The LA Assignment Thread XII: the LA-bors of Heracles

[Bavarian itP]

I wonder if there will be a monster I feel qualified to rate soon

[Thurbane]

There's a lot going on with this weird cat.

I'll give it a tentative LA +0. It gets a lot of good stuff for a beatstick, but 14HD is a lot to deal with.

[Beni-Kujaku]

I wonder if there will be a monster I feel qualified to rate soon

Don't worry‚ the next one is just a big boar who can burrow through sand and secretes poison on its... Four mouth at the end of four trunks? Okay‚ so not a boar at all. Still‚ a pretty straightforward monster.

[Debatra]

Seems like a good +0. Next up is the Fiery Sandhog.

Happy New Year.

[Debatra]

Fiery Sandhog

Size & Type: Medium Aberration
Space/Reach: 5'/5'
HD: 4, 9 (Large)
Speed: 40', Climb 20', Burrow 20' (Sand and Loose Soil only)
Ability Scores: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +2, Int -4, Wis +0, Cha +0 - Net +4, one penalty
Natural Armor: 6
Natural Weapons: Four Primary Bites (1d4 plus poison), two Secondary Claws (1d6)
Skill List: Climb, Hide, Jump, Spot
Body Shape: Multi-elephant-trunk/mouthed boar
Speech (Languages): "No" (generally understands Common, can communicate with each other "with a complex series of grunts and squeals")
CR: 4
WotC LA: -
Our LA: +0

First thing's first, the joke image does not do this thing justice.

The fiery sandhog looks only superficially like a large, bald razorback hog. A spiny row of crystalline spikes runs down its back and bristles on its shoulders. Its powerful legs end in large, clawed flippers that can propel it through sand and loose earth with surprising speed. Its vaguely boarlike head splits at the snout into four long trunks, each of which ends in a fanged maw. A pair of beady, feral red eyes glares from its face, belying its underlying intelligence and cunning.

...Maybe I'll start including the descriptive text regularly instead of just when I find it particularly interesting.

Fiery Sandhogs are immune to fire. Its crystalline spikes can be used to collect and focus heat from the sun into a 70' Heat Ray, dealing 2d6 fire damage on a ranged touch attack. Despite mentioning the sun, there is no mentioned daily limit or need for actual access to sunlight.

The poison of its four fanged trunks is of course Con-based, dealing 1d4 Str damage for both initial and secondary effects.

Finally, it can exert limited control of sand, loose dirt, or gravel within 140', in a 20' radius. It can make such material flow like water to a depth of up to three feet for a brief moment. Any Large or smaller creature caught in the flow has to make a (presumably Con-based) reflex save to avoid being trapped, unable to move and taking a -2 circumstance penalty to Dexterity until they get out. Doing that requires either a Strength or Escape Artist check as a full-round action, the DC being 21, with no mention of any scaling.

---

Ladies and gentlemen, the internet has destroyed the word "loose" for me. I look at it, and despite the fact that I wrote that and I know full-well it's correct; I just reflexively think that somebody misspelled "lose" when I see that word now.

[Tzardok]

Bizzare stuff. I'm not sure, does anybody think this is worth more than +0?

[Thurbane]

Yeah, another weird one, not especially suited for use as a PC IMHO.

• 4 RHD (d8 hp, medium BAB, good Will save 2 skill points/"level").
• 40 ft speed, 20 ft burrow, 20 ft climb: decent movement options.
• +6 natural AC.
• 4 bites 1d5 (plus poison 1d6 Str), 2 claws 1d6.
• Heat Ray: at will 2d6 fire supernatural ray attack, 70 feet. Better than no ranged options, but unless you are adding precision damage or similar, nothing to write home about.
• Control Sand: an area effect tripping/entangling type effect, very terrain dependent.
• Darkvision 60 ft.
• Fire Immunity: with no vulnerability to cold. Nice.
• Str +4, Dex +2, Con +2, Int -2: net +4. Personally, I hate taking a hit to Int. I like skills.
• Small list of racial skills, movement and stealth based.

Slightly weird quadrupedal body. May not be able to speak normally. No hands. None of those things bode well for ease of use as a PC.

I think this is borderline -0 for me, but I guess the number of attacks and poison could get it to +0. No more than that. Can't ever see myself wanting to play one of these. You can get to large with 5 more HD, but who would want 5 Aberration HD when they could have 5 class levels?

I'm voting LA +0.

[loky1109]

I see here some option for good use even with 4 bad HDs.
I give it +0 LA.

Bizzare stuff. I'm not sure, does anybody think this is worth more than +0?

I did, but finally decide it's too much.

[Beni-Kujaku]

The ability scores are bad, as is the body shape, but the movement options are good, and 4 attacks with 1d4 Str poison is absolutely nothing to sneeze at. I could see a Thayan Gladiator. I vote LA+0

[danielxcutter]

Oh, and Aberration HD mean access to the Rapidstrike line down the road.

[loky1109]

Oh, and Aberration HD mean access to the Rapidstrike line down the road.

It's a question does it qualify for one Rapidstrike with its bites or for two?

[Bavarian itP]

I would really hate to see this project end in the mid on MMVI

[Debatra]

It's not abandoned. I've just been a little busier than usual.

+0 for this, next up is the Film of Night.

But not right now. Hopefully later today, maybe not until tomorrow.

[Mystic Muse]

It's not abandoned. I've just been a little busier than usual.

+0 for this, next up is the Film of Night.

But not right now. Hopefully later today, maybe not until tomorrow.

Yeah, no worries. I always look forward to updates, but attend to your mental health first.

[loky1109]

While we have some free time I have a question about the lich. What LA did we give him? In MM section of LA Assignment Archive he has +2, in LM section good lich has +1 and there are some discussion about his phylactery and its cost. It confused me.

[Beni-Kujaku]

While we have some free time I have a question about the lich. What LA did we give him? In MM section of LA Assignment Archive he has +2, in LM section good lich has +1 and there are some discussion about his phylactery and its cost. It confused me.

Good lich was supposed to be LA+1 compared to the regular lich, so a total of LA +3.

[Bavarian itP]

It's not abandoned. I've just been a little busier than usual.

+0 for this, next up is the Film of Night.

But not right now. Hopefully later today, maybe not until tomorrow.

Those little posts of mine are not intended to put pressure on you, they're just postponing the 45 days

there are some discussion about his phylactery and its cost. It confused me.

The MM1 lich template is +2, if the costs of the phylactery are handwaved. If not, if you have to pay the 120,000 gp, the lich drops to +0 or even -0, because that lack of money makes you a lot weaker.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Is there a rule that if a creature is fully inside an incorporeal one, they are affected by it incorporeal touch? Because I feel like there should be, but I'm not sure there is.

[Tzardok]

I mean, there's the rule that you can attack things that share your space. So it won't be automatic, but you can affect them that way.

[Inevitability]

Is there a rule that if a creature is fully inside an incorporeal one, they are affected by it incorporeal touch? Because I feel like there should be, but I'm not sure there is.

The issue is that creatures rarely fill any of their component spaces (except, like, gelatinous cubes). The rules allow corporeal creatures of any two sizes to share space in a variety of circumstances, which already implies that sharing space isn't physical overlap.

You can't reliably assume that a medium-sized ghost in the central space of a huge-sized giant is automatically touching, because there's enough space for the two of them not to touch. A minimum of effort (that is, an attack roll) remains necessary.

[danielxcutter]

For what it's worth, if the size difference is that great you probably won't have to roll very high on the touch attack roll.

[Metastachydium]

The issue is that creatures rarely fill any of their component spaces (except, like, gelatinous cubes).

Aren't there critters literally bigger than their own space?

[Inevitability]

Aren't there critters literally bigger than their own space?

Yeah, the rules are clear about that: Large creatures are 10x10x10 on the battle map but described as '8 to 16 feet in height or length' elsewhere. D&D size needs to be a proxy for mass and 'maximum dimension' at the same time, and the result is a somewhat conflicted representation of bulk.

But still, 'this 15-ft cube actually represents a 30-feet humanoid-shaped being' is hardly at odds with 'large parts of this 15-ft cube are empty'.

[Debatra]

Film of Night

Size & Type: Huge Ooze (Incorporeal)
Space/Reach: 10'x10'/10'
HD: 5, 11 (Gargantuan)
Speed: Fly 30' (I'm guessing Perfect, as per other Incorporeal creatures, but unlisted.)
Ability Scores: Str -, Dex +0, Con +10, Int -, Wis -10, Cha -10 - Net -10, two penalties
Natural Armor: NA (Cha to Deflection, minimum 1)
Natural Weapons: One Primary Incorporeal Touch (1d6 Dexterity and Constitution Drain)
Skill List: -
Body Shape: Amorphous
Speech (Languages): No
CR: 7
WotC LA: -
Our LA: +0

I've decided that I am indeed going to start adding the flavor text for all of these. This one in particular isn't all that amazing to me, but hey.

This creature is a field of pure darkness given awareness and hunger. It waits in lightless places to feed off the energy of nonplant living creatures.

Films of night appear only at night. During the day, they hide in the comforting darkness of underground. When they emerge, they float as a group in a circle at the periphery of each other's sensory range. When prey enters one ooze's range, that film of night moves toward it. The absence of a film of night alerts the others to move toward its last location.

Films of night are amorphous and can change their shape at will, but they usually travel in roughly cube-shaped blocks 10 feet on a side. Unlike most oozes, films of night travel in pairs, and sometimes in larger groups.

First off, can we avoid the debate we had with the Boneyard regarding its amorphous form? Just like the Boneyard before it, this has no mechanical effect. Maybe your DM will allow for things like manipulative digits, but you are not a proper shapeshifter. (Though being incorporeal does mitigate the issue somewhat.)

Anyway, in addition to the usual results of incorporeality and Ooze traits; the Film of Night has total concealment whiule in darkness. "Any illumination" reduces this to three-quarters concealment. ...So, RAW vs RAI, this technically means that full daylight still gives it 3/4 concealment. This is probably not intended.

Finally, any magical light source deals 1d6 damage to a Film of Night for each 10' of illumination it gives off. Hope the party has darkvision.

Aren't there critters literally bigger than their own space?

Funny you should mention.

[Tzardok]

3/4 concealment is IIRC not a thing anymore since 3.5. In this case it would propably be partial concealment. (So 20% miss chance instead of 50%).

[loky1109]

It's -0 LA.

[Thurbane]

Yeah, I don't feel the need for a detailed breakdown here: LA -0.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Is there a rule that if a creature is fully inside an incorporeal one, they are affected by it incorporeal touch? Because I feel like there should be, but I'm not sure there is.

I did a little research on this for a build using Dream Vestige, and I didn't find anything that lets them automatically hit creatures in their space. Wasn't an exhaustive search by any means, though. What I did find is that opponents have to succeed on a touch attack in order to enter the space of an incorporeal creature (which I believe is made as part of the movement).

[Tzardok]

What I did find is that opponents have to succeed on a touch attack in order to enter the space of an incorporeal creature (which I believe is made as part of the movement).

Never heard that one before. Do you have a quote for it?

[Beni-Kujaku]

I don't think this is worth LA-0. Incorporeality is a big deal, and actually having constitution will do a *lot* to improve the survivability of a creature who's already immune to most nonmagical things, to mind-affecting effects, and who stacks total concealment (no targetting, so none of the most threatening spells) on top of incorporeality miss chance. And it's offensively not bad at all either. Blindsight means it can surround itself with Deeper Darkness at all time without much drawback (just go halway through the ground to hide the Deeper Dark item if need be), 30ft flying is average and dealing 1d6 to both dexterity and constitution is a surefire way to take down almost any enemy in a few rounds, especially with Improved Natural Weapon. I can see the Film of Night becoming a fine Incarnum user. LA+0