OOTS #1257 - The Discussion Thread

[gatemansgc]

language roy, LANGUAGE!

[Peelee]

You mean the most popular actor whose most iconic style happens to match Roy's?

Doesn't sound like Roy. Roy curses a lot. Roy should be played by Jonah Hill. He's the record-holder, after all.

...Roy curses a lot? He barely curses at all, except for this one scene. Would you also say that Roy dates a lot of sylphs? Roy dies a lot? Roy insults fortune tellers mothers a lot? You're extrapolating a huge amount here.

Notwithstanding that Sam Jackson's "iconic style" is more akin to "plays the same character in most movies he's in and and curses when the script tells him to", of course.

[gatemansgc]

... On a more serious note... it's too bad Roy didn't hear the part where Xykon says "you can stay inside, I'm staying here." Separated from his support. All alone.

yeah that would be too easy though!

[Liquor Box]

Ambushing team evil when they emerged from the cave was a good plan and that's been ruined now.

But I wonder if the present tactical situation may be even better with Xykon and the rest of team evil being apart from one another. They are still withing shouting distance now, but there seems to be a chance that Xykon will wander off and isolate himself. So might attacking either Xykon, or his allies, separately be even better than ambushing the party together?

I wonder if they can somehow disable to the teleport function and make it even more difficult for the two parts of the team to reconnect.

[JT]

I wonder if they can somehow disable to the teleport function and make it even more difficult for the two parts of the team to reconnect.

If Serini could strand groups of people trying to find the gate by disabling the teleport -- leaving the baddies in a dungeon full of high-level monsters, with no physical or magical escape -- I don't think she would have just run a delay game against Xykon and company.

[danielxcutter]

Also, Cleric spells can help them get back easily anyways. Plane Shift + Gate, Word of Recall, Miracle...

[Thermophille]

...Roy curses a lot? He barely curses at all, except for this one scene.

I do believe that mightn't have been the joke.

[aabicus]

Man, I feel like this thread has some sort of landspeed record for quantity of posters missing each other's jokes

[Vikenlugaid]

Who is that crayon-drawn dragon standing next to I assume Kraagor and Serini?

And why would Sunny draw Kraagor? did they meet? not to mention the snarl...

[Liquor Box]

Also, Cleric spells can help them get back easily anyways. Plane Shift + Gate, Word of Recall, Miracle...

If he happens to have any of those memorised.

[Michaeler]

I had to look back and check that the crayon pages didn't look like that. Would be too funny if Sunny ended up having drawn the whole comic.

[Sargraz]

Well, if the "junior detectives" don't find the trap there is always tomorrow
But of course, Redcloak knows something is wrong

I Wonder: If a line-trap was destroyed after someone has crossed it, would that trap them in a dungeon with no exit (barring teleport)?

[rasborry]

Dear lord, that's the loudest profanity I've ever heard!

[Mic_128]

And why would Sunny draw Kraagor? did they meet? not to mention the snarl...

It wouldn't be unlikely for Serini to have had story time with Sunny and told him about her adventures with the Scribbles, not to mention what the gate she's protecting is keeping locked away.

[ManuelSacha]

"I curse when it's appropriate."
--Simon Tam

[masamune1]

I think Roy is losing what little respect Serini was developing for him in this scene- she still doubts they can take Xykon and Roy thinking they can take them with just a well-coordinated but rushed ambush isn't going to win him any favours with her.

Hopefully she might have a better plan (that she doubts will work either but one that respects Xykon's power nevertheless) which will give a bit more meaning to this side-quest as we enter The Endgame.

Also, I guess now is a good time for O-Chul to mention they have a man on the inside.

[Arin]

This may be the ultimate nitpick, but... in a demonstrably polytheistic world, wouldn't it be godSdamn? :)

[masamune1]

This may be the ultimate nitpick, but... in a demonstrably polytheistic world, wouldn't it be godSdamn? :)

The world and all the gods were created by a single supreme god, a Giant.

Perhaps it should be "Rich dammit!"

[pendell]

:rollseyes: disappointed in Roy. First, because disappointment happens. In war, you can't get too attached to any one plan because things change, and change fast. Flexibility is key.

I've known military people. Those who lose their **** over stuff like this don't last long. Too excitable for anything serious.

Then, too, it's probably extremely fortunate for the order because if they had managed an impromptu ambush of Xykon and co in the tunnels, the likely result would be that Xykon would kill them all. Even with the order at near full strength and Team Evil drained from the tunnel monsters, the CR calculator still says "impossible".

OOTS cannot defeat Team Evil in a standup fight. They've tried repeatedly, lost every time since they left Dorukan's dungeon. The last time they fought Team Evil left after leaving them a summoned monster to contend with, and that proved to be a nontrivial encounter.

It's going to take cleverness and maybe some kind of Macguffin to see off Xykon. Maybe feed him to the snarl or something? I don't see One Rings to throw into any volcanoes, which is how these kind of stories usually get resolved.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Resileaf]

OOTS cannot defeat Team Evil in a standup fight.

Ambushing Team Evil when they come out of the tunnel is the opposite of a standup fight.

[masamune1]

Ambushing Team Evil when they come out of the tunnel is the opposite of a standup fight.

Yes, it's worse. It's standing with your back against a wall in an enclosed space against someone who can blast meteors out of his hands.

It was a pretty bad plan, to be honest.

[Resileaf]

Yes, it's worse. It's standing with your back against a wall in an enclosed space against someone who can blast meteors out of his hands.

It was a pretty bad plan, to be honest.

It's standing with your back against a tunnel, in an enclosed space, with every buff spell you can think of cast upon yourself, with an entire round where you can attack and the enemy can't do anything to defend itself. If the trap is deactivated when Xykon leaves and Redcloak and Oona are still in the tunnel behind him, it's also an ambush where Xykon is alone.

[danielxcutter]

Yes, it's worse. It's standing with your back against a wall in an enclosed space against someone who can blast meteors out of his hands.

It was a pretty bad plan, to be honest.

They know him well enough that they expect that to be the first spell he opens up with. There is absolutely no way they don't include a Mass Resist Energy(fire) in their buffs.

[Peelee]

I do believe that mightn't have been the joke.

Spoiler: Me

Show

[Wraithfighter]

:rollseyes: disappointed in Roy. First, because disappointment happens. In war, you can't get too attached to any one plan because things change, and change fast. Flexibility is key.

I've known military people. Those who lose their **** over stuff like this don't last long. Too excitable for anything serious.

First, its been a long day, and things have already been changing a lot beat after beat after beat. This is at least the fifth time he's had to massively adjust his plans based on new info or someone else doing something surprising/incredibly-stupid *just today*, I think he's allowed to be a mite frustrated.

Second, there's a general rule I have with webcomics: Don't take the final panel(s) too literally. Webcomics, particularly the ones that try to be funny every time, will often stretch a character's actions or attitudes or level of idiocy or whatever in the final panel to be in service of a joke. It still should be broadly in character, but it's going to be playing things up/down as needed in order to fit in a joke.

In this case? Roy having a curse-laden meltdown. It's not exactly out of character, but it's more in service of comedy than character in the end.

[Coppercloud]

Second, there's a general rule I have with webcomics: Don't take the final panel(s) too literally. Webcomics, particularly the ones that try to be funny every time, will often stretch a character's actions or attitudes or level of idiocy or whatever in the final panel to be in service of a joke. It still should be broadly in character, but it's going to be playing things up/down as needed in order to fit in a joke.

Even Belkar comments on this in 650: "You can't take anything I say in the last panel seriously!"

[Liquor Box]

OOTS cannot defeat Team Evil in a standup fight. They've tried repeatedly, lost every time since they left Dorukan's dungeon. The last time they fought Team Evil left after leaving them a summoned monster to contend with, and that proved to be a nontrivial encounter.

They've tried zero time since Dorukon's dungeon. Roy and enhanced V tried to solo Xykon and failed. Dorukan's dungeon is the only time the Order took on team evil, and they won.

Not disagreeing that Team Evil is more powerful and more likely to win a stand up fight, but your assessment of the history is misleading.

:rollseyes: disappointed in Roy. First, because disappointment happens. In war, you can't get too attached to any one plan because things change, and change fast. Flexibility is key.

I've known military people. Those who lose their **** over stuff like this don't last long. Too excitable for anything serious.

Perhaps when it happens because a neutral party springs an ambush for little reason a few curse words are more appropriate.

[pendell]

They've tried zero time since Dorukon's dungeon. Roy and enhanced V tried to solo Xykon and failed. Dorukan's dungeon is the only time the Order took on team evil, and they won.

Not disagreeing that Team Evil is more powerful and more likely to win a stand up fight, but your assessment of the history is misleading.


Perhaps when it happens because a neutral party springs an ambush for little reason a few curse words are more appropriate.

You're right. Roy has had a miserable day so I should definitely cut him some slack. That's serious, not sarcastic.

Still, I hope that after he's finished his scream therapy -- which I agree, he needs -- I hope that he can sober up and look on the bright side.

1) No one in the Order is Dead . That is a significant step up from the last book.
2) The party is united. They aren't split and following three different subplots while he sits on a cloud being snarked at by his dad.
3) They are more powerful than they've ever been, not only in terms of level but in terms of new allies: They've acquired a second cleric, an epic-level rogue, two high-level paladins, and a collection of monster allies, including an eye ... tyrant? Doesn't seem right for Sunny's personality. Eye puppy, maybe?
4) They evaded combat with Team Evil. I know that there are some here arguing that they would have won the ambush battle, but as I said, I'm not convinced. Even with all their buffs Xykon is a very, very tough fight. To say nothing of Xykon+Redcloak+MITD. I'm not even counting Oona and her friend whose name I forget, but they aren't insignificant either.

punch in the numbers yourself . Even in an ambush, this is a bad, bad matchup. I think the ambush+weakness of xykon cuts the difficulty level down from "impossible" to "extremely difficult", but I don't see this fight ending without at least half the party needing a trip to the local temple for a resurrection.

*Thinking*

How Is the OOTS going to defeat Team Evil?

Well, the first thing to consider is that Xykon may have left the caverns, but Redcloak and the other members are still in the cave. Time to indulge in some pawn grabbing? If they don't want to kill Redcloak in order to be able to deal with the Dark One, maybe they can beat him into submission, then tie&gag? I've never seen that he's taken Still Spell or silent casting feats.

Although, come to think of it, Redcloak is not the only possible channel to the Dark One. If they must kill him, take the Crimson Mantle and find another goblinoid cleric willing to literally shoulder the burden.

Another possibility is if O-chul is able to convince the MITD to defect during combat. While we don't know what it is yet, I'm not sure there's anything on OOTS world that can stand up to the MITD in a combat encounter. I suspect even Xykon's going to have trouble.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[mjasghar]

What 2nd cleric? They already have a 2nd cleric from the dwarf book, no extra one in this one.

[Vikenlugaid]

They know him well enough that they expect that to be the first spell he opens up with. There is absolutely no way they don't include a Mass Resist Energy(fire) in their buffs.

He knows that at least to of them are warded against fire so probably he will superb dispell first, and they know that he knows.