New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 3 of 28 FirstFirst 12345678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 817

Thread: The Book Thread

  1. - Top - End - #61
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wookieetank View Post
    Was considering looking at the Ready Player books, but not with that sort of nonsense.
    That's basically the sine qua non of the books' approach to culture.

    You know all that gatekeepy fan bull**** where how much trivial crap you can remember about things proves how much of a fan of them you are and if you don't remember all the trivial crap you're not a "real fan".

    That's those books. They exist to validate that approach to fandom.

    Like you'll be waiting for the twist where the protagonist is actually a complete hack ****weasel and the story finally makes him realise it, but it never comes because he's supposed to be a cool guy despite actually being a pretty ****ty person. (See: H)

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    I mean, those books are pretty transparent in what they're offering. If they're not for you just don't read them. It's like reading Romeo and Juliet and then complaining because you dislike Shakespeare. I don't like reference based media either, so I just don't consume those.

    It's a fair complaint for a lot of media, but Ready Player One pretty much tells you it's gonna just be a bunch of references right from the jump.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2022-09-12 at 07:16 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I mean, those books are pretty transparent in what they're offering. If they're not for you just don't read them. It's like reading Romeo and Juliet and then complaining because you dislike Shakespeare. I don't like reference based media either, so I just don't consume those.

    It's a fair complaint for a lot of media, but Ready Player One pretty much tells you it's gonna just be a bunch of references right from the jump.
    I don't hate nostalgia bait. Some of it (e.g. Breath of the Wild, sans final boss) is quite good. RPO was not good. It doesn't deserve any grace for hiding behind its "genre", if you can call it that - and I wouldn't.

    IMO, if a piece of media wants to significantly involve other, more popular media in its story, there should be a reason for that. It should *do* something with the reference. Make a new connection, find a parallel to your new story, or deepen the story, or transform it in some way. Otherwise you're just wallowing in stuff that other people made.

    And that's assuming that the writing is even good. Ernest Cline's writing ain't good. His characters were flat and the plot was straightforward, unimaginative wish fulfillment. There's a whole chapter/section where the main character (who is unhealthy and overweight at the start of the book) decides he should get into better shape, because it's always made things tough for him. And then he just...does. Basically overnight. No struggle, or introspection, or emotional reaction. Just a to-do list of "and then I bought exercise gear" "and then I exercised" "and then I was skinny and strong and attractive." Just a series of logistical steps. Which could have even worked ironically, if he'd taken a moment to go "wow, that was actually really easy" or "I'm scared by how easy this was" or even, gosh, I dunno, "wow, getting in shape is a lot easier now that I can afford this fancy VR rig that lets me get exercise while playing the OASIS. It's almost like rich people have more time and resources to take care of themselves." Anything. Any crumb of self-awareness or insight on the process. But instead, it just...happened. It was like a robot or a 10-year old wrote the prose.
    ----
    Astute readers may notice I said I "didn't hate" RPO in my first post on this topic. And that's true...at the time :P But every time I interact with it, I notice another new thing that irks me. Including this time, because BOY HOWDY does GloatingSwine's point about gatekeeping bother me in hindsight. The whole book is a gatekeeper's manifesto. Knowing obscure trivia about random crap that a single dude arbitrarily picked is literally the only qualifier to rule the world. Gah, yuck. I think I need to go have a lie down.
    Last edited by Ionathus; 2022-09-13 at 12:29 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I mean, those books are pretty transparent in what they're offering. If they're not for you just don't read them. It's like reading Romeo and Juliet and then complaining because you dislike Shakespeare. I don't like reference based media either, so I just don't consume those.

    It's a fair complaint for a lot of media, but Ready Player One pretty much tells you it's gonna just be a bunch of references right from the jump.
    Oh, I absolutely enjoyed part of them. But they are super transparent in their pandering. It's just pandering that panders to me. Or perhaps me as a 15 year old, but it still works.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I mean, those books are pretty transparent in what they're offering. If they're not for you just don't read them. It's like reading Romeo and Juliet and then complaining because you dislike Shakespeare. I don't like reference based media either, so I just don't consume those.

    It's a fair complaint for a lot of media, but Ready Player One pretty much tells you it's gonna just be a bunch of references right from the jump.
    RPO isn't even references. It's just lists!

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Troll in the Playground
     
    BisectedBrioche's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Some rainly old island
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    I just finished reading A Burglar's Guide to the City by Geoff Manaugh.

    It's a fascinating analysis of the way thieves interact with (and more importantly, misuse) the spaces everyone uses, as well as how law enforcement tries to play catch-up.

    It starts with a quick definition of burglary (as a legal term, it's pretty wild, and gets its own chapter), goes on to explain how thieves look for and exploit weaknesses in building, looks at the means (turns out actual thieves rarely use lockpicks), inside jobs, and finally wraps up with getaways (which is effectively the same concepts, applied to the entire city a building's located in).

    There's a final chapter on the cultural role of burglars and thieves.

    Definitely read it if you like stealth games, or just enjoy rolling rogues. =3
    Hi, I'm back, I guess. ^_^
    I cosplay and stream LPs of single player games on Twitch! Mon, Wed & Fri; currently playing: Nier: Replicant (Mon/Wed) and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons (Thurs or Fri)

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Gridania, Eorzea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Re: RPO
    Yeah that sounds like a whole bunch of not my cup of tea. Might pick up a Discworld novel for my obscure reading preferences instead.

    Made it through more of 20th Century Ghosts, think I'm gonna have to watch The Black Phone. I'm intrigued to see how well they take a rather straightforward short story and make it into a film. Still not a huge fan of Kafka, even in reference/homage (specifically The Metamorphosis). I get the whole social commentary of it, but just the feel of the style is very...off for me. Which is probably part of the point, but doesn't mean I have to enjoy it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    Dwarf Fortress would like to have a word with you. The word is decorated with bands of microcline and meanaces with spikes of rose gold. On the word is an image of the word in cinnabar.
    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
    This is an image of Wookietank the Destroyer of Fortresses engraved in sandstone. Wookietank the Destroyer of Fortresses is leaving Trotknives. Trotknives is on fire and full of goblins. This image refers to the destruction of Trotknives in late winter of 109 by Wookietank the Destroyer of Fortresses.

  8. - Top - End - #68
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    theangelJean's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    I just read two very different books: Painting Culture by Fred R. Myers and Talking to my Country by Stan Grant. (Apparently I'm on a social justice kick at the moment.) The first one was academic, dry and actually immensely informative. I feel like it would have made a great documentary film, if only we had the footage. The second was ... Worthwhile.

    Painting Culture: The Making of an Aboriginal High Art is about the history of how acrylic "dot" paintings by a particular group of artists in Central Australia came to be sought after, sourced, hung in prestigious galleries around the world and subsequently valued at high prices. (I certainly had not expected that it happened in that order.) It's written by an American anthropologist who was part of the community for a short while, in theory to study the culture of the artists themselves - to the point where at the time, he did not take pictures of the art they were making, and described it only through rudimentary sketches. There are great insights into how the artists viewed the process of painting, how the sale of the paintings was expected to support the community, how the culture being painted was adapted to artificial materials and presentation, their relationship with the individuals whose job it was to promote and sell their work on a government budget, how the sellers worked to change the classification from "anthropological artefact" to "modern art", and the formation of the organisations backing these individuals, in the context of the history of Australia. It was fascinating and very well referenced with many personal accounts, but it would need to be significantly dumbed down to reach "readable". I slogged through it and didn't finish it in the nine weeks I had it out from the library, and felt like I'd learned a lot all the same.

    Talking to my Country was extremely readable - you'd hope so, given the writer is a veteran journalist. The stories he tells of his family's history might be unknown to some, but personally I felt like I was just reading accounts of stories I already knew existed. Having made it to the end, it seems like the thesis was supposed to be "all Indigenous people share this history, and that is why [Indigenous public figure, not actually part of the book] responded to [events in 2015] by leaving the public sphere - he had just had enough". Which, while probably true, is not actually a logical conclusion of the book itself. But the individual stories were well told.
    I'm pretty much the opposite of concise. If I fail to get to the point, please ask me and I'm happy to (attempt to) clarify.

  9. - Top - End - #69
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    I’ve just finished Lost World of the Golden King, which despite its Indiana Jones title is a rather difficult academic book. Not for the writing, which is quite smooth and readable, but because it’s telling a very different story than the one I was looking for.

    The book is ostensibly about the history of Bactria, which was briefly the northeastern-most corner of Alexander’s empire, and which became a kingdom with all the trappings of Hellenistic culture centered in what is today northern Afghanistan and southern Uzbekistan.

    Unfortunately the book isn’t a straight narrative, nor even a discussion of the kingdom’s archaeology, nor even a discussion of the archaeology of coin finds. Instead it’s a detailed survey of the history of scholarship of coin finds and the changing views on how the Greco-Bactrian world was ruled, based on coin finds and the king lists which were rather imaginatively derived from them.

    I learned a fair amount about numismatics, as well as other things we can’t discuss here, and there is some very interesting discussion of how ancient coins were struck; but the author’s insistence on giving us obscure details of Greco-Bactrian numismatic scholarship made for a slog in places, and the history of the scholarship tended to obscure the history of the kingdom itself, which is what I was really motivated for.

    Two later chapters present, with much fanfare, the concept of a “cognitive map” of ancient minters and how that supposedly leads to insights on their perceptions of their world and culture; but despite the evident academic trendiness of this approach, those chapters ultimately had very little insight to offer. And the book’s conclusion was more of a truncated epilogue which also offered no great enlightenment.

    The book did give me a lot of good ideas for some projects I’m working on, and anyone who’s interested in ancient coins might find it worthwhile. But for anyone looking for an introductory survey of the kingdom’s history, as I was, should keep looking, as I am.

  10. - Top - End - #70
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I learned a fair amount about numismatics, as well as other things we can’t discuss here, and there is some very interesting discussion of how ancient coins were struck; but the author’s insistence on giving us obscure details of Greco-Bactrian numismatic scholarship made for a slog in places, and the history of the scholarship tended to obscure the history of the kingdom itself, which is what I was really motivated for.

    Two later chapters present, with much fanfare, the concept of a “cognitive map” of ancient minters and how that supposedly leads to insights on their perceptions of their world and culture; but despite the evident academic trendiness of this approach, those chapters ultimately had very little insight to offer. And the book’s conclusion was more of a truncated epilogue which also offered no great enlightenment.

    The book did give me a lot of good ideas for some projects I’m working on, and anyone who’s interested in ancient coins might find it worthwhile. But for anyone looking for an introductory survey of the kingdom’s history, as I was, should keep looking, as I am.
    My understanding of the subject is that for Greco-Bactria and a number of similar states in nearby Central Asian territories (ex. the Kushans) the coins are essentially all the history we have. The archeological evidence is limited and there are functionally zero written records, and there are hardly any outside chronicles prior to XUanzang in the 7th century.

    You might try Christoph Baumer's History of Central Asia (Vol 1), which is more focused on the archeological evidence and contains a spends a significant amount of its space covering Greco-Bactria.
    Now publishing a webnovel travelogue.

    Resvier: a P6 homebrew setting

  11. - Top - End - #71
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Nona the Ninth comes out in less than a week and I am losing my mind with anticipation. My partner's re-read Gideon and Harrow 4 times each.
    Finished Nona the Ninth. It was a trip and a half. Did you know cows exhibit mourning behavior?

    The Locked Tomb series has been a rollercoaster so far. Gideon the Ninth was a mostly-straightforward romp of swords and sorcery with a sarcastic edge, and then Harrow the Ninth was totally different, like some sort of melancholic reflection domestic drama with occasional necromancy, and now Nona the Ninth was pretty much just a constant brainmelter.

    Best book series I've read in...maybe ever.
    Last edited by Ionathus; 2022-09-20 at 09:38 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #72
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Melayl's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    In my own little world...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Ooof, now we're dealing with Sherwood's identity (I've got the hints of who he is related to, but not who he fully is), and I'm a bit "whhhhyyyyyyy". I trust Patty enough to know that she'll get there (I'm at 40% read), but right now, it's whhhhyyyyyyy
    The payoff was worth the wait, I think.

    I'm also interested to see what trouble Samuel has gotten himself into. It was a nice teaser.
    Custom Melayl avatar by my cousin, ~thejason10, used with his permission. See his work at his Deviant Art page.
    My works:
    Need help?
    Spoiler
    Show
    National Suicide Prevention Lifeline (USA)
    1-800-273-TALK (8255), 24/7
    www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org
    In Australia: Lifeline, 13 11 14, 24/7
    Reach Out Australia
    Beyond Blue, 1300 22 4636
    The Samaritans (UK too) UK: 08457 90 90 90, ROI: 1850 60 90 90

  13. - Top - End - #73
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Originally Posted by Mechalich
    You might try Christoph Baumer's History of Central Asia (Vol 1), which is more focused on the archeological evidence and contains a spends a significant amount of its space covering Greco-Bactria.
    Thanks for the suggestion, this looks like a good synthesis and overview of Central Asia. Based on the TOC, he seems to spend maybe thirty pages on Bactria. Should be good for placing Bactria in a broader geographic context.

    .
    Last edited by Palanan; 2022-09-20 at 04:29 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #74
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
    LibraryOgre's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Melayl View Post
    The payoff was worth the wait, I think.

    I'm also interested to see what trouble Samuel has gotten himself into. It was a nice teaser.
    I kinda feel like that got wrapped up a bit too neatly, TBH... might wind up with a shake-up in the pack, but the main worry seems to have gotten resolved without much effort from Mercedes, and almost entirely off-screen.

    I was a little surprised that we got another Bonarata novel, but Silence Fallen was 4 books at 5 years ago.
    The Cranky Gamer
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
    *Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
    *The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
    Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
    There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.

  15. - Top - End - #75
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Thanks for the suggestion, this looks like a good synthesis and overview of Central Asia. Based on the TOC, he seems to spend maybe thirty pages on Bactria. Should be good for placing Bactria in a broader geographic context.
    It's pretty good. I'm currently working my way (slowly) through volume 2. The main weakness is a lack of good ancient world maps so its sometimes hard to tell where all these ancient cities that no longer exist were actually supposed to be, but you can supplement that. Also, Baumer's focus is on art history, so there's a lot about stylistic correspondences of various archeological finds and how changes in art trace things like the movement of religious and ethnic influences across the region over time, for example, how the Buddha might go from being drawn using an Indian style to a more Sogdian style to a Chinese style across the centuries in some place like Kashgar.

    The books themselves are super-high quality with great photo prints, though they are also giant implements of blunt trauma as mighty coffee table hardcovers. Unfortunately, they are correspondingly expensive.
    Now publishing a webnovel travelogue.

    Resvier: a P6 homebrew setting

  16. - Top - End - #76
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Originally Posted by Mechalich
    The main weakness is a lack of good ancient world maps so its sometimes hard to tell where all these ancient cities that no longer exist were actually supposed to be….
    I value maps quite a bit, so this is a little disappointing. Presumably in this case the art photos help make up for it, but I really do like having my geographic bearings.

    Originally Posted by Mechalich
    Unfortunately, they are correspondingly expensive.
    ILL to the rescue.

  17. - Top - End - #77
    Titan in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Current fiction: Joseph Conrad, Nostromo. This may take a while, the style is quite verbose.
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
    Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society

  18. - Top - End - #78
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Dragonus45's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Knoxville Tennessee
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Finished Nona the Ninth. It was a trip and a half. Did you know cows exhibit mourning behavior?

    The Locked Tomb series has been a rollercoaster so far. Gideon the Ninth was a mostly-straightforward romp of swords and sorcery with a sarcastic edge, and then Harrow the Ninth was totally different, like some sort of melancholic reflection domestic drama with occasional necromancy, and now Nona the Ninth was pretty much just a constant brainmelter.

    Best book series I've read in...maybe ever.
    I blasted my way through that one on release day and had to go back again and pick over various scenes to try and put details together. I love how this series makes me feel so damn stupid.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Have you seen how someone found a cypher from the names of the Jod chapters in Nona?
    Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
    If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.

  19. - Top - End - #79
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    I blasted my way through that one on release day and had to go back again and pick over various scenes to try and put details together. I love how this series makes me feel so damn stupid.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Have you seen how someone found a cypher from the names of the Jod chapters in Nona?
    I did see that! I love how many hints, secrets, and callbacks Muir slips into her writing. The Locked Tomb might not have the most secrets and easter eggs of any series I've ever read, but it is the best of any series I've read at incorporating them smoothly and making the realization feel fitting and "earned." Nona the Ninth made me work for a lot of its exposition, even more so than Gideon or Harrow, and it really gave a sense of payoff to that dawning comprehension. So many books just lay it all out there without any work required on my part.

    And then, of course, she caves and throws in a None Pizza With Left Beef joke for the lulz.
    Last edited by Ionathus; 2022-09-21 at 09:25 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #80
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Dragonus45's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Knoxville Tennessee
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    I did see that! I love how many hints, secrets, and callbacks Muir slips into her writing. The Locked Tomb might not have the most secrets and easter eggs of any series I've ever read, but it is the best of any series I've read at incorporating them smoothly and making the realization feel fitting and "earned." Nona the Ninth made me work for a lot of its exposition, even more so than Gideon or Harrow, and it really gave a sense of payoff to that dawning comprehension. So many books just lay it all out there without any work required on my part.

    And then, of course, she caves and throws in a None Pizza With Left Beef joke for the lulz.
    Yea the meme references are where her Homestuck roots really shine through, well that and the hyper dense plot that constantly shifts it's narrative voice, structure, style, and genre while expecting you to take extensive notes. Nona has left me feeling a little put off though now that the ride is over. It's clear from the way the narrative kind of doesn't move that this was originally going to be the first third or so of the next book even if one isn't totally familiar with the publication history.
    Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
    If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.

  21. - Top - End - #81
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    LaZodiac's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    So what's the like, appeal of the Locked Tomb series? Everything I've heard and experienced about it feels miserable, I'm genuinely curious what it's got going on.

  22. - Top - End - #82
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Dragonus45's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Knoxville Tennessee
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    So what's the like, appeal of the Locked Tomb series? Everything I've heard and experienced about it feels miserable, I'm genuinely curious what it's got going on.
    So this is a hard answer because each book is very very different from the others. With the first being a sort of murder mystery at necromancy school kind of deal but the protagonist is a sarcastic ******* who doesn't want to be there, but is also nursing a massive crush on the necromancer Princess of Pluto she is there to be the bodyguard of which complicated their deeply resentful relationship. The atmosphere of the story really pulls me in, and the excellent character work takes it from there to the finish line. And for people like me who really like this kind of things it gets just enough into the mechanics of how the necromantic magic they use works to feel like it isn't pulling anything out of it's but when that magic comes into play. But that's only the first book, which gains tons and tons of reread value after book 2 and 3 each! (I'll also say that I was put off for it forever because I tend not to like necromancy and also the only thing people would ever say about it was that it had swords and lesbians. Which made me think that that was all it had going for it, which was totally wrong and the people who boil it down to being only that really do a disservice.)

    The second book is also great, and a bit hard to talk because it's told in second person to excellent effect and literally everything about it's premise is kind of a spoiler for the first book but is worth a read for getting to see the way it totally demystifies the "God Emperor" guy from the first book.

    :EDIT: To be more specific to your question about it being miserable, while yes the story has a great deal of tragedy and hardship it also has a wicked sharp sense of humor and great emotional beats to help it feel like it is never too overwhelming.
    Last edited by Dragonus45; 2022-09-21 at 11:18 AM.
    Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
    If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.

  23. - Top - End - #83
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tail of the Bellcurve
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    So what's the like, appeal of the Locked Tomb series? Everything I've heard and experienced about it feels miserable, I'm genuinely curious what it's got going on.
    I'm right there with you. I read the first book and found it kinda mediocre; not even miserable just dull, but with occasional references to porn mags because it's supposed to be all gonzo and challenging.

    And now I'm wondering just what I missed.
    Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
    When they shot him down on the highway,
    Down like a dog on the highway,
    And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.


    Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.

  24. - Top - End - #84
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    LaZodiac's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    So this is a hard answer because each book is very very different from the others. With the first being a sort of murder mystery at necromancy school kind of deal but the protagonist is a sarcastic ******* who doesn't want to be there, but is also nursing a massive crush on the necromancer Princess of Pluto she is there to be the bodyguard of which complicated their deeply resentful relationship. The atmosphere of the story really pulls me in, and the excellent character work takes it from there to the finish line. And for people like me who really like this kind of things it gets just enough into the mechanics of how the necromantic magic they use works to feel like it isn't pulling anything out of it's but when that magic comes into play. But that's only the first book, which gains tons and tons of reread value after book 2 and 3 each! (I'll also say that I was put off for it forever because I tend not to like necromancy and also the only thing people would ever say about it was that it had swords and lesbians. Which made me think that that was all it had going for it, which was totally wrong and the people who boil it down to being only that really do a disservice.)

    The second book is also great, and a bit hard to talk because it's told in second person to excellent effect and literally everything about it's premise is kind of a spoiler for the first book but is worth a read for getting to see the way it totally demystifies the "God Emperor" guy from the first book.

    :EDIT: To be more specific to your question about it being miserable, while yes the story has a great deal of tragedy and hardship it also has a wicked sharp sense of humor and great emotional beats to help it feel like it is never too overwhelming.
    I didn't mean miserable as in "too dark and gritty" I meant miserable in that "if I was stuck in a room with Gideon I'd try to leave through any means possible".

    I've read the first fourish chapters cause that's what the Amazon preview lets me read and if the book continues along what it presented, I just don't understand what people see in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    I'm right there with you. I read the first book and found it kinda mediocre; not even miserable just dull, but with occasional references to porn mags because it's supposed to be all gonzo and challenging.

    And now I'm wondering just what I missed.
    From what it sounds like, nothing.

  25. - Top - End - #85
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    So what's the like, appeal of the Locked Tomb series? Everything I've heard and experienced about it feels miserable, I'm genuinely curious what it's got going on.
    "Lesbian necromancers in space" is the elevator pitch, but it's not the appeal, at least for me.

    I also struggled to get into the first quarter of Gideon, particularly for the reasons cited by both you and warty goblin: Gideon was abrasive and annoying and everyone else was even nastier. However, without spoiling too much, the book opens up quickly after that - and the elements that you cited not liking in the first fourish chapters evolve into a very different (more enjoyable) vibe. By the end of the first book, I was genuinely hooked by several elements:

    1. Complex and rewarding character relationships
    2. Sharp and evocative sensory descriptions, and
    3. A dense, chewy plot that reveals more every time I come back to it.

    All three of them continue through the next two books, and they combine to create a very unique vibe I've never experienced in anything else I've read. This isn't just me gushing about a favorite author - I do truly believe these are the elements that make The Locked Tomb series stand out and make up its core "appeal." By the end of Gideon the Ninth, you'll definitely know whether or not the rest of the series is to your tastes. But I do believe it'll be worth your time to finish Gideon, at least.
    Last edited by Ionathus; 2022-09-21 at 01:46 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #86
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    "Lesbian necromancers in space" is the elevator pitch, but it's not the appeal, at least for me.

    I also struggled to get into the first quarter of Gideon, particularly for the reasons cited by both you and warty goblin: Gideon was abrasive and annoying and everyone else was even nastier. However, without spoiling too much, the book opens up quickly after that - and the elements that you cited not liking in the first fourish chapters evolve into a very different (more enjoyable) vibe. By the end of the first book, I was genuinely hooked by several elements:

    1. Complex and rewarding character relationships
    2. Sharp and evocative sensory descriptions, and
    3. A dense, chewy plot that reveals more every time I come back to it.

    All three of them continue through the next two books, and they combine to create a very unique vibe I've never experienced in anything else I've read. This isn't just me gushing about a favorite author - I do truly believe these are the elements that make The Locked Tomb series stand out and make up its core "appeal." By the end of Gideon the Ninth, you'll definitely know whether or not the rest of the series is to your tastes. But I do believe it'll be worth your time to finish Gideon, at least.
    See, I've read the first two books and I would claim that the characters are highly inconsistent at best, the descriptions are overly detailed and numbing, and the plot is utterly pointless because it completely fails to explain why this necromancer empire exists, what challenges it faces, and why anyone would care that it should continue to exist. Also, while Gideon the Ninth is straightforward enough and manages to eventually work its way to a decent climax with some cool necromancer fights in the end, Harrow the Ninth is an absolute travesty of a book centered around a completely out of character bait and switch that spends 3/4ths of its length spinning its wheels pointlessly.

    Personally, I don't think I could warn people away from the series strongly enough. Gideon is okay, but Harrow is 'throw the book at the wall' infuriating.
    Now publishing a webnovel travelogue.

    Resvier: a P6 homebrew setting

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Character and prose are down to personal preference, so I'm not going to debate you there. But I think if you're criticizing the 2nd book for not fixating on and explaining the logistics of the Empire when the scope is very clearly the exploration of a single person's psyche & trauma, that's not really a criticism -- it just wasn't the direction you wanted the story & worldbuilding to take.

  28. - Top - End - #88
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Character and prose are down to personal preference, so I'm not going to debate you there. But I think if you're criticizing the 2nd book for not fixating on and explaining the logistics of the Empire when the scope is very clearly the exploration of a single person's psyche & trauma, that's not really a criticism -- it just wasn't the direction you wanted the story & worldbuilding to take.
    No, it's absolutely a criticism, because I do not care about Harrow's psyche and trauma and nothing in book one or book two provides any reason why I should care or why it would matter. In fact, because book one mostly establishes that Harrow is a horrible person (though arguably through no fault of her own) the only reason to care would be if it mattered for some greater purpose and there's no indication that it does. There's also the problem that Harrow's trauma, and frankly the various other baggage attached to basically every character is incredibly alien. The necromancy-saturated society of the empire is so twisted away from any actual human social system that can exist in the real world that it puts these characters at an extraordinary distance from the reader.
    Now publishing a webnovel travelogue.

    Resvier: a P6 homebrew setting

  29. - Top - End - #89
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    No, it's absolutely a criticism, because I do not care about Harrow's psyche and trauma and nothing in book one or book two provides any reason why I should care or why it would matter. In fact, because book one mostly establishes that Harrow is a horrible person (though arguably through no fault of her own) the only reason to care would be if it mattered for some greater purpose and there's no indication that it does. There's also the problem that Harrow's trauma, and frankly the various other baggage attached to basically every character is incredibly alien. The necromancy-saturated society of the empire is so twisted away from any actual human social system that can exist in the real world that it puts these characters at an extraordinary distance from the reader.
    Again, I don't feel like this is really a thing we can debate effectively, given all of your criticisms come down to personal taste. I definitely don't expect to change your mind - just share my own perspective and hope that others like LaZodiac (who asked about the series's appeal in the first place) will take it into consideration.

    If you came out of book 1 thinking Harrow was a horrible person with not enough redeeming qualities to care about her as a character, I can understand...even if I feel very strongly otherwise. Any character that starts out so antagonistic is going to run that risk, and it just didn't click for you, and that's fine. You also get points for bravery for then picking up a sequel called Harrow the Ninth if you already knew you hated the title character.

    However, I disagree that "the only reason to care" is for the sake of your narrow definition of "some greater purpose." In fact, I found it quite easy to care. I'd grown attached to the characters of the first book, and processing the fallout from its ending throughout the second book was its own reward for me. That the 2nd book also sprinkled in abundant hints and allusions to the broader conflict throughout was the exact amount of worldbuilding I needed.

    Ironically, Nona the Ninth contains far, far more worldbuilding and cultural details and Empire logistics and explanations about the threats it faces - by several orders of magnitude, in fact. Unfortunately, you'd probably hate it due to its narrative style and pacing. Which is a pity, because
    Spoiler: Nona the Ninth
    Show
    it barely contains any Harrow at all, and the title character is nearly Harrow's polar opposite personality-wise.

  30. - Top - End - #90
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: The Book Thread

    I just read the first book based on this thread and my conclusion is similar to Mechalich's. Gideon's character fluctuates wildly throughout the book, and her quips feel like they're from a different book series that clashes horribly with the tone of the rest of the novel. Harrow isn't just antagonistic for most of the book - she's introduced as a full-fledged villain and Gideon's switch from "I hate you with two decades of very good reasons for hating you" to "Actually I love you and we're soulmates" gave me whiplash.

    Which is a shame, because the actual murder/mystery portion of the book was quite good. Lots of twists and turns that kept me guessing but didn't feel like the author was cheating. I just think I'd have enjoyed it a lot more if the story was following Palamedes instead.

    I don't have Mechalich's fortitude - I was considering reading the second book for the surrounding story, but Harrow is dislikeable enough that I made the decision not to buy on seeing her name on the cover.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •