A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by redking View Post
    Any innate spellcaster, such as a dragon, is in the same situation. They need to take a single level of their associated class at least so they can get the base class progression structure, then they can take prestige classes that advance spellcasting if they qualify. So in the case of the Warcaster, it needs to take a level of Wizard or it won't advance spellcasting even if it qualifies for a PrC that advances spellcasting.

    The spellcasting progression PrCs are a special case.
    Sorry I wasn't being clear.

    Warcaster and Warsoul both imply that they progress by taking Wizard levels only, ie no prestige class, no class that promotes Wizard casting levels, but the Wizard class only.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Been leafing through Monster Manual 3 for candidates for Acolyte of the Fist.

    They might as well have named it "The Book of Iron Will". Feels like every damn creature with an INT score had to have their mental saves propped up with feats.

    Still looking for any monster that actually got Stunning Fist. Even the damn Armand Warden, a 4th level Monk went down the Improved Grapple line.

    So far, through SRD+MM 1+MM 2+MM 3+Oriental Adventures, I've counted precisely one monster that's got Improved Unarmed Strike: the Firbolg in MM 2. Although he's out of contention even for close Acolyte of the Fist because he lacks literally everything else: no Iron Will, no Stunning Fist, not one rank in Tumble or Jump. I think it'd take two flaw feats and two levels in Rogue, or just two levels in Feat Rogue, to actually qualify him.

    Can I also add thanks, 20 years too late, to WOTC for getting around to including BAB scores in the MM 3 after omitting them in the MM 2? I didn't realise how annoying it was to try and do the calculations in my head.

    EDIT: aaaaand I spoke too soon. Banshrae, MM V. Aside from alignment ("Usually" CE) and lack of Iron Will, it has all that stuff.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Acolyte of the Skin (Complete Arcane)

    Prerequisites:
    Alignment: Any nongood
    Skills: Knowledge (the planes) 6 ranks
    Spells or Spell-Like Abilities: Caster level 5th.
    Special: Must have made peaceful contact with a summoned evil outsider.
    Special: Must undergo the Ritual of Bonding.


    Monsters who qualify:

    Aboleth Mage (SRD) (CR 17), Abeil Queen (Monster Manual 2) (CR 12), Adaru Demon (Monster Manual 5) (CR 10), Ak'chazar Rakshasha (Monster Manual 3) (CR 15), Amnizu (Monster Manual 2) (CR 7), Cerebrilith (SRD) (CR 10), Chichimec (SRD) (CR 21), Concordant Killer (Monster Manual 4) (CR 19), Deathdrinker Demon (Monster Manual 4) (CR 18), Eldritch Giant (Monster Manual 3) (CR 15), Glimmerskin (Monster Manual 2) (CR 8), Grimweird (Monster Manual 3) (CR 11), Gulthir Demon (Monster Manual 5) (CR 6), Illurien (Monster Manual 5) (CR 15), Justicator (Monster Manual 3) (CR 13), Kelvezu (Monster Manual 2) (CR 18), Marrash (Monster Manual 2) (CR 5), Madcrafter of Thoon (Monster Manual 5) (CR 10), Mercane (ELH) (CR 5), Mezzoloth Yugoloth (Monster Manual 3) (CR 6), Mind Flayer Sorcerer (Monster Manual 3.5) (CR 17), Nycaloth Yugoloth (Monster Manual 3) (CR 10), (Pit Fiend (SRD) (CR 20), Queen of Chaos (SRD) (CR 24), Remmanon (Monster Manual 5) (CR 15), Shadow Flayer (Monster Manual 5) (CR 8), Sorrowsworn Demon (Monster Manual 3) (CR 17), Spell Weaver (Monster Manual 2) (CR 10), Spirrax (Monster Manual 5) (CR 18), Taunting Haunt (Monster Manual 5) (CR 4), Thoon Disciple (Monster Manual 5) (CR 10), Thoon Elder Brain (Monster Manual 5) (CR 15), Ultroloth Yugoloth (Monster Manual 3) (CR 13), Vaporighu (Monster Manual 2) (CR 9), Vitreous Drinker (Monster Manual 4) (CR 11)

    Note:
    - Prestige Classes do not explicitly advance SLAs.
    - Prestige Classes don't advance inherent spellcasting. A level in the appropriate class for the creature resolves the problem.
    - Note Special prerequisites, not that they're hard to achieve for this group of reprobates.
    - ... The Taunting Haunt has Knowledge (all) ...
    Monsters who are close:

    Lumi Crusader (Monster Manual 3) (CR 8)

    Missing:
    - 1 rank Knowledge (The Planes)

    Suggestions for Qualifying:
    - Flaw feat for Open Mind

    Note:
    - May be implausible for Lumi Crusader to have peaceful contact with a summoned evil outsider, even allowing for Lawful Neutral alignment
    Drow Priestess (Monster Manual 4) (CR 9), GISH! (Monster Manual 4) (CR 8), Orc Plague Speaker (Monster Manual 4) (CR 7)
    Missing:
    - 4 ranks Knowledge (The Planes)

    Suggestions for Qualifying:
    - Flaw feat for Open Mind
    Half-Fiend Gnoll Warlock (Monster Manual 4) (CR 6),
    Missing:
    - 4 ranks Knowledge (The Planes)
    - CL 4, not 5th.

    Suggestions for Qualifying:
    - Flaw feat for Open Mind
    - One level in Warlock

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    Can I also add thanks, 20 years too late, to WOTC for getting around to including BAB scores in the MM 3 after omitting them in the MM 2? I didn't realise how annoying it was to try and do the calculations in my head.
    MM 2 doesn't include BAB because it's 3.0, and 3.0 blocks simply didn't include that. It's one of the 3.5 improvements.
    Kreaturen des Lichts
    In ein Gefängnis geboren.
    Jede Spur führt in's Nichts
    Und ist verloren schon bald.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    MM 2 doesn't include BAB because it's 3.0, and 3.0 blocks simply didn't include that. It's one of the 3.5 improvements.
    "Improvements"


    Appreciate the catch nonetheless :)

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    "Improvements"


    Appreciate the catch nonetheless :)
    Of course improvements; you are happy about it, aren't you?
    Kreaturen des Lichts
    In ein Gefängnis geboren.
    Jede Spur führt in's Nichts
    Und ist verloren schon bald.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    Of course improvements; you are happy about it, aren't you?
    Don't mind me, I'm just an old critfishing grognard who's still annoyed they kept keen and Improved Critical from stacking, grumble grumble damn kids get off my lawn...

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    I've been looking at something like this for Pathfinder (where there are built in rules for playing as any monster, using CR as what 3.x would call ECL). I know this is a 3.5 thread, but maybe somebody would consider this useful. (And unfortunately, I can't back-port this into 3.5 as I can't find a 3.5 version of the lamia noble.)

    Anyway, here goes:

    Pathfinder's Lamia Matriarch can almost become an Eldritch Knight.

    The idea is that a lamia matriarch is already a good melee combatant and casts as a sorcerer (with access to the cleric list as well). So, she's a perfect gish. Why not let her advance as both a fighter and a spellcaster? Why not have her become an Eldritch Knight?

    The one problem is the all martial weapons proficiency requirement which she does not have. So, it would take a dip in another class to get that proficiency with all martial weapons. But the base classes that could give her every martial weapon proficiency are boring.

    So, first I thought about prestige classes that could be taken to get that weapon proficiency. Most of these aren't great ideas though. (1) There's Noble Scion... easy enough to enter and thematically reasonable, but as a dip, it's terrible. You get 750 gp, +1 Will, and the weapon proficiency but not much else. Even pure fighter seems more appealing. (2) The Sentinel prestige class could kind of work, but it requires worshiping a deity which is really not a lamia matriarch thing (they hate deities because of the curse put upon their race) though an individual could be different. Also, making this work with the lamia noble's choice of weapon become really limiting as far as deity choices go. So, bleah. (3) Pain Taster exists but it requires too many feats to enter. Even with changing the lamia matriarch's feats up, these are not good feats to take, so I'll pass on this. (4) Golden Legionnaire requires armor proficiencies that would require feats she doesn't have. (5) Low Templar is a poor fit since it involves Mounted Combat.

    So, then I said, okay forget prestige classes. It's better to take a base class even if it's just Bloodrager or Swashbuckler.

    But then I found some other base classes that would work perfectly. These come from the Path of War books. I made all sorts of plans with these, assuming they were first party since they were on the d20pfsrd website... but then I realize they were by Dreamscarred Press, so they were actually 3rd party. But if 3rd party stuff is allowed, these are great.

    I was looking at Stalker at first but then I found Warlord and realized it was a perfect class for a lamia matriarch to dip into. She would get a variety of miscellaneous combat bonuses some based on CHA which she has in spades. It's perfect, both thematically and game-mechanically. And there's even a Path of War version of the Eldritch Knight prestige class that she could enter instead (or in addition to) Eldritch Knight.

    But putting that aside, there's another option. Templates. But I don't want to spent more than +1 CR (or +1 LA in other words) to get martial weapon proficiencies, since dipping into Fighter is always an option. The only template that appealed to me even a little was the Shadow Creature template. She gets the weapon proficiencies and doesn't spend more than +1 CR getting them... but now she's a very different kind of creature really. Bleah.

    (I also like the idea of taking the half-marilith template and applying it to a lamia matriarch, but it's not really the most efficient thing to do nor is it going in the direction that I want the character to go in.)

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    I've been looking at something like this for Pathfinder (where there are built in rules for playing as any monster, using CR as what 3.x would call ECL). I know this is a 3.5 thread, but maybe somebody would consider this useful. (And unfortunately, I can't back-port this into 3.5 as I can't find a 3.5 version of the lamia noble.)
    Page 206, Expedition to the Demonweb Pits.

    But then for 3.5 it's actually made very easy. Under 3.5, Lamia Nobles are Monstrous Humanoids, who are deemed proficient with any weapon mentioned in their statblock. Lamia Nobles have composite shortbows, which luckily are martial weapons.


    ... and actually that means the Lamia Noble is close to qualifying for Abjurant Champion, because on a second look it's got Combat Casting but doesn't have an Abjuration spell known. Huh. One more to add.

    Automatic proficiency with all martial weapons doesn't come easy under 3.5 outside Fighter or a martial class. It takes the Outsider type, or a capstone PrC like Monk 20, or a spell like Lesser Holy Transformation which has to then be persisted.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Titan in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Janni into Horizon Walker — you just need to change the level 1 feat to Educated, or similar.
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


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  11. - Top - End - #41
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Aerial Avenger (Dragon #319)

    Prerequisites:
    Base Reflex Save: +3
    Skills: Tumble 5 ranks
    Feats: Dodge, Mobility
    Special: Must have fly speed or ability to cast fly at least twice per day.

    Monsters who qualify:
    Banshee (Monster Manual 2) (CR 17), Ragewind (Monster Manual 2) (CR 19), Ruin Chanter (Monster Manual 5 (CR 14)

    Monsters who are close:

    SRD: Huge Air Elemental, Primal Air Elemental (CR 7, 35), Solar Angel (CR 23), Atropal (CR 30), Bralani (CR 6), Chichimec (CR 21), Couatl (CR 10), Djinni (CR 5), Dread Wraith (CR 11), Efreeti (CR 8), Erinyes (CR 8), Ha-Naga (CR 22), Janni (CR 4), Phane (CR 35), Pit Fiend (CR 20), Shadow of the Void (CR 26), Greater Shadow (CR 8), Shape of Fire (CR 26), Succubus (CR 7), Will o' Wisp (CR 6)
    Monster Manual 2: Amnizu Devil (CR 7), Chaos Roc (CR 17), Cloaked Ape (CR 2), Cloud Ray (CR 16), Crimson Death (CR 11), Great Fihyr (CR 15), Desmodu Guard Bat (CR 3), Malebranche Devil (CR 9), Marrash (CR 5), Spirit of the Land (CR 23), Zovvut Demon (CR 9)
    Monster Manual 3: Advanced Deathshrieker (CR 19), Geriviar (CR 19), Nycaloth (CR 10), Petal (CR 1)
    Monster Manual 4:) Cyclonic Ravager (CR 15), Whisper Demon (CR 9),
    Monster Manual 5: Frostwind Virago (CR 16), Hound of the Hunt (CR 18), Steelwing (CR 14), Tirbana Spawner (CR 5), ,



    Missing:
    - Dodge and/or Mobility; and/or
    - Tumble ranks are less than or equal to 5; and/or
    - No Tumble ranks and the skill is cross-class.

    Suggestions for qualifying:
    - Flaw feats to pick up Dodge, Mobility
    - Flaw feat to pick up Open Mind to obtain Tumble ranks. May need 2 iterations of the feat if Tumble is cross-class to the monster.
    - Nether Creature template (Dragon #297) can be applied to any living creature, adds Dodge, Mobility and Toughness for a +1 to CR, but changes type to undead.
    - Vampire template (SRD) grants Dodge and arguably a fly speed via the alternate form.

    Note:
    - Nycaloths somehow have Mobility without having its prerequisite Dodge.
    Any monster that meets the prerequisites except for having a Fly speed

    Suggestions for qualifying:
    - Animals, Giants, Humanoids, Monstrous humanoids, or Vermin Type: Apply the Winged Creature Template (Savage Species). Raises CR by 1.
    - Large or Huge Animal, Beast, or Vermin Type: Apply the Chimeric Creature Template (Monster Manual 2). CR 9 or CR +1 of base creature, whichever is higher.
    Any monster only missing a base Reflex +3 saving throw

    Suggestions for qualifying:
    - Any Animal, Dragon, Air Elemental, Fire Elemental, Fey, Magical Beast, Monstrous Humanoid, or Outsider with 3+ Hit Dice has a +3 Reflex base saving throw.
    - Any Aberration, Giant, Plant, Undead, or Vermin with 9+ Hit Dice has a +3 Reflex base saving throw.

    (Edits forthcoming...)

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kaleph's Avatar

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    The last version of the sharn (Anauroch - the empire of shades) qualifies for mystic theurge.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Metastachydium's Avatar

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Permit me to reach for some low-hanging fruit here, namely
    TACTICAL SOLDIERMH. Straying no farther than the MM, we find not one, but at least two statblocks that need not be altered in any way for the critter to autoqualify: the Vrock and the Ice Devil. If we can switch out feats, there are a lot more, especially among the outsiders, including (but not limited to) Angels (all) (as well as Monadic but not Movanic Devas) (one feat needs swapping out), the Barghest (it's missing one required feat, but that's Cleave so two swaps are needed) and all MM Genies (v. Barghest; DaosMoP and MaridsMoP, in the meantime have Cleave by default, so they only need Combat Reflexes which they do have the slots for).

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MornShine's Avatar

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Mindspy!
    Very easy to qualify for.

    Hobgoblin Warsoul qualifies outright (CR 8), Hobgoblin Warcaster qualifies if it gets detect thoughts in its spellbook (it alreadycasts 2nd-level spells as a wizard), I expect many many more.
    Avatar by the gracious and talented smutmulch!

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: [DM Helper] Instant Prestige Class, Just Add Monster

    Aeromancer (Dragon #308)

    Prerequisites:
    Knowledge (Arcana) - 14 ranks
    Knowledge (Nature) - 5 ranks
    Feats: Any two metamagic feats
    Special: Access to, and ability to cast the spells Gust of Wind and Control Weather.

    Monsters who qualify:
    Worm That Walks (SRD) (CR 26)

    Note:
    - Worm That Walks has no typical spells and can cast any spells it could while a living character.

    Monsters who are close:
    SRD: Aboleth Mage (CR 17), Neh-Thalggu (CR 26)
    Monster Manual 2: Arcanaloth (CR 17), Mind Flayer Sorcerer (CR 17), Queen of Chaos (CR 24)
    Monster Manual 3: Ak'chazar Rakshasha (CR 15)

    Missing:
    - 5 ranks Knowledge Nature and/or
    - 2 Metamagic Feats

    Suggestions for Qualifying:
    - Flaw feats for Open Minded and metamagic.

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