Afterlife 3

[Xihirli]

Xihirli, who are the wolves? ("Batcathat" is not a valid answer.)

Batcathat. And not you and not Bladescape, I think Bladescape would have fallen on the sword there if there were two wolf wagons going. Which brings us to the remaining suspects being:
flat_footed, who I do not think is an active wolf for reasons involving my night power.
Xumtil, who is throwing suspicion at you despite you, in my opinion, being instrumental to killing a wolf just now. So... that's interesting, not necessarily wolfy? Like it's a bold choice if Xum is a wolf, you have to give him that.
JeenLeen, who would never betray or hurt me regardless of alignment.
Book Wombat, who desires only the delicious nutrients of our flesh regardless of alignment.
Batcathat, who along with Xum did not kill a wolf recently. So that brings Bat and Xum up to the top of my suspect list.
gac3- null
And me, who is, of course, the remaining wolf.

Between them all, I would be alright lynching either Bat or Xum tomorrow. But especially Batcathat. That one looks so shifty.

[AvatarVecna]

Apologies, slight mistake in the role reveal cuz I'm an idiot. I designed powers, got a bit into game, and then realized wolf Bane was also a day Bane - a thing I promised wouldn't exist. I corrected this in wolfchat with a strike through on that part of the power. But copy pasting it over to ITP didn't preserve that formatting, so role reveal makes it sound like wolves can daybane. They cannot. Nobody can. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused.

[Snowblaze]

I simultaneously love and hate Xihirli for that post.

Seriously, though: if my setup speculation is accurate she's almost certainly town (no, I won't be explaining that, at least until day phase) and even if I'm wrong I think it's mildly towny.

And since I won't have much posting time between now and the end of night, a legacy reads list:
Town: bladescape, JeenLeen
Townlean: flat_footed, Xihirli
Null: gac3, Book Wombat
Wolfish: Xumtiil

[Xihirli]

I simultaneously love and hate Xihirli for that post.

Snowblaze, welcome back to my signature. We've missed you.

[gac3]

Okay... It looks like I missed two days and a night. So I'll be trying to catch up today.

If it helps, I guess I'll claim and I have compelling evidence. My wife and I have up and decided to move states so I've only been only really checking to see if I got a PM with a role. Since I didn't I didn't really check if the game had started in the thread. I have now seen that that means I'm probably a vanillager. I'll start working through the log.

[JeenLeen]

Okay... It looks like I missed two days and a night. So I'll be trying to catch up today.

If it helps, I guess I'll claim and I have compelling evidence. My wife and I have up and decided to move states so I've only been only really checking to see if I got a PM with a role. Since I didn't I didn't really check if the game had started in the thread. I have now seen that that means I'm probably a vanillager. I'll start working through the log.

I believe gac3.
Also, seems a jerk move to use real life as an excuse to cover wolf. Good luck with moving stress, gac3. If you have time, I'd appreciate you posting your thoughts, either during Night or Day, as your free time allows.

So wolf candidates are Xumtiil, flat_footed, Xihirli, or Book Wombat.
I usually belive Xi when she claims wolf. If Xumtiil's town, I'd lean towards Xi and Book Wombat as wolves.

[bladescape]

I am actually wondering if Snow busses in that position.

I came out of that flip with the idea Snow couldn't be wolf, but honestly, could she?

Hmmmmmmmm

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Jeen is 100% town tho.

His reaction and "Tieing the wagons" post bleed town.

I will be shocked if he's red.

[gac3]

I believe gac3.
Also, seems a jerk move to use real life as an excuse to cover wolf. Good luck with moving stress, gac3. If you have time, I'd appreciate you posting your thoughts, either during Night or Day, as your free time allows.

So wolf candidates are Xumtiil, flat_footed, Xihirli, or Book Wombat.
I usually belive Xi when she claims wolf. If Xumtiil's town, I'd lean towards Xi and Book Wombat as wolves.

While I work to catch up, I see that neither you or bladescape we're on that list. Is there a reason for that? Besides not including yourself for self preservation reasons? (More people might be missing but I'm not sure who all is dead yet.)

[JeenLeen]

While I work to catch up, I see that neither you or bladescape we're on that list. Is there a reason for that? Besides not including yourself for self preservation reasons? (More people might be missing but I'm not sure who all is dead yet.)

I was listing those I was considering as wolf, and so I know I'm town. bladescape seems secure as Town. I also left Snowblaze off, as she seems mostly secure as Town.

Also, I realize I more believe Snowblaze's claim as Baner than before. The text about how the wolf void overwhelms banes makes the most sense if the Town has a baner. (Though it's possible the text was set up before player count established, and so it's possible there's no baner despite the implication. But I'd think baner would be one of the most likely Town powers, especially in a relatively low power game.)

[gac3]

Looks like snow was also left off of the list of potential wolves.

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Ninja'd....

[JeenLeen]

Looks like snow was also left off of the list of potential wolves.

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Ninja'd....

HA! And I was about to reply "Ninja'd" but you added it as I hit Reply, but before the Reply page loaded.

[gac3]

Okay. I haven't read everything but I have read large chunks and particularly most of Bat's stuff and in my head, this is what I see so far.

Jeen is town. That feels easy. Not only have their actions looked towny but Wolf!BCH was literally like "Jeen is trying to solve. That feels kinda Wolfy." Which is like... I'm convinced Jeen is town.

The rest in my mind are like this.

Blade-Snow: I'm leaning town on both of these. But for some reason in my head, if one is a wolf, I expect the other to be as well. That said, I'm feeling fairly good about them as a whole.


Book Wombat and Flat - Could very well be wolves but could also be town. Both classically have that "I'm here but maybe you'll forget I'm here because I'm not saying a lot" vibe. Book Wombat is just always like that. I'd have to check but it feels to me like flat is normally more active as a wolf. Either way I'm just like "what do you do with them", though I'm probably in this group too.


My top two wolves would be:

Xi... Probably a wolf? Maybe? They do that thing where they tell you they are and it feels stupid not to believe them when the time comes.

Xumtiil... Maybe not a wolf? Something about BCH focusing on them makes me conflicted. It kinda felt like distancing tbh. They didn't add many other valid points, mainly throwing shade at towny things. It feels like Bat might have been trying to unpaid themselves. There's always a chance that Bat arbitrarily picked a townie and Xum was unlucky. But...

[JeenLeen]

Wolf teams I could see as legit, barring some significant bussing:

• Batcathat, Xumtiil, flat_footed/BookWombat -- only team that makes sense to me if Xumtiil is a wolf
• Batcathat, Snowblaze, Xihirli -- I find this doubtful, but only team that makes sense if Snowblaze is a wolf. Though I guess one of the quiet players being wolf instead of Xihirli is possible
• Batcathat, Xihirli, flat_footed/BookWombat
• Batcathat, flat_footed/BookWombat

Of the quiet players... not sure how I feel about Book Wombat talking at Night and revealing they haven't ghosted, but not adding anything of value. I can see townie reasons and wolf reasons to do that... Eh, guess a neutral read all in all.
gac3 seems legit Town, but I admit that's only because I find it a "not cool, dude" move to lie about real life keeping you ghosted through D3.

Although I generally frown on nightchat, I think it's been oddly helpful this game. I do want us to be cautious about giving the wolves help in aiming their attack tonight, but perhaps I'm intentionally saying some things to disrupt said aim. Don't want to say too much on which of those I think is likely.

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If bladescape is a wolf... not sure who his buddies would be.

[Snowblaze]

gac's claim seems decently believable, guess they can join my "not interested in killing" pile. Which leaves me with only Xumtiil and Wombat... eh, I feel pretty decent about that, I guess.

[AvatarVecna]

End Of Night Two

The saboteurs were still hard at work smearing your good names: the ghostbusters found more evidence of conspiracy, but this time in the personal effects of somebody beyond suspicion: a jokester who liked making everybody laugh and have a good time.

Xihirli has died. They were the Helpful Poltergeist.

You are the Helpful Polterguist, a member of town. You win when there are no living threats to town. Death is so dreary, we need something to lighten things up around here! And sometimes that means making somebody the butt of the joke. Select one person. That person's powers do not work tonight. This takes precedent over banes.

Day Three Ends In ~48 Hours

[Snowblaze]

O...kay. That feels like a strange kill. Does vindicate my setup speculation though.

Said setup speculation also indicates we have a vig, though, and I could see Xihirli being a vig shot. That would also tell us the wolf kill was blocked. Considering the merits of everyone claiming atp, thoughts on whether we should do that are appreciated.

I think given Xihirli's last reads list it's not an unreasonable assumption she targeted Xumtiil. (Though confirmation bias.) So it could be her blocking a wolf or it could be wolves tried to kill the person I protected.

Anyway, Xumtiil, predictably.

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The downside of all claiming is that we still don't know what the bastard mechanic is. And I feel like it could be that wolves have some means of interfering with our roles, and that knowing their identities would help them do that.

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Though maybe that's just paranoia.

[Xumtiil]

Whelp, useless seer was useless. I tried to straddle town and wolf, but I made a dumb slip about having a power that made it unlikely I'd make it to day 3 and be of assistance. I can find out someone's alignment and win condition, not role.

I can confirm I'm a seer (the enlightened) and not a fool, since I scried Taffimai night 1. I tried JeenLeen tonight, but AV just confirmed that me not getting a PM was deliberate, so... Thanks, Xihirli? Can't really blame any of you.

Anyway, feel free to lynch me now so you can confirm, but better do the math assuming I'm town. Because I am.

[gac3]

I'm currently in for Book Wombat or Xumtiil. Either way right now. So I spread my vote in the hopes of not making one major wagon and no discussion.

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Well... I'm feeling better about my book vote after that one.

[Snowblaze]

Setup speculation suggests there exists a Seer. It also suggests said Seer is not Xumtiil.

I think I should probably just explain. If you check Xihirli's role, you'll notice the mechanical part is exactly identical to the void part of the Ghost Mafia. My role is the same for the baner part, right down to the initially being told I could protect from the lynch and then AV telling me otherwise.

That suggests that there are a Seer and a vig out there somewhere. It also suggests said Seer can determine a player's role as well as alignment, contrary to Xumtiil's claim.

I don't feel great about killing him, mainly because the last two Afterlives have both featured me mislynching the Seer and I'd quite like that trend to not continue. The thing is, the other possible Seers are also our least active players and neither posted at all day two so I'm not sure we get a counterclaim even if Xumtiil is a wolf.

Thoughts?

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Also I leave it up to the vig whether they want to claim, but I do think it would be pretty useful both to confirm/deny my theory about the same powers and to know whether Xihirli was the wolf kill or vig shot.

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Also also... what is the bastard mechanic? Because my theory makes sense but there's nothing that *bastard* about it.

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Vig claim would also shed some light on my current top guess on that.

Xumtiil, can you explain why you chose Taffimai and Jeen as scry targets?

[Xumtiil]

Interesting theory Snow, I wish I could agree, but I am the seer and I don't scry role. I'm afraid your streak will continue, but I get how lynching me might be the best option right now, if only to confirm.

Maybe it could be that the wolves lose the powers of those they kill, which means we might have another seer that can scry role, or alignment and role (no reason town couldn't double up).

Also, considering how powerful the wolves are, I'm hoping there's only one left. Me dead today, another town dead tonight and two wolves means it's... Lylo tomorrow.

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I thought Taffimai would be a relatively safe target. I was wrong, but it did help confirm I was not a fool, so that's something, I guess.

JeenLeen seemed unlikely to be killed, but still not beyond suspicion of wolf, and even just having a confirmed townie would be helpful.

I was still in the "either Bladescape or Snowblaze is wolf" headspace so scrying either of you was pointless since I expected one of you to die, and honestly I'm still not entirely over sussing both of you.

My theory also explains why wolves would want to keep the baner alive, since killing the baner means they lost their bane.

[Snowblaze]

If there's no reason town can't double up on Seers, could they double up on baners?

Also, it is highly unlikely we have two Seers. Both because that would be unbalanced in favour of town and because that leaves four town roles that match up with the wolf roles and then just... your role that doesn't fit into any of that.

[Xumtiil]

I was just trying to fit the "mafia roles and town roles match" theory with what I know my power does. You said yours is a one for one match with what the wolves have, so I don't expect a second baner in that case.

Like I said, I don't mind being lynched to confirm, just need you to be aware that it means lylo tomorrow, and better start thinking now about worlds where I'm town.

[Snowblaze]

I was just trying to fit the "mafia roles and town roles match" theory with what I know my power does. You said yours is a one for one match with what the wolves have, so I don't expect a second baner in that case.

Like I said, I don't mind being lynched to confirm, just need you to be aware that it means lylo tomorrow, and better start thinking now about worlds where I'm town.

I mean. The entire point of my posting that theory was to point out that your role and my theory contradict each other, so they're not going to be able to fit together.

And if you're town... well, firstly we have no way of knowing it'll be LyLo because there could only be one living wolf, and secondly... Jeen is still town, bladescape is probably still town but paranoia.

Xihirli blocked flat_footed night one, so we can reasonably assume he didn't kill Taffimai but I don't know that means too much given BCH was still around at that point. I have a mild townlean on him but that's not really based on much other than gut so I'll probably ISO him during night phase if you flip town.

I believe gac not getting a role PM and hence being a vanillager. I wouldn't stake the game on it, but it's good enough barring a case against them.

Which leaves Wombat, who I guess would be a suspect by default.

Wombat/flat, if there are two wolves who aren't you. Though if it came down to it I'd want to more seriously consider bladescape worlds.

How about you? One of me/bladescape, and then if there are two wolves, who's the second? And do you still stand by your case against me from night phase or do you think bladescape is the more likely wolf?

[Xumtiil]

A lot of my accusation flinging was mostly to make myself slightly lynchable so I wouldn't get night killed. I have 45 hours, I'm going to put them to use to make an exhaustive reads list for posterity. Not that you should give too much weight to it, I'm still new-ish and the only person I can mechanically clear died N1

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Also I'm assuming Xihirli voided me, but also could have been a wolf void or someone baning JeenLeen. Likely Xihirli though

[Snowblaze]

A lot of my accusation flinging was mostly to make myself slightly lynchable so I wouldn't get night killed. I have 45 hours, I'm going to put them to use to make an exhaustive reads list for posterity. Not that you should give too much weight to it, I'm still new-ish and the only person I can mechanically clear died N1

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Also I'm assuming Xihirli voided me, but also could have been a wolf void or someone baning JeenLeen. Likely Xihirli though

That will be greatly appreciated.

Part of me is wondering "does a wolf really take this route". The other part says that he's playing this way specifically to make us think that, and I've done similar as a wolf myself.

(Also I don't think you were ever dying as the main pusher of a counterwagon to a wolf while there were multiple claimed PRs.)

[bladescape]

Something about this game doesn't make sense in my head.

Unless we have a counterclaim to seer I'm gonna assume Xum is telling the truth for now.

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Not killing in me or Snow is questionable unless Snow is scum OR one wolf left and they couldn't.

Or vig shot.

If Vig shot Xi pls claim. At this point in the game mech knowledge is pretty important.

If you didn't shoot Xi feel free to keep quiet

[JeenLeen]

Some WIFOM about the nightkill, but nothing fruitful.
I don't think there's necessarily a vigilante, just because the other wolf powers are in play. Seems reasonable to have the wolves share the "good" powers with Town, plus a NK on the side. Wolves could have a better seer than Town, since they already know factions, but I like hte idea of catching a wolf by them not claiming identical power... just not sure if valid.

I'll wait to vote until tonight.

I thought Taffimai would be a relatively safe target. I was wrong, but it did help confirm I was not a fool, so that's something, I guess.

Not 100% proof. We've had games where the Fool's result was randomly generated. And I think AV ran one of those, but not sure.

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Eh... guess I'm wrong that i'll wait to vote.
Yo, flat_footed, anything to say?

[bladescape]

I was just trying to fit the "mafia roles and town roles match" theory with what I know my power does. You said yours is a one for one match with what the wolves have, so I don't expect a second baner in that case.

Like I said, I don't mind being lynched to confirm, just need you to be aware that it means lylo tomorrow, and better start thinking now about worlds where I'm town.

Wait.

How do you know it's lylo at 5?

That's a guarantee of 3 mafia including BCH?

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I actually dunno if I believe Jeen scry last night.

Taffi I can understand given last game but Jeen?

Where's Jeen fit into worldview?

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Wouldn't it be better in that stated position to try and clear a quieter player like Book or Gac or FF?

All are more useful than Jeen

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Hmmmm. That last bit is person process of using scries sooooooooo.

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Aka ignore the last rant lmao

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(and suddenly I realise the claim probably did help keep me alive)

I do crazy things for good town reasons

[Snowblaze]

Yeah, it's just. Objectively things make sense with Xumtiil as a wolf.

My gut disagrees and I don't know why.

I agree that wolves killing Xihirli implies only one left.

Actually maybe bladescape could be a wolf. If the plan was for him to die yesterday and for BCH to bus him, and they just didn't account for me coming in and messing everything up with my BCH case.

That makes sense, surface-level. And is a pretty good answer to "why am I still alive".

Or maybe it is just Xumtiil and I'm paranoid because it feels too easy.

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One thing I like about these slower games is that I don't have to go through 100+ posts to ISO someone.

Spoiler: ISO on Xumtiil

Show

As has already been pointed out, suggesting a Snow wagon but not voting for it is a little odd, especially when there are no other wagons to speak of. The vote count could be a way to seem solvy, but doesn't have to be (especially since there are no Xum town games to compare with).



Jumping onto the suggested wagon after it has gotten some traction isn't a great look, but not necessarily wolfy.



Hoping someone would join a Taff vote that's explicitly made for meta reasons rather than Taff being a wolf seems weird coming from town. I also get a kind of over-explainy vibe from this post, but I can't really put my finger on it, so probably nothing.



RPing is probably NAI. I could see a wolf doing it to blend in, since other people are doing it, but just doing it for fun (whether as a townie or a wolf) is probably a lot more likely.



Switching after Snow's claim makes sense for a townie. Picking Elenna without any motivation seems pretty odd, but then so does all the votes for Elenna except Snow's self-preservation one, so possibly not wolfy odd.



This reads like Xum is almost claiming not to be a Vanillager himself, which is... probably NAI, I guess? A wolf might like hinting at a useful power without actually claiming, but a townie might not want to out having a power role.



This could be a point against Xum and blade being wolfbuddies, but it could just as well be distancing, since it's not particularly damning.




This is definitely points against them being wolfbuddies. Not sure if it makes Xum look better or worse, since so much depends on blade's alignment.

Also, don't we already know it's a bastard game?

Sadly no smoking guns or whatever the innocence version of smoking guns are. Though while I still don't trust Xum, his vote on blade makes it unlikely that they're wolfbuddies, I think (my logic is mainly that it seems risky for a distancing move, but early to bus. Feel free to poke holes in it), so I'll probably hold off on voting either of them before ISOing blade and figuring out who I trust less.


Did you ever explain this? If not, could you?

Spoiler: ISO on bladescape

Show

NAI (with the same reservation about RPing as with Xum).



I'm still curious about the reasoning here.



Catchy, but I'm not sure what else to think of it.



No part of this seems to be about actually catching wolves, which isn't great.




Lots of conclusions, but barely any reasoning behind it. Then again, I think blade's love of being cryptic holds true whether wolf or townie.




Seems pretty relaxed about likely dying. Instinctively I feel like wolves tend to struggle against the lynch more than townies, but I'm nowhere near certain that's true in general, much less about blade specifically.




This feels like the key to blade's alignment, if correctly interpreted. Could be a genuine claim, could be a joke, could be a ploy to avoid the lynch, could be a ploy to save Snow from the wolves. The fact that blade has been just as vague about explaining it doesn't make it easier.

If it was intended to protect Snow from the wolves after outing herself, it seems strange that he wouldn't change his vote right away. I ended up not mattering, but it easily could have.






It is pretty funny that blade of all people is suspecting me over being too confident in townreading Snow.



More reads without explanations. But again, that's how blade usually plays regardless of alignment so probably NAI. Probably worth looking over again if blade flips wolf, to figure out his partners.



I could see blade trying to sacrifice himself like that, but doing it right then seems strange, since the wolves would likely assume Snow baned herself N1 anyway.



Heh.




I can't really follow blade's progress on Xum, from towny and "probably fine" to suspect.

Kind of a mixed bag. Some things wolfy, a few things towny, a lot of things I just don't know how to interpret. Still, between everything about the maybe-claim seeming so weird, blade's flip possibly giving some indications about Xum and possibly Snow (and presumably myself, from other people's perspective) and good old self-preservation, I'm going with bladescape.

I've had this bubbling around in my head for a while but I was confident enough in Xumtiil wolf/bladescape town to not think it was that big a deal:

BCH treats Xumtiil and bladescape very differently here, and I think that difference implies a difference in alignment. In other words, exactly one of them is a wolf.

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Though then again, doesn't wolf!bladescape just say "no, I think Xumtiil's lying" and take the free Seer mislynch? And isn't my mechanical case still reasonable?

Eh. Hopefully one of flat/BW will counterclaim and I won't have to worry about it.

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On third thoughts if bladescape is a wolf he's trying to pocket me, and faking the same kind of jitters that I was having would be a way of continuing to do that.

On fourth thoughts I now hate this game, because whichever way I end up going I have no faith in my ability to be right and I will be mad at myself for being wrong.

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Jeen, am I onto something or am I just being paranoid? Actually, I'm being paranoid regardless of my alignment but is my paranoia justified?

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I'm going to shut up, think, and wait to see what Xumtiil and bladescape do next and what other people think and whether there's a counterclaim.

[bladescape]

Sssh, just let me pocket you, it works great.