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Thread: The Book Thread

  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    You should go back a few pages, we had a lengthy discussion about the ending there. Your opinion?
    So, thinking about it some more, I think the ending fits quite well with the themes.

    Spoiler: Ending and themes
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    Namely that on an individual/small-scale level, people are generally compassionate, even good, but once you get to the institutional level that same compassion starts causing problems. When presented with the choice "You can save this person/child in front of you, and all it will cost you is some effort and maybe risk to yourself", most people will choose to help. The problem is once you reach the level of enclaves (and politics in general) that choice gets the addendum "and some risk to someone else you've never met and never will", and people will still choose to save the person in front of them, the person they actually care about. On an individual level, things can go right, people can be happy, but making institutional changes takes a lot more work.

    So I think it makes sense that saving Orion just plain works, but changing the enclave system will be the work of a lifetime and may not be permanently possible at all.

    Feel like I'm not explaining this as best I can, but those are my thoughts so far.


    Spoiler: Plot twist
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    I also really enjoyed the plot twist that El was destroying the enclaves after all, by destroying the maw-mouths. We had the most crucial information, the timeline, the entire time, but because we the readers get fed the information as discrete bits very separated in both time and context, I never once connected the dots. An extremely well foreshadowed twist that I nevertheless did not see coming at all.
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    Yeah, that plot twist worked really well.
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  3. - Top - End - #243
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    I caught on a bit before El did, but a plot twist that I see coming because the clues have been well-laid is always better than a plot twist that I didn't because it doesn't make any sense.

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    I've been listening to the audiobook of All of Us Villains by Amanda Foody and Christine Lynn Herman. It's YA fantasy, but so far it hasn't been too tropey, and I really like the premise.

    The best way I can describe the setup is, it's the Holy Grail War from Fate/Stay Night, except instead of summoning servants the mages are fighting each other directly. And instead of being a secret battle for power, someone published a tell-all book and now the world is treating it like a reality show, with people speculating on who's going to win, paparazzi following the mages around before the start of the competition, and magic shops competing to sponsor the different contestants.

    It's just getting to the part where the battle actually begins, so I'm excited to see how things turn out.
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  5. - Top - End - #245
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    The Boy and I are reading Magnus Chase: Sword of Summer together; I've got the ebook, he's got the audiobook. He loves the Aesir and Vanir, so getting him into this has been great.
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    I found out someone got the rights to make My Cousin Vinny novels continuing the stories of Vincent LaGuardia Gambini and Mona Lisa Vito. I got the audio book to listen to during my commute.

    It is the single worst thing I've ever encountered. It is a masterpiece of crap, truly unparalleled and is only not immortalized among the worst schlock there is through its obscurity. I thought about making a let's read thread for it on the boards but it wouldnt be suitable due to my reactions of incredible rage and profuse swearing.

    Y'all should check it out. It's atrocious.
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  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibraryOgre View Post
    The Boy and I are reading Magnus Chase: Sword of Summer together; I've got the ebook, he's got the audiobook. He loves the Aesir and Vanir, so getting him into this has been great.
    How are the Magnus Chase books compared to the Percy Jackson novels?
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2023-02-02 at 11:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    How are the Magnus Chase books compared to the Percy Jackson novels?
    Not too far different, IMO, but it's been ten years since I read PJ.
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    Just finished the complete Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series, including the last two novels which I'd never really read properly before because they didn't grab my attention like the others the first time I read the series
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I found out someone got the rights to make My Cousin Vinny novels continuing the stories of Vincent LaGuardia Gambini and Mona Lisa Vito. I got the audio book to listen to during my commute.

    It is the single worst thing I've ever encountered. It is a masterpiece of crap, truly unparalleled and is only not immortalized among the worst schlock there is through its obscurity. I thought about making a let's read thread for it on the boards but it wouldnt be suitable due to my reactions of incredible rage and profuse swearing.

    Y'all should check it out. It's atrocious.
    I have an audible credit to spare while I wait on the second Beware of Chicken book to come out, I may check this out thank you!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    I have an audible credit to spare while I wait on the second Beware of Chicken book to come out, I may check this out thank you!
    The audible version adds its own torments, such as the main voice actor clearly never having seen the movie somehow. Even when the book does not have Vinny being completely oblivious (eg he has to have a pimp explain to him multiple times how his service works before Vinny realizes its sex work), he is never voiced as being the bombastic person we see in the movie. He sounds more like Leo Getz from Lethal Weapon instead of Vinny Gambini. The voice actor for Mona Lisa is way better, but she still is limited by the material she has to work with. Also, at the end, I swear someone literally phoned in their lines. As in, it sounds like a recording over the phone, even though they characters are all supposed to be in the same room.

    It's a complete train wreck, both the writing and the voice acting. You should totally pull the trigger on it. I'm trying to build up the courage to get the second book in the series.

    ETA: Oh, and I almost forgot - one of the movies biggest charms that makes it stand out from other comedies of the day was its amazing accuracy to legal procedure, to the point that its often used as a teaching aid in law schools and has been cited in numerous court cases. Lawyers love the movie becuase it took specific care to be fairly accurate. Do not expect that in the book. It's not only inaccurate as all get-out, but the ending twist is completely ****ing stupid. Prepare to be surprised at how dumb it is. It's so shockingly inept you're gonna fall out of your chair.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2023-02-03 at 10:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    The audible version adds its own torments, such as the main voice actor clearly never having seen the movie somehow. Even when the book does not have Vinny being completely oblivious (eg he has to have a pimp explain to him multiple times how his service works before Vinny realizes its sex work), he is never voiced as being the bombastic person we see in the movie. He sounds more like Leo Getz from Lethal Weapon instead of Vinny Gambini. The voice actor for Mona Lisa is way better, but she still is limited by the material she has to work with. Also, at the end, I swear someone literally phoned in their lines. As in, it sounds like a recording over the phone, even though they characters are all supposed to be in the same room.

    It's a complete train wreck, both the writing and the voice acting. You should totally pull the trigger on it. I'm trying to build up the courage to get the second book in the series.

    ETA: Oh, and I almost forgot - one of the movies biggest charms that makes it stand out from other comedies of the day was its amazing accuracy to legal procedure, to the point that its often used as a teaching aid in law schools and has been cited in numerous court cases. Lawyers love the movie becuase it took specific care to be fairly accurate. Do not expect that in the book. It's not only inaccurate as all get-out, but the ending twist is completely ****ing stupid. Prepare to be surprised at how dumb it is. It's so shockingly inept you're gonna fall out of your chair.
    This sounds like a delightful trainwreck. I'm absolutely getting it now, I'm betting I can get a whole episode of complaining about it on the podcast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    This sounds like a delightful trainwreck. I'm absolutely getting it now, I'm betting I can get a whole episode of complaining about it on the podcast.
    Bytheway, I'm interested in your thoughts on it when you get though. Even if only to make sure I dont have blinders on regarding it or anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Bytheway, I'm interested in your thoughts on it when you get though. Even if only to make sure I dont have blinders on regarding it or anything.
    I have it and was going to listen to it while driving to a con last week but I had to cancel. I'll let you know what I think once I finally start it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    I never actually read The Martian, but I did read his 2nd book, Project Hail Mary and thought it was a wonderful depiction of First Contact.
    Just picked this up on your recommendation last week - I've been looking for some easy sci-fi reading and Weir's style might be just the key. I'll let you know what I think!

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    Just finished reading The Song of Achilles. On its own, for a hypothetical reader that wasn't familiar with the Iliad/related stories and myths, I have a feeling that it'd just be decent, but not exceptional. It's a fairly well-written story of the doomed romance of Patroclus and Achilles.

    But knowing the literary/mythological background, it hits like a train. The dramatic irony from knowing how events end up playing out gives a lot more weight to it, and it's heartbreaking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IthilanorStPete View Post
    Just finished reading The Song of Achilles. On its own, for a hypothetical reader that wasn't familiar with the Iliad/related stories and myths, I have a feeling that it'd just be decent, but not exceptional. It's a fairly well-written story of the doomed romance of Patroclus and Achilles.

    But knowing the literary/mythological background, it hits like a train. The dramatic irony from knowing how events end up playing out gives a lot more weight to it, and it's heartbreaking.
    The Song of Achilles is great. I picked it up right about when it released on a lark, half expecting to be disappointed, and was very positively surprised. You are exactly right, it's the (in modern times) unusual story that's built around the audience knowing the ending. I love this as a narrative device, suspense is kinda shallow for me and works once, but dread and that impossible hope that somehow this time things end differently gets me every time.

    I was on a real reading role, but a family medical emergency last week kinda knocked me off course. Everyone is fine, thankfully, but I got to spend a long time sitting around ICUs, so I reverted to hard-core brainless comfort reading. Yep, all the way back to The Crystal Shard, RA Salvatore's classic fantasy tale that pushed the envelope on just how little plot can connect just how many fight scenes. It's sort of ironic that this predates modern videogames, because it's basically a faithful novelization of a videogame. You get a bit of context for the each scene, followed by a bucket of murder, then its on to the next level, er, scene. The intra-chapter excerpts from Drizzt's diary are basically loading screen VO stuck in to convince people this thing actually has a story and depth and crap. It does not, which isn't a bad thing because it is a hell of a lot of fun.

    Think I'll probably finish Crystal Shard, then rotate back to something a bit more cerebral. So, basically anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Just picked this up on your recommendation last week - I've been looking for some easy sci-fi reading and Weir's style might be just the key. I'll let you know what I think!
    Sounds good.

    Turns out it's actually his 3rd book, he also wrote one called Artemis about a moon colony. Never read it though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    The Song of Achilles is great. I picked it up right about when it released on a lark, half expecting to be disappointed, and was very positively surprised. You are exactly right, it's the (in modern times) unusual story that's built around the audience knowing the ending. I love this as a narrative device, suspense is kinda shallow for me and works once, but dread and that impossible hope that somehow this time things end differently gets me every time.
    I wish the book was a bit stronger otherwise; I didn't find the characterization that deep, and I wouldn't have minded some more lyrical prose*. That said, I definitely agree on the part of your quote I bolded. I think ASOIAF is a great example of that approach; the inevitable fall into the terror and heartbreak of the Red Wedding is part of what makes it so effective, and the tragic outcome of Jon Snow's struggle between family and duty in ADWD works so well because it's been building all book, with his ultimately disastrous decisions arising naturally from his character.

    Speaking more generally about fiction, I think it's worth mentioning Alfred Hitchcock's thoughts about surprise vs. suspense, though this is more of a complaint I have with other modern media, not so much books (at least what I've been reading lately). As you say, suspense works once (at best), and a lot of modern works go for out-of-nowhere twists that only work from their initial shock value. I'm much more engaged when, to quote Hitchcock, "[I'm] longing to warn the characters on the screen: 'You shouldn't be talking about such trivial matters. There is a bomb beneath you and it is about to explode!'".

    *This is How You Lose the Time War is probably my current favorite in that regard, and the Locked Tomb books also have their moments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IthilanorStPete View Post
    *This is How You Lose the Time War is probably my current favorite in that regard, and the Locked Tomb books also have their moments.
    I'd never heard of This is How You Lose the Time War so I looked up the elevator pitch and it sounds fascinating. Makes me think of the rare SCP work that makes full use of its wonky sci-fi elements. Gonna have to add that to the list!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    I'd never heard of This is How You Lose the Time War so I looked up the elevator pitch and it sounds fascinating. Makes me think of the rare SCP work that makes full use of its wonky sci-fi elements. Gonna have to add that to the list!
    If you're looking for an in-depth exploration of time travel, this isn't the book for you; it's more of an epistolary romance in an SF setting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    Think I'll probably finish Crystal Shard, then rotate back to something a bit more cerebral. So, basically anything.
    Or you could try Elric.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IthilanorStPete View Post
    If you're looking for an in-depth exploration of time travel, this isn't the book for you; it's more of an epistolary romance in an SF setting.
    Not so much an in-depth exploration of time travel, I really just meant "a story that makes good use of its unique elements." Which I suppose I don't know more than the blurb, but it sounds like this has a lot of potential for being interesting in that regard.

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    The Traitor Baru Cormorant got returned again before I finished it; somehow I always manage to check it out during a time when I'm busy doing other things or just don't feel like reading much. This time I made it about two thirds of the way through; I like it, but my paranoia is whispering that it's setting up for a heckuva downer ending. Guess we'll see in [checks library site] 11 weeks. Ugh.

    After that, I went for some lighter fare: the next three books in the InCryptid series, all following the youngest of the Price siblings. She's an interesting contrast to the other narrators; very similar in skills and opinions, she nonetheless comes across as a lot more bitter than her brother and sister (honestly not unreasonable, given her circumstances).

    And then I reread Valor's Choice, the first of a military sci-fi series I read ages ago. Pretty good, and there was more humor than I remembered. Staff Sergeant Torin has a keen eye for inefficiency, stupid decisions, and plain old irony happening around her, and the audience gets to see all of her sarcastic observations even as she remains the model of professionalism outwardly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    The Traitor Baru Cormorant got returned again before I finished it; somehow I always manage to check it out during a time when I'm busy doing other things or just don't feel like reading much. This time I made it about two thirds of the way through; I like it, but my paranoia is whispering that it's setting up for a heckuva downer ending. Guess we'll see in [checks library site] 11 weeks. Ugh.
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    So, The Boy and I were reading The Sword of Summer together; me ebook, him eaudiobook. He finished last night, and as I went to read at lunch, I saw he had checked out the next book in the series, so he could read that, too! Great. He'd also returned the Sword of Summer. But he'd returned my gorram ebook, not his audiobook.

    Imma have to grump at him.
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    I am presently reading "The Master of Mysterties" by Gelett Burgess. It was written prior to WWI and is some what dated. But the hero's premise and sidekick are unique and I find these short stories quite enjoyable.
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    The library had their used book sale the other week, which is just terribly dangerous. Mass market paperbacks for $2 each is just irresistible.

    First up on the small mountain I picked up, Black Blade Blues, an urban fantasy that, from the outside looks like every other urban fantasy from 10 years ago. Hot babe strong female protagonist with a sword, some indication of some magic stuff, and a cover quote from somebody I guess to be another urban fantasy author. Inside it is actually not that.

    Also spoilers below, in case you care about spoilers for a decade old obscure C tier novel. You don't, so just keep reading.

    For starters our protagonist is lesbian. Not bi but only actually hooks up with hunky alpha werewolf dudes, hard Kinsey 6 no interest in dudes lesbian. So that's different. She's also got a pretty severe case of internalized homophobia, which causes her to be frequently a giant jerk and also drives the more interesting conflicts in the book. Because when Sarah, our hero, isn't getting seriously tilted about shower sex with her girlfriend whom everybody knows is her girlfriend, there's the actual plot which is something something dragon something magic sword something she has to kill the dragon.

    Yeah, the fantasy bit is seriously underwhelming. There's a couple twists so obvious and so foreshadowed I don't think they count, and a bad guy whom we are repeatedly assured is super mega ultra bad, but like, over there, doing bad things to some non-specific people we don't know for most of the novel.

    The human drama however is good. Now as a tremendously boring Kinsey 0 straight dude, I have no personal experience with internalized homophobia, but it seems well done here. Sarah likes women, a fact her extremely horny internal monolog makes very clear, but due to awful parents irrationally can't deal with this. There are a lot of fireworks, to the author's credit he actually lets the protagonist make actually big painful mistakes and not just coast by consequence free, and it's well done, engaging stuff.

    ...and then we get to the surreally horny bit. Like, a chapter so utterly baffling in its horniness it was honestly worth the price of admission right there on its own.

    So there's a rather rote battle where a bunch of side characters with nearly three paragraphs per person of characterization get killed. Sarah comes to, and notices the Valkyries choosing the slain. She needs to borrow one of their winged horses to go kill the dragon, but (horny internal monolog ro the rescue!) cannot help but notice the valkyries are totally banging turbo-babes. The Valkyrie in question is like "you too are mega hot, we should go boink right now, because I haven't gotten laid in a long time."

    They don't, but this is an actual chapter that got written and included in the actual published novel. And I am just so, so baffled by this chapter. It makes no tonal sense, it goes nowhere (for a book this horny there's not a lot of actual sex) has nothing to do with the plot, and just, what? Vast, epic levels of what?

    This is why I read weird trashy stuff. A normal good book would never do anything this transcendentally strange, but would proceed predictably towards its normal conclusion, with sensible seen-it-before character arcs and tone. I'm not saying this works, because it absolutely doesn't, but it doesn't work in glorious, unpredictable fashion.

    Competence is boring. Give me weird incompetence every time.
    Last edited by warty goblin; 2023-02-20 at 11:12 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #269
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    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    Competence is boring. Give me weird incompetence every time.
    Zero Punctuation has a great video about how "Bad [video]games are better than bland [video]games".

    Obviously his genre is videogaming but I think the same concept applies! I'd much rather read something that's bad in a fascinating way than read something that takes no risks. In fact, this past year I had to read a crappy harlequin romance because I lost a bet, and I was disappointed by how mediocre it was.

  30. - Top - End - #270
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    Default Re: The Book Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    The library had their used book sale the other week, which is just terribly dangerous. Mass market paperbacks for $2 each is just irresistible.

    First up on the small mountain I picked up, Black Blade Blues, an urban fantasy that, from the outside looks like every other urban fantasy from 10 years ago. Hot babe strong female protagonist with a sword, some indication of some magic stuff, and a cover quote from somebody I guess to be another urban fantasy author. Inside it is actually not that.

    Also spoilers below, in case you care about spoilers for a decade old obscure C tier novel. You don't, so just keep reading.

    For starters our protagonist is lesbian. Not bi but only actually hooks up with hunky alpha werewolf dudes, hard Kinsey 6 no interest in dudes lesbian. So that's different. She's also got a pretty severe case of internalized homophobia, which causes her to be frequently a giant jerk and also drives the more interesting conflicts in the book. Because when Sarah, our hero, isn't getting seriously tilted about shower sex with her girlfriend whom everybody knows is her girlfriend, there's the actual plot which is something something dragon something magic sword something she has to kill the dragon.

    Yeah, the fantasy bit is seriously underwhelming. There's a couple twists so obvious and so foreshadowed I don't think they count, and a bad guy whom we are repeatedly assured is super mega ultra bad, but like, over there, doing bad things to some non-specific people we don't know for most of the novel.

    The human drama however is good. Now as a tremendously boring Kinsey 0 straight dude, I have no personal experience with internalized homophobia, but it seems well done here. Sarah likes women, a fact her extremely horny internal monolog makes very clear, but due to awful parents irrationally can't deal with this. There are a lot of fireworks, to the author's credit he actually lets the protagonist make actually big painful mistakes and not just coast by consequence free, and it's well done, engaging stuff.

    ...and then we get to the surreally horny bit. Like, a chapter so utterly baffling in its horniness it was honestly worth the price of admission right there on its own.

    So there's a rather rote battle where a bunch of side characters with nearly three paragraphs per person of characterization get killed. Sarah comes to, and notices the Valkyries choosing the slain. She needs to borrow one of their winged horses to go kill the dragon, but (horny internal monolog ro the rescue!) cannot help but notice the valkyries are totally banging turbo-babes. The Valkyrie in question is like "you too are mega hot, we should go boink right now, because I haven't gotten laid in a long time."

    They don't, but this is an actual chapter that got written and included in the actual published novel. And I am just so, so baffled by this chapter. It makes no tonal sense, it goes nowhere (for a book this horny there's not a lot of actual sex) has nothing to do with the plot, and just, what? Vast, epic levels of what?

    This is why I read weird trashy stuff. A normal good book would never do anything this transcendentally strange, but would proceed predictably towards its normal conclusion, with sensible seen-it-before character arcs and tone. I'm not saying this works, because it absolutely doesn't, but it doesn't work in glorious, unpredictable fashion.

    Competence is boring. Give me weird incompetence every time.
    This one ALSO has an audio book. Time to pick it up. I can listen to it after the My Cousin Vinny book. Which I started yesterday and am about half an hour into and is almost surreal.
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