direction in her life and once she started getting support and attention from the Academic Community she had no more time for Thor especially if he is off saving the world with his Infinity Stone quest.

The writers have so much freedom to write whatever they want in Thor 4

and IIRC Darcy even calls her out on it.

Darcy does not know what Jane is thinking or feeling. Jane is a loss for words in those 2 movies that is part of her character trait. Likewise Darcy in those 2 movies and WandaVision character trait is to make leeps of logic and to fill in the gaps when there is emptiness of words but she sees something is happening.

Thus Darcy assumes it is about Thor but perhaps Darcy is wrong. I assumed it would be about Thor, but that is part of setting up a joke, subverting expectations

Also while Odin objected to Jane (being more in favor of his son getting together with Sif), Thor’s mother seemed to be fine with it.

Yep and this is why Freya is awesome

[Tyndmyr]

One of the constants in MCU story telling is the MCU style of humor. In Academic Formalist we described this style as "bathos" which means anti-climatic humor. You set up the punchline, you subvert the punchline, and then you get a form of minor joy via the suprise, but it is not the type of joy as a really good joke that pays off the punch line.

Eh. Punchlines are not essential for many forms of humor. The subversion of expectations is strong in Thor:Ragnarok, where pretty much everytime someone goes full badass, they get subverted, but that's not universal. There's a lot more traditional banter elsewhere. Sometimes there's meta humor, such as Rocket Raccoon commenting things like "We're five idiots, standing in a circle", which isn't really a punchline subversion so much as it is a joke about common heroic tropes.

For what it's worth, it seems pretty clearly intended early on that she finds Thor attractive, and not merely because he has direction. Initially...he doesn't, he's doin' a fish out of water bit, and his physical attraction is leaned upon. It doesn't seem obvious that Jane was set up for a bi discovery...it's more like a bunch of cobbled together excuses for actress availability.

[Ramza00]

So Marvel Entertainment just released a 30 second new trailer / teaser. Not linking it directly for it has the "flick" scene and thus some nudity but also lots of other blades and weapons, character cameos, etc. If you want to google it the trailer on youtube is called

Marvel Studios' Thor: Love and Thunder | Tickets on Sale Monday

Pretty much they are doing a new trailer / teaser for the movie is out in 30 days, and thus on Monday June 13th you can start pre-ordering your tickets to see the movie in 30 days.

[Wookieetank]

So from my impressions of the trailer, I think it's mainline Jane, who has somehow reforged Mjolnir from the scraps Hela turned it into. Mjolnir has an awful lot of cracks in it when Jane shows up, wondering if her reforging it is what gives her Thor powers.

[Ranxerox]

Well, we are now less than a week away from opening day, and they have not yet allowed anyone to post reviews about it. I'm sure that is not a red flag at all. Great movies that expect warm critical reception do this all the time... though none are coming to mind at this moment.

[The Glyphstone]

You say that like its new or surprising to you that Marvel keeps a tight lid on spoilers. You must not have noticed that Endgame made 2.7 billion despite also having a review embargo up to the last couple of days.Spiderman: No Way Home had an embargo that didn't lift until the end of the world premiere, and made almost 2 billion by itself. Both also very well critically reviewed.

On the same coin, Eternals was also under an embargo until its premiere, and made a pathetic 400mil. So the lesson here is that Marvel embargoes all its movies, giving no indicator on quality.

[Ranxerox]

You say that like its new or surprising to you that Marvel keeps a tight lid on spoilers.

Well, hopefully it just Marvel's obsession with secrecy. Though, I thought that in the past they have allowed a limited number of spoiler free reviews at this point. It is possible that I am misremembering.

[The Glyphstone]

*shrug* maybe? I dont keep that close track, I just know they like their secrets. But it makes sense - movies use early reviews from critics to build hype and get people to see the movie when it comes out. The MCU has become its own hype generator, it doesn't need the help of critics to generate buzz and ticket sales.

[Dragonus45]

You say that like its new or surprising to you that Marvel keeps a tight lid on spoilers. You must not have noticed that Endgame made 2.7 billion despite also having a review embargo up to the last couple of days.Spiderman: No Way Home had an embargo that didn't lift until the end of the world premiere, and made almost 2 billion by itself. Both also very well critically reviewed.

On the same coin, Eternals was also under an embargo until its premiere, and made a pathetic 400mil. So the lesson here is that Marvel embargoes all its movies, giving no indicator on quality.

They can be highly restrictive on plot details but in general they are pretty free with letting people do general reviews ahead of time. It helps build the hype.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Well, hopefully it just Marvel's obsession with secrecy. Though, I thought that in the past they have allowed a limited number of spoiler free reviews at this point. It is possible that I am misremembering.

I’ve seen some first impressions on Youtube and elsewhere. They were just first impressions though.

[The Glyphstone]

Were they good first impressions?

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Were they good first impressions?

They mostly ranged from middling to good. The most critical I recall was complaining that it was a bit stale compared to Ragnarok - doing the same things but where Ragnarok was bringing something new to the table now it’s been done before.

[The Glyphstone]

Ragnarok was the best Thor movie, admittedly, so I'll happily take Ragnarok 2: Thunder Bugaloo.