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2022-05-12, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Gender
Does Diehard interact with Nonlethal damage?
So, say you have 100 hit points, take 50 damage, and 51 nonlethal damage. Typically, that means you'd be unconscious. Does Diehard interact with this in any way? If it does, does it basically mean you need to take another 51 real damage before you actually drop? I mean, sure, you were staggered and effectively taking 1 bleed / round that whole time, but that seems a reasonable exchange, if you have access to damage conversion like that.
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2022-05-12, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Does Diehard interact with Nonlethal damage?
Imho Diehard doesn't help you here. It sole works when you are into negative HP. Thus non-lethal dmg could be seen as a counter for Diehard.
Fits my imagination of the Diehard ability.
If you want protection against non-lethal, you have to look elsewhere.Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
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Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
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2022-05-12, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2018
Re: Does Diehard interact with Nonlethal damage?
By RAW, Gruftzwerg has it right--the diehard feat doesn't help in this scenario. IMO it would be fine to rule otherwise and provide that extra ten-hp buffer though; it's certainly not unbalancing to do so considering how weak diehard is.
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2022-05-12, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
- Location
- Sub-Prime Material Plane
- Gender
Re: Does Diehard interact with Nonlethal damage?
In fact, a responsible DM needs to houserule Diehard to interact positively with nonlethal damage, or the Frenzied Berserker class becomes laughably weak.
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2022-05-12, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Does Diehard interact with Nonlethal damage?
Deathless Frenzy (Ex): At 4th level and higher, a frenzied berserker can scorn death and unconsciousness while in a frenzy.
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So, nothing where you need to touch on "Diehard", it's sole a problem of Deathless Frenzy being poorly worded.
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But I agree with FauxKnee that some DM fiat wouldn't hurt here much (unless used for some kind of exploit).Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
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2022-05-13, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
Re: Does Diehard interact with Nonlethal damage?
Indeed, nonlethal damage is the go-to when dealing with things like Boars. Nonlethal damage KOs you if you exceed hitpoint total, so the ability to stay conscious at negative hitpoints doesn't really help in any way.
Of course I remember this Razortusk encounter where the damn things had fast healing 10 and DR5-, so we just had to kill them the hard way because letting them fast heal both the damage and the nonlethal damage was way too much of a PITA.
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2022-05-14, 12:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Gender
Re: Does Diehard interact with Nonlethal damage?
Speaking of which: If a character has 50 hp, and takes 49 damage, and 2 nonlethal, he's knocked out, regardless of diehard.
But if he takes 2 more damage, he's now in negatives, and is back up, or are the nonlethal rules overriding that?
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2022-05-14, 03:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Does Diehard interact with Nonlethal damage?
Diehard itself lacks the permission (by RAW) to help you in this situation:
Originally Posted by Diehard
The last sentence confirms this that if you choose not to act, you fall unconscious. And you can't fall unconscious if you already are.
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Houserule suggestion:
Imho the Diehard feat lacks a "Special:" line where it should say that it interacts with the nonlethal damage rules. Would be at least a good houserule adjustment.Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)