Need help understanding how to build a concept

[Max Caysey]

So...

I have been asked to participate in a 5th edition game. Which I haven't tried yet. I have been asked what I want to play. And I want to play a smooth talking, criminal/ information broker.

Were are talking someone like Raymond Reddington (Blacklist)/ Charles Augustus Magnussen (Sherlock)/ The Merovingian (Matrix). Someone who deals in information. Someone who is exceptional in gathering information and using said information as a way of dealing with challenges or simply avoid them all together...

He needs to be able to have strong social skills and leadership capabilities. Be someone who can either intimidate or use coercive diplomacy to get what he wants... like the above mentioned characters.

How would I go about building such a character? Which classes, feats, skills, items etc. should I chose to effectively become one of those above mentioned characters?

I'm not interested in combat at all... frankly the goal is to avoid it by using smooth talking and information to negate situations where combat might arise...

I'm new to 5th so I don't know where to start here. But that is the concept I would like to play... never played a criminal mastermind before... thinking it could be a fun challenge... especially seeing as he does not want to fight... he has followers for that! :)

Any help would be grand!

Cheers!

[KorvinStarmast]

I have been asked to participate in a 5th edition game. Which I haven't tried yet. I have been asked what I want to play. And I want to play a smooth talking, criminal/ information broker.

He needs to be able to have strong social skills and leadership capabilities. Be someone who can either intimidate or use coercive diplomacy to get what he wants... like the above mentioned characters.

I'm not interested in combat at all... frankly the goal is to avoid it by using smooth talking and information to negate situations where combat might arise...

While there is a Mastermind Rogue sub class, it may not do what you want it to do. I'd suggest a bard, either College of Lore, Whispers, or Glamour.
Bard due to skill proficiencies in profusion (espectially if you take the half elf race, that adds two more)
Bard also for expertise in a few skills.
Bard for social skills.

And you can be pure support, almost no combat, with all other spells, but you must know this: 5e is a bit combat heavy, so you have to be able to contribute to combat when it happens. You don't need to be a damage dealer, just buff, debuff, misdirect, confuse. All of those are well within a bard's wheel house.

You'll want Skill Proficiency in Deception, Persuasion, Insight, and Investigation as a minimum. (If you want to lean heavily into Reddington, Performance may now and again be useful).

For extra languages, if that's necessary, take Sage or Noble background.

Those are my out of the box suggestions, doubtless you'll get others. I suggest to not Multiclass since this is your first 5e character.

Intimidation will need to be in a group context since you want to gimp yourself for combat, but, your desire to intimidate may point to Bard, College of Whispers, so that you can can occasionally scare the bejeezuz out of someone with the level 3 ability (Words of Terror) and you can impersonate someone who just died using Mantle of Whispers (level 6 ability).
(That sub class is in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. If you are limited to PHB, take College of Lore and don't look back).

[Unoriginal]

So...

I have been asked to participate in a 5th edition game. Which I haven't tried yet. I have been asked what I want to play. And I want to play a smooth talking, criminal/ information broker.

Were are talking someone like Raymond Reddington (Blacklist)/ Charles Augustus Magnussen (Sherlock)/ The Merovingian (Matrix). Someone who deals in information. Someone who is exceptional in gathering information and using said information as a way of dealing with challenges or simply avoid them all together...

He needs to be able to have strong social skills and leadership capabilities. Be someone who can either intimidate or use coercive diplomacy to get what he wants... like the above mentioned characters.

How would I go about building such a character? Which classes, feats, skills, items etc. should I chose to effectively become one of those above mentioned characters?

I'm not interested in combat at all... frankly the goal is to avoid it by using smooth talking and information to negate situations where combat might arise...

I'm new to 5th so I don't know where to start here. But that is the concept I would like to play... never played a criminal mastermind before... thinking it could be a fun challenge... especially seeing as he does not want to fight... he has followers for that! :)

Any help would be grand!

Cheers!

Do you know which level the character will be, and how long the campaign will be? This affect a few things.

Criminal Background Mastermind or Inquisitive Rogue/Eloquence or Whisper Bard sounds like what you want.

[solidork]

I'm not interested in combat at all... frankly the goal is to avoid it by using smooth talking and information to negate situations where combat might arise...

I'm new to 5th so I don't know where to start here. But that is the concept I would like to play... never played a criminal mastermind before... thinking it could be a fun challenge... especially seeing as he does not want to fight... he has followers for that! :)

Well, firstly I'd make sure that this aspect of the concept is something that will be appropriate for the game you're playing in. If your GM or the other players are expecting to run a game of straightforward heroic adventurers, or even anything where combat is a significant recurring challenge (which is most 5e games), someone uninterested in participating in that kind of thing isn't an appropriate character and you should do something else.

Secondly, unless you try really hard your character is going to be decent at fighting stuff. Most class mechanics relate to combat.

Lastly, there is very little mechanical weight to the kinds of activities you're interested in pursuing beyond rolling skill checks. You can absolutely play a skillfull manipulator and investigator, but it's going to depend more on your actual ability to do those things than you might like. There really aren't mechanical hooks to gamify that kind of thing the way there are in other systems.

[Unoriginal]

Well, firstly I'd make sure that this aspect of the concept is something that will be appropriate for the game you're playing in. If your GM is expecting to run a game of straightforward heroic adventurers, or even anything where combat is a significant recurring challenge (which is most 5e games), someone uninterested in participating in that kind of thing isn't an appropriate character and you should do something else.

Secondly, unless you try really hard your character is going to be decent at fighting stuff. Most class mechanics relate to combat.

Lastly, there is very little mechanical weight to the kinds of activities you're interested in pursuing beyond rolling skill checks. You can absolutely play a skillfull manipulator and investigator, but it's going to depend more on your actual ability to do those things than you might like. There really aren't mechanical hooks to gamify that kind of thing the way there are in other systems.

Those are important points. Especially the one about talking with the DM to make sure the character you want to play fits the campaign concept.

[Max Caysey]

Well, firstly I'd make sure that this aspect of the concept is something that will be appropriate for the game you're playing in. If your GM or the other players are expecting to run a game of straightforward heroic adventurers, or even anything where combat is a significant recurring challenge (which is most 5e games), someone uninterested in participating in that kind of thing isn't an appropriate character and you should do something else.

Secondly, unless you try really hard your character is going to be decent at fighting stuff. Most class mechanics relate to combat.

Lastly, there is very little mechanical weight to the kinds of activities you're interested in pursuing beyond rolling skill checks. You can absolutely play a skillfull manipulator and investigator, but it's going to depend more on your actual ability to do those things than you might like. There really aren't mechanical hooks to gamify that kind of thing the way there are in other systems.

Indeed good points. The fun for me was trying to make a non-combat build work in a "classic" game, but indeed, I wouldn't want my fun to be detrimental to the other players or DM.

So if there is little game mechanics to gamify such a conceptial characters how does one play that character typer in a 5th ed game? I don't assume the game assumes that I IRL sitting around the table am able to say or do things that the a character like the Reddinton would? I mean the game does not rely in real would sword figthing abilities so why would it rely in real world social abilities? Im confused?

[Unoriginal]

So if there is little game mechanics to gamify such a conceptial characters how does one play that character typer in a 5th ed game?

Mostly you RP with NPCs and do Charisma ability checks when relevant.

[solidork]

Indeed good points. The fun for me was trying to make a non-combat build work in a "classic" game, but indeed, I wouldn't want my fun to be detrimental to the other players or DM.

So if there is little game mechanics to gamify such a conceptial characters how does one play that character typer in a 5th ed game? I don't assume the game assumes that I IRL sitting around the table am able to say or do things that the a character like the Reddinton would? I mean the game does not rely in real would sword figthing abilities so why would it rely in real world social abilities? Im confused?

I just meant that if your DM asks you "What do you say to convince him?" or "What lie do you tell him?" or "What threat do you make?", coming up with good answers to those can come down to more than what is on your character sheet. This is sort of the way it has always been for "face" type characters, coming up with a particularly good argument/lie/threat typically makes the DC of the check lower. Other games have more involved social interaction systems, but 5e is pretty loose when it comes to skill checks.

[KorvinStarmast]

he does not want to fight... he has followers for that! :)

Discuss this in detail with your DM, not us strangers on the internet.
That style in 5e requires DM buy in.

[Speely]

Great advice given so far. If I had to make a one-stop-shop recommendation for a first 5e PC, though, I would go Bard. College of Glamour. They have a bit of combat utility that is definitely not offensive in nature (it's command and leadership-driven) but they shine in social situations where their actions can seriously affect the social dynamic of pivotal scenes. Like, a lot, and that's where I am assuming you want to shine.

They also have great leadership abilities baked into them, and they can be as devious as any Bard (more than most.)

I wouldn't worry about feats until you've capped Charisma. It's just a net gain that will work for you on every level (as with most Bards.) For half-feats (those that raise Charisma by 1 but provide other benefits) consider Actor. Take Expertise in Investigation for sure since your Intelligence will almost certainly be lower than Charisma and it's a pretty important skill for this character theme.

The downside of this is that "Glamour" is a bit thematically off unless you consider the more Fey side of it rather than the way we use the term irl. Don't let the terminology scare you off. It's manipulation, misdirection, and command.

Don't worry about combat too much. Bards get tons of control and support options and can contribute lots to combat encounters without doing 1 point of damage. Like, you almost have to TRY to not be useful in combat in order to be so.

[Kane0]

Criminal or spy background

Decent Int, Wis and Cha scores (12+)

Any race with extra skill profs for Investigation/Insight, something with Telepathy or maybe some shapechanging for intrigue and infiltration

Plenty of class options:
Bard (Whispers or Eloquence)
Rogue (Inquisitive or Mastermind)
Sorcerer (Aberrant)
Cleric (Knowledge or trickery)
Wizard (Enchanter or Diviner)
Warlock (GoO with Tome or Chain)
Ranger (Fey)
Fighter (Battlemaster with the check boosting maneuvers)

Feats you might want to consider are Skill Expert, Telepathic, Eldritch Adept, Metamagic Adept, Magic Initiate and Lucky

[Witty Username]

Bard may be what you are looking for.
Bard is primarily a support caster with strong social capabilities. In combat you would be more staying out of the way or casting beneficial spells. This of a character that doesn't get into the muck of things but finds ways for others to do so as needed.
I would point to lore bard if you like the idea of staying in the phb, focused around more spells and wits.
But whispers may fit nicely with your theme, a bit more combat oriented but also more about being sneaky and planting ideas in people's heads.

[Unoriginal]

Being able to cast Detect Thoughts without being noticed (like with the Telepathy feat, or as a Sorcerer with Subtle Spell) is amazing for this.

[J-H]

5e usually has several ways to accomplish a given concept. Here's my pick for the top 3:

1) Rogue: You get lots of skills, Expertise in some, and several subclasses (mastermind, inquisitive, assassin, swashbuckler) support a somewhat social rogue with abilities that key off Charisma - some more than others. You can function at range or in melee for damage as well. Relatively low magic, so you'll want to bring along plenty of tools (climber's kit, thieves tools, etc.). Don't forget caltrops and ball bearings for cheap crowd control options.

2) Warlock: Pick your patron, but take a familiar for your 3rd level feature. You get an invisible ranged scout. You can get Disguise Self at will at level 2 for infiltration, as well as proficiency in 2 social skills at the cost of another invocation. Great Old One gives you single-target telepathy. You can get Invisibility 2x/short rest by level 3. You are not as quiet as a rogue, but you're a lot less visible and can disguise yourself more easily without depending on magic items or extensive prep-time and disguise kits. Your casting is Charisma-focused, so your CHA score should be high, buffing your numbers even more.

3) Bard: You get lots of skills, Expertise in a few (depending on subclass), and half proficiency in all the other skills. You can buff allies and have access to a variety of enchantment and illusion spells and related class features. Your casting is Charisma-focused, so your CHA score should be high, buffing your numbers even more.

[RogueJK]

As noted, there are a number of ways to do this. It's going to come down to what you want to do besides being a smooth-talking criminal information broker... All of the below will be capable of filling your character concept, but will each have different options beyond that, especially in combat.

If you want to be able to deal large amounts of weapon damage and be better at additional skills, plus have the ability to easily grant Advantage to allies, go with a Mastermind Rogue.
If you want to be able to support your allies with spells and abilities, and be especially good at smooth-talking using Persuasion and Deception, go with an Eloquence Bard.
If you want to be able to deal decent amounts of spell damage, and have nifty creative abilities and handy utility options via Invocations, go with an Archfey Warlock.
If you want to have access to a wide range of spellcasting, and be more of a psychic/psionic manipulator, go with an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer.

And any of those options can be slotted onto a basic DEX/CHA Half Elf character build like this (assuming Point Buy):
STR 8
DEX 15+1
CON 13+1
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 15+2
Racial/Class/Background Skills: Perception, Insight, Deception, Persuasion, Acrobatics, Stealth (+1 more for Bard, or +2 more for Rogue)
ASIs: +1 CHA half feat like Skill Expert, Elven Accuracy, or Shadow Touched first, then +2 DEX, followed by the Inspiring Leader feat

[Corran]

He needs to be able to have strong social skills and leadership capabilities. Be someone who can either intimidate or use coercive diplomacy to get what he wants... like the above mentioned characters.

So what does your character want?

To echo the other posters, DM buy in is required. You can smooth talk, intimidate and blackmail all you like, but the DM is playing the characters reacting to your efforts and thus the one determining how probable to succeed your efforts will be.

Besides roleplaying and ability checks, there are also spells that can be useful for influencing how people react and for gathering information.

[Max Caysey]

Thanks for all the replies so far! They are great! Naturally I would talk to not only my DM but other players as well before introducing such a character...

So what does your character want?

To echo the other posters, DM buy in is required. You can smooth talk, intimidate and blackmail all you like, but the DM is playing the characters reacting to your efforts and thus the one determining how probable to succeed your efforts will be.

Besides roleplaying and ability checks, there are also spells that can be useful for influencing how people react and for gathering information.

Well I really want to be the leader of a spy-network, where I use my followers to investigate, gather information and research enemies and quests that we are sendt on... Basically either subverting the need for combat or giving us information about what we will meet before we actually stand in the middle of it. Then depending on the challenge, I would let my followers do most of the legwork, while I further scheme and research ways to improve the party situation... earn/ steal money which items to get and from where to get them... That way I can sort of mitigate the challenges the DM puts forth... and that would be my main contribution.

Lets say we need to clear a temple. I would then aks my followers, which would need to be actual spies, to investigate said temple, clerics, etc, so we would have actionable intelligence that would give us an edge. That could be a map of the complex, knowledge of priests there and what they do after hours... That might either result in easier infiltration/exfiltration or possible we can ambush/ assassinate the clerics somewhere other than the temple if we know where they live... stuff like that.

We might also be able to use the information to simply blackmail certain individuals to simple give us what they want... like protection money, deeds to realestate or items...

So the character will be a mix between a diplomancer and a minionmancer! At least thats what I would like to play... and be evil for once! Its just how to go about actually building a diplomancer/minionmancer in 5th which is the problem...

[Unoriginal]

Thanks for all the replies so far! They are great! Naturally I would talk to not only my DM but other players as well before introducing such a character...




Well I really want to be the leader of a spy-network, where I use my followers to investigate, gather information and research enemies and quests that we are sendt on... Basically either subverting the need for combat or giving us information about what we will meet before we actually stand in the middle of it. Then depending on the challenge, I would let my followers do most of the legwork, while I further scheme and research ways to improve the party situation... earn/ steal money which items to get and from where to get them... That way I can sort of mitigate the challenges the DM puts forth... and that would be my main contribution.

Lets say we need to clear a temple. I would then aks my followers, which would need to be actual spies, to investigate said temple, clerics, etc, so we would have actionable intelligence that would give us an edge. That could be a map of the complex, knowledge of priests there and what they do after hours... That might either result in easier infiltration/exfiltration or possible we can ambush/ assassinate the clerics somewhere other than the temple if we know where they live... stuff like that.

We might also be able to use the information to simply blackmail certain individuals to simple give us what they want... like protection money, deeds to realestate or items...

So the character will be a mix between a diplomancer and a minionmancer! At least thats what I would like to play... and be evil for once! Its just how to go about actually building a diplomancer/minionmancer in 5th which is the problem...

Main question is: what would the rest of the PCs do while your PC is doing that?

[da newt]

A warlock w/ the Mask of Many Faces invocation might be a good alternate - you can change your appearance at will.

[RogueJK]

A warlock w/ the Mask of Many Faces invocation might be a good alternate - you can change your appearance at will.

Also doable with any other non-Warlock CHA-focused character build, going Variant Human or Custom Lineage for your race and taking the Eldritch Adept feat at Level 1 to grab Mask of Many Faces.

Well I really want to be the leader of a spy-network, where I use my followers to investigate, gather information and research enemies and quests that we are sendt on... Basically either subverting the need for combat or giving us information about what we will meet before we actually stand in the middle of it. Then depending on the challenge, I would let my followers do most of the legwork, while I further scheme and research ways to improve the party situation... earn/ steal money which items to get and from where to get them... That way I can sort of mitigate the challenges the DM puts forth... and that would be my main contribution.

So the character will be a mix between a diplomancer and a minionmancer! At least thats what I would like to play... and be evil for once! Its just how to go about actually building a diplomancer/minionmancer in 5th which is the problem...

That's going to be tough to pull off, especially if you're starting at lower levels. Most PCs don't start out already being the master of a spy ring or leader of a thieves' guild. Rather, that's generally something that develops over the course of a long campaign.

The closest you're likely going to get is some of the Background abilities, a couple of which have similar capabilities, albeit significantly more limited. For example, the Criminal background gets you linked into a network of spies and contacts, but that's primarily just used for sending covert messages. Or the Knight background gets you a few servants/retainers, which you could refluff as informers/minions, but it's going to be up to the DM as to their actual infiltration/investigation capabilities.

Typically, if you're wanting to infiltrate a temple to collect information about the clerics within, that infiltration would be handled by the party itself. This allows for greater "on-screen action" and gives the other players at your table something to do, rather than them just sitting there while you say "I send my minions to solve the problem... Okay, the problem got solved off screen... Wasn't that fun?"

[Speely]

Main question is: what would the rest of the PCs do while your PC is doing that?

This is a very good question. In all likelihood, the rest of the party is at least partly composed of combatant types, or at least more hands-on problem solvers. This PC sounds like they risk taking agency and play time away from the others by devoting time to minion NPCs who exist to help the party avoid encounters, and encounters are kind of the whole point of D&D.

[Max Caysey]

Main question is: what would the rest of the PCs do while your PC is doing that?

Well they would be doing the actual killing, ambushing, temple clearing, hostige rescue, etc... I would be making sure that they were as well prepared as possible to do the actual fighting by knowing the weaknesses of our enemies or how and what a given dungeon would contain. But I would shine during down-time the other players would shine doing up-time... at least that was my initial thought.

Again this has not been discussed with either the DM or the other players. The goal of this thread was to understand how I build a character like that in 5th. I know fully well how to do it in 3.X, but since I completely new to 5th I need help. Reason I havent talked to DM yet is because I want to flesh out the concept before starting, so I can give him a build guide from level 1-20 so he knows what I'm going for and how.

I knows its an alternative concept for a D&D game, but as my DM told me: "5th is better than 3.5 because you can play ANYTHING"... so I understood that to mean he was basically open to pretty much anything... Its a concept I have never tried playing, and being kind of bored of "classic" adventuring I wanted to try something new for the new edition :)

That's going to be tough to pull off if you're starting at lower levels. Most beginning PCs don't pop out of the gate in Tier 1 already being the master of a spy ring or leader of a thieves' guild. Rather, that's generally something that develops over the course of a long campaign.

True, but I would be working on that goal from the very begining... firstly by having the right class and abilities and gaining followers with the right abilities too... slowly but surely that would materialize into a spy network...

[KorvinStarmast]

I knows its an alternative concept for a D&D game, but as my DM told me: "5th is better than 3.5 because you can play ANYTHING"... so I understood that to mean he was basically open to pretty much anything... Its a concept I have never tried playing, and being kind of bored of "classic" adventuring I wanted to try something new for the new edition :)

1. Yes, there are very few, maybe no, trap options.
2. your spells and abilities can fail. NPCs get saving throws, or your contested skill check may not be a win for you. In 5e, you can try anything, but you are not guaranteed to succeed at everything.
3. A 1-20 build isn't necessary. I suggest you work your way through a 1-12 build, and as you approach level 11 or 12, if the campaign is going to continue, work on the Tier 3/4 adjustments then. The other characters will be doing their thing and you may find through play different ways to make the group better as a support caster. (Which is the role you fulfill along with network of people manager).
4. Spells like Suggestion and Mass suggestion get really interesting at higher levels and allow you to influence NPCs substantially. It is a little DM dependent, though.
5. I still think that Lore or Whispers Bard is probably your best bet. Max your Charisma/casting stat by level 8 is my suggestion, since you are leaning heavily into using your social skills to advance your character's goals. After that, there are a lot of options.
6. Magical Secrets. Go pure bard, and you get magical secrets sooner, not later. This allows you to cherry pick some sweet spells from ANY class at levels 10, 14, and 18, (and at 6 if you go Lore Bard). Do not underestimate how good this feature is. I used it to get Simulacrum at 14 - which had some huge social/espionage/intrigue benefits. Took wall of force at 10. Handy utility spell.
7. Feats: probably want Resilient con or War Caster to improve your concentration saves (Con Based) since a lot of your good Bard spells are concentration based.
8. Make sure to take prismatic spray when you can get level 7 spells. (This from experience). You may not use it often, but when you do it can seriously degrade a crowd of enemies.
9. If you make it to level 18, taking wish with magical secrets is a great way to, once again, cast more or less any spell from any class level 8 or lower once per day. This opens up a lot of flexibility for you.
10. I found that as I got into levels 10 and beyond that Blindness/Deafness was a great non concentration debuff spell. I also took Slow(it is now a bard spell per Tasha's, discuss with your DM) and it is worth a magical secret to take this. Great debuff on middle sized crowds of enemies.

[KittenMagician]

honestly i would go as follows

Lvl:thing to do
1:Half-elf bard with criminal background, gaining/taking deception, stealth, criminal contact feature, persuasion, insight, investigation, perception, intimidation. +2cha/+1dex/+1wis, message (cantrip), Vicious Mockery (cantrip, you want to be able to do a little damage), Charm Person, Bane, Comprehend Languages, Healing Word/Cure Wounds
2: learn the spell Unseen Servant
3: take college of elloquence (silver tongue makes persuasion/deception super good as your minimum d20 roll with them is 10 and unsettling words is great way to support ally spell casters yourself included) learn the spell hold person also gain expertise in persuasion and deception
4: Take the eldritch adept feat taking the mask of many faces invocation (disguise self at will) learn prestidigitation (cantrip) and invisibility (can be cast on rogue or other sneaky guy for infiltration/scouting)
5: learn bestow curse
6: learn sending
7: forget charm person and learn charm monster and dimension door
8: increase cha by 2 if able (if max or a +1 would max it out take the fey touched feat and take the command spell on top of the misty step you already get)
9: learn awaken (make a spy network of awakened animals and plants just make sure you are nice to them so they stay friendly)
10: gain expertise in insight and investigation, learn mending (cantrip) Learn Haste and polymorph
11: learn mass suggestion
12: max out charisma (if already max take warcaster (helps with concentration) or lucky (helps with everything))
13: learn mordenkainens magnificent mansion (safe space to sleep every long rest)
14: learn heal and simulacrum (duplicate yourself for more control/support or copy another party member for more damage or any number of shenanigans)
15: learn feeble mind (great control spell against most enemies, especially spell casters)
16: take the other feat between lucky and warcaster (prioritize lucky)
17: learn foresight or true polymorph (true polymorph yourself or an ally into an adult metallic dragon to be able to disguise yourself as a humanoid)
18: learn wish (replicate any spell you think is useful with no negative consequences) and the other between true polymorph and foresight
19: take whatever feat or stat increase you like (at this point it doesnt matter much)
20: there is nothing for you to do


as you level up i would look for magical items that expand your spells available (like one of the bardic instruments) and get a helm of comprehending languages and replace that spell with a different one that you deem worthy (this should be relatively easy as the helm is an uncommon item)

hopefully this is a good enough plan to present to your dm and it will hopefully be fun to play

[Kane0]

Again this has not been discussed with either the DM or the other players. The goal of this thread was to understand how I build a character like that in 5th. I know fully well how to do it in 3.X, but since I completely new to 5th I need help. Reason I havent talked to DM yet is because I want to flesh out the concept before starting, so I can give him a build guide from level 1-20 so he knows what I'm going for and how.

This might also be helpful, going from 3.5 to 5e:

Spoiler

Show

- Proficiency bonus is used for skill/ability checks, attacks and saving throws instead of BAB, save progressions and skill points. It's all based off Stat + Proficiency, and the numbers are lower and scale slower. HP and abilities/options are the primary differentiation between low and high levels.
- Due to reduced scaling of basic numbers (skills, attacks, damage, AC) it is expected that low CR creatures remain a threat to higher level parties in significant numbers. This is intended.

- You have a saving throw type for each attribute.
- You can't have a stat higher than 20 by normal means, nor a stat higher than 30 by any means.
- Movement is not an action, and actions can happen between movement. Bonus actions are like swifts, reactions are like immediates. No action can be traded for another type. You can also make one interaction (grab a weapon, open a door, etc) per turn for free.
- Attacking does not impede your ability to move (ie ‘Full Attack’) and you can in fact move between attacks if you have multiple.
- Attacks are classified oddly but they mostly boil down to a combination of [melee or ranged] and [weapon or spell]
- You cannot delay your turn, only ready an action.
- By default only one thing provokes an AoO: Moving out of a creatures reach.
- Learn the advantage / disadvantage mechanic, it replaces 90% of fiddly +1s and -2s.
- Dying works differently. You only die outright when you take damage equal to your max HP in one hit after reaching 0. When reduced to 0 you make saving throws, three successes stabilizes you and 3 failures you die. Taking damage while making death saves counts as one failure.
- Damage resistance, reduction and vulnerability is simplified. It's half damage, doesn't exist (as such) and double damage respectively.

- There are two kinds of rest: short and long. There are expected to be two short rests for every long on average, which is important to in balancing short rest classes (monk, warlock) against long rest classes (paladin, sorcerer).
- Everybody can heal via hit die, which are spent during short rests.

- Concentration is a thing casters should learn well. Most buff, debuff and control spells need concentration, and you can only concentrate on one thing at a time. You have a chance to lose concentration each time you take damage.
- There are relatively few permanent or near-permanent bonuses/buffs
- All casting is 'spontaneous', as in you don’t put individual spells into slots, you just have a collection of spells available to you and spell slots to fuel them with. Your spells will either be prepared or known based on class.
- High casting stat doesn’t give you additional spell slots, but does affect your spell attack bonus and spell DC (which is the same across all spell levels).
- Spells scale by spell slot rather than by caster level, which makes multiclassing considerably more friendly for casters
- Cantrips are notable now, offering viable damage output based on PC level not caster level
- There is a rule that restricts how many levelled spells you can cast on your turn, but it’s… complicated.

- Levels 1-3 are supposed to go by very quickly, and 4-5 fairly quickly. The majority of PC time is angled to be spent in the level 6-11 range.
- Encounter design and challenge rating is also different. A CR 6 enemy is an easy (little resource expenditure & low chance of falling) challenge for a level 6 party of 4, not an easy challenge for a single level 6 character. You are expected to deal with half a dozen or so medium encounters during an adventuring day, not one or two hard ones.
- Don't use any optional rules to start with. This includes multiclassing and feats.
- The core math of the game does not expect you to get magic items by default. You can play through levels 1 to 20 without seeing a magic item at all, anything you get/give is a bonus.

Golden Rule: Thou shalt not assume to know that which shares a name
Sneak attack works differently. Protection from Evil works differently. Critical hits work differently. Do not skim over things that look familiar because they are almost all different in subtle ways that become very apparent in play.

[Willowhelm]

The character is possible with 5e. In fact it is possible with just a high set of mental stats and any class/race/background. You just have to RP your decisions to work towards it. You’ll also need a DM that is on board because the opportunities are not presented during regular adventuring. They need a highly social campaign world or plenty of downtime between regular adventuring.

But as described your end goal seems like a npc, not an adventurer. If you’re in charge of this network… you’re hiring the PCs, you’re not doing the work yourself.

[Kane0]

Ooh, you should definitely look into the downtime rules as well, and check with your DM that downtime will be available. There are options specifically for doing research (digging for info), participating in crime (including espionage) and making friends/business contacts.

Edit: Xanathars also includes extra ways to make use of tool proficiencies, so take a look at things like calligraphy, forgery and cartography kits.

[Corran]

Well I really want to be the leader of a spy-network, where I use my followers to investigate, gather information and research enemies and quests that we are sendt on...

You dont need a spy network for this. You need to have contacts and leverage. A spy network exists to have an ongoing effect, meaning that you have to assume that something is always hapenning. Where would you expect to find a spy network? In a kingdom. Why? Because the king has too much to lose and he is constantly under threat. You didn't lose the kingdom the moment you got backstabbed by the conspiring nobles, or the moment the massive orc army started marching down from the mountains, or when your people overthrew you after months of hardships after the dwarves had closed the trade routes, or the moment the wizards' ritual backfired and ended up spawning a portal from where demons started coming through. You lost it little by little while these threats were taking form and growing, and you just realized it when it was too difficult or even impossible to stop them. And that's why the spy network exists and is operative 24/7. To identify the conspiring nobles and expose their treason so you can hung them before they succeed. To create disarmony between the orc tribes so that they keep fighting each other instead of uniting under a common ambitious and difficult to appease leader. To find dirt on important dwarven figures so you can blackmail into an advantageous trade deal. To keep an eye on what's going on in the wizards' council so if they want to perform anything remotely dangerous (either on purpose or by accident) you will be in a position where you can at least try to prevent it (or make ready for it). To inform you of the neighbouring kingdom's strengths and openings. Etc. And you usually need to ideologize a bit on top of everything else necessary to maintain it (so in this case it would be something like the safety of the realm/ royal family).

Adventurers are 99,9% of the time the aggressors. At least in most campaigns I would imagine. So you need to do some covert **** against the enemy of the day/week/month? You dont need an existing spy network for this. You need someone for a quick job.

Perhaps I am arguing over semantics. Let's think with examples.

Lets say we need to clear a temple. I would then aks my followers, which would need to be actual spies, to investigate said temple, clerics, etc, so we would have actionable intelligence that would give us an edge. That could be a map of the complex, knowledge of priests there and what they do after hours... That might either result in easier infiltration/exfiltration or possible we can ambush/ assassinate the clerics somewhere other than the temple if we know where they live... stuff like that.

Ok, a lot of these stuff you can do without hirelings as well, though I'll come back to the hirelings and to how I would use them. Stealth can help with scoping the place, and you can back this up with spells like invisibility, pass without a trace, polymorph and whatever else along these lines. With spells like alter/disguise self, seeming and others along these lines you could even try to infiltrate, if pretending to be new recruits is too dangerous (eg because of zone of truth). For remotely scouting you could rely on stuff like clairvoyance, arcane eye and scrying. And you could use spells like augury, divination, commune, contact other plane, etc for additional information gathering, which you could use for acquiring any advantage you are able to squeeze out of them. You can use spells like suggestion, geas and dominate person (last two get better with higher level slots) to maybe get something valuable out of someone from the inside of the hostile place. You could use summons for a variety of purposes (a planar bound dybbuk can be pretty handy, a simulacrum of someone could also do some tricks for you can get on its good side, invisible stalkers are good at taking out someone, etc). All in all, I'd say that a wizard with ritual caster (cleric) would give you most of these things. High charisma and proficiency (maybe even expertise or a way to reroll if checks are important at your table) in a few key skills (probably charisma based ones) would be advisable. A feat to grab suble metamagic and use it with spells like suggestion and detect thoughts could also fit the bill.

You can further improve or even entirely replace all of the above with using hirelings.You just need to know how to get in contact with the individual(s) who is right for the job, and then you need to be able to convince them to do it (usually payment would be enough). There are threads around the place that presented ways with which you could aquire huge amounts of gold (which you could use to buy hirelings, rent mercenary companies, whatever). I remember another thread that combined magic jar with another dozen spells or so and the result was having a way to kidnap almost anyone, or something like that. But you dont need to go to such extremes, and I've found that the best way to do this is via the DM. Not to get an edge or something, just so that the DM will have a way to say no sometimes or otherwise provide input.

A champion with 10 in every ability score (well, maybe put an 11 in INT), could do most of these things by relying on hirelings and on DM buy in. Let me detail an idea I've stolen from a friend of mine. He used it once or twice in a whole campaign for something very particular, but I once based a whole character around the general idea. It was an arcane cleric but that does not matter at all. What matters was that I had chosen the noble background and had taken the retainers background feature. The retainers weren't anything special. One was the cook, the second was for carrying stuff and fetching things mostly, and the third one, Meg, his former nanny, had an advisory role while also being the one handling finances and finding the right people for the job at hand. My character was a spoiled rich brat through and through, who was part of a very disfunctional evil family (like comically evil though), who used money to achieve things through hirelings (on top of whatever else the party was doing). At first this was done for things not important to the party (eg "Meg, this guard at the gate was rude to me, hire someone to kill him for me", and after some persuading from Meg he would settle on hiring a few thugs just to beat up the incredibly rude guard who had the nerve to ask who he was instead of bowing and opening the gate). Meg was important, because this npc was the way for me to talk with the DM and agree on what was possible on an in-character level, instead of just stopping play and discussing it out of character.
Cicero: "Meg, I dont like these elves, can we hire an army to kill them?"
Meg: "We dont have the funds sir."
Cicero: "Can we save up?"
Meg: "It would take years..."
Cicero: "Can we at least set their forrest on fire?"
Meg: "Listen, dont worry that the elf lady didn't like you. You'll find plenty of girls to love you."

Meg was also important because she was a check against the character's instincts, which were terrible. Which was what allowed me to use this character in a campaign that did not revolve around murderhoboing. Meg was the character's mom, though he didn't know. He was told that his mom had died in childbirth (dad's first wife died in childbirth, dad had character with the maid, legitimized the child cause it was his first one, later remarried and had 2 more children).

Cicero: "Meg, go find me some mushle. I am going into a dungeon again. Last dungeon was very dangerous, so I'll need some protection".
Rediculous as this may have sounded, it was the turning point. It was when I first used a hireling for something that actually mattered. "Go, represent me in the front lines shorty", Cicero had said to the halfling barbarian npc mercenary, while he stayed at the back throwing firebolts with a pew pew.

And that's when we all realized that the DM was giving the go ahead for using hirelings for actually important stuff (like combat). Because up to that point it was a background thing, a roleplaying thing. Because I didn't actually use character gold to hire people. I didn't even have a number in the coin boxes. Meg was handling the coins and knew what was possible and what not.

So the party started contributing with ideas. The game featured some political intrigue, so we could make use of detectives, thieves, assassins and the like, apart from the occasional hireling for combat. Of course each suggestion would have to pass by me before even reaching Meg (the DM). But that was easy. All the rest of the group had to do was to find a way to present their idea that would entertain me.
Cicero: "Meg, go hire an assassin!"
Meg: "Who is the mark?"
Cicero: "Just bring them here. The guys will explain. I didn't quite get it, but it sounded funny."

The DM started getting to enjoy some of these NPC's, so he would have them reappear if it made sense when we needed someone with their expertise. Sometimes even when it didn't make much sense as well. We ended up hiring the halfling barbarian once when on the other side of the kingdom, because he happened to be visiting a cousin. Aside for the halfling barbarian, the biggest hits were an overly melodramatic and edgy detective who talked in the voice of Batman but who was surprisingly good at finding clues/dirt. A masked assassin who instead of talking she would nod or shake her head, and use sign language (thieves' cant) for anything more complicated. And a charlatan fortune teller who actually took scrying jobs on the side and was quite the scrying expert (first scrying expert we met was a creepy guy named Tom, and we were like "nope"). But there were others too. Other times we used coins to bribe guards or people in positions of power, to hire scouts and guides, to hire transportation, to buy inns and land and one time a bridge. One time we used funds to rebuild and village that had burned to the ground. Meg lied that this would make Cicero's dad proud, but it was for a good cause. One time we hired an airship to drop buckets of sh*t at a noble's mansion (that genius plan was entirely my idea!).

So this is my suggestion. Create your own Meg. You dont go around finding the people who'll do your dirty work, you have others doing that for you. Moreover, it's better to negotiate/discuss with the DM on an in character level than out of character, as it does not disturb the game as much. By making it an actual npc, it also means that the rest of the pc's can interact with them and with your character, which is an option they dont necessarily get if it's just you talking to the DM OoC, or at least without making the game pauses even longer. You can create a list of experts you might end up needing. Like, assassin, combat hireling, kidnapper, thief, infiltrator, mushle who beat people, diviner, teleporter, investigator, etc. Give the list to the DM beforehand so that they can start thinking of personalities and quirks for these npcs. It's important for the DM to have their fun too. Give the list to the rest of the players. Let them contribute with ideas, they'll surely think of something you missed. Let the other players contribute with ideas about when to hire and whom to hire too. In the end it might not even matter to them if their characters are the ones who came up with the idea, but making it a team mini-game will be more interesting for everyone. Obviously you dont have to play a silly character like I did, you could play an evil genius, and to portray a genius well you need all the support and buy in you can get from the DM and from your fellow players.

So the character will be a mix between a diplomancer and a minionmancer! At least thats what I would like to play... and be evil for once! Its just how to go about actually building a diplomancer/minionmancer in 5th which is the problem...

For a diplomancer, you can use spells, you can boost your skills, but once again, DM and plyer buy in. Dont think it's easy or cheaty. You still need to put in the work for it. You've got to do some thinking and some roleplaying. What's there to think? How to use every npc to the outmost. What's to roleplay? How you are going to achieve this. Being good at ability checks and having certain spells can certainly help, but first you have to create the opportunities for them.

My most successful diplomancer, by far, was a paladin. In term of mechanics, I just had a good persuasion check. And an amazing foreign accent. That character was actually a spy of another nation, as well as a religious zealot, and her spy mission was conveniently religiously motivated too. Anyway, you know what was my greatest asset. My roleplaying. Not because it was amazing or anything, but because the other players and the DM had bought the concept and they liked the character and the rp as it messed well with the party dynamics, and they were helping me realize it in various ways.

As an example. First session. The party is gathering up for a quest. The ranger is late, because he is playing a drunkard, so he is probably getting hammered at his favourite tavern. My character goes to fetch him. I am suggesting to the ranger that he met the party through my character, after having hired him as tracker and scout for some missions in the past. Ranger player accepts, and further suggests that there's still a vibe of boss - employee in their relationship. Paladin enters the tavern. It's packed, very noisy and filled with dodgy characters. I tell the DM that this cannot be the first time I've come to pick him up. What if the first time I went there to get him there was some tension, and my character returned with about a douzen of her thug friends from the military religious order she is part of (now a lieutenant, thanks to the noble wizard pc pulling some strings for my character) and beat the crap out of everyone there? DM nods. Roleplaying resumes. "WHERE IS MY FAVOURITE TRACKER?!!", the paladin demands. Everyone stops talking, the music dies. Two patrons carry the wasted ranger in front of me. "Hick, reporting for duty maam". You can be cool entirely on your own, but if everyone else helps you it's much easier.

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NPCs. Suppose that your party goes into a village to investigate a series of gruesome murders. The murders are commited by the local priest's son, who is afflicted with lycanthropy. The priest knows this but he covers for his son, while trying desperately to pray for a cure. The priest is not the only one covering for his son, the captain of the guard does too, cause he is best friends with the priest's son. The captain of the guard is a skilled warrior, probably the toughest foe in that scenario after the werewolf. The village guard numbers 15 or so footmen. The priest employs about a douzen hired blades, in theory as an extra safety measure for the village, but in reality because he knows that the pc's are coming to investigate and he wants to have some extra swords should the pc's prove to be too troublesome. Your party finds out what's what, and they go after the priest and his sell swords. The werewolf at some point conveniently joins the fight to make things difficult. You kill everyone but the priest (commoner), who was pleading for his son's life and now for his and for the rest of his family. Pc's are seriously injured. Captain of the guard joins the scene with some footmen on his side, enough to turn this into a potential TPK should battle recommence. Priest pleads to the captain, hinting that the captain knew what was going on. The captain asks what will happen to the priest, specifically if he is going to be tried. The party are quick enough to figure out that this is the DM giving them a way out, if only the say the right thing. The party tells that they have enough evidence to make the trial unecessary, and they have orders that permit them to lawfully execute the one responsible for these attacks. The party is wounded, and in no position to carry out a clean execution. They ask for the captain to do it. The captain mumbles something under his breath to the priest ("you shouldn't have killed the girl"), and proceeds with decapitating him. The day is saved, and the next day some reinforcements of yours reach the village (unfortunately you didn't have the time to wait for them help you deal with the situation). These reinforcements are under one of the pc's control (not yours), and so is the village at this point.

You know an NPC's secret. The captain's. The priest clearly hinted that he knew of the situation. What do you do? Blackmail him? Over what? He is a captain of a small guard at an insignificant village. He doesn't have anything valuable to give you. And blackmailing him could be dangerous too, as he doesn't seem like a pushover. What do you know of him, and how could you use these bits of knowledge to construct a suggestion that benefits you and sounds reasonable? You know that the guard captain hesitated when presented with the choice to act against the party or against the priest. His werewolf friend being dead when he arrived complicated things. You know that he had a sense of right and wrong, since he was looking for a way to not side with the priest, but at the same time he was scared for his involvement to be found out. You guess that his involvement was solely out of loyalty to his friend. And you know he is skilled with a sword because you've seen him train.

So you ask your wizard friend if he can have the soldiers arrest the captain and bring him to you. They do that as you have just finished writing a report. You place him under a zone of truth spell. First a seemingly irrelevant question, but you dont want to waste your time. You ask him how he feels about the undead. He is taken aback, not expecting the question. They are a menace, he says. Good answer. Then on to bussiness. He confesses he knew what was going on. He admits he knew it was wrong, but he was hoping the priest would find a way to cure his son. He says he clung into false hope, but you know it was loyalty to his friend. You let him come clean so that he gets some weight off his shoulders. You tell him that you helped in killing his friend, and ask him how that makes him feel, and if he is looking for revenge. He says he is sad, even if this might have been for the best. He is not looking to avenge his friend's death. He understands why it was done. You point to that letter in front of you. You tell him it's a report for the bishop, letting him know how the pc's found and routed out heresy. How a fallen priest had succumbed to demon worshiping by setting an abomination on the innocents. You also tell the captain that you mention his involvement in everything that transpired, and you ask him to read it and say if he objects to anything in that letter. The captain is surprised to read that the paladin praises him. She says he was the one who executed the false priest, that he is a man of character, and that it would be criminaly negligent if in these dark times someone with his talents was allowed to stay irrelevant by remaining placed in the middle of nowhere. You suggest he is recruited in your order. The captain is surprised. You affirm that his actions were criminal, but then in a softer voice you say that you understand why he did what he did, and how impossible his position must have been. You sympathise with him. And then you console him by telling him that at least in the end he did the right thing. Your letter is a reward. From you to him. Not because you want something in return (which you do), but because you approve of him and you appreciate him. You tell him that a change of scenery will do him good. You say that you want him to follow you back to the capital, where you'll find for him a black cloak so he can start doing something useful with his life. His is free to stay here in the countryside and count the sheep if prefers it. This is a choice. You wait for his answer. He says yes. This is the beginning of a friendship, and this guy is a useful friend to have.

[JackPhoenix]

All in all, I'd say that a wizard with ritual caster (cleric) would give you most of these things.

I'd like to point out that Ritual Caster (druid) is a better pick for a wizard now. With Trasha's additions of multiple previously cleric-exclusive divinations to wizard's spell list, druidic rituals not available to wizards are Detect Poison and Disease, Purify Food and Drink, Speak with Animals, Animal Messenger, Beast Sense (all of these are very useful for a spy), Locate Animals or Plants, Meld into Stone, Water Walk and Commune with Nature. Cleric, besides the rituals it shares with druid, only give you Ceremony (limited use for a spy), Silence (as a ritual spell, not that useful, as V component means you can't use it to prepare ambush stealthily), Commune and Forbiddance (both of which are of high enough level that you propably don't have to worry about finding a scroll to add them to a ritual book)

[Bobthewizard]

I think you can make this role-playing concept work in a standard adventure even if you don't have mechanical minions to help you. Role-play your actions as manipulating enemies and even PCs. So you'll cast useful debuffs and buffs mechanically, but fluff them as manipulation.

The two classes I would recommend are either eloquence bard or aberrant mind sorcerer

1. Eloquence bard - minimum rolls of 10 on persuasion and deception plus experitise. Unsettling words lets you give penalties to saves which you can use with enchantment spells on enemies. Bardic inspiration can be fluffed as you manipulating the other PCs.

2. Aberrent Mind Sorcerer - the subtle casting of 2/level enchantment divination spells is great for this. Suggestion and detect thoughts can get you almost everything you need.

Possibly add a #3. Could consider Enchantment Wizard but the Int main stat might preclude more mundane persuasion/deception. But you could fluff hypnotic gaze as striking fear into someone.

Other spells that fit the concept - mind sliver, command, dissonant whispers, disguise self, Tasha's hideous laughter, charm person/monster, Tasha's mind whip, hold person/monster, vortex warp, hypnotic pattern, fear, haste, slow, banishment, otilukes resilient sphere, raulothim's psychic lance, bigby's hand, telekinesis, dominate person/monster, magic jar, mass suggestion.