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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I value both, as my sig indicates. When the author explains "this is why", that knowledge enhances my enjoyment of the work.
    Ah, but I wasn't talking about enjoyment or value! I completely agree with you, but for a story to make sense, there must be a Watsonian reason behind things. It's dang near axiomatic.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2022-04-27 at 02:29 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Ah, but I wasn't talking about enjoyment or value! I completely agree with you, but for a story to make sense, there must be a Watsonian reason behind things. It's dang near axiomatic.
    That's fair, Watsonian is more critical.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    DrowGirl

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by hungrycrow View Post
    Hmm, if he hadn't left her for dead, he could have tortured her for details on her own Gate.
    I've no comment on the debate about the effectiveness of torture. But, either way, it's not an argument that Xykon made a mistake by not killing Serini.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Xykon enjoyed torturing O-Chul because he kept fighting back. After he fried Serini, she was defeated and he thought it more fun to move on. Maybe if she fought back he would have tortured or destroyed her (of if he was really bored), but he was too excited to get started on her journal.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Xykon defeated O-Chul easily as well at their first confrontation. They were torturing and interrogating him because they need intel on other gates.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by hungrycrow View Post
    Hmm, if he hadn't left her for dead, he could have tortured her for details on her own Gate.
    Or rather, more details on the encryption of her diary, being as that Xykon seems to have known she had a diary and she can't really lie about how it's encrypted.
    The thing is the Azurites don't use a single color; they use a single hue. The use light blue, dark blue, black, white, glossy blue, off-white with a bluish tint. They sky's the limit, as long as it's blue.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizatzhaderac View Post
    Or rather, more details on the encryption of her diary, being as that Xykon seems to have known she had a diary and she can't really lie about how it's encrypted.
    Well, only the locations were encrypted, not the whole diary. Presumably, Xykon started to read the book from the start in some hideout and by the time he realized the locations were encrypted, he assumed the halfling was already dead and well beyond the power of Soul Bind.
    There must be some sense of order - personal, political or dramatic - and if no one else is going to bring it to this world, I will.

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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Do you suppose his Soul Bind gem has limited space, and he's saving what space is left for someone who really annoys him?

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    Do you suppose his Soul Bind gem has limited space, and he's saving what space is left for someone who really annoys him?
    No, but you need to cast the spell almost immediately after the creature expires.
    Last edited by Mike Havran; 2022-04-29 at 12:23 PM.
    There must be some sense of order - personal, political or dramatic - and if no one else is going to bring it to this world, I will.

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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    The gem has a limitation - it has to be worth 1,000 gp for every hit die of the creature whose soul is to be bound. Considering it has a high-level druid and wizard in it already the gem probably couldn't handle Serini, a high-level rogue, too.
    Last edited by Jason; 2022-05-01 at 10:46 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    The gem has a limitation - it has to be worth 1,00 gp [sic] for every hit die of the creature whose soul is to be bound. Considering it has a high-level druid and wizard in it already the gem probably couldn't handle Serini, a high-level rogue, too.
    The gem was obviously capable of holding both Lirian and Dorukan, and Xykon's interaction with Serini happened before his battle with Dorukan.
    There must be some sense of order - personal, political or dramatic - and if no one else is going to bring it to this world, I will.

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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Xykon doesn't kill people. Xykon cast "meteor swarm" on them, sometime more then once. Or other fire spell. Sometimes lightning. Simply most of the times there is no difference between killing someone and strike them down with superior magic power, it is important only on very high level characters like Serini.

    Everyone Xykon tryed to kill is someone the lich hated, like Lirian who defeated and mocked him, Dorukan who mocked him too, Eugene's master who was kinda "racist" against him as a sorcerer, and Vaarsuvius who thought to be better then him just because she had even more superior magic power then him, but just because of a trick.

    For all other people, Xykon uses his violence and he doesn't care about them after.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Synesthesy View Post
    Xykon doesn't kill people. Xykon cast "meteor swarm" on them, sometime more then once. Or other fire spell. Sometimes lightning. Simply most of the times there is no difference between killing someone and strike them down with superior magic power, it is important only on very high level characters like Serini.

    Everyone Xykon tryed to kill is someone the lich hated, like Lirian who defeated and mocked him, Dorukan who mocked him too, Eugene's master who was kinda "racist" against him as a sorcerer, and Vaarsuvius who thought to be better then him just because she had even more superior magic power then him, but just because of a trick.

    For all other people, Xykon uses his violence and he doesn't care about them after.
    That's why I added "was it stupidy alone" as a possibility.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    "Hey, look! I made a three-eighthsling!" screams to me he gravely injured her for the lols and wasn't particularly worried if she lived or died.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Also, that spell he used was most probably Blackfire, a spell that doesn't kill its victim instantly and instead makes them suffer atrociously for a few rounds before that. Xykon wasn't gonna wait for Serini to stop burning to make sure she was dead. In his mind, there probably was absolutely no way for a class with low Fortitude to make three Fortitude saves in a row. On top of it, no one can help her without being burned alive as well, and if she dies, she's reduced to ashes and requires true rez plus a CL check to be resurrected (CL check DC 30, so higher than most, if not all current casters in the world could manage at the time). Reduced to ashes in the middle of a forest where nobody knows she even is, and requiring a 9th level spell to be resurrected, and even then, it's not even sure? There really is no point to bind her soul at that point, and Xykon wasn't doing that if it meant staying there for the minute it would take for Serini to die.

    Serini got insanely lucky to be able to shake off the blackfire. In any other circumstance (what are the odds of making three DC 27+ checks with around +10 Fortitude (+7 from levels, +2 from Con, maybe +1 from items) before you die from Con loss? Not high.), she would have died. Xykon didn't leave Serini free, he left her for dead.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Xykon seems to save the Soul Binding for people who really annoy him. Lirian for taking his power and then forcing him to go undead, and then Dorukan for pushing his "wizards are superior to sorcerers" button.
    Serini simply didn't annoy him enough.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    Serini got insanely lucky to be able to shake off the blackfire.
    Lucky? No.

    Friendship is magic.



    Especially when those friends are green and have regenerative powers.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by JonahFalcon View Post
    "Hey, look! I made a three-eighthsling!" screams to me he gravely injured her for the lols and wasn't particularly worried if she lived or died.
    This. Along with his other comments elsewhere, he appears to have a low opinion of non-casters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    Also, that spell he used was most probably Blackfire, a spell that doesn't kill its victim instantly and instead makes them suffer atrociously for a few rounds before that. Xykon wasn't gonna wait for Serini to stop burning to make sure she was dead. In his mind, there probably was absolutely no way for a class with low Fortitude to make three Fortitude saves in a row. On top of it, no one can help her without being burned alive as well, and if she dies, she's reduced to ashes and requires true rez plus a CL check to be resurrected (CL check DC 30, so higher than most, if not all current casters in the world could manage at the time). Reduced to ashes in the middle of a forest where nobody knows she even is, and requiring a 9th level spell to be resurrected, and even then, it's not even sure? There really is no point to bind her soul at that point, and Xykon wasn't doing that if it meant staying there for the minute it would take for Serini to die.

    Serini got insanely lucky to be able to shake off the blackfire. In any other circumstance (what are the odds of making three DC 27+ checks with around +10 Fortitude (+7 from levels, +2 from Con, maybe +1 from items) before you die from Con loss? Not high.), she would have died. Xykon didn't leave Serini free, he left her for dead.
    As an epic halfling rogue she was probably extremely lucky I'd say
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Why did Xykon left Serini free? (SoD spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by JonahFalcon View Post
    Lucky? No.

    Friendship is magic.

    Especially when those friends are green and have regenerative powers.
    Now I'm picturing Serini struggling to even move to find the trolls, using each round where she is not nauseated by the blackfire to use one of her many magic items to restore some of her Constitution and survive a few rounds longer in hope of finding her friends, to finally get to them with next to no Con left and waking up as a half troll. Poor girl really went through hell, no wonder she's so traumatized by the bony guy. Praise the Elements of Harmony that friendship will always prevail.
    Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-05-10 at 05:20 PM.
    Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!

    Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    3.5 allows you to optimize into godhood, yes, but far more importantly, it lets you optimize weak, weird, and niche options into relevance.

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