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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Index Card Fixes (Now with Monk fix)

    UPDATE: MONK


    This is the result of me and a friend complaining about Monk fixes (normal), making our own (shocker), and then my friend commenting on the fact that our fix was small enough to fit on an index card (still normal, to be honest, short of full reworks).

    Naturally, we took that as an excuse to do it to every other class.

    So welcome, one and all, to Index Card Fixes! Over the next few weeks (of me editing our fixes into something legible) I will be releasing our simple, index-card-sized fixes for each class. You'll get our fixes, some commentary on why we made them the way we did (probably longer than fixes themselves), and a homebrew recommendation to help further improve the class beyond our small changes.Spoiler: Ranger is gonna say "Read Tasha's" and include a link to a total rework.




    Table of Contents





    Inevitable Questions
    • What was your design philosophy?
      We wanted to make sure that each class felt good at all levels (yes, we even looked at capstones), and that we stayed true to their design principles. To further expound on this idea, here's a quote from further into the thread:
      Neither I nor my friend has looked at a class tier list (me since 3.5e, him ever), nor do we intend to. We're not concerned with if one class's numbers are bigger than the others, or if their features are better. It's not solely about whose features are "good", or if they're competitive at their level. Ultimately, it comes down to how we feel about the class fantasy, and how each feature (or lack thereof) strikes us on a more "feels good" level.

      Ultimately, we took a look at all of the classes, and our experiences playing/DMing them, and said "here are the things we don't like, here are the things we do, and here are the things we think could feel better."
    • Are you doing subclass fixes?
      Nope. These fixes are for the core elements of each class, to make them more robust overall. A number of the homebrew suggestions, however, will be for PHB subclasses that are generally considered underwhelming.
    • Are you fixing Artificer?
      My friend and I are of two minds on this class. I think you could make some very minor alterations that improve the class - he thinks the entire thing needs to be scrapped and started afresh. My argument was undercut by the fact that the replacement class feature I designed probably wouldn't fit on an index card, so no, no Artificer fix.
    • Why didn't you give X class Y feature that everybody else does?
      Short answer, because we don't like that feature. In a little more detail, we compared complaints the community had about classes to our experiences with them, and on the whole found ourselves disagreeing with a lot of them. If we didn't fix the problem everyone complains about, or we did it in a way contrary to the popular answer, it's likely because we just didn't see it as a problem the same way they did.Spoiler: Monk will not have a d10 hit dice.
    • Why are your fixes so boring?
      One, rude. Two, it's about quality of life and class identity; it's also gotta fit on an index card.
    • Why did you give Barbarian a redundant feature the first time you posted it?
      Well as it turns out, coming out of a couple of games where a Barbarian and a character with Heavy Armor Master were involved, my wires got a little crossed on what exactly didn't reduce magical physical damage. So, uh, my goof?





    Barbarian

    First class up to bat, the Barbarian! A class that wants to close in fast, soak up damage, and dish out plenty of its own.

    At 9th level, you gain the feature Hulking Hurler: When you make a ranged attack with a weapon that doesn't have the ammunition property, its close and long ranges are doubled.

    At 15th level, you gain the previously 18th level Indomitable Might feature, in addition to the Persistent Rage feature.

    At 18th level, you gain the feature Steadfast: When you would make an Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma saving throw against a spell or magical effect, you may instead make a Constitution saving throw. You may use this feature a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier, and regain all uses after a long rest.

    At 20th level, replace Primal Champion with the feature Titan's Might: When you make a melee weapon attack, you may choose to replace it with your choice of a 60 foot line or a 30 foot cone. Creatures in the area must make a Strength saving throw, taking the weapon's damage on a failed save, and half as much on a success.
    Spoiler: Changelog
    Show
    15/5/2022: Replaced the redundant feature Iron Skin (resistant to magical physical damage) with Unstoppable Approach (mini-FoM)

    16/5/2022: Replaced Unstoppable Approach with Steadfast (make mental spell saves with Constitution)


    Overall, Barbarian is a solidly designed class. However, it has its shortcomings, and kind of falls off creatively speaking at the highest levels.

    Hulking Hurler (Gratuitous 3.5e Name Steal)
    Looking at Barbarian, it's easy to note the common issue that it lacks the ability to engage with flying enemies. DMs usually account for this with magic items for jumping, ranged attacks, or flight. While that's a reasonable way to do things, we don't think a DM should ever feel obliged to hand the exact same magic items to the exact same classes every game.

    With that in mind, we considered a leaping ability, but agreed that Barbarian can already jump fairly well by merit of regularly being a Strength-primary class - that struck us as more of a subclass specialisation, if anything. Instead, we decided to give the class a better ranged option, mitigating the common range issue of the thrown weapons that Barbarians tend to default to. While this can leave them a little shorter in the damage department, at least they're hitting a little more consistently (or at all) at distance - not to mention how nice it is if you can't reach an enemy on the ground in one turn and want to sustain your rage.

    I suppose, if this still feels insufficient, you could allow Rage to add damage to thrown weapon attacks. However, as Barbarian's class identity is largely about its melee prowess, it makes more sense to feel less optimal at range. Hopefully this feature will make it feel less frustrating. Also consider that this feature was written specifically to allow improvised weapons, so have fun hurling boulders like a giant.

    Persistent Rage/Indomitable Might
    For the level at which you get it, Indomitable Might is kind of underwhelming. By contrast, Persistent Rage is a fantastic feature where it is, but also a tiny bit late in the game. So we decided that the simplest solution was to combine the two, giving you a level that emphasises your physical prowess and willpower. Originally we rolled both into the same feature, called Indomitable Might, but as I was writing this I realised that was a tad wordy for an index card.

    Steadfast
    One of the biggest problems for Barbarians at this level is spellcasters. They often find themselves incapable of making mental saving throws, and in light of that, we present this feature. A healthy body contributes to a healthy mind after all, and Barbarians are a prime example of peak physical prowess. We decided CON mod/long rest uses was a good way to limit this feature, while still leaving you room to improve via your 19th level ASI.

    Titan's Might
    A static ability score increase is boring. Sure, breaking the 20 barrier is neat, but all it really does is increase your numbers. Our capstone design philosophy is that it should feel like you are the apex of your archetype - in this case, an unstoppable force of nature that can drive through hordes of enemies with impunity. Shoutout to Magery, a friend of mine whose 3.5e homebrew class I shamelessly borrowed this idea from.

    Recommended Homebrew
    This Path of the Berserker fix by u/Dirty_Rooster on Reddit. A series of minor changes to the Barbarian equivalent of Champion that make it much more fulfilling to play without dramatically changing the design.

    Additionally, since I mentioned it, have the Path of the Meteor by u/Rain-Junkie on Reddit for a jumping focus.
    Last edited by Eno Remnant; 2022-06-06 at 10:47 PM.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes

    I will admit that Iron Skin (which is an entirely pointless ability, since a Barbarian's rage already gives them resistance to magical B/P/S) doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence vis-a-vis these fixes.

    I mean, this is a fun idea, but generally you should know what you're fixing before you fix the thing you're fixing, yeah?
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    If you see me try to discuss the nitty-gritty of D&D 5e, kindly point me to my signature and remind me that I shouldn't. Please and thank you!

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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    I will admit that Iron Skin (which is an entirely pointless ability, since a Barbarian's rage already gives them resistance to magical B/P/S) doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence vis-a-vis these fixes.

    I mean, this is a fun idea, but generally you should know what you're fixing before you fix the thing you're fixing, yeah?
    That is what you'd call an embarrassing oversight (just realised I'd gotten it mixed up with the Heavy Armor Master feat in my head somehow). These things happen when you're examining the later features and not the earlier ones, I guess.

    Thank you for pointing that out, we will have to discuss a better feature for that level!

    EDIT: After a quick 10 minute PM session with my friend, we've improvised a feature in Iron Skin's place at 18th level that, while not the one we want to end up with, is at least not wholly redundant. Barbarians would certainly appreciate mini-Freedom of Movement.
    Last edited by Eno Remnant; 2022-05-15 at 09:39 AM.
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    Eno said what I was going to say, better, and faster, too.
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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes

    With a little help from my friends, we've come up with a new 18th level feature for our Barbarian fix!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eno Remnant View Post
    At 18th level, you gain the feature Steadfast: When you would make an Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma saving throw against a spell or magical effect, you may instead make a Constitution saving throw. You may use this feature a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier, and regain all uses after a long rest.
    We like it, and we hope everyone else does too. If not, that will not stop us from liking it anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    Eno said what I was going to say, better, and faster, too.
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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes

    Bard

    For our second installment in this series, Bard! The classic jack-of-all-trades, fount of inspiration!Except we're cutting the second one.

    At 1st level, Bardic Inspiration allows you to regain uses at the end of a short or long rest.

    At 2nd level, Song of Rest now allows you and friendly creatures spending Hit Dice to regain an additional number of hit points equal to your Charisma modifier, in addition to its normal effect.

    At 5th level, replace Font of Inspiration with Keep the Good Times Rolling!: Whenever a creature uses one of your Bardic Inspiration dice and rolls the highest result, you regain a use of Bardic Inspiration.

    At 6th level, Countercharm now reads: When you or a friendly creature within 30 feet must make a saving throw against being frightened or charmed, you may use your reaction to expend one use of your Bardic Inspiration. That creature gains a bonus to the saving throw equal to the number it rolls on the dice.

    At 20th level, Superior Inspiration now reads: When you use your Bardic Inspiration feature to grant a Bardic Inspiration dice, you may instead grant any number of your remaining Bardic Inspiration dice to a creature or creatures of your choice, other than yourself. Additionally, when the creature(s) chooses to roll a Bardic Inspiration dice, they may roll all Bardic Inspiration dice granted to them, adding the total to the affected roll. Once you have used this feature, you cannot do so again until you have finished a long rest.
    For a class whose gimmick is about inspiring other people, Bard often doesn't feel very inspiring. Let's take a look at how we've improved that.

    Bardic Inspiration
    It has always struck me as ridiculous that Bard is forced to use its inspiration sparingly for the first four levels. It's such an early game improvement that there's less a sense of achievement for reaching Font of Inspiration, and more of a relief that this seemingly arbitrary restriction has been lifted. With this in mind, I had zero hesitation in striking the latter feature from the class and making the core feature a short rest recharge from the beginning.

    Song of Rest
    An oft complained about feature for being underwhelming; since it heals less than a Hit Dice would, and therefore often doesn't replace the spending of a Hit Dice, which is what you want it to do. Adding the Bard's Charisma modifier to the result lets it feel more like an actual Hit Dice, and can make it easier to sustain a party expecting a lot of combat.

    Keep the Good Times Rolling!
    When I asked my friend what we should replace Font of Inspiration with, I hadn't expected him to suggest replacing it with another use-increasing ability for Bardic Inspiration - there is such a thing as too much feature sustain after all. But given this feature doesn't trigger all that often, and the preference a number of subclasses have towards aggressively expending uses (looking at you, College of Swords), it feels nice to have a chance to pick some uses back up when you run dry in the middle of a fight. Additionally, with our change to the class capstone, it became somewhat more reasonable to fit a feature like this in without exceeding critical mass.

    Countercharm
    The other Bard feature everyone likes to complain about! With our now more consistent pool of Bardic Inspiration, it made sense to give this feature a dice cost, and with it now activating on a reaction, it far better fits the idea of a countercharm.

    Superior Inspiration
    Much like number increases, sustain features make for very unexciting capstones. We bounced ideas for this around for a while before settling on our final idea, again capitalising on all of the extra Bardic Inspiration you've got lying around. Being able to just about guarantee the success of a check once per day, at the cost of a large portion of your core mechanic until your next rest, seemed like a fair get at 20th level. The visual of a peak Bard calling out over the ruckus of battle to renew his allies' determination, to make them push even harder in the thick of things, matches up with the class fantasy so well.

    For those that find it a tad wordy, obviously it could be made more succinct if we dropped the technical wording. Something like: "You can spend a bonus action to give out as many Bardic Inspiration dice as you like, without limitation. Creatures can gain multiple dice, and spend multiple dice at the same time. You can use this feature once per finished long rest."

    Recommended Homebrew
    This alternate College of Valour by u/ToasterDirective on Reddit maintains the theme well, while feeling distinct from the original and still not completely overpowering it.
    Last edited by Eno Remnant; 2022-05-20 at 09:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes

    Cleric

    On a core class level, my friend and I didn't find anything particularly problematic with Cleric. In light of that, we briefly discussed other, less obvious "fixes" we could put in place of mechanical change. We discarded the idea of a roleplaying guide for Cleric, since this isn't a roleplaying series.Something to consider for the future, maybe?

    Shortly thereafter, I proposed a set of hints and tips for handling the mechanic DMs have the most trouble with when it comes to Cleric: Divine Intervention. It's an ability with a lot of lateral gameplay potential, and is often not done its due justice. So, here are some basic tips for implementing your player's request.

    • Consider their Domain(/Deity/Faith) when enacting a Divine Intervention. If a Nature Domain Cleric wants their god's help to cross a wide gorge, perhaps the thick roots of a nearby tree grow and stretch to span the gap. If a War Domain Cleric asks for the same thing, maybe the party becomes infused with the strength of a legendary warrior of the past, making them capable of leaping the expanse with ease. When the Cleric makes their request, the first thing you should do is think about how their chosen faith would spin that request.
    • Don't fall into the trap of just doing damage with a divine bolt of lightning or something when players ask for help defeating an enemy. That's uninspired thinking. Perhaps something appears to bind the enemy, causing them to be restrained. Perhaps a flying enemy is forced to the ground. Perhaps a geyser erupts from the earth where there couldn't possibly have been one, blowing the enemy aside and permanently creating a new fixture in the terrain which might have cultural/religious implications for the future of the region.
      Corollary to this tip, if you are going to do damage, only do enough to make the fight easier, not enough to do all of their work for them. Obvious exception if the enemy is near death anyway, because finishing them off in some grand divine spectacle is always cool.
    • If the player asks for information, don't just hand it to them. This is true of most divination effects, honestly. Sure, a Knowledge Domain Cleric could probably get a bulleted list of all the details they need from their deity or similar - or they could be given glimpses of an answer, a map in their mind to a library or a creature that possesses the knowledge they seek. If you're going to tell them something, make a spectacle out of it, because the divine is dramatic.
    • If the request is so vague that there isn't a clear response to you, make one up. If the Cleric asks for aid in their current situation, stuck at the bottom of a pit while the BBEG gloats over them, give the Cleric a holy weapon to fight him, or a glowing stair to climb out, or a healing aura to help relieve the damage you and the party have taken from this trap. Players don't always know what they want, but assume as the DM that you do, and so the all-knowing gods must too. So just give them any answer that makes sense, so long as it feels good to do it.
    • Consider how dramatic the intervention should be. Not every act of deity needs to have pyrotechnics and Latin chanting. Sometimes all a Nature Domain Cleric needs to see when they try to save a dead forest is a single sapling rising from the earth. Make sure to think about what the player might want, what their character's approach to faith suggests, and what is appropriate for the moment you are in.


    Since I would feel a little guilty making an entire content post on the homebrew forum without actual mechanical input, I will add this as an addendum to Divine Intervention:

    For each consecutive day that you beseech your deity for intervention, the number you must roll is lowered by 1. This resets after you have gone 48 hours without attempting to use this feature.
    Because it can be vaguely annoying to have players attempt Divine Intervention every day, even when they don't need to, just because they might as well try. Especially when they succeed and have to spend half an hour deciding on what, exactly, they want. Especially when it ends up being completely trivial or arbitrary.

    If this feels unfair, given the already low chance of succeeding on a Divine Intervention roll, consider that as the DM, you can decide to broaden their success range for things that feel like their divine source would specifically want them to succeed on - like a Nature Domain Cleric trying to protect a forest from a fire, or a Trickery Domain Cleric trying to mess with someone. Rule Zero exists, take advantage of it.

    Recommended Homebrew
    The Prosperity Domain by Greywander from our very own Playground. Personally I'd have named it Commerce Domain, but by any name it is still a very interesting use of the classic "gold is power" mechanic, and leans nicely into the tithing that Clerics invariably need to afford their components.

    PS: I used Nature Domain as an example a lot in this. No idea why. Other examples do exist.
    Last edited by Eno Remnant; 2022-05-29 at 10:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes

    Druid/Fighter

    A double feature this time, albeit a brief one, for reasons that will quickly become apparent. Upon reviewing the classes, my friend and I didn't see anything we could fix in the space of an index card, or within our own parameters. However, there are some suggestions we might make.

    For Druid, the core class features are solid, but are not the major concern. Ultimately, what limits any kind of change to Druid (and we did consider some) is the existence of the Circle of the Moon. With that in mind, our "fix" here would be to nerf or remove Circle of the Moon entirely, and work from there. It would certainly make future homebrewing easier.

    For Fighter, again, the core class is reasonably solid. However, there's something of a lack of depth to the class - it doesn't feel dynamic, which is a concern for the class that is designed around fighting as its core. My friend believes some kind of active Fighting Style change might improve the class, and martial classes in general in that regard, but that is not the domain of this project presently. Arguments made about turning Battle Master into core Fighter are overdone and can be up to your discretion.

    Recommended Homebrew
    Here is a Druid of the Land remake by u/DeeSharkman on Reddit, that keeps its theme and improves the overall desirability.

    And because everyone's going to do it anyway, here's a decent Fighter overhaul by u/LaserLlama on Reddit with superiority dice as a core feature.
    Last edited by Eno Remnant; 2022-05-29 at 10:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes

    Monk

    At last, we come to the most fixed class in all of fifth edition, with the possible exception of Ranger. There's not much to say as a prelude that hasn't been said a thousand times before, so let's get right into it!

    At 1st level, your Martial Arts die now increases in four-level increments (d4 at 1st, d6 at 5th, d8 at 9th, d10 at 13th, d12 at 17th).

    At 2nd level, your Ki ability Flurry of Blows now causes creatures you attack to have disadvantage on opportunity attacks against you until the end of your turn.

    Additionally at 2nd level, your number of Ki points increases by an amount equal to your proficiency bonus.

    At 5th and 9th levels, your Stunning Strike feature and Unarmored Movement improvement change places.

    At 10th level, your Purity of Body feature now allows you to spend 10 minutes tending to a poisoned or diseased ally, giving them a new saving throw against the condition, once per long rest.

    At 13th level, the Tongue of the Sun and Moon feature now allows you to cast Calm Emotions as an action by spending 2 ki points.
    Monk has a number of issues to address, and while I don't think we got them all in this fix, we've certainly done what we could.

    Martial Arts
    A common complaint is that Monks don't do enough damage. I categorically disagree, but it did feel weird to not end progression on a d12 - so I get to appease my need for symmetry and everyone else's complaints. Two birds, one stone.

    Ki
    Okay, so this is one where we agree with people, not enough ki. So you get more ki.

    Flurry of Blows
    This one is a little involved. First, Monk strikes us as a distinctly skirmishing class, but doesn't provide quite enough tools to make that effective. Second, my friend and I believe that D&D has a fundamental issue in its combat design - its lack of mobility incentive. There's not much reason to move except to engage with or retreat from an enemy, or during a chase sequence. So, we changed the way flanking works: if you move at least 10 feet while within the range an enemy threatens, the next melee weapon attack against that enemy by an ally has advantage. With that rule change in mind, Monk has a high incentive to move from enemy to enemy, using their extra movement and ability to avoid getting hit to generate multiple advantages. Even without this change, the ability to keep moving helps Monk really feel like a skirmisher.

    Stunning Strike/Unarmoured Movement
    Stunning Strike is one of the most annoying abilities in D&D - for the DMs. Part of this is about how early it comes in, so we found the simplest answer to be switching these two features. You still gain an exciting feature at 5th level (and honestly it's more relevant at this level than it was, since flight items and Fly itself tend to come into play before 9th), and DMs can utilise more enemies that can better handle Stunning Strike, if they choose, at that range of challenge.

    Purity of Body
    Decent feature, but passive and bland. A minor active effect makes it a bit more interesting, and fits the fluff of Monk's ki manipulation well.

    Tongue of the Sun and Moon
    Same thing as Purity of Body, really. It's not crazy for the level it's at, and tends to apply only in niche cases, so a more active function that fits the theme makes it feel better to achieve this level.

    Recommended Homebrew
    Keeping in mind complaints people have about Monk's weakness at ranged (which isn't a problem, get a shortbow), here is the Way of the Bow by Grod_The_Giant on the Playground.
    Last edited by Eno Remnant; 2022-06-05 at 12:36 AM.
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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes (Now with Monk fix)

    Barbarian:
    The barbarians fundamental problem is that from level 6 to 19, the things they get of note are
    a) subclass abilities
    b) extra daily rages

    Everything else is very marginal. Rage damage bonus is marginal, critical damage boost is marginal, rage being harder to get rid of is marginal. Even when added up each marginal boost is pretty damn small accumulated.

    Your barbarian "fix" doesn't address this at all.

    After Barb 5, either of these make a better barbarian than X levels of Barbarian (barring subclass features):
    Fighter 2 or 3
    Gloomstalker 3
    Then grab L 4 if you need ASIs.

    Rogue is almost worth it for expertise and L 5 half damage reaction. Almost. But if you want to be throwing things, Rogue 5 helps more than your throwing feature! :)

    What is worse, the reason you'd stop fighter at 2-4 is because the extra attack at 5 is wasted. Fighter 11/Barbarian 5/Gloom 4 makes a better barbarian than most barbarians (8 attack rage fueled alpha strike isn't bad).
    Last edited by Yakk; 2022-06-05 at 11:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes (Now with Monk fix)

    Bard:

    L 1-4 the designed time to gain levels and between rests short.

    Making it X/day isn't actually a huge deal, but it does make Bard 1 less of a crazy dip for any cha class.

    Good times is a crappy one. Your die gets bigger, your chance gets lower. Meh.

    Your countercharm comment is nonsense. Your uses of bardic inspiration are not changed at level 6. Or are you talking about the max roll?

    That is not going to happen very often; like less than 1 extra per refresh cycle, decreasing as you gain levels. And not reliably. So it is a cute game, but has very little balance impact.
    Last edited by Yakk; 2022-06-05 at 12:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes

    Quote Originally Posted by Eno Remnant View Post
    Monk
    I actually really like the "swap Stunning Strike and Unarmored Movement Improvement" suggestion — that way, Stunning Strike comes online when you have enough ki to use it relatively freely while running up walls comes online early enough to be a character-defining feature.

    Otherwise, though... I feel like most of the tweaks are a little clunkier than they initially appear (for example, having the Martial Arts die bumps happen at 9th and 13th instead of 11th makes those two levels stronger and makes 11th level kinda sad). I'm also not sure that spending precious, precious index card space on fixing ribbons is a good use of that space. :p
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
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    If you see me try to discuss the nitty-gritty of D&D 5e, kindly point me to my signature and remind me that I shouldn't. Please and thank you!

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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes (Now with Monk fix)

    [quote]At 1st level, your Martial Arts die now increases in four-level increments (d4 at 1st, d6 at 5th, d8 at 9th, d10 at 13th, d12 at 17th).[quote]
    /shrug.

    At 2nd level, your Ki ability Flurry of Blows now causes creatures you attack to have disadvantage on opportunity attacks against you until the end of your turn.
    So it is a weaker disengage.
    Additionally at 2nd level, your number of Ki points increases by an amount equal to your proficiency bonus.
    Monks need more Ki ... until they don't need more Ki. This boosts monks when they need more ki, and leaves them less improved in T3/4 when they start lagging, like many weapon using classes do.
    At 5th and 9th levels, your Stunning Strike feature and Unarmored Movement improvement change places.
    Stunning strike remains the most efficient use of Ki in the game.

    Low level monks got worse, because stunning strike is strong. High level monks didn't change much.

    I do agree that the movement is fun.
    At 10th level, your Purity of Body feature now allows you to spend 10 minutes tending to a poisoned or diseased ally, giving them a new saving throw against the condition, once per long rest.
    "Once per day you can ritual cast cure disease/poison, except worse". That isn't a end-of-T2 feature, it is a ribbon. It would still be a ribbon if it was an auto-cure or unlimited uses; so it is a not very good ribbon.
    At 13th level, the Tongue of the Sun and Moon feature now allows you to cast Calm Emotions as an action by spending 2 ki points.
    Granting the ability to cast one specific niche T1 spell in T3 isn't a meaningful feature. It is a ribbon.
    Last edited by Yakk; 2022-06-06 at 09:46 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes (Now with Monk fix)

    Thank you both for your feedback! I'm happy to get into your points, but first a preface that I probably should have put in the first post, and will.

    Neither I nor my friend has looked at a class tier list (me since 3.5e, him ever), nor do we intend to. We're not concerned with if one class's numbers are bigger than the others, or if their features are better. It's not solely about whose features are "good", or if they're competitive at their level. Ultimately, it comes down to how we feel about the class fantasy, and how each feature (or lack thereof) strikes us on a more "feels good" level.

    Ultimately, we took a look at all of the classes, and our experiences playing/DMing them, and said "here are the things we don't like, here are the things we do, and here are the things we think could feel better." So with this in mind, let's address your concerns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Everything else is very marginal. Rage damage bonus is marginal, critical damage boost is marginal, rage being harder to get rid of is marginal. Even when added up each marginal boost is pretty damn small accumulated.
    I tend to disagree. Any kind of damage bonus is significant in 5e, Barbarian, of any class, is among the more likely to score a critical hit (Reckless Attack), and being able to sustain rage can be very important in scenarios where constant engagement is difficult to maintain. Nothing about Barbarian feels like it underperforms, at least in the earlier levels, so far as we've noticed (I've played two Barbarians at low- and mid-levels, and my friend has played two in the same kind of ranges). YMMV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    After Barb 5, either of these make a better barbarian than X levels of Barbarian (barring subclass features):
    Fighter 2 or 3
    Gloomstalker 3
    Then grab L 4 if you need ASIs.

    Rogue is almost worth it for expertise and L 5 half damage reaction. Almost. But if you want to be throwing things, Rogue 5 helps more than your throwing feature! :)

    What is worse, the reason you'd stop fighter at 2-4 is because the extra attack at 5 is wasted. Fighter 11/Barbarian 5/Gloom 4 makes a better barbarian than most barbarians (8 attack rage fueled alpha strike isn't bad).
    We didn't specifically consider multiclassing. As I mentioned above, it was about making the class feel better, not the optimisation of the class. If multiclassing makes for a more satisfying build for you, you're welcome to continue in that direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Bard:

    L 1-4 the designed time to gain levels and between rests short.

    Making it X/day isn't actually a huge deal, but it does make Bard 1 less of a crazy dip for any cha class.
    Multiclassing is not our concern with this project, and I can hardly say that most people are too concerned with picking up Bardic Inspiration when they multiclass into Bard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Good times is a crappy one. Your die gets bigger, your chance gets lower. Meh.
    This is a pattern we noticed when we designed the feature, but there's no simple way to improve that while following fifth edition's design principles (keeping it simple). As it stands, this feature is more about incentivising more consistent use of Bardic Inspiration at lower levels, and being a delightful bonus at later levels. It was not a feature we designed to be optimal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Your countercharm comment is nonsense. Your uses of bardic inspiration are not changed at level 6. Or are you talking about the max roll?

    That is not going to happen very often; like less than 1 extra per refresh cycle, decreasing as you gain levels. And not reliably. So it is a cute game, but has very little balance impact.
    Between your ability to more constantly output Bardic Inspiration (as part of making it recharge on a short rest), and the additional refresh mechanic at 5th level, you do on average get more Bardic Inspiration per day at that level, and the feature continues to be useful at levels beyond this one.

    As to the latter point, I direct your attention to my previous comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    I actually really like the "swap Stunning Strike and Unarmored Movement Improvement" suggestion — that way, Stunning Strike comes online when you have enough ki to use it relatively freely while running up walls comes online early enough to be a character-defining feature.
    Thank you! This is one of the changes that struck us as fairly simple but satisfying to implement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Otherwise, though... I feel like most of the tweaks are a little clunkier than they initially appear (for example, having the Martial Arts die bumps happen at 9th and 13th instead of 11th makes those two levels stronger and makes 11th level kinda sad). I'm also not sure that spending precious, precious index card space on fixing ribbons is a good use of that space. :p
    Well in regards to the Martial Arts dice, given 11th level is a subclass level which tends to give a useful mechanical benefit, I'm not sure I quite agree. However, I'd be happy to discuss any further clunkiness you've noted.

    As for index card space, well, if we haven't used it for anything else, why not this? It's not so much about fixing the ribbons, as it is making them feel better to acquire. Immunity to disease and poison is neat and all, but being able to go around helping a city suffering from a plague is just fun roleplaying, as an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    So it is a weaker disengage.
    Precisely. Given it's attached to an already good feature, that seemed reasonable. As to why we did this when you have Step of the Wind, well, as explained in the class discussion, it helps Monk better fit its role. Admittedly, it's less impactful when taken apart from our variant flanking rule, but it contributes enough that I think it warrants mentioning. Of course, YMMV, so it's up to you whether to use it or not, as with the rest of these features.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Monks need more Ki ... until they don't need more Ki. This boosts monks when they need more ki, and leaves them less improved in T3/4 when they start lagging, like many weapon using classes do.
    We cannot fix martial classes on an index card. It is another project entirely that we are considering at some point. That being said, I don't know that they actually need fixing in that regard. I've certainly not had or seen any issues in play regarding later level martials and their mechanical output. This is again a YMMV opinion, and probably requires its own thread to fully get into and attempt to correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Stunning strike remains the most efficient use of Ki in the game.

    Low level monks got worse, because stunning strike is strong. High level monks didn't change much.

    I do agree that the movement is fun.
    Well, there's at least one point we can agree on

    Certainly, I can see your point in regards to Stunning Strike. However, from my own own experiences with the class (three of my own, four of my players'), I can say that the feature tends to be somewhat oppressive at those lower levels, and doesn't actually dramatically affect the outcome of combat. I and my players both often forget to use the feature, and can still succeed in combat without excessive cost.

    That being said, I have often enjoyed changes people have suggested like applying the effect of the Slow spell in place of a stun, and things to that effect. Certainly, if you could suggest a less oppressive alternative in its place, we could consider it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    "Once per day you can ritual cast cure disease/poison, except worse". That isn't a end-of-T2 feature, it is a ribbon. It would still be a ribbon if it was an auto-cure or unlimited uses; so it is a not very good ribbon.
    As noted above, this change was made more for the enjoyability of the feature than for its effectiveness. Unlimited uses of a healing ability would be excessive, though perhaps allowing more uses per day would be a good idea to better fulfill the fantasy this feature is intended to offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Granting the ability to cast one specific niche T1 spell in T3 isn't a meaningful feature. It is a ribbon.
    You are absolutely right, it is a fluff piece more than anything else. This has to do with our philosophy on class ability over class power. It's a fine feature by itself, it just feels cooler if you can do this too.



    It is worth keeping in mind that all of the changes we have suggested thus far are simply the result of our experiences and opinions, and what we think would be fun to see included in each class. As with all homebrew, its inclusion in your game is purely at the discretion of you and the relevant parties. If you disagree with our arguments, or find that they lack in some fashion to your eye, you are welcome to take the ideas we've set forth and adjust them to be more to your liking. We're just two guys throwing suggestions into the air, in case anyone else would like to see them.

    Thank you again for your contribution, we do appreciate an engaged audience
    Last edited by Eno Remnant; 2022-06-06 at 10:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    Eno said what I was going to say, better, and faster, too.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Index Card Fixes (Now with Monk fix)

    Stunning Strike:
    Starting at level 5, when you roll a 20 with a monk weapon or an unarmed strike, you can do a stunning strike. When you do a stunning strike, the creature you hit must make a constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn.

    Alternatively, if you hit with 19 or higher on your attack roll with a monk weapon or an unarmed strike, you may spend 1 Ki to deal an extra monk weapon damage die and impose a stunning strike with disadvantage on the save. (This does not require 2 saves even if you rolled a 20).

    ...

    This is less predictable than stunning strike, can't be spammed, but gives better return on Ki than even a normal stunning strike.

    (I threw on the damage die because it means the extra Ki isn't wasted, even if the foe passes the save. Also, it stacks in a fun way with 19-20 crit range.)

    This is intended to remove the existing Stunning Strike spam option. Because I agree, "holding Ki to stunning strike" makes for less fun gameplay.

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