A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #361
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Question: Why do AIs need a physical library, let alone a super-advanced cube-shaped one? They have the entire internet inside their head, including every book ever printed, and more besides.

    Similarly, why do AIs need a novice, human librarian to work at the library that they don't need? They have the entire internet inside their head, including floor-plan and a detailed instruction on the dewey decimal system.
    The message Claire got looks like it's leading to another 'Who knows? They're WaAackY!' personality, so there probably is not actually a sensible reason why they invited Claire specifically. That is not the communication style of an individual that has sound business-related reasons to do things.

  2. - Top - End - #362
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicious Taffy View Post
    Unmarried people can't move in together in Canada? That's strange.
    He has no skills and no job waiting for him. Probably also no substantial savings. If he's married, he can emigrate as Claire's partner, but probably not if they are unmarried.
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  3. - Top - End - #363
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    He has no skills and no job waiting for him. Probably also no substantial savings. If he's married, he can emigrate as Claire's partner, but probably not if they are unmarried.
    I sometimes forget that you can't really just move to another country on a whim like moving from state to state. It makes sense, though.

  4. - Top - End - #364
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by geoduck View Post
    Pretty sure he can't emigrate to Canada with no job of his own waiting for him. Living arrangements once there aren't an issue.
    He works in a library too, so Claire could organize a job for him, carrying around files in the digital library or something.

  5. - Top - End - #365
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    It wouldnt be crazy if the floating cube or whatever it is also has a hardcopy library as backups or storing for historical purposes that requires a librarian to sort, record, and care for submissions. Honestly, it sounds like it could be a great job once the initial deluge of work is done. Mostly quiet work dusting shelves and recording whatever latest books were dropped off and storing them where they belong. Sometimes having to grab a specific tome as needed. As for the time skip, it may be jeph wanting to skip right to the wedding and house buying and other such parts because he had nothing else planned storywise to fill time before then. Or at least, skipping to a specific part of home buying and ignoring the open house vists, the paperwork for buying one, the banking involved (assuming she cant just cut a check herself) and is going right to the moving part of things and the house warming.
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  6. - Top - End - #366
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  7. - Top - End - #367
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Maybe the AIs are developed a new archival data framework designed to have equal ease of use by both humans and AIs and they desire the perspective of a freshly minted librarian for this purpose?
    Sounds like the sort of thing for which you'd want an experienced librarian who has been around a bit, seen a bunch of stuff, and can offer you expert advice on your practices by comparing them to the other ones that they have seen over a long illustrious career so as to refine and innovate your own procedures.

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon
    The message Claire got looks like it's leading to another 'Who knows? They're WaAackY!' personality, so there probably is not actually a sensible reason why they invited Claire specifically. That is not the communication style of an individual that has sound business-related reasons to do things.
    Ah, of course. Random Wacky Benefactor pisses good fortune upon the designated protagonist from the ether, just like Marigold's instant success, May's Elon-Musk-esque benefactor, and Aurelia's apparently pop-up fandom. Why let something as stupid as 'logic' or 'reasons' get in the way of a goo-... of a story?
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  8. - Top - End - #368
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Eh, about 80% of AI stuff in QC is just "blue people who plug into walls"

    We've seen a LOT of evidence that AI's get a lot of value from unnecessarily mimicking human culture and social experiences, even going to bars to drink "Robot Beers".


    Which is to say, a community full of AI's might value having a human librarian to give them the experience of "Going to a Library". They might enjoy the experience of perusing shelves, picking out a book based on the cover alone, asking a librarian for recommendations, ect.

    There may also be other humans there who value having access to a physical library instead of just pulling EBooks onto tablets, if only as a community space.
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  9. - Top - End - #369
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Heh, so now I'm imagining that Claire thinks she is being interviewed to come to this high-tech super-library and put her degree to use, only to be offered the job of a renaissance faire actor "making it real" for the AI tourists.

    Which, frankly, is a lot closer to using her degree than I got to using mine. I'm not bitter you're bitter.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2022-08-10 at 02:40 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #370
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    Eh, about 80% of AI stuff in QC is just "blue people who plug into walls"

    We've seen a LOT of evidence that AI's get a lot of value from unnecessarily mimicking human culture and social experiences, even going to bars to drink "Robot Beers".


    Which is to say, a community full of AI's might value having a human librarian to give them the experience of "Going to a Library". They might enjoy the experience of perusing shelves, picking out a book based on the cover alone, asking a librarian for recommendations, ect.

    There may also be other humans there who value having access to a physical library instead of just pulling EBooks onto tablets, if only as a community space.
    That is a fair thought as well. I mean, if we can have robots sexually aroused by fresh bread, why not bibliophile robots who get all steamy and go fweet at the sight of shelf after shelf after SHELF of well organized BOOOOOKS AAAANH! Sorry... I dont know what came over me. But yeah seriously, it wouldnt surprise me if the novelty of physically holding the knowledge is something a number of AIs would find a positive experience.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Sounds like the sort of thing for which you'd want an experienced librarian who has been around a bit, seen a bunch of stuff, and can offer you expert advice on your practices by comparing them to the other ones that they have seen over a long illustrious career so as to refine and innovate your own procedures.
    You'd probably want both those things. Older scientists (and yes library science is a science) tend to be very set in their ways and attached to doing things a certain way. If you're dealing with a revolutionary new setup taking advice only from the old guard is a poor choice.

    Now Claire isn't exactly a great choice in this regard since she's hardly assertive or innovative. Tai - the woman who allowed part of the library to be turned into a rave that time - would make much more sense.
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  12. - Top - End - #372
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Is it weird that I couldn't put my fingers on what's "wrong" with Dora in todays comic until Jeph pointed it out for me?
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  13. - Top - End - #373
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    You'd probably want both those things. Older scientists (and yes library science is a science) tend to be very set in their ways and attached to doing things a certain way. If you're dealing with a revolutionary new setup taking advice only from the old guard is a poor choice.
    Eh, I suppose as a hand-wave it's fine. As a hiring intent, "We're new and progressive, so we want someone young and energetic to work for us!" is a perfectly plausible.

    It's also wrong. We can all see how it's wrong, right? Stereotyping young and older people alike? But then it is something run by a QC-based AI, so "they're making a terrible mistake based on an incorrect assumption" isn't actually out of character...

    Very good point about Tai, however. Almost like SHE could go to Cubeland to be the fun, hip and trendy librarian and have Dora open up a shop in Canada, just like they already discussed a few years ago, so that Claire can step up into Tai's role....

    Which brings us today's comic, in which Claire realises that she might be transgressing Marten's boundaries and comfort for her own benefit, and so chooses to seek advice from the one person in the comic who obliterated their relationship with Marten by repeatedly violating his boundaries and ignoring his comfort for her own benefit.

    I'm going to pretend it's one of those "ask Dora what she would do, so that you know that the correct answer is to do the exact opposite" conversations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordokai View Post
    Is it weird that I couldn't put my fingers on what's "wrong" with Dora in todays comic until Jeph pointed it out for me?
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    Last edited by Wraith; 2022-08-11 at 06:55 AM.
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  14. - Top - End - #374
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Which brings us today's comic, in which Claire realises that she might be transgressing Marten's boundaries and comfort for her own benefit, and so chooses to seek advice from the one person in the comic who obliterated their relationship with Marten by repeatedly violating his boundaries and ignoring his comfort for her own benefit.

    I'm going to pretend it's one of those "ask Dora what she would do, so that you know that the correct answer is to do the exact opposite" conversations.
    Yeah, it's not like Dora could have changed since then or learned from past experiences or anything. That would be crazy!
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Well, therein lies the question. Has she? About five years ago she went to see a therapist, once, and spent all of it complaining and getting offended that anyone would dare suggest that she is the cause of many of her own problems. About 4 years ago, the punchline of at least one comic was how she hadn't been going to therapy because she felt fine, and didn't think she needed it until things started going wrong again. Since then... Nothing?

    Until today, when she's advising Claire to prioritize herself, and shuts down Clinton when he points out that there's plenty of time to discuss it. Not necessarily great indicators of improved empathy.

    I'm NOT saying that Dora is a bad person, or that she doesn't have a modicum of a point, or that development couldn't have happened. I AM saying that we haven't seen much evidence if it has, and that its mostly moot because Claire needs to talk to exactly one person about it, and that is Marten.

    Besides, we all know that Dora COULDN'T have made any significant personal changes anyway, since she hasn't been anywhere NEAR a yak or even a pitchfork.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2022-08-11 at 12:23 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #376
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Well, therein lies the question. Has she? About five years ago she went to see a therapist, once, and spent all of it complaining and getting offended that anyone would dare suggest that she is the cause of many of her own problems. About 4 years ago, the punchline of at least one comic was how she hadn't been going to therapy because she felt fine, and didn't think she needed it until things started going wrong again. Since then... Nothing?

    Until today, when she's advising Claire to prioritize herself,
    Dora has messed up a lot and is not the most reasonable person in the cast by any metric. I still think this is a profoundly uncharitable read of the situation.

    Claire's very shy and unwilling to speak up for herself or advocate for her own needs. Dora isn't encouraging her to freaking murder Marten and run away to Nova Scotia tomorrow: she's saying it's unhealthy to outright reject any futures that require a compromise from your partner, even if they'd be a fantastic opportunity for you. It's not even about actually taking the job: it's about getting Claire to even consider doing the right thing for her own needs if it came to that, or even just talk to her partner about the decision.

    I know people like this in real life, who are so terrified of imposing on anyone else that they rarely if ever actually do what's right for them.

    and shuts down Clinton when he points out that there's plenty of time to discuss it. Not necessarily great indicators of improved empathy.
    Oh, give me a break. They're both clearly reacting to him ending that otherwise reasonable thought with "she's gonna totally blow the interview."

    I legitimately can't understand how you'd interpret that as "hurry up and decide right now, without Marten's input, ignore everything Clinton says."

    Claire needs to talk to exactly one person about it, and that is Marten.
    Claire is bad at talking to Marten about this stuff. And Marten's no champ at it either. Remember when she was freaking out about her exams and it took Pintsize smacking Marten with a novelty-size dildo to get him to wake the hell up and realize his girlfriend was trying to talk to him about important stuff?

    Yes, Marten is the main person she needs to talk to about this opportunity. But her prior difficulties in doing so mean that it makes sense she needs encouragement and guidance from her current boss to psych herself up for that conversation. It is really weird to try spinning that totally normal interaction into being somehow about how terrible the advice-giver is at relationships.
    Last edited by Ionathus; 2022-08-11 at 04:55 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #377
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Well, therein lies the question. Has she? About five years ago she went to see a therapist, once, and spent all of it complaining and getting offended that anyone would dare suggest that she is the cause of many of her own problems. About 4 years ago, the punchline of at least one comic was how she hadn't been going to therapy because she felt fine, and didn't think she needed it until things started going wrong again. Since then... Nothing?
    You do realize that even your incredibly negative reading of the second one absolutely requires that Dora went to therapy regularly for some time, right?
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    This, in a nutshell.
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  18. - Top - End - #378
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    You do realize that even your incredibly negative reading of the second one absolutely requires that Dora went to therapy regularly for some time, right?
    Does it? We know Dora was getting started on it, but I dont know that we ever actually got any confirmation that she committed to it being a regular thing. Just because you use your gym membership the first week of the new years doesnt mean you actually went long enough to get any benefit from it.
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  19. - Top - End - #379
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Which brings us today's comic, in which Claire realises that she might be transgressing Marten's boundaries and comfort for her own benefit, and so chooses to seek advice from the one person in the comic who obliterated their relationship with Marten by repeatedly violating his boundaries and ignoring his comfort for her own benefit.
    That's not even close to what's going on in today's comic.

    Claire is worried about the possibility that she'll get this job, Marten will move with her to stay with her in this new job, and he'll then be miserable and wish that he hadn't done so. She's not worried about transgressing his boundaries so much as she's worried about the fact that Marten doesn't actually know what's waiting if he moves to a different place and Claire doesn't know either. So she's painting a picture of catastrophe in her head in a situation that is not yet actually merited, and Dora is advocating for Claire that she shouldn't discard this entire opportunity out of hand because she's worried about a hypothetical scenario in which things turn sour with Marten.

    Marten's boundaries aren't being trampled on here; Claire is being told not to just discard the possibility when she's gotten an exciting new opportunity because it could cause problems in her relationship. Because this is Claire and she has a tendency to jump ahead to worst-case scenarios pretty commonly. It's a regular and consistent thing for Claire even though she ought to know better by now.

    Also, as someone who really doesn't much like how Dora and Marten's relationship ended, feels like it was really authorial fiat, and has never really felt like Dora and Tai were anything more than a mashed-together couple that didn't really make a whole lot of sense? No, Dora did not single-handedly torpedo her relationship with Marten. Yes, her insecurities and issues were definitely a big dang problem and led to the blow-up, but it was Marten who escalated things and decided to make what was honestly a pretty minor thing into a wedge that ruined their relationship. It was Marten who said that he was sick of her apologies. It was Marten who ultimately kept treating Dora's biggest insecurity that he was only with her because he couldn't be with Faye as an "ugh, are you still on that?" instead of a serious problem.

    Leaving aside the fact that both Dora and Marten have said multiple times that they are happier with their current partners than they were together and have moved on, repaired their friendship, and aren't bitter about the situation. Characterizing Dora eternally as the woman who ruined a good relationship for dumb reasons is ultimately missing the point of everyone's actions in context and kind of elides the fact that most of QC's cast is not terribly smart or emotionally stable. They're still getting there, it's a process, and Dora's not offering bad advice.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Mechanus View Post
    Claire is worried about the possibility that she'll get this job, Marten will move with her to stay with her in this new job, and he'll then be miserable and wish that he hadn't done so. She's not worried about transgressing his boundaries so much as she's worried about the fact that Marten doesn't actually know what's waiting if he moves to a different place and Claire doesn't know either. So she's painting a picture of catastrophe in her head in a situation that is not yet actually merited, and Dora is advocating for Claire that she shouldn't discard this entire opportunity out of hand because she's worried about a hypothetical scenario in which things turn sour with Marten.
    Actually, considering that Claire's hypothetical job offer is onboard a floating AI-controlled colony (rogue state?) this is perhaps a more reasonable fear than it seems. The situation is considerably more exotic than 'library job in Halifax, NS.'

    I actually think Clinton's right here, Claire is putting the cart before the horse. A job interview has, being quite generous, maybe a 50% chance of succeeding. And then Claire has to decide whether she wants to take the job at all - which if it were a normal library job would be a no-brainer, but again, floating AI colony. It's only after that where her relationship with Marten comes into play. It's certainly in character for Claire to get anxiety two steps ahead though.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Actually, considering that Claire's hypothetical job offer is onboard a floating AI-controlled colony (rogue state?) this is perhaps a more reasonable fear than it seems. The situation is considerably more exotic than 'library job in Halifax, NS.'
    I didn't say or imply that she was wrong in her assumption, just that she was jumping several steps ahead in her anxieties. Claire's fears don't tend to be implausible or unrealistic, they just tend to correspond to things several steps along the path that she isn't at yet. And Dora is (rightly) pointing out that she should at least take the interview and be open to the possibility. If this is what breaks her and Marten... well, that will be sad, but as much as she's worried that this change would make him miserable, not even trying would make her miserable.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

    Frankly, some of the cast have spent several weeks' worth of comics in space, Marten included. A floating library isn't really all that wild in the context of this series. The absolute worst case scenario I can think of here is that Claire gets the interview and moves to Canada but Marten wants to stay so he stays and it puts a damper on their relationship for a while until they adjust.

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