SaGa Frontier remaster

[danzibr]

If you didn't know, SaGa Frontier (the old PlayStation game) got a remaster! A little bit of additional content for one of the characters, some more content, and, imo most importantly, NG+! It's on Switch and PSN at least.

Man, NG+ is exactly the feature this game needed. I remember playing all the scenarios back in the day, kept grinding the same places/things over and over, Lute in particular was no fun for me. But now with NG+, I made Lute into an absolute beast. You can do wacky things like farm Kylin for your mystics, get the good doctor with 3x Kylin's absorbed.

And apparently there are plans to remaster more in the series. I'm *really* hoping for SaGa Frontier 2. That game... it had so much potential to be so good, I tried hard to enjoy it, who knows, maybe whatever features it gets in the remaster will finally get me loving it.

[Wookieetank]

I wanted to like this game when it first came out, loved the mix of sci-fi and fantasy with the visuals, the characters were interesting, the story (what I saw of it) seemed decent, but dear god were the mechanics terrible and terribly opaque. After getting stranded for the umpteenth time due to crossing some power threshold that jumped the enemies significantly in level without any warning, ended up having to give this game a pass.

[danzibr]

I wanted to like this game when it first came out, loved the mix of sci-fi and fantasy with the visuals, the characters were interesting, the story (what I saw of it) seemed decent, but dear god were the mechanics terrible and terribly opaque. After getting stranded for the umpteenth time due to crossing some power threshold that jumped the enemies significantly in level without any warning, ended up having to give this game a pass.

Ooh fair point. Usually the enemies are determined by your battle rating, which has to do with number of encounters. More encounters, you power up, enemies get selected from tougher pools.

But a good few places have the mobs pulled from something like battle rating+2, much harder, sometimes with moves that’ll wipe your whole party if you’re not equipped properly. Would absolutely be a show stopper.

[Wookieetank]

Ooh fair point. Usually the enemies are determined by your battle rating, which has to do with number of encounters. More encounters, you power up, enemies get selected from tougher pools.

But a good few places have the mobs pulled from something like battle rating+2, much harder, sometimes with moves that’ll wipe your whole party if you’re not equipped properly. Would absolutely be a show stopper.

The creature that eats the bus was one of the worst offenders for me. Things start off decent, but then without fail for me, enemies jump level and now I can't clear the boss to leave.

Blue was one they gave a little too much freedom of movement to I feel. No matter where I went with him always seemed to be underpowered, with no good indication of what order I should be doing things.

Granted I haven't retried this game in over 20 years, so now with reliable internet access and a wide variety of guides, might consider getting the remake.

[DarthArminius]

I wanted a better ending for some of the characters. I did NOT get what I wanted, but later this year I'll definitely get this game.

[NeoVid]

I wonder if it'll still have one of the major issues of the original... grinding your way through a long, tough dungeon, then discovering that dungeon was part of another character's storyline and it was pointless for you to run it when you did.

[danzibr]

The creature that eats the bus was one of the worst offenders for me. Things start off decent, but then without fail for me, enemies jump level and now I can't clear the boss to leave.

Blue was one they gave a little too much freedom of movement to I feel. No matter where I went with him always seemed to be underpowered, with no good indication of what order I should be doing things.

Granted I haven't retried this game in over 20 years, so now with reliable internet access and a wide variety of guides, might consider getting the remake.

Oh yeah that thing that swallows the ship, not a fun dungeon.

I wanted a better ending for some of the characters. I did NOT get what I wanted, but later this year I'll definitely get this game.

Asellus’s quest was definitely improved.

Beyond that, total concur, some of the endings are very not satisfactory.

I wonder if it'll still have one of the major issues of the original... grinding your way through a long, tough dungeon, then discovering that dungeon was part of another character's storyline and it was pointless for you to run it when you did.

Yup that exists. Still quite open world. However none of the dungeons are what I would call pointless.

I think the worst offender was without NG+ features you *had* to run a bunch of non-story related dungeons just to get strong enough to handle the boss, for some characters.

[JeenLeen]

That sounds really cool. I really enjoyed that game, but it's definitely too-grindy for me to enjoy/have time for at this age.
It'd be pretty cool to recruit one of the PCs while playing as another one (e.g., recruit Lute while playing someone else) and have the "other PC" be powerful since you already played their storyline.

Is it known if the Junk Store bug is still there?
I forget the details, but there was a junk shop where you could get 3 items somewhat-randomly generated. But there was a trick how you could get infinite items instead of just 3. The items increased in quality the longer you got them, so you could get some premium gear early-to-mid game.

Ooh fair point. Usually the enemies are determined by your battle rating, which has to do with number of encounters. More encounters, you power up, enemies get selected from tougher pools.

But a good few places have the mobs pulled from something like battle rating+2, much harder, sometimes with moves that’ll wipe your whole party if you’re not equipped properly. Would absolutely be a show stopper.

I remember, with mix of affection and annoyance, trying to dodge fights in that Bio Lab in order to recruit the one monster you could recruit there. Especially as Red since it was so hard to recruit people as him. If I got in too many fights there, they'd quickly overpower me and I'd die before I could get out.

[danzibr]

That sounds really cool. I really enjoyed that game, but it's definitely too-grindy for me to enjoy/have time for at this age.
It'd be pretty cool to recruit one of the PCs while playing as another one (e.g., recruit Lute while playing someone else) and have the "other PC" be powerful since you already played their storyline.

Is it known if the Junk Store bug is still there?
I forget the details, but there was a junk shop where you could get 3 items somewhat-randomly generated. But there was a trick how you could get infinite items instead of just 3. The items increased in quality the longer you got them, so you could get some premium gear early-to-mid game.



I remember, with mix of affection and annoyance, trying to dodge fights in that Bio Lab in order to recruit the one monster you could recruit there. Especially as Red since it was so hard to recruit people as him. If I got in too many fights there, they'd quickly overpower me and I'd die before I could get out.

Oh man, I 100% recommend giving it another go. The too grindy aspect of it is basically eliminated thanks to NG+ (plus abusing the Junk Store bug (yup it still works) and the gold ingots).

And that's indeed what I did with Lute. I recruited him on every playthrough, then when I actually did his, it was a steamroll. Veeeeery refreshing 'cause he had like the lamest scenario in the original game.

[Wookieetank]

So I picked up the Final Fantasy Legend/SaGa trilogy last week to prep myself for SaGa Frontier, figured why not. I'm almost done with Legend 2 already, and its been a delightful trip down memory lane. Taking out the creator in Legend 1 with a chainsaw will never get old, and Legend 2 is just all around fun. Will most likely finish 2 and start 3 sometime today. Least familiar with 3, only ever played through it once, where I've lost track how many times I've gone through 1 & 2.

[danzibr]

So I picked up the Final Fantasy Legend/SaGa trilogy last week to prep myself for SaGa Frontier, figured why not. I'm almost done with Legend 2 already, and its been a delightful trip down memory lane. Taking out the creator in Legend 1 with a chainsaw will never get old, and Legend 2 is just all around fun. Will most likely finish 2 and start 3 sometime today. Least familiar with 3, only ever played through it once, where I've lost track how many times I've gone through 1 & 2.

Nice!

I've *only* played SaGa Frontier & SaGa Frontier 2. I'm interested, just haven't gotten around to it... I'll look into this SaGa trilogy you speak of.

I'm also glad you bumped the thread. I was thinking... I played SaGa Frontier on PS a lot back in the day. I'd say of the types of characters, my preference went:
---Humans>Mechs>=Monsters>>>Mystics

I thought mechs were really cool, but getting a bunch of good to make a full party of mechs good was impossible on a single playthrough. And for monsters, I *really* like that you can change into the baddonkey creatures you come across (black dragon! Dullahan! (except without the horse)). But getting and maintaining good monster forms was always a pain.

But mystics. Ugh. Yuck. A bunch of them can't wear Power Suit. They don't learn sword/martial/gun techs. No stat growth. Barf.

But with the remastered version...
---Humans=mystics=mechs>monsters

Having mystics absorb 3x Mariche, or some combo of Mariche/Griffin/Kylin, incredible. And mechs, with the abundance of items, incredible (though it really depends on the mech, and how many slots they have available, and how much TP). I feel that only monsters lag behind, don't have the same potential as the others.

[Wookieetank]

Game Mechanic stuffs

For FFL1&2 you get to pick your party, for 3 you start with 2 humans and 2 mutants.

FFL1: First off, every item is limited use, and only Mutant and Monster abilities can be recharged at inns, Weapons and spellbooks have to be rebought when they run out.

There's 3 options for characters: Humans, Mutants and Monsters.
Humans level up by buying stat boosts, but have the most customization options with 8 equipment slots.
Mutants are walking RNGs, their stats will randomly increase, and their abilities will randomly change. Only get 4 equipment slots, the other 4 are usable skills/passive abilities.
Monsters are a bit of a mixed bag, they only upgrade by eating monster meat, and its a bit random what they'll change into, but you can get lucky and get some super powerful critters early if you're lucky. Unable to equip anything though.

FFL2: Same as 1, every item is limited use, and only Mutant, Monster and robot abilities can be recharged at inns. Stats for Mutants and Humans go up based on items/skills used.

Humans Strength based, 8 equipment slots as before, can be casters, just take more work to be one
Mutants Magic based, 4 equipment, 4 skills/passives again
Monsters 2nd verse, same as the first. Little bit louder little bit worse. (Really they're pretty much the exact same, I just like that quote)
Robots Their stats increase based on what they have equipped, and can get delightfully ridiculous early on. Also any weapon you equip to them, loses half its uses (rounded down, don't give them single use items), but becomes rechargeable at inns.

FFL3: Has a traditional leveling system, weird right? After battle you'll sometimes get meat or robot parts. Eating meat takes you to demi-human and then monster status. Robot parts turn you Cyborg then Robot. There's a way to reset your character to baseline without issue.

Humans Strength based, but can use magic
Mutants Magic based, high MP pools
Cyborgs Get talents, can still use magic, stats change based on gear far as I can tell
Robots Get talents, no magic, stats based on number and type of vitamins used. Only limit to power is your pocketbook.
Demi-Humans Gets talents, still able to use magic, not sure what else they do, haven't really used.
Monsters No clue, haven't bothered using

Think I'm about 3/4ths of the way through 3 now. 2 is still my favorite, but 3 definitely has some strong points, and is a delightful spiritual precursor to Chrono Trigger.

[Whoracle]

[snip] and is a delightful spiritual precursor to Chrono Trigger.

Oooh... in what way?

[Wookieetank]

Oooh... in what way?

Fair amount of time traveling, and a spiffy airship that looks like it could be a prototype of the Epoch.

Edit: Turns out the boss I'm stuck on right now is actually the final boss, so I'm even farther along than I thought. Might end up gtfoing to restock prior to beating this boss instead of after XD

[danzibr]

game mechanics

Oooh real nice! I love having different character types like this. Makes me want to play 'em. Thanks!

And also that makes it pretty clear where SaGa Frontier got its mechanics from.

Speaking of which, did some digging, it looks like there's a whole series between the original SaGa games and SaGa Frontier (Romancing SaGa 1-3, originally on SNES). I heard of them, but had no idea where they fell.

And great news! They're all on the Switch, like all first 6 games. I know what 6 games I'm playing next.

But it looks like SaGa Fontier is where it ends. No SF2 on the Switch (though apparently there are more remasters coming... I'm hoping for SF2, I feel like a remaster could do soooooo much to make it better).

[Wookieetank]

And great news! They're all on the Switch, like all first 6 games. I know what 6 games I'm playing next.

Oh, oh no. Whelp looks like I got my gaming cut out for me for the foreseeable future. Good thing I only picked up two games in the steam sale...

But it looks like SaGa Fontier is where it ends. No SF2 on the Switch (though apparently there are more remasters coming... I'm hoping for SF2, I feel like a remaster could do soooooo much to make it better).

With the number of older RPGs being remade for the Switch, I'd be very surprised if it doesn't eventually show up. My Switch Library is very quickly becoming more remakes than new games.

So finishes up FFL3, did my restock run (and picked up the buff spells I thought I already had >< ), and final boss went from one person down might as well restart the fight, to challenging but doable.

And then I picked up Saga Frontier from the eshop and dived right in. Much as monsters are an interesting mechanic, they're one of my least favorite (particularly after Pokemon and SMT spoiling me), so I went with Rikki first to get him out of the way. I'd forgotten how ridiculously random and entertaining this game was. World is ending? Here's a magic ring and a portal to safety. Need a party? pick up the local drunks from the bar (literally in Gen's case). Break into a factory? Scale the outside like a champ. Still in the factory, but looking forward to picking it back up after work today.

[danzibr]

Oh, oh no. Whelp looks like I got my gaming cut out for me for the foreseeable future. Good thing I only picked up two games in the steam sale...



With the number of older RPGs being remade for the Switch, I'd be very surprised if it doesn't eventually show up. My Switch Library is very quickly becoming more remakes than new games.

So finishes up FFL3, did my restock run (and picked up the buff spells I thought I already had >< ), and final boss went from one person down might as well restart the fight, to challenging but doable.

And then I picked up Saga Frontier from the eshop and dived right in. Much as monsters are an interesting mechanic, they're one of my least favorite (particularly after Pokemon and SMT spoiling me), so I went with Rikki first to get him out of the way. I'd forgotten how ridiculously random and entertaining this game was. World is ending? Here's a magic ring and a portal to safety. Need a party? pick up the local drunks from the bar (literally in Gen's case). Break into a factory? Scale the outside like a champ. Still in the factory, but looking forward to picking it back up after work today.

Ooh great! Keep us posted!

(and egad just remembered one particularly dreadful battle near the end of Riki’s quest… gl)

[Wookieetank]

Ooh great! Keep us posted!

(and egad just remembered one particularly dreadful battle near the end of Riki’s quest… gl)

Finished up the factory, made use of the junk shop glitch till I got bored (maybe 10-15mins of item gathering). Wandered around Koorong a bit, and decided to go for the next ring in the list Mei Ling tells you of in Mosperiburg, and now I'm back in my all time favorite place of Tanzer's innards. Spent an hour so far running around in there, trying my best to avoid battles (so far I think I've managed to avoid all of 3), before calling it a night. Think I'll give it another 45-60 mins before looking up a guide.

[danzibr]

Finished up the factory, made use of the junk shop glitch till I got bored (maybe 10-15mins of item gathering). Wandered around Koorong a bit, and decided to go for the next ring in the list Mei Ling tells you of in Mosperiburg, and now I'm back in my all time favorite place of Tanzer's innards. Spent an hour so far running around in there, trying my best to avoid battles (so far I think I've managed to avoid all of 3), before calling it a night. Think I'll give it another 45-60 mins before looking up a guide.

Are you following the monk dude?

Yeah, even doing so, it's a pain... I spend way too long in there.

One perk SF has is like all of the monsters can be dodged, bit hard though.

[Wookieetank]

Are you following the monk dude?

Yeah, even doing so, it's a pain... I spend way too long in there.

One perk SF has is like all of the monsters can be dodged, bit hard though.

I did once I found him. Went up instead of down in the first room and made my way all the way to Nomad's base before finding my way to Fei-On's group.

Made up up to the Tanzer boss fight now and gotten wrecked twice so far. You'd think being able to pull off combo attacks of 1000+ damage on the second boss would be enough (and in one case a triple combo for 4k), but nope.

[danzibr]

I did once I found him. Went up instead of down in the first room and made my way all the way to Nomad's base before finding my way to Fei-On's group.

Made up up to the Tanzer boss fight now and gotten wrecked twice so far. You'd think being able to pull off combo attacks of 1000+ damage on the second boss would be enough (and in one case a triple combo for 4k), but nope.

Oof yeah.

You try equipping some healing items? Or backpack?

Big problem with SaGa Frontier is the lack of healing abilities (I mean, not a total lack, but... there aren't many).

Hmm actually iirc Mei-Ling starts with that light healing spell. Could be the difference?

[Wookieetank]

Oof yeah.

You try equipping some healing items? Or backpack?

Big problem with SaGa Frontier is the lack of healing abilities (I mean, not a total lack, but... there aren't many).

Hmm actually iirc Mei-Ling starts with that light healing spell. Could be the difference?

Actually ended up swapping out Mei-Ling for Fei-On (once I finally figured out how to get him IN my party). Once out of Tanzer pretty much blew through the rest of Riki's story, right up until the brick wall of the Magma Slimes. Whoever designed that fight should be fired (honestly wouldn't be surprised if they work for From Software these days).

After a 7ish hour grind/explore fest later, I was able to squeak out a win with Riki having 1 LP left. Then Virgil took another 30-45mins to get past thanks to RNGesus being an upredictable pain on combo triggers.

Now I'm trying to finish off the final boss with Riki in my party (made it this far without ditching him), but I'm sorely tempted to put all my good fighters on team 2 and ditch him, cause his low LP total is the bane of my existence.

Current active party is Riki, T260, Fei-On, Lute and Gen.

[danzibr]

Actually ended up swapping out Mei-Ling for Fei-On (once I finally figured out how to get him IN my party). Once out of Tanzer pretty much blew through the rest of Riki's story, right up until the brick wall of the Magma Slimes. Whoever designed that fight should be fired (honestly wouldn't be surprised if they work for From Software these days).

After a 7ish hour grind/explore fest later, I was able to squeak out a win with Riki having 1 LP left. Then Virgil took another 30-45mins to get past thanks to RNGesus being an upredictable pain on combo triggers.

Now I'm trying to finish off the final boss with Riki in my party (made it this far without ditching him), but I'm sorely tempted to put all my good fighters on team 2 and ditch him, cause his low LP total is the bane of my existence.

Current active party is Riki, T260, Fei-On, Lute and Gen.

Triple grats! Tanzer, PITA. Magma fight, egad awful, but there are spells that can help you out. Virgil and combos, also egad what a pain.

The boss… what form is Riki in? There are a couple relatively easy forms to get that might be able to make his power rocket.

[Wookieetank]

Triple grats! Tanzer, PITA. Magma fight, egad awful, but there are spells that can help you out. Virgil and combos, also egad what a pain.

The boss… what form is Riki in? There are a couple relatively easy forms to get that might be able to make his power rocket.

It was less his power than his sturdiness that was an issue. Ended up having to grind another couple hours to get DSC on Fei-On, and then just strong armed my way through the fight with Riki healing himself every turn. Having a MC with half as many life points as the next person is painfully obnoxious.

Then started up Lute on NG+, figured I might as well get some millage out of all the grinding I did the last 2 days. Didn't realize I'd gotten him to 810HP already, thinking his story is gonna be a much smoother ride.

Really enjoying the game overall even with the need for grinding, but they really should've put a warning label on Riki's story.

[danzibr]

It was less his power than his sturdiness that was an issue. Ended up having to grind another couple hours to get DSC on Fei-On, and then just strong armed my way through the fight with Riki healing himself every turn. Having a MC with half as many life points as the next person is painfully obnoxious.

Then started up Lute on NG+, figured I might as well get some millage out of all the grinding I did the last 2 days. Didn't realize I'd gotten him to 810HP already, thinking his story is gonna be a much smoother ride.

Really enjoying the game overall even with the need for grinding, but they really should've put a warning label on Riki's story.

Grats again!

Yeah I see the warning label suggestion. Thinking back on the different scenarios, some have much better pacing/balance/whatever than others.

Spoiler: Not really a spoiler

Show

Red's is one of the best in terms of challenge, but it helps a lot to recruit some optional people near the beginning.
Lute's is... well, it *can* be awful, you can jump into the final dungeon. Without NG+, gotta grind a lot.
I went with a full mech party for T-260G, need lots of good gear. If you're carrying over items in NG+, super easy. Otherwise, for just a single playthrough it's really rough. Then again, using a couple non-mechs fixes that.
For Blue you get so OP it's not funny/difficult.
Emilia and Asellus, good balance.

And hope you enjoy Lute! NG+ is tricky, if you don't carry over battle rank, Lute will dominate everything, but if you do, any new characters will get hosed. Personally, I used it as an opportunity to train him up on different things (first went swords, can also do magic, unarmed, guns).

[Wookieetank]

And hope you enjoy Lute! NG+ is tricky, if you don't carry over battle rank, Lute will dominate everything, but if you do, any new characters will get hosed. Personally, I used it as an opportunity to train him up on different things (first went swords, can also do magic, unarmed, guns).

Zipped along Lute's story right up until the "Are you sure you want to go here?" and since he's my only character of note, lolnoped to exploring. Didn't carry over battle rank, since Lute was the only character I was sure of having from Riki's run, and I've still found places that'll melt my face (Yorkland Swamp, I will know your secrets one day *shakes fist at the sky*).

Currently running around in the ruins in *mumble mumble*, and working on training up my humans with fisticuffs. Figure I might as well have a cheese method (DSC for everyone!) available for when I run into walls (squints menacingly at Yorkland swamp), but otherwise plan on using characters' starting weapon types for variety.

[danzibr]

Zipped along Lute's story right up until the "Are you sure you want to go here?" and since he's my only character of note, lolnoped to exploring. Didn't carry over battle rank, since Lute was the only character I was sure of having from Riki's run, and I've still found places that'll melt my face (Yorkland Swamp, I will know your secrets one day *shakes fist at the sky*).

Currently running around in the ruins in *mumble mumble*, and working on training up my humans with fisticuffs. Figure I might as well have a cheese method (DSC for everyone!) available for when I run into walls (squints menacingly at Yorkland swamp), but otherwise plan on using characters' starting weapon types for variety.

gl! Though... should be a breeze.

I'm going through trying to get my mystics all with "perfect" absorbs and magic, not that I've been putting much time into SF lately. Right now the basic plan is have everyone absorb mariche/mariche/marche, gives +75 to all stats (even cha!), nice abilities (quick heal, 2x single-target damage abilities). However, for the 2 people that already have healing abilities (Dr. Nusakan and Mesarthim), I'm going with Kylin instead in the weapon slot. +75 to all stats except +50 to cha (which will still max cha), but gives them a better offensive option.

For magic, since mystics aren't swordsmen, I'm going with shadow magic rather than light, don't need Solar Blade or w/e. Would prefer to go arcane on all of them, Shadow Servant into Tower for absurd damage, then after they can use their WP abilities.

[Wookieetank]

Mystic stuffs

So I haven't really ever used the Mystics, had Dr. Nusakan during Riki's story, but didn't know what to do with him so he kept my bench very warm. Any tips/general guidelines for when I next find one?

Ended up picking up the Rune questline, both to get Fei-On back (might be a huge Xenogears nerd), and to have a goal other than wander aimlessly about. Currently sitting at 3 of 4 runes, a 2nd successful Tanzer escape, and Lute being ridiculously over powered. Had him do 21k damage to the boss of Mu's Tomb. Went ahead and started Lute's final dungeon after Mu's Tomb, feel I should have things well in hand.

[danzibr]

So I haven't really ever used the Mystics, had Dr. Nusakan during Riki's story, but didn't know what to do with him so he kept my bench very warm. Any tips/general guidelines for when I next find one?

Ended up picking up the Rune questline, both to get Fei-On back (might be a huge Xenogears nerd), and to have a goal other than wander aimlessly about. Currently sitting at 3 of 4 runes, a 2nd successful Tanzer escape, and Lute being ridiculously over powered. Had him do 21k damage to the boss of Mu's Tomb. Went ahead and started Lute's final dungeon after Mu's Tomb, feel I should have things well in hand.

Nice progress! I don’t mind having to do the magic gift quests on multiple playthroughs. Once you know what you’re doing, they’re really quick.

As for mystic advice, the biggest things to know are…
—most of their stats come from their absorbs (use mystic sword/glove/boot on a monster to hopefully absorb it)
—absorbing a mob also gives you a tech to use
— the stats are same for sword/glove/boots, but techs are different
— they do NOT learn sword/gun/martial techs
— they CAN learn new magic, with the right gift of course
—once you absorb a mob, go to arts, you can check what stat bonus the mob gives you, and what tech
— keep absorbing new mobs until you find one with the stats + tech you want

[Wookieetank]

Nice progress! I don’t mind having to do the magic gift quests on multiple playthroughs. Once you know what you’re doing, they’re really quick.

As for mystic advice, the biggest things to know are…
—most of their stats come from their absorbs (use mystic sword/glove/boot on a monster to hopefully absorb it)
—absorbing a mob also gives you a tech to use
— the stats are same for sword/glove/boots, but techs are different
— they do NOT learn sword/gun/martial techs
— they CAN learn new magic, with the right gift of course
—once you absorb a mob, go to arts, you can check what stat bonus the mob gives you, and what tech
— keep absorbing new mobs until you find one with the stats + tech you want

Does absorbing a monster override previous ones, or is it based on what arts you equip to determine your stat bonus? If it's the latter, might not ever touch monster characters again. For being ferocious beasts of the wild, they're terribly squishy in life points.