Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

[Manga Shoggoth]

Welcome to the latest installment of discussion threads for Questionable Content, a M-F"slice of life" comic in which life is defined by coffee, robots, Butts Disease, and spontaneous metal interludes.

You have been warned.

Links To The Past
Questionable Content 1
Questionable Content 2: Espresso With Extra Scorn
Questionable Content 3: Ironically Quite Popular
Questionable Content 4: Attack of the 60-Inch AnthroPC
Questionable Content 5: Suffers Occasional Outbreaks of Butt's Disease
Questionable Content 6: Murder Mode
Questionable Content 7: Will Work For Makeouts
Questionable Content 8: OMG I SHIP IT!
Questionable Content 9: To Kill a Yelling Bird
Questionable Content 10: La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo
Questionable Content 11: It's Like Seeing a Unicorn
Questionable Content 12: Artificial Unintelligence
Questionable Content 13: It's YOU Who Is The Dork!
Questionable Content 14: I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem
Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt
Questionable Content XVII: "My Brain Is Trash And I Live On The Internet"
Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

[The Glyphstone]

I feel like we might need to update the intro text at some point. There's still plenty of robots and Butts Disease, but very little coffee, and music of any kind, let alone spontaneous metal interludes, has disappeared entirely.

[georgie_leech]

I was still kind of rooting for Avatar of Ignorance, but this one is good too.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I feel like we might need to update the intro text at some point. There's still plenty of robots and Butts Disease, but very little coffee, and music of any kind, let alone spontaneous metal interludes, has disappeared entirely.

I'm quite happy to edit the post - I just went with what Wraith had previously.

[Mechalich]

If Roko named names in her 'epic rant' I find Nelson's assertion that they probably won't get sued highly dubious.

[Delicious Taffy]

I was gonna ask when Roko got popular enough online for something like this to get traction. Then I remembered it's Millefeuille who was streaming, the one who entered the room bragging about how big her ass is, a trait which I'm told easily exploited to get views online, and it makes perfect sense.

[Maryring]

If Roko named names in her 'epic rant' I find Nelson's assertion that they probably won't get sued highly dubious.

Why? There's no cause. She's not a media outlet. She's a person ranting in a private setting, where someone else put her frustrations online. I know we're in the darkest timeline and all, but civil rights haven't been that eroded yet. If anyone is in trouble it's Millefeuille for streaming Roko online without consent. (Even if Roko had said it's okay at some point, it only came up after they were drunk and you can't proper consent if you're somehow impaired).

If anything, it's more a lesson in "don't stream your friends while drunk".

[Wraith]

I'm quite happy to edit the post - I just went with what Wraith had previously.

Don't blame me, I stole it from John Cribati.

Why? There's no cause. She's not a media outlet. She's a person ranting in a private setting, where someone else put her frustrations online. I know we're in the darkest timeline and all, but civil rights haven't been that eroded yet.

If I were to get drunk and make a curse-laden rant that went viral on the internet, I could very much expect to be pulled in by HR where I work and asked to explain my conduct. There's 'private setting', and there's also 'being identifiable as belonging to this business and having my actions associated with them, even tenuously'. Doubly so if the rant was about one of the clients with whom my business is associated - they'd rightfully want to know why my company allowed their employees to bad-mouth them on social media, and what they intended to do about it? This isn't conjecture - people have lost their jobs over this very thing.

Given that Roko is the lead manager for the non-profit that doesn't have an HR department, I can see how suing her could well be a viable alternative, especially if the business is as sketchy and unpleasant as they have been made out to be so far. Hell, they could sue her even if what she said was true and could prove it - she's worked here for what, a couple of weeks? At an organisation dependant on charity? What are they going to do, go to the wall in legal fees and court appearances for someone who, in a real business, would still be on probation?

Not that it will come to that, by the looks of things. The Internet has decided to mobilise on her behalf, so I am going to assume what happens next is that a bunch of people turn up and solve the problem for her by boycotting/cancelling the offending business into submission.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Why? There's no cause. She's not a media outlet. She's a person ranting in a private setting, where someone else put her frustrations online. I know we're in the darkest timeline and all, but civil rights haven't been that eroded yet. If anyone is in trouble it's Millefeuille for streaming Roko online without consent. (Even if Roko had said it's okay at some point, it only came up after they were drunk and you can't proper consent if you're somehow impaired).

If anything, it's more a lesson in "don't stream your friends while drunk".

I would like to introduce you to the SLAPP.

They don't need to sue her for libel, they just need to have literally any grievance, however minor, and try to bankrupt her.

[hungrycrow]

Not that it will come to that, by the looks of things. The Internet has decided to mobilise on her behalf, so I am going to assume what happens next is that a bunch of people turn up and solve the problem for her by boycotting/cancelling the offending business into submission.

Thank goodness! Then some AI will be able to form a union of itself and collectively bargain on its own behalf!

[Mechalich]

I would like to introduce you to the SLAPP.

They don't need to sue her for libel, they just need to have literally any grievance, however minor, and try to bankrupt her.

In this case they have the grievance of 'being accused of a crime' because that's what Roko just did - she accused them of criminal labor law violations (again, if she named names, which isn't clear). And, because criminal union-busting is extremely difficult to prove in court, the company can very easily argue she made a false accusation, which is absolutely something you can sue over. Winning, after all, isn't necessary, since they can crush Roko's tiny NGO under ruinous court fees.

[Wraith]

Thank goodness! Then some AI will be able to form a union of itself and collectively bargain on its own behalf!

In fairness to Jeph, forming a Union is more than just a group of people saying that they have decided to unionize. A Union is a legal entity unto itself, almost like a corporation - it has rights and special laws in place to dictate how they can act and interact with other groups, so "forming a Union" conveys special protections and privileges on this within it. Retaliating against a single worker is one thing, but retaliating against a Union is way more serious - just because its small, doesn't change the fact that it carries federal weight with it.

Even the Union consisting of one AI isn't entirely outrageous - a Union just has to represent a sizable proportion of the workforce, not even most of it, and if the oppressed AI in question is *the entire workforce* because it is the entire production line then... sure, why not? Sounds silly, but this arc is about AI civil rights so they might as well start somewhere?

I just hope I was wrong about The Internet mobilizing and solving the problem. The last couple of arcs involving Roko/the non-profit have all ended when some rich and/or powerful benefactor steps in and volunteers to solve the problem for them at short notice and zero conflict - Yay donating billions to charity, in-universe-Elon Musk offering to build cheap and sustainable bodies, in-universe-Albert Einstein volunteering to sponsor a pro-Body Act, The Internet answering a viral donation drive for May's body - that it would almost be a shame if within a couple of days the sketchy company had seen Roko's rant, their hearts grew three sizes on the spot, and all was forgiven overnight, instead of some actual world-building and exploration of the AI's right going on, y'know?

[The Glyphstone]

Sadly,that's not the type of story Jeph likes to tell. He got his jokes in so now he's wrapping the arc up with a Deus Ex Robotica.

[Daywalker1983]

More robot Drama... Maybe we will See faye again

[Morquard]

No, I'm with Millie here, that was 100% her fault.

[Rodin]

Sadly,that's not the type of story Jeph likes to tell. He got his jokes in so now he's wrapping the arc up with a Deus Ex Robotica.

It's not just getting the jokes in. He's inserted a Big Bad Evil Corporation solely to make the incredibly unsubtle point "Unions are good and corporations are bad, Mmmm'kay?"

Notice how we haven't seen a single dissenting viewpoint here? Or spoken to the AI that's having problems or seen a single company representative?

That's because Jeph doesn't want a nuanced storyline, he wants political grandstanding. Which still has no place in the comic even if the indy music and coffee shop are increasingly absent.

Roko getting drunk and having a bad social media moment? I'm down for that. That's a fun storyline you could muck about with, especially if you had a reasonably sympathetic antagonist on the other end of the rant that Roko would have to go and deal with. It doesn't even have to be about the AI rights organization - she could have told an indiscreet story about Yay that caused tension in their relationship.

But there is no other side here. Just McEvil. Because Jeph can't stop himself from forcing serious issues into his comic when he isn't prepared to think about said issues even a little bit.

[Delicious Taffy]

Legal stuff, whatever, nobody wants to read about a court case in a semi-comedic robot comic written by a guy with fleeting pet topics. Next month it'll be some kind of animal-care kerfuffle or like, an underground society of professional Puppy Racer players with a moral about the dangers of competitive sports.

Melon doing something stupid and catching fire, that's the interesting part of all this. I wanna see the funny robot girls do funny robot stuff, with a human nearby to question weirder bits.

[Mechalich]

It's not just getting the jokes in. He's inserted a Big Bad Evil Corporation solely to make the incredibly unsubtle point "Unions are good and corporations are bad, Mmmm'kay?"

Notice how we haven't seen a single dissenting viewpoint here? Or spoken to the AI that's having problems or seen a single company representative?

Considering this perspective, not a single member of the QC core cast works for a large corporation, and there hasn't been one since Marten got fired from his nameless office job ages ago. QC characters work for independent businesses, academic institutions, the government, or are self-employed, but they just don't work for large companies. The only exception is Hanner's Mom, who is so cartoonish in her evil she can be used in Dune parodies.

Even if Jeph had a solid understanding of the issues of corporate governance, unionization, and so forth, QC would be poorly positioned to discuss them because it has no characters properly positioned to do so.

[Rodin]

Legal stuff, whatever, nobody wants to read about a court case in a semi-comedic robot comic written by a guy with fleeting pet topics. Next month it'll be some kind of animal-care kerfuffle or like, an underground society of professional Puppy Racer players with a moral about the dangers of competitive sports.

Melon doing something stupid and catching fire, that's the interesting part of all this. I wanna see the funny robot girls do funny robot stuff, with a human nearby to question weirder bits.

Considering this perspective, not a single member of the QC core cast works for a large corporation, and there hasn't been one since Marten got fired from his nameless office job ages ago. QC characters work for independent businesses, academic institutions, the government, or are self-employed, but they just don't work for large companies. The only exception is Hanner's Mom, who is so cartoonish in her evil she can be used in Dune parodies.

Even if Jeph had a solid understanding of the issues of corporate governance, unionization, and so forth, QC would be poorly positioned to discuss them because it has no characters properly positioned to do so.

Which is why I wish he'd stop introducing these topics in the first place. You can't write about AI civil rights without going into real civil rights, and if you're going to go into civil rights the topic needs to be handled with the care it deserves.

Hannelore's mother works because (as far as I can recall) the actions of her company are never glanced at or used as part of a storyline. Her mother acts a certain way because she is a Big Business Exec, and that's literally all we need to know for the story. What matters is how that outlook influences the way she treats Hannelore, and the way Hannelore reacts to that treatment. It's character drama, not political drama.

The problem I've had with Roko for some time now is that she's the mouthpiece for Jeph's politics. Cops are bad, having lots of wealth is bad, post-prison support sucks...etc etc. It's hard to look at any storyline involving her without seeing the underlying motive. Which is a shame, because she's otherwise one of the better written characters.

[Wraith]

Considering this perspective, not a single member of the QC core cast works for a large corporation, and there hasn't been one since Marten got fired from his nameless office job ages ago.

Marten, Tai and Momo work for a university. The one I work for has an annual turnover of close to a billion dollars, so thinking of SMIF as a benevolent non-corporation is very much missing a chance to be relatable. Just imagine if this were all happening not to an unnamed AI bystander and a faceless, undescribed company that hadn't existed until now and will disappear when this arc concludes, but instead to Momo? I can't help but feel that we'd care about that just a tiny little bit more.

The problem I've had with Roko for some time now is that she's the mouthpiece for Jeph's politics. Cops are bad, having lots of wealth is bad, post-prison support sucks...etc etc.

Unless you get your billionaire friend to donate incredible amounts of money to charity on a whim. Or have an Elon Musk-expy vow to develop the cheap and sustainable AI bodies that you want. Or a guy who owns a space station to endorse the laws you want endorsed after one phone-call.

I'm otherwise broadly on-board for those politics, if only Jeph would stop immediately undermining them and disproving his own point.

[Willie the Duck]

No, I'm with Millie here, that was 100% her fault.

Agreed. Deciding to pressure your friend into drinking past the point in which they are comfortable, and then (once they are too inebriated to properly consent) broadcasting the results to the world at large is just plain awful behavior.

I'm otherwise broadly on-board for those politics, if only Jeph would stop immediately undermining them and disproving his own point.

I think the people who were genuinely offended that Jeph's political positions exist have jumped ship, so the fact that the rest of us still grumble and gripe every time he decides to jump back on the soapbox speaks to how poorly he does so. I think it was MaxKilljoy who said (paraphrased) 'he's not good at speaking about politics, and worst still he's trying to shoehorn his strip (not designed for said purpose) into the role of his political mouthpiece.'

[Shogo]

Yeah. The idea of unionizing workers doesn't bother me. The problem is that the situation Jeph has constructed, even with AI shenanigans, just falls apart to me the moment any real thought is applied.

As I've said previously, I just don't buy any situation in which this assembly line could reasonably be considered to be the AI's body. There's no way this company built equipment vital to their ability to produce whatever it is they produce under the expectation that it would be the body through which an AI expresses its personhood. It's way too much of a risk to their profit margins to gamble on the AI never deciding it wants to do something different. Among other possibilities that would backfire just from the need to build an entirely new factory and assembly line if you couldn't come to terms.

If anything, the assembly line would be a piece of equipment that the company allows their AI employee to operate.

Or, as I had put it, this comes across as a forklift operator arbitrarily deciding that a company forklift belongs to them personally. It certainly doesn't feel like a legitimate civil rights issue. It just requires too much braindead nonsense.

[Mechalich]

Or, as I had put it, this comes across as a forklift operator arbitrarily deciding that a company forklift belongs to them personally. It certainly doesn't feel like a legitimate civil rights issue. It just requires too much braindead nonsense.

AI forklift would have actually made much more sense. Or actually, Jeph should have just done this storyline using Crushbot.

[VoxRationis]

As I've said previously, I just don't buy any situation in which this assembly line could reasonably be considered to be the AI's body. There's no way this company built equipment vital to their ability to produce whatever it is they produce under the expectation that it would be the body through which an AI expresses its personhood. It's way too much of a risk to their profit margins to gamble on the AI never deciding it wants to do something different. Among other possibilities that would backfire just from the need to build an entirely new factory and assembly line if you couldn't come to terms.

If anything, the assembly line would be a piece of equipment that the company allows their AI employee to operate.

Except that it would not be difficult for the company to arrange a situation where the factory machinery is the first and only body the AI has ever occupied, and the fact that a judge is likely to see it the way you do in your last sentence makes it unlikely that they'll lose their factory. Replacing a normal workforce with an employee whose entire existence is contained within company property is a huge win for the company as far as their ability to exert control over the workforce goes, to say nothing of the payroll advantage. It's absolutely worth the risk if the company takes the time to set things up properly.

[Rodin]

AI forklift would have actually made much more sense. Or actually, Jeph should have just done this storyline using Crushbot.

Or even reintroduce Jeremy, who is having some sort of corporate/legal pressure put on the robot fighting ring. He gets to bring back Seven and Punchbot. He gets to do a "where are they now" sort of storyline exploring the fallout of Yay's forcing a Deus Ex Robotica through the legal system and why that might not have been an ideal solution. Introduce some antagonists and build that story up slowly over the course of some weeks and then we get this climax where Roko makes the situation exponentially worse. It could have been a whole THING.

[Eldan]

Right, so it is just going to be fine. Because in this world, the law doesn't work like that.

[Mechalich]

Right, so it is just going to be fine. Because in this world, the law doesn't work like that.

The level of utopianism in the current strip is indeed mighty. The funny thing is, it might not be unreasonable, in-universe. For example, if AIs have the vote, and if there are a significant number of them, and we're ~3-4 presidential cycles into the post-singularity version of the universe a massive political shift would not only be possible, but likely - and since AI were awarded civil rights in the QC universe, the direction of said shift has been pre-determined. Unfortunately, those are all unanswered questions. We don't know if AIs can vote or not, we don't know how many AIs there are nationally or globally even in the most general terms, and we don't know how long it has been since the singularity.

There's just not enough data to take a plot like this and assess whether it makes any sense at all.

[Keltest]

Right, so it is just going to be fine. Because in this world, the law doesn't work like that.

Why not? This reads like Nelson is effectively blackmailing them to keep their legal team at bay, while the court of public opinion has motivated them to let the union go through. They probably arent big enough to eat that kind of negative press for the time it would take to blow over. The problem wouldnt really show up until the next time they tried to negotiate with a group and their reputation for scorched earth tactics means they wont be allowed to get anywhere near the property.

[Delicious Taffy]

If a single drunken rant clip can cause this much of a change, why don't they become political vloggers and just call out the crummy businesses that way? Or at least have someone who does that on the side. Like, we've already seen two examples of the cast becoming ludicrously popular online without any prior establishing moments, and now Roko has an excuse to have at least a small audience who're willing to follow her.

[The Glyphstone]

It felt like old QC for a bit, but old QC would have thrown in a Spontaneous Metal Interlude or Fairy Girl running through the office, just to remind us that the drama comes second to the slice of life general zaniness. Now it feels like the zany moments are interludes between drama.