4th Ed: Races, Classes, UPDATED!

[Person_Man]

UPDATED 11/28/07

There's a pretty solid rumor that the final 4th ed race will be Dragonborn.

There's also the possibility of other classes beyond the Fighter, Paladin, Rogue, Ranger, Cleric, Warlord, Wizard, and Warlock. Specifically, "druids, barbarians, swordmages." I'm guessing the swordmage is a Duskblade. UPDATE: Swordmages are arcane defenders. See my post below for details if you're interested.

According to a Peter Schaefer, "Each race works best with two or three classes, thanks to a stat bonus or other feature, and none suck at any class."

In addition, we have a lot more information from EN World via this thread on the WotC forum.

So our current line-up, based on mostly rumor and my best guesses, are:

Race: Homeland: Favored Class: Class Role: Class Power Source

Human: Plains: Anything
Dwarf: Mountains: Fighter: Defender: Martial
Eladrin: Feywild: Wizard: Controller: Arcane
Elf: Forests: Ranger: Striker: Martial/Divine
Dragonborn: Dessert: Warlord: Leader: Martial
Halfling: Rivers: Rogue: Striker: Martial
Tiefling: Shadowfell: Warlock: Striker: Arcane
?: ?: Cleric: Leader: Divine
?: ?: Paladin: Defender: Divine
?: ?: Swordmage: Defender: Arcane
?: ?: Barbarian: Striker: Martial
?: ?: Druid: Controller?: Divine
?: ?: Bard!: Controller/Leader?: Divine WTF?
?: ?: Monk!: Striker: Martial
?: ?: Sorcerer!: Striker: Arcane

Other non-core races that were mentioned are gnome, drow, celestial (aasimar) and warforged. They'll most likely be published as playable races in early supplements.

As I've posted before, its seems as if WotC has quickly abandoned any niche protection. 4th Ed seems to be transforming into a "best of 3.5, but newer" without any systematic effort to balance the classes.

Discuss.

[Azerian Kelimon]

We can probably take humans out of the "Good at two or three classes" picture. Humans have always been good at everything, so I'd be VEEEEERY suprised if that changed. 'Sides, which classes would they be good for? Fighters? Nah, nothing remarkable there. Casters? Unremarkable. Leaders? Could be. Skillmonkeys? Could be. But none would be really set for a human.

[puppyavenger]

I'd say elf for warlock bvecause they're being set up for a nature vibe and warlocks can apparently make pacts with "feral" creatures.

[Morty]

I really hope those "dragonborn" are either false or on secondary race.

[Inyssius Tor]

... we know they aren't "false." You've read Races of the Dragon, right?

EDIT: As for being a "secondary race": if they're in the PHB, how would that work?

[Crow]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was core. Everything they're spewing out seems to be whatever happens to be in vogue on the gleemax forums.

When they release 4e we'll all be here talking about our Half-Dragon (or is that Dragonborn?) Warforged Warblades (oops, I mean Fighters), and how many maneuvers they can pull off in one round.

If the Swordmage is true, I am very disappointed. I always thought the Duskblade was a poor gish. True gish afficianados would scoff at just 6th level spells. Also, the loss of the sorcerer is a bummer to me. Hopefully the warlock got his stuff, without the lame fiendish pact thing.

[Morty]

... we know they aren't "false." You've read Races of the Dragon, right?

No, I haven't read Races of the Dragon. As for they being "false", I meant that I hope the rumors about them being core race are false, not that I hope the race doesn't exist. It's just that if they aren't core, I'll have an easier time ignoring them.

EDIT: As for being a "secondary race": if they're in the PHB, how would that work?

Well, I hope they won't be in PHB.

[Jayngfet]

not to sound stupid, but when does 4th ED happen?

[Anon. and on]

My only reaction to this race is

Spoiler

Show

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! FURRY!

But seriously, it looks convincing, alas. I mean, I'm fine with the new planetouched, but couldn't we have had a Zenthyr/Tulahadara/Chaond instead of something that's so limiting? It would mean more opportunities to explore alignment,

[J.Gellert]

I'm generally against any new race (I happen to like the current line-up) but if a new one must be core, then at least let it be some kind of Lizard-man, Rat-man, or Cat/Lion-man, which I have at least grown accustomed to from other RPGs in recent years.

Humans are probably going to be good all-around, or at least moderate all-around.

I am also thinking Druids (or something similar) are a sure bet. Unless the new race is a kind of changeling or fey that can Wildshape.

[Indon]

Looks good.

I'd like it if they made the Humans the jack-of-all-classes-master-of-none that they were probably intended to be in 3'rd edition, before everyone realized how potent an extra feat and skill point per level was (making them a jack-of-all-classes-and-still-master-of-a-bunch-of-them).

And the more classes, and the more diverse they are, the better, in my opinion.

[Artanis]

There's also the possibility of other classes beyond the Fighter, Paladin, Rogue, Ranger, Cleric, Warlord, Wizard, and Warlock. Specifically, "druids, barbarians, swordmages." I'm guessing the swordmage is a Duskblade.

Can you tell us where that quote comes from? Not that I'm doubting you or anything, I just want to know how solid of a "possibility" it is. I'd also like to know how solidly you're convinced that Swordmage = Duskblade...because just the quote you posted here indicates to me that it might be a Sorcerer or (more likely) Warmage.

[Lord Zentei]

not to sound stupid, but when does 4th ED happen?

The Player's Handbook is set to be available in May 2008, IIRC.

[Starbuck_II]

Swordmage was talked about a few months back.

It is a new class: while similar to Duskblade; it was not the same (or at least not hinted).
I think it will be a Swordsage with arcane adaptation variant in ToB. But, we won't know till it is done.

[Person_Man]

Can you tell us where that quote comes from? Not that I'm doubting you or anything, I just want to know how solid of a "possibility" it is. I'd also like to know how solidly you're convinced that Swordmage = Duskblade...because just the quote you posted here indicates to me that it might be a Sorcerer or (more likely) Warmage.

If you follow my link through the WotC forum, you'll find that it was posted on EN World, which does a much better job of organizing 4th ed information then the official WotC site.

Virtually every book written by Americans is printed overseas, because the cost of producing paper and running a factory is much cheaper in countries without environmental or labor laws. Once printed, they are then shipped directly to the book sellers across the world. It often gets to foreign countries (or on the shelves of local stores in the producing country) before it gets to the US because of proximity. And international booksellers often ignore official release dates, because they don't have a close relationship with American publishers, unlike Barnes and Noble et al. In this case, the Races & Classes preview was found by some gamer in Hungry, who glanced through the book and then posted about it on the boards.

[Telonius]

My only reaction to this race is

Spoiler

Show

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! FURRY!

But seriously, it looks convincing, alas. I mean, I'm fine with the new planetouched, but couldn't we have had a Zenthyr/Tulahadara/Chaond instead of something that's so limiting? It would mean more opportunities to explore alignment,

I think that would be more like ...

Spoiler

Show

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! SCALEY!

[....]

I already miss gnomes.

[Dausuul]

The Player's Handbook is set to be available in May 2008, IIRC.

No, they changed their plans. Now all three core books are set for release in June '08.

[RandomLogic]

So is Dragonborn taking the place of Half-Orc?

Also I would expect that Humans would still be the 'jack of all trades master of none' race for all the classes.

[Artanis]

If you follow my link through the WotC forum, you'll find that it was posted on EN World, which does a much better job of organizing 4th ed information then the official WotC site.

Virtually every book written by Americans is printed overseas, because the cost of producing paper and running a factory is much cheaper in countries without environmental or labor laws. Once printed, they are then shipped directly to the book sellers across the world. It often gets to foreign countries (or on the shelves of local stores in the producing country) before it gets to the US because of proximity. And international booksellers often ignore official release dates, because they don't have a close relationship with American publishers, unlike Barnes and Noble et al. In this case, the Races & Classes preview was found by some gamer in Hungry, who glanced through the book and then posted about it on the boards.

Oh. Right.


Sorry, brain is still fried from class

[Lord Zentei]

No, they changed their plans. Now all three core books are set for release in June '08.

Ah. Well, it's only one more month to wait.


And as an aside, I concur with .... on gnomes.

[Merlin the Tuna]

The Swordmage has been mentioned before; it's supposedly an Arcane Defender, and there weren't any plans (at the time) to try to cram it into the first PHB. That implies that it's not that similar to the Duskblade, as the Duskblade is about as Striker as you get.

[YPU]

I already miss gnomes.

Indeed, how in the world can they drop the gnome’s? HOW? Its not like we all know that the first homebrew thing we will see for 4E is the gnome, it will be annoying that there will be no standard place for gnomes in campaign settings now.

Anyhow, the rumor seems to be plausible but not rock solid. Dragonborn probably has the first place on my list of possible mystery races.

[Draz74]

Indeed, how in the world can they drop the gnome’s? HOW? Its not like we all know that the first homebrew thing we will see for 4E is the gnome, it will be annoying that there will be no standard place for gnomes in campaign settings now.

Thing is, gnomes didn't really have a standard place in campaign settings anyway. That's why they're getting dropped. Their self-identity confusion (we're prankster illusionists! ... no, we're little peaceful burrowing folk who hang out with bunnies and sing songs! ... no, we're tinkerers who are geniuses at building all kinds of mechanical contraptions!) was at least as bad as the elves' (everything about us says we should have favored class Ranger, but somehow we're still all obsessed with being Wizards). But at least the elves were an integral part of most worlds' histories; gnomes rarely had any major kingdoms or even territories, or any major influence on the world. Their ecology didn't make sense ... they were rarely non-combatant NPCs ...

[Vectner]

Thing is, gnomes didn't really have a standard place in campaign settings anyway. That's why they're getting dropped. Their self-identity confusion (we're prankster illusionists! ... no, we're little peaceful burrowing folk who hang out with bunnies and sing songs! ... no, we're tinkerers who are geniuses at building all kinds of mechanical contraptions!) was at least as bad as the elves' (everything about us says we should have favored class Ranger, but somehow we're still all obsessed with being Wizards). But at least the elves were an integral part of most worlds' histories; gnomes rarely had any major kingdoms or even territories, or any major influence on the world. Their ecology didn't make sense ... they were rarely non-combatant NPCs ...

So how can you justify dragonborn and tieflings then? I highly doubt there will be dragonboarn kingdoms or a unified identiy to the tiefling race.

[Person_Man]

The Swordmage has been mentioned before; it's supposedly an Arcane Defender, and there weren't any plans (at the time) to try to cram it into the first PHB. That implies that it's not that similar to the Duskblade, as the Duskblade is about as Striker as you get.

Whoops. Right you are.

Money quote:

Spoiler

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Good morning, everybody! Today, I can talk a little bit about the swordmage.

First, let me say a few words about the origin of the class. Some of you have already observed that the "grid" created by lining up power sources on one axis and character role on another axis is a natural first place to look for class ideas. We don't intend to meticulously fill in each possible combination, or even limit ourselves to one class per cubbyhole, but it's an interesting place to start. The swordmage appeared about 15 months ago when we asked ourselves, "Say, what would an arcane defender look like?"

We liked the idea well enough that at one point the swordmage was well on his way to being included in the Player's Handbook. But for various reasons we decided to go with a slightly different mix of character classes, and so the swordmage is going to wait for a while. It's a class we are going to design and publish someday, but it probably won't be in 2008... with one key exception: I'm featuring a swordmage named Geran Hulmaster as the protagonist in my upcoming Forgotten Realms trilogy, beginning with the aptly-titled novel "Swordmage." It'll be out in May.

Naturally, I needed to know a lot about how the class ticks in order to write about one. Since I don't have a mechanical design to base my Geran's abilities on, I've thought long and hard about what the swordmage class should do, how it looks, and how it feels. So here are a few things I know about the swordmage, based on what I've done for my novel:

* Swordmages aren't "gishes" or bladesingers. Someone over on EN World made an uncannily accurate prediction about the class, which I can confirm here: A swordmage is a warrior who uses magic to fight better.

* Swordmages use spells of armorning and protection instead of wearing heavy armor. At the most basic level, it's something along the lines of an always-on mage armor spell, renewed each morning. Since they're defenders, they need hit points and AC comparable to fighters, and swordmages get there by using persistent magic effects.I think there are other persistent wards in play too, spells that provide some energy resistance, mental defense, things of that sort.

* Swordmages have lots of room for fun, combat-focused "immediate" spells and "move" spells. For example, my character Geran makes use of a few short-range teleports and transpositions, as well as instant shield-like effects. The movement effects will work great for a defender--what better way to get the troll to stop beating on the wizard than to simply trade places with your unarmored friend?

* Swordmages have room for fun attack powers, too. For example, I have Geran make use of a short-duration, self-only strength spell, as well as another one that wreathes his sword in magical flames. There are a few others I touched on in my novel, but I don't want to give any more away 'cause I don't want to spoil things.

Anyway, there you go! Someday you'll be able to play a character like that if you've got the inclination to.

Rich said that it won't be in the core rules, but apparently its in the core rules preview. Maybe they liked it so much during playtesting it was included? Or they're previewing supplements? We'll have to wait and see.

[Morty]

So how can you justify dragonborn and tieflings then? I highly doubt there will be dragonboarn kingdoms or a unified identiy to the tiefling race.

Well, tieflings are descendants of humans and otherworldly beings. They aren't the same kind of race as elves or humans. They aren't supposed to have political and cultural structures.

[Crow]

* Swordmages aren't "gishes" or bladesingers. Someone over on EN World made an uncannily accurate prediction about the class, which I can confirm here: A swordmage is a warrior who uses magic to fight better.

* Swordmages use spells of armorning and protection instead of wearing heavy armor. At the most basic level, it's something along the lines of an always-on mage armor spell, renewed each morning. Since they're defenders, they need hit points and AC comparable to fighters, and swordmages get there by using persistent magic effects.I think there are other persistent wards in play too, spells that provide some energy resistance, mental defense, things of that sort.

* Swordmages have lots of room for fun, combat-focused "immediate" spells and "move" spells. For example, my character Geran makes use of a few short-range teleports and transpositions, as well as instant shield-like effects. The movement effects will work great for a defender--what better way to get the troll to stop beating on the wizard than to simply trade places with your unarmored friend?

* Swordmages have room for fun attack powers, too. For example, I have Geran make use of a short-duration, self-only strength spell, as well as another one that wreathes his sword in magical flames. There are a few others I touched on in my novel, but I don't want to give any more away 'cause I don't want to spoil things.

Would somebody please enlighten me as to how in the F-ing hell that is not a gish?

[Azerian Kelimon]

And the dragonborn I know are members of another race who transformed into a sort of halfdragon following Bahamut. Though it could be used with just about any dragon god.

[Ryuuk]

Would somebody please enlighten me as to how in the F-ing hell that is not a gish?

From the sound of it, just change the M to an S in Swordmage to get a good idea of what they'll be like.